CD player to drive amp

jmsun · « **on:** 16 May 2004, 03:03 am »

I am in the process of setting up my 2-channel system. I have a few options:
1. CDP + active preamp + amp
2. CDP + passive preamp + amp
3. CDP + amp
I have already have my amy - Odyssey mono. What CDP can drive my amp directly without using preamp (option 3)? Is this option the best in term of pure sound quality? Thanks!

TIC · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 May 2004, 03:21 pm »

You have several options, including CD direct. I've owned 3 different CD players with volume control, and for me, the simplicity and transparency were the positive attributes.

I've owned:

Theta Miles (balanced version, is superior to non-balanced, even if using RCA outputs)

Cary CD-308

Resolution Audio Opus 21

The Cary was the best value IMHO because it can be bought for $800 or less used and it sounded very good. It also outputs a 24bit/96khz signal to the digital output in case you want to try an external DAC later.

The RA Opus 21 was easily the best, but also the most expensive at $3500 new or about $2500+ used. It is world class and a bargain compared to other world class CD players like Accuphase, Audiomecca, Audio Aero, etc.

Now, for a lot less money, you could buy a decent player and use something like a Luminous Audio Axiom passive volume control. The LAT Axiom is only $125 brand new and the designer will build it to work best with YOU system.

Enjoy,

TIC

booda · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 May 2004, 05:40 pm »

The Cary performs well when used as a volume control sans pre. Another option would be a Monarchy DAC 22C or 33. Then you could use an inexpensive transport. Also the Monarchy 33C has two extra inputs to add other sources. The Musical Fidelity CD Pre may be anotheroption. Checkout the review at Audioasylum owhich compares the CD Pre as well as the Cary 308.

TIC · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 May 2004, 05:54 pm »

booda,

Good point! I previously owned a Monarchy Model 33 and it was very good. It certainly would present a more budget minded option if paired with a quality DVD player as transport.

I also owned a Birdland Odeon Lite DAC which has a very good volume control too. I think there is one on AudiogoN for $475 right now.

I've obviously owned many of the available volume controlled Digital playback units and of those the Resolution Audio was far superior, but also most expensive. If budget were a concern, the Cary is very good and so is the Monarchy volume controlled DAC.

As usually, there is mote than one way to accomplish your goal!

Enjoy,

TIC

Paul L · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 May 2004, 06:56 pm »

I think the transport + Monarchy 33C is a good choice if you want the gain of the line-stage.

Tom, not trying to dispute with your evaluation, the 308's volume control is not up to standard. One of my customers evaluted the 308 driving the poweramp direct vs 308/LW1S2/poweramp as well as with other CD players. He said the internal volume can only do about 70% of what the LW1S2. I actually have another customer who said the 306/200's volume ($500 option) is inferior to the LW1S2 as well. Similar was said by UHF's review of Linn Genki saying that the internal volume control made the player sounded like a CDN$500 player.

CD player's built-in volume implementation normally is aftherthought unless the some companies actually incorporate a line amp (like Monarcahy or Krell) in the analogue stage. Have not heard the Resolution Audio so can't comment on that.

TIC · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 May 2004, 07:16 pm »

Hey Paul,

It's very possible that the Cary volume control is not up to the level of the LW. I haven't heard the LW cause you've been resistant to sending one to me gratis! :~) (just kidding Paul, but you are welcome to send me one and I'll even pay shipping!) Since I only use a single source in my 2-channel system, I haven't needed or wanted the expense of a separate pre-amp or passive unit. Also, I really like having control of the volume via the remote control.

I can tell you this, I was perfectly happy with the Cary direct into my BottleHead Paramours and powering my Reference 3a MM DeCapos. I kinda wish I had kept it.

Now, about the Resolution Audio Opus 21: This is about as good as it gets for a CD player without spending over $5000 from everything I've read. Again, I wish I had kept mine, but I'm building a new house for the family and I was feeling a bit guilty having a $3000 CD player. However, I may end up buying one again if the used price comes down. BTW, I think that the RA O21 has a line stage built in. RA has a working relationship with DNM of England. Wonder if they designed the line-stage. If so, they are considered top-notch.

Lastly, what is the going rate for FT Audio LW1 these days? Is there a web site?

Enjoy,

TIC

Paul L · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 May 2004, 07:46 pm »

Tom,

If the RA line stage is developed by DNM, it ought to be a good one. I have been talking about DNM for two or three decades and I am carrying their cables. The Canadian importer of DNM still yet import their electronics.

