[Gopher]

Welp, I gave the Macmini a try, but even with software optimizations, Pure Music, a Voodoo IEC adapter connected a Triode Wire Lab 10+, and BigRedMachine's AP2, I just preferred my Bolder Touch w/ PSU...   Maybe the new owner will have better luck then I.

It seems the majority of hobbyists seem to be gravitating towards computer based listening solutions and I've gotta ask:  what am I missing?  The Squeezebox plays everything and performs like a champ with Wayne's reasonable mod package.  To get comparable sound from a Macmini via spdiff seems like it would at least DOUBLE the investment and it seems like it's used strictly for music.

Its my understanding that Wayne is still doing a few of these mods until his new career picks up.  Those of you on the fence may want to jump in before he's gone.

[jarcher]

What is a BigRedMachine AP2?  Could find nothing on google.

Did you compare the SBT & MM both w/ coax digital?  If you did the MM w/ toslink ,its not likely to sound very good in my experience, and may not be a fair comparison.

Power supply quality seems to make a big difference w/ digital, so the SBT w/ the upgraded power supply is likely to be a significant improvement. Don't know what your total investment on the Bolder Touch w/ PSU was, but modding mac mini's can get pricey between converting them to DC, power filters, external power supplies, cabling, etc......though some people use the older DC mac mini's (which are worth under $250) that can benefit from third party PSU w/ out further modifying the mini itself. 

[earwaxxer]

+1 - I'm sticking with wired ethernet as well via the Transporter. Updated to a Gungnir DAC though.

[Gopher]

Bigredmachine is a fellow ACer who was generous enough to loan me his Audiophilio2 (AP2)for a month while his system was down. 

I use the Coax out of my SBT only and I used the coax out of the audiophilo2.  For the SBT I used my Wywires LTE SPD digital cable and for the AP2 I connected my macmini via Wywires LTESPD USB and then from the AP2 to dac the same Wywires LTESPD digital cable.   There was no inferior wire in the mix invalidating the comparison.

You are correct the Macmini had a stock power supply, but was using a nice TWL power cable and was plugged into a Pi Audio Uberbuss...  I realize an outboard power supply would likely improve things to another magnitude, but if in stock form it couldn't touch the squeezebox modded, I didn't see a point to mod it and increase the total investment to what?  Maybe tie the SB or just edge it out for double the money?  If I were using it for an HTPC maybe, but it would have been strictly music.

FWIW, I was using a Metrum Octave DAC for the comparo.

[woodsyi]

I got you beat.    I am still running Bolder modded SB2 in the office.  Wife loves it playing internet radio and occasionally taps into NAS for stored music.  I got it set up to a Sophia EL34 integrated driving a pair of Bose (part of her dowery) that she is sentimentally attached to.  Sounds pretty darned good but it's really never played loud. 

[jarcher]

Bigredmachine is a fellow ACer who was generous enough to loan me his Audiophilio2 (AP2)for a month while his system was down. 

I use the Coax out of my SBT only and I used the coax out of the audiophilo2.  For the SBT I used my Wywires LTE SPD digital cable and for the AP2 I connected my macmini via Wywires LTESPD USB and then from the AP2 to dac the same Wywires LTESPD digital cable.   There was no inferior wire in the mix invalidating the comparison.

You are correct the Macmini had a stock power supply, but was using a nice TWL power cable and was plugged into a Pi Audio Uberbuss...  I realize an outboard power supply would likely improve things to another magnitude, but if in stock form it couldn't touch the squeezebox modded, I didn't see a point to mod it and increase the total investment to what?  Maybe tie the SB or just edge it out for double the money?  If I were using it for an HTPC maybe, but it would have been strictly music.

FWIW, I was using a Metrum Octave DAC for the comparo.

Would agree that modded SB's are often the best value in digital transports (?) / streamers : especially bought used here on AC trader.  I have a modded SB duet receiver w/ psu that I bought that way for only $200.  They also have the virtue of simplicity.

As you previously said : the benefit of going for a mac mini based system would be either if you already own one, or you want to do more than just audio (video / etc). 

From what I've been able to see, it takes at least between $650 - $1K to do a modded mac mini, depending on whether you buy an older DC Mac Mini w/ PSU, or go for a newer used Mac Mini & have it modded from AC to DC & then w/ external PSU. That pricing includes buying a used mac mini.

I'm not sure what the comparable investment is w/ a SB + Bolder mods & PSU.  I do note that a used one is available here for $875. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=111610.msg1155059;topicseen#new

I have a feeling that a bolder unit w/psu would top a similarly priced mac mini w/ PSU option, but a shoot out would be the only way to know.  If someone's done that, Id be interested to hear about it.  I'm still trying to decide how far to go w/ mods for my mac mini.

[Gopher]

I agree with most everything you said, jarcher except your price range for a modified macmini...

I just sold a used Macmini for $620 without SSD, ram upgrades or an outboard PSU.  I'd be VERY impressed if one could pack in those upgrades along with a PSU comparable to what Wayne built for my Touch for under a grand!

[jarcher]

I'm not sure that it's 100% comparable to the Bolder modded SB, but here is my pricing logic on mac minis:

Used 2009 Mac Mini : approx $350 on ebay
Used 2010 Mac Mini : approx $450 on ebay
New 2012 Mac Mini : from $600

Power Supply : at least $300 - as Welborne Labs PSU for SB's go for $225, I'm assuming that a custom one could be done for $300 or less. Otherwise there's the Paul Hynes ones being sold via AC at $550.

