[kujokku]

Fellow posters: I am publicly venting on a irritating part of this hobby. Tube burn in time. You can spend a hundred or hundreds on upscale bottles and then have babysit these things until they ripen with audio magic. I have an Audio Space ref 3 300B and have bought some Synergy 6sn7s by Create Audio to improve the driver. While they sound O.K they havent reached that nth degree yet, it has been 2 or 3 weeks, and all can reflect on is the Kinks song "Tired of waiting for you". I will keep you posted on the results when the music really flows.  If you want to complain go ahead now's your chance.

[gooberdude]

You could buy a relatively inexpensive burn-in device to take care of that.  I use hagerman's frybaby on most everything.

I've recently been buying new TJ full music 6SN7's, and yeah they do break in.  A few nights with the frybaby takes care of the worst of it.

devices like the Frybaby or similar will condition gear, cables, tubes etc to perform better than after an 'in use' burn-in as well, which sorta sweetens the deal IMO.

[ltr317]

It shouldn't take weeks to burn in a tube.  At most maybe a few hours.  I have been using tubes for decades, and once the tube gets to full operating parameters it shouldn't change the sound much or at all.  Those 6SN7s may not be a good match with your current equipment. 

[Quiet Earth]

Here is a quote from Emission Labs about burn in on their F.A.Q. page :

"Do the tubes need a burn in?

Yes they do! Good Burn-in will assure maximum lifetime and develop the final sound. These tubes are burned-in initially. This burn-in process will be extended in the first 50-100 hours under normal (home) use conditions. This means you must switch off the amplifier after each use, and in the beginning not use the tubes longer than 4 hours at one time. Many short use periods have a better result than few long periods. The tubes need the cold periods in between for best formatting of the filament. Some occasional blue glow effects will disappear during burn-in, or may stay. This is not gas, and it is normal. Use different loudness levels from the beginning, and increase the maximum loudness gradually. If tubes with very little use were switched off longer than 12 months, is necessary to repeat the burn in."


I tend to agree with these guys, because I have noticed that it usually takes somewhere between 50 and 100 hours for newly manufactured tubes to settle in. But in this case :

While they sound O.K they havent reached that nth degree yet,

Like ltr317 says, maybe that's as good as they are going to get in your gear. If you already have a couple hundred hours on them then that might be as good as they're gonna get. FWIW, I am having the same experience with a new set of Full Music brass base 6SN7s that I bought from Hanshare Electronics. They sound fine of course and they don't have any issues, but they just don't quite do it for me. I put the old GEs back in and then some RCAs to confirm. Ah,,,,,, that's better. Maybe I'll run the Full Musics for another week or two and see if they improve. Or maybe I'll just let them sit on the shelf while I burn my plain-jane RCAs.

Speaking of sitting on the shelf, in a different unrelated thread one poster (JLM) referred to rolling tubes and aging tubes. I had always wondered about this when we buy old tubes. Does anyone here think that letting new tubes sit for years on the shelf could make them age beneficially? Is this part of the magic to some of the NOS treasures that we buy? I realize that the materials and manufacturing techniques were most of the magic, but I wonder about the age aspect of it too.

(If you're reading this JLM, I hope you don't mind me bringing it up.  )

[decal]

Don't worry about it so much. When you start obsessing about this stuff you lose sight of why you listen to music, unless you are one of those equipment junkies and the music is not the number one priority. Just keep listening and the rest will take care of itself. Just my opinion,nothing more.

[bunky]

i have a pair of the Synergy/Create Audio 6SN7's and i used them for several months and they were decent 6SN7's then i recieved a quad of Black Treasure CV181-Z and i have never looked back. i used two in my Purity Basis linestage and two in my Niteshade NS-40 tube amplifier.i dont know of a better 6SN7 than the CV 181-Z either Current manufacture or NOS. i currently run two CV 181-Z in a 90 wpc LA Audio A100-R integrated tube amplifier in the preamp section and it really sounds nice.in my experience some tubes will change in the first 50 hours and others can take several hundred hours to settle in. some tubes sound the same after several hundred hours as they did out of the box 

[Pez]

Haha a lot of different opinions on break in. I also freaking hate it. I am burning in a pair of Psvane KT88s and can verify these things take 300 hours or so. Ridiculous. I am hating the way they sound right now, but they will get better, I know from experience.

[Quiet Earth]

Ok, you talked me into it. Back they go for at least another 100. 

[kujokku]

An update my Synergy 6sn7s burn in- they have SLOWLY improved over the last few weeks and tonight they seem be showing more tube virtues that I like- the flow of music and the sweetness of tone. Electric guitars are having more sizzle. I think they have some ways to go but things are looking up. I estimate better than 300 hours javascript:void(0); Also Bunky if these dont get too much better I might try a pair of Black Treasure cv-181s,Thank you for all your responses on this thread, Kujocku

[Quiet Earth]

Hey, you beat me to it kujokku. I was going to check back to see how things were going.

 I also put at least another hundred hours on my new Full Music 6SN7s since the last time we posted here, and they have relaxed and improved a bit too. (Thanks for the encouragement Pez!) But I think that with more than 300 hours on these tubes they are what they are, which is more of a modern lean sound rather than a classic warm, rich and easy going sound. That's Ok though, because they work well for mixing and matching with the other tubes that I can use in the system.

I think that I'm also going to have to try that black treasure 181 as well. Eventually.

[medium jim]

i have a pair of the Synergy/Create Audio 6SN7's and i used them for several months and they were decent 6SN7's then i recieved a quad of Black Treasure CV181-Z and i have never looked back. i used two in my Purity Basis linestage and two in my Niteshade NS-40 tube amplifier.i dont know of a better 6SN7 than the CV 181-Z either Current manufacture or NOS. i currently run two CV 181-Z in a 90 wpc LA Audio A100-R integrated tube amplifier in the preamp section and it really sounds nice.in my experience some tubes will change in the first 50 hours and others can take several hundred hours to settle in. some tubes sound the same after several hundred hours as they did out of the box 

Some swear by NOS 5692 Red and Brown Base and Mil Spec NOS 6SN7's, such as Raytheon 6SN7wgt's.  Most mil spec NOS will be burned in to stabilize them.  I agree that 50 to 100 hours is typically all it takes for the the tube to fully form and stabilize. 

Jim

[bunky]

most nine pin minature tubes and octal 6SN7's are done changing in 50 to 100 hours but some will not settle in for several hundred hours. mil spec and computer grade nos tubes were the best of the best and were hand selected at the factories for military and computer service. the Psvane and Black Treasure power tubes can take upwards of 400 hrs to fully burn in.it seems to depend on what materials the tubes were constructed with as to how long it takes them to burn in.

[medium jim]

Bunky:

True, and some for whatever reason never do completely form. Power tubes can take up to 1000 hours before they get real good.  Not that they don't sound good initially.

One advantage of tubes from the golden era is that they last well over 2x longer (as a general rule) than their counterpart current production tubes.

Nothing wrong with buying used vintage tubes that test strong and will usually cost the same as current production and will have already been burned in!

Jim

[jtwrace]

Bunky:

Power tubes can take up to 1000 hours before they get real good.

  So 10% of the rated life is lost because of burn in?   

[medium jim]

  So 10% of the rated life is lost because of burn in?   

The operative word was "Can"  It took about 200 hours for my Mullards XF2's to get real happy

Jim