[Joemamma]

Those modded Magnestand MMG's look great but the price to modify them is a lot more than I want to spend.  It seems that the crossover in the MMG's is the weakest link.  At the price point I guess there has to be some compromises.  Skiing ninja offers a crossover for the 1.6 but not the MMG's.  I dont see myself taking apart the speaker and messing with the whole thing.  Are there any other options. Does anybody else offer the service to work on these?  Would I notice that big of a difference?  Thanks

[josh358]

Those modded Magnestand MMG's look great but the price to modify them is a lot more than I want to spend.  It seems that the crossover in the MMG's is the weakest link.  At the price point I guess there has to be some compromises.  Skiing ninja offers a crossover for the 1.6 but not the MMG's.  I dont see myself taking apart the speaker and messing with the whole thing.  Are there any other options. Does anybody else offer the service to work on these?  Would I notice that big of a difference?  Thanks

In the past, PG has been good enough to provide the schematic of his series crossover to those who ask him by email. I've seen a response curve and IIRC it closes a dip in the midrange, but that was on-axis response, so I'm not sure how much it means (power response correlates more closely with what we hear). Despite what you may have heard, it doesn't improve efficiency, that's impossible. Another thing you can consider is upgrading the components in the original crossover design. BTW, there are two versions of the MMG, the old one uses a different crossover than the new one.

[Davey]

Yeah, the Magnestand service raises the price of a $600.00 set of speakers to $2500.00.  If you're primarily interested in performance and not aesthetics it's a very hefty sum.  The crossover is a poor design...IMHO.  But that's another subject.

Are you sure you don't want to mess with the speakers yourself?  If you're halfway handy (or have a buddy who is) much money can be saved by using the DIY approach.  I advocate that approach strongly.
Offloading the crossover to an external platform allows to use a larger air-core inductor and a (possibly) better polypro capacitor.  I'd recommend some minor component value changes to the existing crossover.  You'd have to spend about $100.00 for parts and invest a bit of sweat equity.

The problem with folks providing an upgrade service to the MMG's is that they're so cheap to begin with.  Once you send them to somebody for work and they spend even a couple of hours on them you'll easily incur a decent price tag.  Nobody with the skills to modify these is going to work for minimum wage.    Do you see the dilemma and why the DIY approach makes much more sense?

Cheers,

Dave.

[Rclark]

IMO the Magnestand mod, sonically, is completely worth every penny and more. I would LOVE to put it up against anything after break in, especially self built modded mmg's, no problem at all, all day long. The crossover is amazing and getting better. The beauty of the wood and the craftsmanship is a definite plus as well.

For just a bare bones approach, there are people here who can help you build stands but from what I understand messing with the panel is not for the faint of heart!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do 

 You might consider looking at Mye stands. Just a couple hundred bucks and users say provides some improvement. I can believe it because I had my stock mmg's bungee'd to cardboard boxes and tilted forward. That was a modest slight improvement.

[josh358]

Just raising them up vertically and getting them maybe 8" off the floor is a *huge* improvement, but you need a sub to do that because it costs you some bass.

[Joemamma]

I am sure there is a learning curve to DIY these speakers.  I dont want to sacrifice a pair 0f $600 speakers to change the crossover.  I called magnepan and they said the speakers sound great the way they are but I should talk to Wendell about possible mods.  It would be great if magnepan offered different trim lines on there speakers.  I would have a lot more peace of mind if they did it.  The MMg's have been out for a long time so I dont see this happening.  I read about Jeff Glawacki/Sonic Craft  and modded crossovers.  Is this the same company that sells capacitors etc out of Hot Springs Ar.  I would not expect somebody who knows what they are doing to be cheap, but $1800!  I would love to see measurements, more testimonials, reviews, etc.. comparing the stock and modified versions. 

[Davey]

Joe,

I sense that you should probably just enjoy the speakers and forget about modding them.  You're in good company with the VAST majority of Magnepan owners who just enjoy their speaks unmodified.  There will always be commercial "services" looking to make a buck by "improving" your speakers.  I'm not sure what your financial situation is but, better to sit back and evaluate all those folks for a bit of time before you commit to spending your hard-earned dollars.

Raise your eyebrow at everything you read on these forums.....even from fellas like Josh and I.  After awhile you'll be able to separate the BS from the straight scoop.

Cheers,

Dave.

[jk@home]

Modding the MMG crossover is easy, first step is to get the courage to remove that plate in the back. Once you do that you will realize that it isn't that complicated. Just a two way speaker, with four wires to the crossover.

Hey, I stink at electronics, but was still able to put together a modded series crossover for my MMGs. Here's the first version "just to see if it works" (which it did fine). Four components, (sans fuse, which is recommended to be removed):




Finished project (with a couple of changes):




If you email PG of Magnestand, he can help if you are interested in the series (SMG) style. Many folks with the newer MMGs go with the older MMG parallel style crossover, some have even gone with the MG12 receipie. Jeff at Sonic Craft can help you there.  Heck if you have two amps, talk to Davey about a passive line level jobber (although now he may be using speaker-level on his?). Once you know what you want, places like Parts Express, Sonic Craft, Madisound, and DiyHIFi, can be used to access the parts.