Our website is still www.ftaudio.com

jmsun · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 May 2004, 03:58 am »

Thanks for the feedback so far. I have the Perpetual Tech P1/P3 in the mix. Basically I am trying to decide whether I should buy a expensive CDP to drive the amps directly or get a budget CDP (like Denon 1650AR) and a passive preampm, or maybe an active one. Keep the ideas coming.

Paul L · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 May 2004, 12:59 pm »

If you have the P1A/P3A already (that is what I have too), think get a good used transport and good passive is the way to go. I am using a trade-in TEAC VRDS-10 as transport and sound pretty good.

If you want a one box with good variable output that can match the PT, I think you need to go a lot higher price market.

jmsun · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 May 2004, 01:53 am »

Thanks Paul. Because I am new to the two chanel stuff, I'd appreciate it if you can suggest some decent used transport (less than $1000). Also, I was not sure how a good used transpot (5-10 year old tech) compare to a state of the art universal player (Denon 5900). Any comments?

Hantra · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 May 2004, 02:42 am »

I am running my Lynx L22 at +4db, which is studio standard level, and it will drive any amp. I run a passive, and it's much better than with 2 gain stages. Even at -10db, it will drive an amp. Plenty of output.

B

Paul L · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 May 2004, 03:39 am »

Jmsun,
I am cheapstake and that is why we make our own passive. We don't want to spend money on active preamp to do 'wrong fix wrong'. So, I have yet to evaluate any state of art universal player yet. I am not a multichannel nor video fan yet (another cheapstake show). I have yet heard any mass market DVD player using as transport can play CDs as well as a good CD transport.

Some older transport that can be considered are the Teac VRDS series, Pioneer stable platform PD series, Philips based or higher end Sony. I am not familiar with Denon so can't comment.

nathan_klassen · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 May 2004, 11:00 pm »

Quote from: Paul L

One of my customers evaluted the 308 driving the poweramp direct vs 308/LW1S2/poweramp as well as with other CD players. He said the internal volume can only do about 70% of what the LW1S2.

That would be me

One of the biggest advantages the LW1S2 had over the Cary 308's preamp was height. Soundstage was bigger with the Little Wonder and the depth was better defined, I found instrument timbre to also be a bit better. However with the 308 it just felt as if all the musicians sat down, put the LW1S2 into the system and they stood up again - remarkable difference.

Would it be possible to live with the Cary 308 without a better pre such as the LW1S2 in between it and my power amp? Yes. But I wouldn't want too.

KeithR · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 May 2004, 06:36 pm »

Rant- this question is asked every few weeks. Do some searching.

Real answer- Odyssey has low impedance, so passive doesn't work well with it.

TIC · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jun 2004, 03:45 pm »

JMSUN,

I posted a list of several CDP's that I had previously owned, and all had volume control. Well, you can add one more to the list. I just bought a Musical Fidelity CD/Pre-24. It is a quality transport, DAC, pre-amp, digital switcher, ADC, all in one box. I've only had it a couple of days, so it's not broken-in yet, but I can say that it sounds very good. Additionally, it is visually very attractive.

It was $3000 list when released in 2002. Earlier this year the list price was dropped to $2000 and production was discontinued. I bought mine for more than 50% off of the original list price and it was brand new!!!

Nice unit and might be a good choice if the input impedence of your amp does not like passives as stated by Keith...........

Enjoy,

TIC

CptTripps · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Jun 2004, 07:38 pm »

When I had a rig like this, the MAIN thing I looked for was either a REAL GOOD digital volume controll, or a servo-based volume inside the unit. If you are looking to stay under the $1,000 mark on the player, and want a killer transport, find a Sony XA7ES. Don't laugh...I think this player holds a record of some kind for 'longest time on Stereophile's Class-A list'. I found one at a dealer that was their old demo, took it to a friend, and it truly smoked his 2-box setup of a Theta Perl transport and Conrad Johnson DA2 DAC. It's a REAL amazing player. The coolness of the transport mech is cool too....it moves the disk over the laser. Super-awesome player...

If you are on a SUPER budget, grab a Phillips CD-60. it has a servo-based volume on it. These were VERY modded back in the mid-90s. Great/clean sound.

If you have the money, grab a Wadia single-box player like a 850 or 830. Either will have the best digital volume out there and sound amazing. I'm using a modded 850 right now, and unless SACD REALLY takes over, I'll die with this player. (And I'm only 29 right now)

Hope that helps...