[Kt77]

well once you order remember to describe the benefits if any

I most certainly shall. Thanks once again for turning me onto it to begin with.

Regards,
O_o scar

[Kt77]

Well as per mgsboedmisodpc2 recommendation - I order one of those Exact Audio XTC Counterweights and received it Friday before last, after taking the time to install it and re-calibrate the weight of a Soundsmith Otello using another current purchase with a proper digital cartridge scale - I'm off and running.

It has taken me this time to readjust my thinking on what has actually taken place in regards to the extra sense of musical notes that are flowing through more easily with said aftermarket counterweight attached to either an Amadeus GTA or older Classic MK V - it's as if there's more information being displayed in what I'd have to call a much more natural manner in regards to the way each/every strand from said guitarist appears as if he has grown another finger on each hand as the extra sense of snap has become uncanny. It's far easier to differentiate between nylon and steel strings without straining to hear their pitches as well as undying little nuances that all of a sudden pop out of nowhere.

It offers a sound that I can only refer to as more refined in nature - yet it's very very hard to put into words what's actually going on per SE - but it's as if each record has gained a different level of having the layering of hidden notes/passages unraveled right before my eyes/ears. But I hear what I hear - and I'm a firm believer in the powers of said tweaks and the likes - and as someone whom happens to use and love Shun Mook Super Diamond Resonators  placed underneath my EL84 based integrated amp as well as their weird little room treatment devices called Sugar Cubes which are both hard to explain in a scientific way or those measurements - but actually work in my space enough where those whom have heard their effects have gone on to purchase both for their own listening rooms/spaces - so I must be hearing something's right - correct?.

Anyways - I'm not saying these are better then the stock counterweight - but I merely see/hear it as a alternative which happens to bring out even more information hidden deep within those grooves then thought possible - so my task is then nothing more then a mmeans of making other owners of said line of tables aware that we have options and this like the Marigo Labs WTL Micro-suspension system that I've used under both tables to this day do a very good job of isolating both from unwanted resonances as they exist in every system I've encountered - it's merely a matter of taking said devices into consideration and knowing that each/every thing that's added to one system and/or room effects their overall sound - good, bad or indifferently?.

In the end, it's about voicing ones system to suit their sense of taste as well as priorities - all I can add is system wise, I'm very very very content with what I've in place - but I'm always looking for ways to enhance said system through tweaks/mods - cartridges as all change said systems flavor in one way or another.

I'm digging this tweak, and merely wanted to express that with others - as the new adage goes YMMV?, but if you're trying to get the best from any make of the WTL Tables - I think this is a sound option.

Regards,
O_o scar

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

KIT77 wrote "I'm not saying these are better then the stock counterweight"
Well I would say they are much better than the stock counterweight

[Kt77]

KIT77 wrote "I'm not saying these are better then the stock counterweight"
Well I would say they are much better than the stock counterweight

I was merely trying not to be harsh and say that - but truth be told....., it certainly it better.
Once again - thanks for the heads up on it, John Chong was a pleasure to work with in getting just the right version needed for the cartridges that I use most often. I do intend to get a heavier one for cartridges like your Denon 103R ( Uwe modded version of course ) and an Audio Technica AT-33EV, I've lying around for those rare moments when I wish to sample MCs - which these days is extremely rare.

Regards.
O_o scar

[mick wolfe]

Thanks.

I added the second counterweight yesterday and so far the jury is out. The presentation seemed to get a little quieter and more refined, however,  I'm not sure I didn't lose a little air and presence in the process. Maybe these were actually "pleasant distortions" now eliminated, but if that's the case, I'm not sure I won't eventually go back to one counterweight. Either way, too early in the experiment to say for sure. Also, not sure how the supplied WT weights compare to the much discussed after market weight option. Maybe it gives you the best of both worlds?

[Plink]

Also, not sure how the supplied WT weights compare to the much discussed after market weight option. Maybe it gives you the best of both worlds?

Hi Mick,

Thanks for your input.

Theoretically, the low slung aftermarket counterweight would work better as the weight works in the same plane as the cartridge.  Most people seem to think these type of weights work better.

[mick wolfe]

Hi Mick,

Thanks for your input.

Theoretically, the low slung aftermarket counterweight would work better as the weight works in the same plane as the cartridge.  Most people seem to think these type of weights work better.

I think I'm curious enough to give it a shot. The feedback here has been very positive.

[Plink]

I think I'm curious enough to give it a shot. The feedback here has been very positive.

