Interesting observations from RMAF.

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Danny Richie

Interesting observations from RMAF.
« on: 17 Oct 2012, 10:56 pm »
Interesting observations about our room, system and the new Super-7 Speakers from Serenity Acoustics.

First a run down of the three days of progression.

Day one we were missing a key piece of our team as Dave wasn't able to make it there until later in the day on Friday. Dave also had some gear with him that we knew would take things up a level. But you work with what you have, and what we had was working pretty well.

Our flexibility and adaptability of what we could do with the room via room treatment was pretty huge. And with my curtains and Dave's (PI Audio) diffusers, we could easily manipulate the sound stage to suit the speakers and listening distances.

The Serenity Acoustics Super-7's also offered a ton of flexibility to manipulate everything from 200Hz and down. That was a huge plus.

So day one we had the best bass response of the show (as usual) really good vocal ranges, super detailed upper ranges, and resolution levels that freaked people out. The speakers really allowed everything up stream to shine. The Dodd Audio tube amps and pre-amps being off the grid gave us another big leg up with dead quite noise floor levels above and beyond all norms. The db Audio Labs DAC was also super clean and more refined from last year. Even the Mac Mini being used as a server was off the grid. It was awesome.

Not only was the noise floor quiet in our system but the whole room was quiet. Stepping out into the hallway was like stepping into the doorway of a night club. Horrible noises boomed and banged down the hallway. And the sound from that room a few doors down (Nola room) was terribly loud all day every day. Poking my head in the door a few times appeared as if it was even louder and more overbearing in the room than in the hallway. I was really wishing that they would just close their door for a while at least. It was even hard to talk in the hallway. It reminded me of a car audio show. Walking back into our room was like walking into a quiet sanctuary. Even with the music playing our room felt soft and comforting. And this year it seamed that way more than ever before. Maybe it was because the hallway was such a contrast this year.

So after hours on day one we had Dave and the Battery Buss for the DAC and external hard drive. That plus some cable swaps and everything was up several notches. The sound stage layering was better, focus was better, sound stage size was better. The noise floor was even lower still. The background was black as the ace of spades. The space between the notes was so clean that it was just almost unreal. We even had a highly well know recorder (from something... records) in the industry say that he was hearing things in the recording that he had never heard before.

Still there was just a little bit of glaze in the upper mids that some pulling back of the crossover point to the woofers and some pulling back of the level of the servo woofers seamed to help. The sound was crazy good, but tilted a little to the thinner brighter side of the spectrum.

Day three HAL says we still haven't tried the other filter settings of the DAC. Another great feature of the DAC that it allowed us some flexibility as well. So we drop in the linear phase filter setting and it cleaned up the upper mids but was a little thinner sounding. So I brought the levels of the servo subs back up and the crossover point was pulled back up a little too. Now we had it all. The tonal balance shifted back to neutral. Some body returned to the lower mids and allowed a real natural sound across the board. Smoother now and more balanced. It never fails that our best sound is always on the last day. It was great having the flexibility though. I think we could almost replicate ideal results in any room.

I am sure some people heard one thing or another in and out of the room and formed some impression based on whatever was playing and went on their way thinking our system or the speakers sounded this way or another. And playing live recordings of Nils Lofgren probably didn't help the perception some may have formed. That whole live album is hotly recording and fairly aggressive. It sure sounded good though. The truth is that the system can be made to sound anyway the end user wants it too. And the speakers were ruthlessly honest in reproducing the input signal.

And the capabilities of the speakers are an interesting thing. I think in some ways that they are too good. What I mean by that is that they are too far and away from the norm that some people tend to think that it must be wrong. I had the same experience with the Super-V kit that I offer regarding the lower frequency range capabilities. Some people would listen to the bass response and say where is the bass? One guy did that this weekend too. They miss the boomy boxed sound and when you take it away then it doesn't sound right to those that have never heard anything else. Eventually they realize that the bass is there, the low extension is there (in spades) and there is a clean and tight impact unlike anything else that they have heard. They then realize that there is detail in the lower ranges that they never realized was there before. And things like a kick drum or the upright bass of Christian McBride had speed and texture that had always been smeared or covered over with all other speakers. Lack of room boom and the absence of the coloration of the room also adds to the detachment from the norm. It is just too different for some.

