[Ericus Rex]

Hi folks!

In a couple of months I'll be in need of some relatively small monitors (6X8X10 or thereabouts) for my DIY flea-powered SET integrated:  ~2 watts.  I therefore need something in the 94+dB efficiency range.  This seems to be a very tough criteria for 5" monitors as nearly all I see are 86-88dB.  I'm familiar with Omega speakers but they are pushing it size-wise.  So my question is:

Who makes a good sounding smallish monitor in the 94+dB range for around $500+/-?

[srb]

Klipsch KB-15
7"W x 12.5"H x 8.1"D
94dB
8 Ohm
$249

A bit less wide and tall, but deeper and 92dB:

Klipsch RB-51 II
6.5"W x 11.4"H x 10.7"D
92dB
8 Ohm
$419

Steve

[poseidonsvoice]

IF you can handle a bigger size - these are not bad at all, but like you said, a difficult find:

Hsu HB-1 Mk2

SHO-10

You are going to have to give up something, either LF extension, box size or efficiency - just the laws of physics! And the price will start to skyrocket past your budget when you do-at least if you want high fidelity. Steve's options may fit your requirements though better than mine!


Best,
Anand.

[ltr317]

IF you can handle a bigger size - these are not bad at all, but like you said, a difficult find:

Hsu HB-1 Mk2

SHO-10

You are going to have to give up something, either LF extension, box size or efficiency - just the laws of physics! And the price will start to skyrocket past your budget when you do-at least if you want high fidelity. Steve's options may fit your requirements though better than mine!


Best,
Anand.

The Hsu HB-1 will not work with flea powered amps.  I owned a pair of the MK1 and used a 5 watt SET amp in my 12 x 13 size bedroom.  The sound was anemic at best.  They are only 91 db efficient and need at least 20 good watts even though Hsu's website claims a minimum of 10 watts.  It will work with that low wattage but you will get no dynamics.   I'm not familiar with the SHO-10 but they are more efficient.   

[JLM]

Look through the Low-Power and Single Driver circles.  And check out Bottle Head/Decware forums too.

As a DIYer you may end up building speakers.

As I'm sure you know, you're pushing the laws of physics very hard with this criteria.  You'll be sacrificing both frequency response (bass, even mid-bass) and maximum volume (sound pressure levels).  This extreme efficiency/size demand wouldn't produce a very satisfying for most audiophiles.  You can't fool mother nature, only make intelligent compromises.  And note that one of the first compromises to be made would be sound quality (I'd expect lots of colorations).

One option (bigger than you wanted) would be Hawthorne Audio open baffle drivers.  Amazing bass possible from a relatively tiny baffle, starting around $400/pair in DIY kit form.  96 dB/w/m and professional strength build quality, but as is the case with any dipole design, they need open space around them.  Hawthorne offers more expensive upgrade paths too.

[ramsubr]

Also look at tekton speakers. Slightly over your budget but will get the job done!

[Doublej]

Adding to what ltr317 said, the Hsu's are only 88dB efficient. The quoted measurement is in half space so you need to subtract 3dB to get the 'real' number. Home Theater magazine confirmed the 88dB in their review.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/hsu-research-hb-1-horn-speaker-and-vtf-3-mk3-subwoofer-measurements


Here's a list I found: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387083/list-of-reference-level-high-sensitivity-spl-speakers

[Ericus Rex]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

I know my criteria are tough, which is why I couldn't answer my own question and posted here for youz guys.

I should have mentioned that these speaks will be used in my office, they won't be for my main system.  The size constraint is due to them having to sit on my desk.  This also means that all listening will be near-field with my ears only 2-3 feet from the speakers.  I know I won't get any bass from cabinets so small, but if it really bothers me I could later add a sub under the desk.

Has anyone here heard the Klipsch, Tektons or SHOs mentioned?

Doublej, thanks for that link!  Lots of info there to process.

[Brad]

Since you'll be listening nearfield, the 2 watts may actually be more than you think.
Something with a simpler crossover perhaps?

The Klipsch idea might work.
Even the little Pioneers that have gotten good reviews may work - they are ~90db and a fairly easy load.

 A little above your price range, but look like a specific match for your requirements
http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/super3tdesktop.html are the Omega Super 3T Desktops.

NO power-sucking xover

[medium jim]

I know they blow over the targeted budget, but are really good:

http://blumensteinaudio.com/sale-items/caramelized-orcas-floor-stands



Maybe find a pair used?  IIRC the Orcas are around 93db

Or you can go with an industry standard, the Yamaha NS-10

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-NS-10M-PRO-MODEL-SPEAKERS-MONITORS-Matching-Pair-/140968398944?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item20d25f1060



Jim

[Quiet Earth]

Since you'll be listening nearfield, the 2 watts may actually be more than you think.

Totally agree! I put a pair of Omega 3s (fostex driver, 93dB 8ohm) on a desktop with a 5 watt el84 amp and it was way too loud. Even after adding baffle step and zobel to it.  You might consider putting the speakers behind you and firing at your back if you intend to do anything besides listen to music.