So a 2009 Mac Mini w/ PSU : $650 and w/ a PH PSU, $900. 

For a 2010 & 2012, add $100 - $250 respectively. These are AC model, so an AC to DC conversion would have to be added.  PH said he do it for $130 w/ a PSU purchase & Mojo Audio does it for $200. 

So a 2010 Mac Mini w/ AC to DC mod w/ PSU all from PH: $1,170 (added $40 for Mac to PSU umblical).
From Mojo Audio w/ Welborne Labs PSU : $950 (seems they repurpose the mac power cord)

For a 2012 Mac Mini, add $150 to the above (i.e. $1,050 - $1,320)

Of course there will be shipping & taxes not calculated to the above, but it gives you a ball park estimate.

So again - an estimate of between $650 - $1,320 depending on how new you want to go w/ the Mac Mini. Probably need to add to that a decent USB to Coax Digital converter & possibly decent USB cable, so I'd say another $250 or so there (e.g. HiFace2, Vlink, etc + up to $50 for the USB cable).

That brings the grand total to : $900 - $1,570.

No internal mods (power filters etc). 

Would the above be better than a Bolder modded SB +PSU......don't really know. I'm not sure what all the Bolder mods are to the SB units.  I'm going to take a guess that w/ out further internal mods to the Mac Mini, the Bolder modded SB + PSU could still sound better.

Any of the above seems like a very good alternative to a higher end CD player though.....

[Big Red Machine]

I got you beat.    I am still running Bolder modded SB2 in the office.  Wife loves it playing internet radio and occasionally taps into NAS for stored music.  I got it set up to a Sophia EL34 integrated driving a pair of Bose (part of her dowery) that she is sentimentally attached to.  Sounds pretty darned good but it's really never played loud.

My Touch and SB3 are both stock, but I think I'm going to keep them just to be able to have that background music, etc. capability.  I am inclined to sell my Bolder Power Supply with Bybee rails.  There's close to $1100 in this power supply.  But if I move the SB and Touch to background duty then I don't need such a fancy power supply.  I will go with a Salk Streamer and a USB dac once I get back to work.

[HAL]

BRM,
Does the Boulder power supply run a SB Touch via the normal power connector? 

[Big Red Machine]

BRM,
Does the Boulder power supply run a SB Touch via the normal power connector?

Yes. I was using it on the Touch.

[Syrah]

Sorry for jumping in late.  I've been wondering how my modded Touch might compare to something like the CAPS or the MacMini.  Interesting.

Has anyone compared different computer servers running the Touch?  I use the full Soundcheck mods, but I'm just using a basic laptop.  I wonder if a quieter computer would improve the sound of the Touch.  It would certainly improve the background noise from my listening position.

[Gopher]

I don't know if I was imagining it, but I felt like when I was using my macmini as a Logitech Media Server, things might have sounded a touch better--but I may have just been less fustrated as faad.exe wasn't constantly crashing.

Its funny, I originally wanted out of my Bolder Squeezebox, but after experimenting with the Macmini I've decided its my keeper.  My power supply is currently with Wayne working up even further modifications and upgrades.  I'm hoping it will be pretty over the top and my last transport for a long time when he's done.

[Syrah]

It's a shame that Logitech are discontinuing it!  I'm on the hunt for a ready made computer that is similar to the CAPS2, or maybe an enterprising computer guy who can build it for me.

[JoshK]

For me, part of why I like the SB + vortexbox appliance solution was not having to deal with a computer per-se.  I've had nothing but computer problems for years at home and I am on them all day at work.   I just want to listen to music.

I really hope the space stays open/easy long enough or someone comes out with a solution to replace the SB.   Vortex is working on a player to replace the SB from what I read.

[lcrim]

I have never gone the I- thing route, still using Squeeze Box Touch in both systems.  Since the introduction of the Enhanced Digital Output mod by Triode, the players are capable of 24/192 playback but also are improved in sound quality in lower resolutions.  With improved linear power supplies and running on wired ethernet and low cost USB DACs, the sound quality is very nice.  Loading the free software called Squeeze Play onto my laptops, they become functional Squeeze Boxen as well.  Plugging an AudioEngine D1 DAC/HP amp into the laptop makes it into a pretty formidable HP player as well.  The server side of this software, now called Logitech Media Server is still the best music server extant,
For the future, Android 4.2 devices, w/ a download can act as Squeeze box players outputting through USB.  Presently the software is only compliant to 16/44.1 but that will improve when there is a market.  I still believe that streaming over ethernet (or WiFi) is superior and the server can still be placed anywhere not necessarily in the stereo rack.
Larry

[JoshK]

Since the introduction of the Enhanced Digital Output mod by Triode, the players are capable of 24/192 playback but also are improved in sound quality in lower resolutions. 

Do you mind expounding on that?   What exactly are such mods?

[golfugh]

Josh

See this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105371.0

Also this, http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput

Mark

Works like a champ up to 24/192 on USB and Coax outs

[JoshK]

Thanks for the info!   My DAC  (Lite Audio Dac-83) doesn't have USB though.  Need to read up though.