Yeah, same here but probably not going to happen for a while with me...to busy enjoying (and buying music). 

In addition to the feedback here, just look at all the tonearms out there that have similar type counterweights or adhere to the principal of getting the weight in the same plane as the cartridge.

This isn't a slight against the WT counterweight by any means.  It would cost them a fair amount more to manufacture such a counterweight.  At any rate, it would be interesting to hear Mr. Firebaugh's thoughts on the matter. 

[mick wolfe]

I think I'm curious enough to give it a shot. The feedback here has been very positive.

Well the XTC counterweight arrived a couple of days ago and I've finally had a chance to install and listen. First off, it's a bit more fussy setting tracking force with the XTC ( standard version) than the standard WT Amadeus counterweight. Two things ( at least for me) make it more complex. Setting tracking force with the XTC (as it's slightly heavier than the WT counterweight) requires miniscule adjustments. This is tough when you're dealing with both a set screw and trying to keep the tubular weight parallel to the top of the turntable/ record surface. Now no one has mentioned the parallel relationship, but I wouldn't be comfortable with the weight at a 10 or 20 degree angle in relation to the top of the turntable or record surface. But that's just me.
My listening session was under 2 hours, but that was enough time with familiar material to say that the XTC is an amazing bargain at + or - $70. Beats both the standard WT counterweight and the "doubled up" version. Without writing a book I'd simply say the XTC is almost like upgrading from your current cartridge to one a level or even two higher. All the great buzzwords apply here....more refined, greater sense of ease, greater instrument separation, subtle detailing, etc. Everything sounds so composed that I want to reach over with confidence and turn it up a notch. In summary, I've spent far more than the cost of the XTC and gone sideways at best in many cases. As always however....YMMV. 

[Kt77]

Well the XTC counterweight arrived a couple of days ago and I've finally had a chance to install and listen. First off, it's a bit more fussy setting tracking force with the XTC ( standard version) than the standard WT Amadeus counterweight. Two things ( at least for me) make it more complex. Setting tracking force with the XTC (as it's slightly heavier than the WT counterweight) requires miniscule adjustments. This is tough when you're dealing with both a set screw and trying to keep the tubular weight parallel to the top of the turntable/ record surface. Now no one has mentioned the parallel relationship, but I wouldn't be comfortable with the weight at a 10 or 20 degree angle in relation to the top of the turntable or record surface. But that's just me.
My listening session was under 2 hours, but that was enough time with familiar material to say that the XTC is an amazing bargain at + or - $70. Beats both the standard WT counterweight and the "doubled up" version. Without writing a book I'd simply say the XTC is almost like upgrading from your current cartridge to one a level or even two higher. All the great buzzwords apply here....more refined, greater sense of ease, greater instrument separation, subtle detailing, etc. Everything sounds so composed that I want to reach over with confidence and turn it up a notch. In summary, I've spent far more than the cost of the XTC and gone sideways at best in many cases. As always however....YMMV.

Hi Mick,

First off I'm happy to see/hear that you were open-minded enough to give the XTC a try, as we vinyl lovers tend to overlook the little tweaks that actually are capable of enhancing our listening sessions for the better, as some simply are ready for change.

Much like my ongoing pursuit into said devices - I've gone one further and have placed an order ( eBay ) for some head shell/cartridge mounting screws made from titanium. As a vinyl lover by nature I'm more inclined to seek out things like this - as I'd much rather invest in my primary source as a means of getting every little hidden nuance raised to the surface if you will - then not know what said tables are fully capable of, but settling on devices that come stock as they're.

Much the same can be said for those little 30 cents each footers on the bottom of ones $5.000 - $10.000 Preamp/Power Amp or Integrated's - and thinking that placing said components upon the likes of say a small cheap Ikea Lack table that ones is hearing them at their best. Far from the truth I might add, but as some of my friends over the last 21 years can attest to - I isolate each/every component source to speaker/speaker stand interfacing devices accordingly - and go one further by using IsoClean TT-008 Tip Toe bases underneath the spikes ( Track Audio - by the way ) of both speaker/audio stands ( Sound Anchors custom sized ) and have causes many of said friends to follow suit - as the old adage goes

" the proof, is in the pudding/listening ".

All that's needed is an open-mind and a little bit of vision.

Enjoy your vinyl, Mick.
Because there's nothing else like it to my mind. Vinyl and Tubes have this sense of how do I put it?, refinement - purity - tonality - truth of timbre to it, that digital will simply never have.

Regards,
O_oh