Wire types.

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*Scotty*

Re: Wire types.
« Reply #20 on: 14 Jan 2012, 09:09 pm »
Delta Wave, these are actually production pieces. This is how smaller companies with limited production runs like PS Audio and Superphon made equipment back in the 80s. The circuit boards are high quality fiber-glass with all through hole components. The circuit boards are soldered by hand instead of wave soldered. This avoids requiring the components to withstand the higher heat involved in the wave soldering process.
 The point to point wiring is obviously more labor intensive then a robotically loaded circuit board that is wave soldered and then dropped into the chassis ready to go.
Scotty

Netdewt

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 62
Re: Wire types.
« Reply #21 on: 20 Jan 2012, 07:49 pm »
So basically... it does not matter? As long as it works for you, is what I get from all that.

*Scotty*

Re: Wire types.
« Reply #22 on: 20 Jan 2012, 08:08 pm »
Netdewt, a quick test can be done for the audibility of the wire gauge you decide to use. Assuming for the moment that your preamp is built and you are just about to wire up the input jacks to the selector switch. Bypass wiring in the selector switch and connect the wire you are considering directly to the volume pot and take a listen. You might try comparing a simple 24ga. solid wire to a 14ga stranded wire. You should hear a large difference between to the two wires,if you don't,then use the wire that is easiest to route and solder in the chassis.
Scotty

Delta Wave

Re: Wire types.
« Reply #23 on: 20 Jan 2012, 08:11 pm »
Netdewt, a quick test can be done for the audibility of the wire gauge you decide to use. Assuming for the moment that your preamp is built and you are just about to wire up the input jacks to the selector switch. Bypass wiring in the selector switch and connect the wire you are considering directly to the volume pot and take a listen. You might try comparing a simple 24ga. solid wire to a 14ga stranded wire. You should here a large difference between to the two wires,if you don't,then use the wire that is easiest to route and solder in the chassis.
Scotty

An easy solution, again, something I would over look.  :thumb:

*Scotty*

Re: Wire types.
« Reply #24 on: 20 Jan 2012, 09:02 pm »
I first did this almost by accident about seven years ago. I had just finished wiring up a buffer and I wanted to hear how it sounded. To make a quick and dirty connection I soldered in a piece of Belden 1701A  in, which is a siamesed bonded twisted pair of teflon insulated 24 ga. wires. Well I made the connection using about six inches of wire and the preamp didn't sound bad but it did seem a little short on dynamics and space. I subsequently wired in the selector switch and used 12ga. on one set of inputs and the aforementioned 24ga wire on the another set of inputs and there was no doubt about which type of wire was better sounding.
 The inputs with the 12 ga. wire were more dynamic sounding and the bass was much more present and well defined. The sound-staging differences were quite startling. the 12ga. had a  larger presentation of the acoustic space where the recording was done and the preamp sounded much more open. Image height,width and depth were also greatly improved over the 24ga..
With these results,I proceeded wire up the rest of the inputs with 12ga.wire,it really was a no brainer. The 12 gauge wire has been used as a twisted pair with the ground leg attached at ground on the RCA jack the other end left unattached. Only the signal hot hits the selector switch. The twisted pair configuration was used to try to add a little bit of capacitance per ft. to the wire. This really was unnecessary as it turns out and just added misery to the wiring job.

 
Here is a picture of the completed project.

Scotty


Steve

Re: Wire types.
« Reply #25 on: 20 Jan 2012, 10:21 pm »
Hi Scotty,

Looks nice. Wires neat, good spacing, and 90 degree angles.

Should perform pretty good.

Cheers and good luck.

*Scotty*

Re: Wire types.
« Reply #26 on: 20 Jan 2012, 11:00 pm »
It did, but the buffer had pretty simple diode shunt regulation of the power supply rails and this injected a fair amount noise that local storage caps could not eliminate. A more complex mosfet based shunt regulator circuit was used in the production piece as well as better cascoded active current sources.
The buffer would actually "clean up" a 1MHz square wave from the signal generator because it would drive the input of the scope better than the signal generator.
Scotty

Steve

Re: Wire types.
« Reply #27 on: 21 Jan 2012, 04:12 pm »
It did, but the buffer had pretty simple diode shunt regulation of the power supply rails and this injected a fair amount noise that local storage caps could not eliminate. A more complex mosfet based shunt regulator circuit was used in the production piece as well as better cascoded active current sources.
The buffer would actually "clean up" a 1MHz square wave from the signal generator because it would drive the input of the scope better than the signal generator.
Scotty

Have not seen the circuits, but zener regulators, gaseous regulators, mercury vapor rectifiers do produce alot of noise, which can be difficult to remove. Even small resistances and placement to ground can make a difference.

Cheers and good luck.

ajaxmike

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 5
Re: Wire types.
« Reply #28 on: 4 Apr 2012, 10:37 am »
Hawksford's analysis was fully debunked many years ago.  The test setup was improperly done, parasitics were ignored, and he used magnetic steel wire within the test yet ignored it's permeability and the consequent hundredfold increase of internal wire inductance.

Jn

Hey jneutron, do you have a reference where Hawksford's analysis was "fully debunked?"  I have never heard that and would love to read how it was debunked.

Thanks