[zybar]

How much weight do you put on  customer or end-user reviews, comments, etc...?  Does it influence what you would buy or audition?

I ask because over the last 6 months I have posted reviews or comments on lots of gear.  Some of it has been positive and some of it has been negative.  

On one of the negative reviews, the vendor got very upset and personally contacted me and attacked me verbally in an unprofessional manner at home and my work place.

I was shocked at the perceived weight my review or comments carried with the vendor.  Although my review wasn't very positive, it was obvious that time was taken to carefully audition the product and it was comapred/contrasted to a few competitors.

Anyway...just curious as to what others think.

George

[byteme]

It's kind of a crapshoot.  Sometimes they are very helpful if, like yours, they take the time to say more than "IT ROCKS!" or some other useless drivel.  If they can describe a certain sound or compare to other products then I think that helps usefulness too.  Sometimes just the trends are helpful too.  If something has 100 audioreview.com reviews and they are all good, well, that's pretty clear.  But reading them can be important too, because if some piece has 4 reviews and averages 4 stars becuase it costs "only" $1000 and "it can't be a 5 star amp when compared to a $9000 amp" well, you have to take that as intended.  It's a great piece for the price.

I also find it useful if someone lists their gear and what else they've had along the line.

I'm surprised about the contact from the vendor though - would be very interesting to find out who that was!

[MaxCast]

This is a big one because there is so much involved.

I use reviews "professional" and user to narrow the field of components I am interested in.

I find it most useful when reviews compare the component to other gear, they list other gear used, listening room description, and what type of sound they prefer.

As far as less than stellar reveiws.  It is always best to use the synergy word for reasons why you did not like the gear, while still stating where the component fell short.  And manufacturers that attack is very unprofessional.  I almost want to say they should be called out.  Look around here and you can see how manufacturers react to reviews or when their product gets replaced by another.  The quiet ones that don't get nasty still have respect and class, IMO.  

In the end, don't let it bother you.  Being consistantly honest goes a long way and is much appreciated by the members of this forum.

[Carlman]

Reviews here have a good bit of weight to me if I know the person, their tastes, etc... The people on AC are mostly intelligent, mature folks.  So, I take their review as seriously as most pro reviews.

Audioreview.com is meaningless to me.  Too many people, free access and no one questions the reviews...

6moons and TNT seem to be churning out reviews that have merit.  However, I'd still rather hear from someone I know or even virtually know.  

However, all the reviews in the world wouldn't sway me to purchase something 2% as much as a demo.  I'd like to hear a couple of cd players right now... I just got a demo of a player I've already heard but has been improved... I've heard opinions on it from people but, I won't know anything until I hear it again.  

The likelihood of me buying from a review alone for gear around 1,k or more, is nil.  For something under $500, maybe 10%.  

I'd tell the dude shove it in his ear.... be careful 'calling out' these people in a way that might get you in trouble somehow.

-C

[Lost81]

On one of the negative reviews, the vendor got very upset and personally contacted me and attacked me verbally in an unprofessional manner at home and my work place.

Contact an attorney and file multiple lawsuits for harassment at home and at work. Meanwhile, contact your company's lawyer to begin a simultaneous lawsuit for harassment at work as well. Get both lawyers to obtain the phone records (at your company, as well as your home) as evidence of the abusive calls. Also, begin the process of filing for a restraining order on the abuser. (Not that he / she is likely to violate it, but it will show up on his record for a long, long time).

Bottom line: You should never cave in to intimidation.


-Lost81

[JoshK]

I am pretty sure I know who you are talking about, and that is really low class.  Just because you write a review for a product doesn't mean the review should be a rave review, in fact those are often the least useful reviews.  

Like many others hear, I like to read reviews from people who's opinions and preferences I think I sort of figured out relative to my own.  I am sure their are lurkers here that just read the reviews and then go out and purchase but I would think they have to be the minority.  

I think if a review is to be negative it should be very clear why.  In your case George, I think you were clear and it wasn't bashing or damning, it seemed honest and was largely a part of the greater whole of your system.  In the end, how your review is taken and interpreted is hard to control so you just try to make it clear what precisely you liked or didn't like and why and leave the rest to reader.

[rosconey]

I AM A GOD-

 just take a gander over at aa in the digital asylum-for over 6 months MY DISCOVERY -the toshiba 3950 has been all the rage. yes  i can also hear the sound of patting my self on the back. so if any of you want a guaranteed good audio product on the cheap just tell me and i will answer for a small finders fee.

every person has there- own law of diminishing returns- its that plain and simple. it doesnt always apply to income either

[_scotty_]

I don't give reviews or comments expressed here undue emphasis as being more accurate or truthful. The information gleaned here always has to be viewed in it's relationship to other more direct information sources
as well as personal experience. As always YMMV, Scotty

[nathanm]

Contact an attorney and file multiple lawsuits...

