[Delacroix]

Let me preface this with a clarification that I don't want to irk any sellers or poison the well for a particular seller but a recent purchase on e-bay has me frustrated and wondering if there is anything we can do collectively to assist other vinyl buyers.

Here's the situation.  I see an LP from the early 1960s I like. Serial number is as expected. It's listed as 'sealed, Columbia, out of print'. Various other descriptors point to it's being a "high quality pressing", "long out of print" "much sought after" etc. So I buy and am disappointed to get a Sony reissue from more recent time. In fairness, it shares the same number as the original on the outside sleeve, but it's obvious, at least to me, before I even open the plastic seal that this is a much later Sony reissue and certainly not the original Columbia LP. 

I won't go into the specifics but I did not even formally complain, I just gave 'neutral' feedback and informed the seller how disappointed I was, not least because this seller is a highly rated, specialist dealer who reports perfect feedback. His response to me basically said 'caveat emptor' and that "nowhere on the sleeve does it say it's a Sony" so it's not his or her fault if I thought it was another version.  Well, the seller is right, it does not mention 'Sony' but the quality of the sleeve graphics, the newness of the cover, and more importantly to this issue, the fact that this LP, in this form, is easily bought through many online stores for half what I paid, clearly described by other sellers as a reissue, is what frustrates me.

So, I am now not even concerned with the extra money I paid, I want to check the validity of the seller's claim that this LP is 'out of print' because that is a claim made  repeatedly in the advert. So, given the fact that many out of print LPs are probably easily purchased through various dealers, how might I determine the print status? 

I just imagine many of us have had similar deals and feel that the odds in e-bay are stacked in favor of the clever seller. This dealer is selling further copies, with same advert wording, at an even higher price today. In this case, I do want to check the legalities rather than complain about the ethics, if only to protect myself and others from similar disappointments. Any pointers to the 'print' issue are most welcome.

[Wayner]

Google the LP's catalog number when in doubt. I've done this a few times and have found that there are re-issues out there on OOPs.

The other factor is that you thought you had an original in shrink wrap from 1960s era, which I find the possibility to be very "impossible".

There may be one blessing in the whole thing, and that is that Columbia has notoriously put out some recordings that are not to RIAA specs, exhibiting very shrilly sound, lacking in bass and imaging. This can be said of most of Columbia's rock and roll catalog. So perhaps the reissued Sony pressing has been done correctly.

Wayner 

[Elizabeth]

Agree with op the seller should have known, and most certainly did know, that your Lp was a reissue.
Sort of like finding a mint sealed Bob Dylan first Lp in mono?
NOT. (Sundazed)
Anyway, it is tough to know what is being sold from an online seller as to first issue, reissue..  Even some sellers price reissues as if the first. Half Price Books is notorious for doing this in thier 'collectable' Lp bins (and I am certain it is due to ignorance, not fraud)
I buy a lot of Jazz, and have to say I am very lucky to be able to buy locally. Even then no choice on used as to whether an original or reissue. nearly all the Jazz Lps i find are reissues in the 1970's 1980's of earlier stuff.

[Delacroix]

Thanks both.  I did not actually imagine the shrink wrap was original but I understood it to mean the seller could not actually look at the inside label to know it was a Sony. That he is listing the same LP again at inflated prices with the same ambiguous wording, despite my communications with him, confirms my view that he's not being totally above board with his descriptions.

The trouble with the Google search of the catalog number is it turns up numerous copies of the album, which are out there from many sellers,  but what I am seeking is some reliable guide to the status of 'out of print'. I presume some records go in and out of print depending on labels so how does one determine in any given year if a specific LP is in or out of print? In other words, is there some official guide or source of accurate info. Am not having much luck tracing this by catalog number from either Sony or Columbia. I want to be sure of my ground before I engage seller further. Frankly, the sum of money involved is not that great and I do have an LP I did not have, but I feel there is an element of dishonesty here that should not go unchecked.

[orthobiz]

Can you clarify one more time exactly how you know it is the Sony reissue?

Paul

[orthobiz]

Oh, and I was at a record store last year and was delighted to find a brand spanking new Japanese pressing of one of the first four Eno albums with an OBI strip and everything. The owner was quick to point out that he had doubts about the legitimacy of the pressing, thinking they were high quality bootlegs, but he wasn't sure. He just wanted me to know and I passed on the recording after thanking him. And it was by no means the kind of store that is into shady stuff, from what I could tell. This appeared to be an anomaly.

There is another record store in my local area (100 miles away!) that has virtually shrink-wrapped everything. I thought shrink was sacred but it's obviously not.

Paul

[roscoeiii]

Paul,

I don't think the Obi Eno LPs are bootlegs. They are sold by Reckless here in Chicago and they do a pretty good job of avoiding bootlegs. You should be able to order them online from them if there are still Eno albums you are looking for.

[Delacroix]

Can you clarify one more time exactly how you know it is the Sony reissue?

Paul

The label on the actual record --  Sony Music Special Products

[roscoeiii]

Discogs is a great resource for details on each pressing of a record. They often have identifying characteristics listed for each release of a recording, including deadwax. If you are worried about how genuine an LP is, get them to give you what the deadwax says. If Discogs doesn't have the info on the deadwax, check over at SH forum. That's the go-to forum for questions about editions of vinyl for me. Never come across a forum its equal for being able to answer these sorts of questions.

[Delacroix]

Update:

I decided to press the seller a little further so I told him that it was true, nowhere on the sleeve did it mention 'Sony', but the sleeve was obviously not very old, the cover photo image and back cover text suggested reproduction to the naked eye rather than original 1960s print, and that any reputable dealer would surely be able to see this as a later release, not an original Columbia. Further, since he now had proof from one buyer as to what was actually inside his 'sealed' copies, he should change his listing for subsequent copies. 

His reply within hours was that he'd been in the business for years, he had untold amounts of positive feedback on E-bay (true, over 10,000 it seems) and that in his experience, though he knows of many such re-issues of Columbia records, he has never seen one where this reissue status was not labeled clearly on the outside. Further, once more, any buyer should get the questions in before, rather than after. 

Less than an hour after this exchange, he changed the listing of his other copies, not to indicate any re-issue status, but to now label his items 'Columbia Original'. Oh, and he upped the price further (while simultaneously offering a 10% discount on the newly inflated price, nice touch).

That last act really struck me as brazen so I wrote back again and said, in effect, that if he really had sealed originals, despite my experience with him thus far I would buy another one, at his newly inflated asking price, if he would agree to open the seal prior to shipping and confirm it was an original, rather than a reissue. He has not answered me in three days.

In checking his feedback, it is indeed hugely positive. But, in the last two months, I note other reviewer, also offering 'neutral' feedback, who says that his 'sealed' copy had fingerprints all over the vinyl, so clearly someone other than the original record company is doing this sealing.  I wonder who that is!  I've decided now to register a formal complaint with Ebay asking that he correct his listings - I don't care about the money, I want to stop the dishonesty.  I won't hold my breath for resolution. If buying, remember to "get your questions in first" (as this well-regarded seller would have us all know).

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

I don't care about the money, I want to stop the dishonesty.

E-trading is convenient but can risk being ripped off. Besides, I personally don't want my credit card confidentiality be open to the public, risking unfathomable money damage.

So you still want to e-trade?

c-J