What amp are you building? Kit or self designed? Can't wait to hear about it. 

[Ericus Rex]

Thanks again all.  And BTW when I say around $500 I do mean around $500.  $600 is aok.

Brad, that's a good point about the wattage.  Maybe I am being a bit too concerned about the sensitivity of the speaker.  I think what I'll do is when I get the amp built I'll plug it up to my 91 dB monsters and see what happens.  That should give me a good idea of what I'll actually need.  I also may have access to some other single-driver hi-eff speakers locally to try out.

QE, I'm building a customized, hard-wired version of the Millett Jonokuchi:

http://www.pmillett.com/Jonokuchi.htm

But with a better looking case, more inputs, switchable 6v/13v filaments and with some reasonably-priced primo parts.  He sells the PCB for this on ebay but I'm going to build from the schematic.  More interesting to me that way.  Anybody can solder parts on a PCB....

Jim, too bad those Yamahas are in Japan.  Maybe I'll keep an eye out stateside.  There actually is a used pair of Orcas on Audio Asylum right now for $500.  I hadn't considered them due to their published sensitivity of 89dB.  But they do stress that's a conservative figure.  Will explore.

Keep em coming!

[Brad]

The other issue to be concerned with in nearfield is that some speakers need some room between you and them to "cohere" the sound.  Call it a focal distance I guess.
My Zu Soul Superflys for example, are best 8+ ft away.


Something that is designed for the desktop may give you a better result.
I'd even suggest the Mini-Maggies, but I KNOW they'll need more than 2wpc.

That's a neat looking amp project 

[mboxler]

Since you'll be listening nearfield, the 2 watts may actually be more than you think.
Even the little Pioneers that have gotten good reviews may work - they are ~90db and a fairly easy load.

I'm testing a Jonokuchi amp right now (using PCB...one of the "anybodys" you mentioned  ).  It's driving my $89.00 a pair Pioneer SP-BS22-LR's very well, nearfield.

Mike

[vortrex]

There actually is a used pair of Orcas on Audio Asylum right now for $500.  I hadn't considered them due to their published sensitivity of 89dB.  But they do stress that's a conservative figure.  Will explore.

FYI those aren't the current Orca version.  that guy actually bought my Orca's and is selling his older ones.

[rif]

I'll vote for the orcas as well. I'm using them in ht  primarily, but they sound great. You'd have to go used to get into your price range.

[poseidonsvoice]

Adding to what ltr317 said, the Hsu's are only 88dB efficient. The quoted measurement is in half space so you need to subtract 3dB to get the 'real' number. Home Theater magazine confirmed the 88dB in their review.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/hsu-research-hb-1-horn-speaker-and-vtf-3-mk3-subwoofer-measurements


Here's a list I found: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387083/list-of-reference-level-high-sensitivity-spl-speakers

Missed the 1/2 space spec silly me(!!), thanks for the correction. In any case trying to get real life dynamics from 2 watts is difficult, you have to compromise somewhere. My colleagues use a minimum of 100 dB in large rooms. I have used an 85 dB monitor with a 2A3 and that was in a 10X9 foot room! Basically near field and basically big headphone like performance! So yes it's doable but with compromises. There was no imaging and everything sounded BIG!

Thanks for correcting my oversight.

Anand.

[JLM]

With qualifiers 2 wpc can be enough, but the speaker options are limiting which is why after years of SET fascination I never drank the Koolaid.  High efficiency usually means lack of bass but plenty of colorations.

For desktop use, your efficiency criteria could easily be eased (at the loss of dynamics, which in an office - especially a shared office - environment would be good anyway).  Any number of 3 - 5 inch single driver designs would work well and help resolve coherence concerns between woofer/tweeter.  One not mentioned here so far is the Majestic Diamond from TBIsound.com.  (The small TBI integrated has gotten lots of buzz in the low powered circle.  TBI started out offering their tiny/amazing subwoofers.)

Another option (but would leave your amp at home) would be powered speakers (not cheapy computer speakers).  NuForce S3-BT ($300/pair, 4"x7", F3=55 Hz, bluetooth option) or Audioengine A2 ($200/pair, even smaller, F3=90 Hz, new version with built-in DAC coming soon projected at $250/pair) are respected consumer oriented options.  Then there is the whole world of truly active (one amp channel per driver) studio monitors.  The Yamaha shown above is frankly a vintage example and now quite laughable (it was designed to "help" engineers to ensure recordings sounded good in very ordinary consumer playback modes - cars/MP3 players).  While most studio monitors aren't tiny, the smaller ones are within your price range.  But be warned, studio monitors intend to be extremely accurate so you will lose the "comfortable - warm, lush - sound" most consumer audio strives for and can help make poor recordings enjoyable.  Check out this example that offers high content value, fits your budget, and has tweeter mounted inside woofer: 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec12/articles/equator-d5.htm