[nickd]

I think I read the difference was in the crossover (upgraded in the reference but the parts count is low) and cabinet material. I imagine the margin was a bit thin on the Nano and the reference sounds a bit better. Easier to get a substantial price increase on a giant killer if you hot rod them a bit and change the name.

It is still a business, everyone has bills to pay. Even if Tim loves his work, he still has to eat. I do think that some in the industry are raising prices at the wrong time. A bigger margin doesn't always cure slow sales. Sometimes advertising and production streamlining are a better answer to higher revenue.

I think the quote goes something like this. " build for the few, live with the masses. Build for the masses, live with the few."

[jackman]

Hi Nikd,

I don't think anyone is being overly critical.  It's just that there is a lot of competition at the $12K range.  These speakers look pretty good but I still question the lack of technical measurements on the website.  It has lots of fluff but very little actual data or description of the type of crossover slopes he employs, etc.  Look at Geddes', Sigfried Linkwitz, Phil Bamberg's or John K's (music and design) websites and see what I mean.  These guys have detailed descriptions of their designs, white papers, written by engineers, not marketing guys, with actual measurements and technical analysis. 

Not saying anything about the Shelby and Kroll design but I'd like to see more than "High end European parts" to describe the crossover. 

Cheers,

Jack

[nickd]

Hi Jack,

I also hope no one thinks this thread is bashing. Just a discussion on merits, price, value and sound quality. To be honest. I like the drivers and design. the marketing is OK too. Measurements are important, but I have owned lots of gear that measured amazing and left me wanting.

This little kit pushes a lot of my "like" buttons. I am going to try to talk a local dealer into picking up the line so I can get a listen (yes I'm thinking about taking the plunge). BTW, I read somewhere that the crossover was "First Order" electrical. I'm OK with shallow slopes if they drivers can hang out of their passband. I listen at lower levels than I did when I was younger

I would agree at 12K the competition gets serious. The sat sub idea just has fond memories for me. Anyone remember the "Image" series from API back in the 80's?  That 5" woofer and 3/4" tweeter would sing if you pumped some serious power into them.

But I think they were about 600 bucks in 1987. that would make them about 2 grand today. A far cry from 9k. Just sayin.

[ken]

Tim did say that the Nano Monitors which are rated at 6 ohms played completely flat with no phase angles to 10k and then drop to 4 ohms, I would imagine the RM are similar but I do agree that some FR charts / plots would be useful

[tkroll]

I have been admitted to the group "Industry Participant" so I can now post.
Administrator/Facilitator: I have read all of the guidelines and I will try not to cross the line from technical to promotion.
I will soon be replying to some of the posts to help provide more detail .

[tkroll]

Does anybody believe the bass specs of +\- 1.5 db 20 to 500hz? When I read about perfect specs for bass indoors I feel that I can't trust the reviewer at all. The article is so salesy. Let's get real.

Here is something to consider. Bruce had the rooms in his studio designed by a highly respected, world renowned studio room designer. He spent pretty considerable $$$ on the construction materials and isolation/vibration dampening materials. He then had his rooms tuned by the most respected professional room tuner in the world. I was careful about measuring before publishing specs, but I don’t have a room like Bruce’s. I have not used the software Bruce uses, but I can tell you that Earthworks microphones are the world standard for measuring (and some forms of recording). So yes, the specs he measured were impressive. His room and measurement precision is impressive. Of course it would make sense that few would get the same measurements. The difference between the average (is there an average room?) room and Bruce’s is probably a lot more than the difference megabuck equipment makes. But isn’t it nice knowing that the speakers are capable of that kind of technical performance? Please note: Everything I quoted about Bruce’s room, software & mic can easily be found in the public domain (don’t want to unintentionally cause a problem w/ the moderator by mentioning other websites).

[tkroll]

Text omits FR pre vs. post EQ.  Also, t'would tell an interesting tale to compare FR at several points several feet from the sweet spot, pre vs. post EQ.

I can still appreciate the best mono poles but would never chose such radiation pattern. 

$250k Lamm tube mono blocks with outboard PS powering Wilson's $70k Alexandria sounded darn good (overall) at 2012 CES.  Still cursed with that strange quality common to all single column full range speakers where the bass image stays in close proximity to the enclosure, never fully detaching from it.  I prefer bass image fully detached from the box, at different stage location depending on software.     

Bruce did not use any EQ on the speaker set up. I am OK with any form of EQ as a tough room can make all ultra high end speakers sound bad. In a brief conversation over the phone, I asked Bruce if he used any EQ on the room. He told me no. He didn’t believe in it (with rooms like he has, that makes sense). He also didn’t believe in EQing loudspeakers. His comment was if the loudspeakers are bad enough to need EQ, then they should be redesigned. What he told me was very close to a comment he made on another forum about a month before I sent him our loudspeakers.

[Letitroll98]

I have been admitted to the group "Industry Participant" so I can now post.
Administrator/Facilitator: I have read all of the guidelines and I will try not to cross the line from technical to promotion.
I will soon be replying to some of the posts to help provide more detail .

Welcome tkroll, I wish everyone read the guidelines before posting.      Sorry it took so long to approve the posts, my internet decided to crash last night.  You should be able to post without any approval from now on.

[tkroll]

Welcome tkroll, I wish everyone read the guidelines before posting.      Sorry it took so long to approve the posts, my internet decided to crash last night.  You should be able to post without any approval from now on.

Thanks. Greatly appreciated.

[Letitroll98]

Oh, and you are enthusiastically encouraged to participate in both other threads on this circle and other circles on the forum.  You get a lot more freedom in posting your thoughts and opinions when they're not threads that include Shelby + Kroll as the focus.

[medium jim]

Bruce did not use any EQ on the speaker set up. I am OK with any form of EQ as a tough room can make all ultra high end speakers sound bad. In a brief conversation over the phone, I asked Bruce if he used any EQ on the room. He told me no. He didn’t believe in it (with rooms like he has, that makes sense). He also didn’t believe in EQing loudspeakers. His comment was if the loudspeakers are bad enough to need EQ, then they should be redesigned. What he told me was very close to a comment he made on another forum about a month before I sent him our loudspeakers.

Man do I ever agree with that about eq'ing! 

Welcome to the AC!

Jim

[rodge827]

Tim,

Welcome to AC. 
Glad to see you here. 

Chris