Uh, how about saying "Geez, what an asshole that guy is!" and forget about it?  

[Lost81]

Contact an attorney and file multiple lawsuits...

Uh, how about saying "Geez, what an asshole that guy is!" and forget about it?  

The other guy could have let it go, but he didn't.
The ball was in his court, and he chose to be an a** about it.

There is a line between typing a flame mail and harassing phone calls at work/home. It can be argued as criminal intimidation, or at the very least, harassment.


-Lost81

[markC]

I agree with Nathan. Seems like some people will sue over a bent tricycle wheel. Just shake your head and forget about him and his electronics.

[DVV]

The problem of reviewing in general (my hat off to exceptions) is that one can hardly ever find a negative review. By "negative", I mean clearly told why something has not lived up to its expectations, and/or why it simply isn't worth the money asked for it (poor cost/benefit ratio).

The odd thing, to me at least, is that it's the reviewers who seem to promote this "let's-stay-in-everybody's-good-books" attitude, by means of which they strongly erode their own credibility.

Take it from a guy who has been professionally reviewing PCs and components for 19 years. I got out because the game got far too dirty, and I can convince people I'm clean in a filthy game just so long. But while I was at it, I had no problems saying product X was best avoided altogether, because: 1) ..., 2)....., 3)....., etc. Or that a product wasn't bad, but was simply too expensive.

That got me to be a VERY respected source of informatioon, and since this was TV, it sure got me through some long lines fast. But that was all the benefit I had because that was all I would accept; to me, staying credible was more important than adding some fat to the home budget for awhile, until the first time I got caught.

I think magazines in particular tend to think of their readers as near idiots when every month the have the ultimate system on review, or have just heard the best ever. I believe readers are really craving for some honest and balanced reviews, not rave bull.

But just so you guys don't think it's a local thing, the same is true of British, German and Italian mags I get to read. Especially regarding their own home grown stuff, which makes it all the worse.

And that guy harassing the reviewer is really a piece of work - no wonder he got the negative review, we are a single personality, so a dummy like that is not at all likely to make anything better than himself.

Cheers,
DVV

[cjr888]

How much weight do you put on  customer or end-user reviews, comments, etc...?  Does it influence what you would buy or audition?

On one of the negative reviews, the vendor got very upset and personally contacted me and attacked me verbally in an unprofessional manner at home and my work place.

I was shocked at the perceived weight my review or co ...

I'm not familiar with your negative review or the gear at hand, but I can both understand the perceived weight any review and find the vendor getting ticked off understandable, but him attacking you is well beyond unprofessional, its plain rediculous.  Regardless of how unhappy they are with comments, that's their personal issue to deal with, unless the comments were untruthful or with valid issue.

As to your original question, I place a ton of weight on reviews, whether by "professional" reviewers or individuals, and yes, it sometimes does determine what I purchase.

I purchase new and used, primarily used, and 100% online.  Dealers provide excellent services, but knowing that I can buy something at 40-75% off, and knowing that I am looking for both the best sound for me, but also to satisfy curiosity in the process, I do quite a bit of buying and selling, just to know.  I'm the guy willing to try something 3 people in the world have heard, or is a prototype, or similar situations if I get enough of a read to think that it will be that good.

Some people have dealers who are excellent simply from a audition/sales perspective (outside of services offered).  As much as I'd like to hear rediculously expensive and neat equipment, I won't waste a dealer's time knowing that I'm not buying anything new from them.  Because of this, purchases are based on other's opinions, my own assumptions and a lot of chances.  The only 'dealer' I would consider in regard to service would be in regard to services -- if I needed construction, if I was looking for acoustic consultation outside my knowledge or any area truly outside of my scope.

Those who are blind end up both relying on and enhancing other senses for the lack of one.  My situation is similar.  Certain reviews and reviewers talk to you and speak to a language that makes sense to you, spoken in your language, and you're both on the same page.  Their description of a component may ring true with your own impression, and thus comparison to other products have greater weight.  Eventually you find you way, and tune out the noise to the point that you can almost construct virtual systems that you assume would be an excellent combination without actually hearing them from both a technical and a literally viewpoint.  You'd be surprised how well it actually works if you're willing to dig deep and read literally everything that's available to you.

To be a startup or a small player in this business is akin to opening a small restaurant in a small town.  The ratio of establishments that survive to those that die is rediculous.  Reviews and word of mouth are everything.  One bad situation (food poisoning or an amplifier blowing up) and you're out of business.  One bad review prior to establishing a customer base that will come back for more or defend your credibility and you're out of business.  If you don't provide the best of the best, and you don't keep coming out with something new and in a proper fashion, you're out of business.