With the Super-7 that same issue of being too far and away from the norm carried over into all of the rest of the frequency ranges. The speed and detail levels of the mids are the best that I have ever heard. They have the ability to really hit a peak without rounding off the top of the peak. Then they have the ability to stop immediately allowing more space between the notes. High quality caps like the Sonicaps and Sonicap Platinum's make the presentation even more extreme. It was like the dynamic range from dead stop to peak was increased significantly. And then there was no box or box coloration there either because the mids were in an open baffle. It was incredible. But again I think it is too far from the norm. It was so fast, so clean, so dynamic that I think some tend to think that it has to be wrong.

I have even heard a person say that the speakers were too detailed. Too detailed? Really? I could syrup it up with some slower discharge caps and try to round off those peaks and smear the signal a little. Maybe then it would sound more normal. Hmmm, no, I don't think so. Speaker don't add detail. They just reproduce the signal that they receive. Speakers don't take away or clean up the noise floor that wasn't there in the recording. They only smear over or cover it up. Speakers don't filter out the bad and let the good pass. They let it all pass. And if the whole system is super clean then the output from these speakers are also super clean. I think a lot of people hear this big difference from peak to rest or the start/stop speed and high dynamics and attribute it to a brightness. But then if they listen for a while they realize that it really isn't bright at all.  It is smooth and non-fatiguing. Some get it, but I think some don't.

The upper ranges being covered by the Neo tweeter are about the same. In an open baffle that Neo tweeter is a different animal. And with perfect physical and phase alignment of the tweeter and mid-bass panels there is a seamless blend and super high resolution levels top to bottom. And I think for some that is also too far from the norm.

If they happened to sit in the center seats for very long though they likely got a shocker from the imaging and sound stage size. Layering and placement everything in the sound stage is just crazy good as well. For most that also is way past the norm, but I think this is an easy to accept attribute. Most people like this quite a bit and don't take it as wrong if it excels above and beyond in this aspect.

The cool thing though is to watch people really get it. I mean when they get it across the board. Sometimes a piece or two stands out first. It may depend on the music. Dynamics, bass impact, vocal range, etc. Some listeners were really soaking it in and each track was a new revelation, even with familiar music. For all of those people that got it, and told me so, thanks!

Also a big thanks to all that helped make our room what it was. And a big thanks to the good friends that helped unload, set up, run errands, cut and fold literature, tear down, re-pack, load a trailer, and join us for dinners. I am not going to name everyone (you know who you are) because I don't want to leave anyone out. THANKS EVERYONE!

HAL

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Re: Interesting observations from RMAF.
« Reply #1 on: 17 Oct 2012, 11:20 pm »
Danny,
Love the write-up on the room sound!

One correction.   We stopped using the Linear Phase filter in the DAC and went to the better filter and it got better!   :thumb:

gld

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Re: Interesting observations from RMAF.
« Reply #2 on: 17 Oct 2012, 11:22 pm »
Nice job Danny!!!! :thumb:
G

jn316

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Re: Interesting observations from RMAF.
« Reply #3 on: 17 Oct 2012, 11:27 pm »
The cool thing though is to watch people really get it. I mean when they get it across the board. Sometimes a piece or two stands out first. It may depend on the music. Dynamics, bass impact, vocal range, etc. Some listeners were really soaking it in and each track was a new revelation, even with familiar music. For all of those people that got it, and told me so, thanks!

As I posted in another thread, I think I get the open baffle thing now...as I told you in person on Friday. Wish I could have heard it on Sunday. Good job...now get back to work! :)

Oh, funny side story. For whatever reason, I imagined Triode Pete to be some old geezer only to find that he is a young geezer!  :thumb:

Great job guys!

rbbert

Re: Interesting observations from RMAF.
« Reply #4 on: 17 Oct 2012, 11:45 pm »
Danny,
Love the write-up on the room sound!

One correction.   We stopped using the Linear Phase filter in the DAC and went to the better filter and it got better!   :thumb:

Which was the better filter?

HAL

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Re: Interesting observations from RMAF.
« Reply #5 on: 17 Oct 2012, 11:54 pm »
That is up to dB Audio Labs to discuss when they are ready.

stevenkelby

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Re: Interesting observations from RMAF.
« Reply #6 on: 18 Oct 2012, 12:02 pm »
Nice post Danny. It's brave of you to do what you do, breaking the mold like this and pursuing faithful reproduction as your main goal. You guys deserve every success.

Short but good mention of them here :)

http://www.stereophile.com/content/planar-not-plainer