They say the restaurant business has the highest rate of failure in the first year over any other business type.  I'd have to disagree, they apparently didn't survey the high end audio market.

So yes, negative remarks regarding a product in a small, tight market for a small business, especially a new one can spell certain death, and its understandable that a manufacturer would want to avoid such things.

At the same time, getting nasty and malicious at the sight of such things doesn't fly in any business, in any business type, big or small, and should not be tolerated, and a review of such actions would have even more weight than the initial hardware review.

Customers should be careful with their comments, showing honesty, comparison, and be well thought out, and vendors and manufacturers should do the same.

Unfortunately this isn't always the case -- sometimes on one side, sometimes on the other, and sometimes on both.

If you'd be willing to elaborate on the review and issue, even if its via PM, my curiosity has been peaked and I've been in awkward situations previously regarding whether or not I review a component...or a manufacturer.

[The Killer Piglet]

Uh, how about saying "Geez, what an asshole that guy is!" and forget about it?

Better still: post the name of the company involved.

That's one of my pet peeves. Mfg's who feel the need to respond to reviews. Either to discredit a negative review or to give thanks for a positive one.

I feel they should only post if factual errors are made ("the driver is made from chicken" or something like that).

One thing to keep an eye for is a "flood" of positive reviews. As well as reviews from a few users. Reviewing the same brand over and over and over.

Rapidly loses credibility:
Weakness: none

Instantly loses all credibility::
this is the BEST xxx there is!

Keeping all that in mind, I generally place more trust on user reviews than "pro" reviews. Most "pro" reviews are a mix between ad-copy and dribble. If you read posts form many pro reviewers, you quickly see that they are (not all, but many) pompous air heads. I think DVV summed up the slippery slope of hype trodden magazine reviewers pretty well.

I'm surprised to see people look forward to "Pepe Tolete's upcoming review of Mega Tech's Super Doohickey in PositiveAdphile6Loons magazine". Well, you pretty much know what they are going to say.

With user reviews, if you have been around he forums for a while you get to build an image of the poster. One of the post important things is: what does this person like. You can then make some sort of a guess as to how close their taste may be to yours.

Another sad fact is that audio is really a "good ol' boys" club, with those "in the club" jumping in to defend their fellow club members and to discredit critics. This brings forth another point. Many audio sites are beholden to their sponsors and advertisers, and will take active steps to squelch criticism while protecting all sorts of ludicrous claims by these "$acred Piñatas" from critical questioning.

I discover that most of my audio discussions now take place through emails, free of censors, attacking lap dogs, or delicate egos.

KP

[DVV]

There is one objectovely slippery side to audio reviewing, and that is the simple fact that each and every one of us hears things differently. Obviously, what may sound poor to me, may sound just fine to somebody else.

If you care to leaf through audio magazines, you will find that this I would think most obvious fact is totally neglected - it has, quite simply, been strangled in the dark long ago. What the mag says is holy gospel, period.

I'm just sorting out my notes for a review of five Neotech cables. I find that the lowest model in the line is a fair cable, with no obvious advantages or faults. Would I buy it? No, because I want more from a cable and I'm willing to spend more. Is it a bad cable then? No, it's a very reasonable entry level cable, offering a clear benefit over the junk they supply with products, and it has a good price/performance ratio. So that's what I'll say, because I see it that way. $45 retail for a reasonable cable terminated with above average RCA plugs is a fair deal.

Their top model in this group (and second best overall), costing $225, and offering way above average quality RCA plugs connecting a monocrystal pure silver cable with double shielding is something to enthuse about. This is the original version of a cable which is repackaged and rebadged and sold for 3.5+ TIMES the price by others. So when you have: a) an objectively very good cable, at 2) a very reasonable price, but 3) sans the famous brand name, which sounds very, very good, what else can you do but be enthusiastic?

But with a word of caution - for half the price of the silver cable, you can also buy their OFC copper version of monocrystal, which sounds very close to the pure silver version. So, readers, please audition before buying.

There is ALWAYS a way to say what needs to be said, so long as you want to say it.

Cheers,
DVV

[Dan Driscoll]

Contact an attorney and file multiple lawsuits...

Uh, how about saying "Geez, what an asshole that guy is!" and forget about it?  

The other guy could have let it go, but he didn't.
The ball was in his court, and he chose to be an a** about it.

There is a line between typing a flame mail and harassing phone calls at work/home. It can be argued as criminal intimidation, or at the very least, harassment.


-Lost81

Yes, it "can be" argued that way, but should it? There are enough lawsuits clogging the court system already, something this petty doesn't need to be added to that backlog.

IMO the best thing to do is publicly name the company and more importantly, the individual. I believe that would be far more effective than some long, drawn out court case and it has the added advantage of being immediately effective.