Point is there's a ton of info available regarding modding the MMG crossover, Who knows, it could be the most modded OEM speaker out there. A lot of folks do the x-over mod, and some new bought or diy stands, and stop there. Not to steal the thunder here, but the other maggie forum at AA has pages and pages of folks documenting this mod.

[JohnR]

I have a question... Would (n't) the need for a frame mod be greatly diminished if the speaker were highpassed? (For the sake of argument, let's say at 100 Hz)

[jk@home]

In my case the frame mod made the speakers sturdier with more mass, although the theory is it dissipates vibration from the panel. But from what I understand, high passing the MMGs will help in any case, because the two drivers are on the same panel, so the less bass one can get away with, the less interaction it will have with the tweeter. Plus all the other advantages of bi-amping.

The other smarter guys in the room can take it from here...

[Davey]

You needn't email for that crossover.  It's right here:

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/peter_gunn/mmg.htm

If you want to listen to in-your-face midrange, that's a good way to go. 


Yes, hi-passing the MMG's is a good thing because it relieves them from attempting bass duties.  MMG's don't have much (real) bass and if you take away all that vibration from the panels it cleans up the midrange considerably.  I still like the idea of building some heavier frames for the speaker.....and it's very inexpensive to do.  (My speakers are currently high-passed at 80Hz with a 4th-order electrical crossover.)

However, this means you need to utilize some woofers with the MMG's and then the overall cost goes up.

You can see the latest iteration here:

http://home.comcast.net/~dreite/MMGframe.htm

Cheers,

Dave.

[stigs]

Here is my version of a PG crossover.

[Rclark]

Oh that's neat! How did you do the lid? Looks like you got the stock panel mounted into your own stand, is that correct?

Really clean looking layout inside the box. How do you like the Obliggato? That thing is enormous!

[jk@home]

Here is my version of a PG crossover...

Very nice finish, "PG" quality!  Is that a Humidor?

I see you're using the Patented posts too.
Borrow some red fingernail polish from the wife or girlfriend, and put a dab on the "+" mark, makes life easier.

[jk@home]

You needn't email for that crossover...

Hey Dave, I noticed on a AA thread a while back you mentioned the passive x-over you are using now:

..."I've since converted the MMG mid/tweet crossover back to a passive version which utilizes a 2mH coil on the "woofer" and 16uF/1.5ohm combination in series with the tweeter"...

Is that something you designed specifically for your system or is it something that could be use in any situation? Just a regular "old style" MMG crossover configuration?

[Davey]

Yeah, that crossover sounds/measures the best, to me.  It's a standard parallel configuration (not series.)  I have my speakers turned "backwards" (with the metal side forward,) so that's the configuration I used for the design and measurement.
This crossover is similar to the stock crossover in that it exhibits an impedance peak in the midrange.  With highish output impedance tube amplifiers this could skew the response.  The series crossovers that PG's crossover guy designs are all "textbook" electrical responses so the impedance variations are minimized.

That said, it still doesn't sound as good as a fully active crossover with the same alignment.

Cheers,

Dave.

[munosmario]

Yeah, that crossover sounds/measures the best, to me.  It's a standard parallel configuration (not series.)  I have my speakers turned "backwards" (with the metal side forward,) so that's the configuration I used for the design and measurement.
This crossover is similar to the stock crossover in that it exhibits an impedance peak in the midrange.  With highish output impedance tube amplifiers this could skew the response.  The series crossovers that PG's crossover guy designs are all "textbook" electrical responses so the impedance variations are minimized.

That said, it still doesn't sound as good as a fully active crossover with the same alignment.

Cheers,

Dave.

Davey, if i remember correctly, a few years back you were a proponent of passive line level X-overs (PLLXOs) when bi-amping certain Magnaplanar models and, accordingly you kindly provided design advice to several users. I have a close friend with several decades of upper high-end audio ownership experience, who benefited from your advice and has been extremely successful (to put it mildly) with a PLLXO you designed for him. Davey, putting aside the lack of flexibility--given that a PLLXO has to be designed for specific input impedances of amps being used and specific output impedance of preamp or source (plus insertion gain losses and balancing issues if bi-amping amps do not have same gain)--what is your current position on PLLXOs (with a bit of focus on Maggies, for the sake of this thread)?

munosmario

[stigs]

Yes the box is a humidor with the hinges built in. The component panel is a veneered piece of plywood heavily stained with about 20+ coats of rattle can lacquer. The panel is  a stock MMG rebuilt by me. The stands are temporary 2x4s to elevate and upright the panel until I design and build my frames ala Davey style. The Cardas Patented posts work great. As far as the Obbligato goes I have not tried anything else to compare it to. In photo 2 you can barely see my Rythmik F12SE sub covered by cat proof styrofoam next to my toes which really helps support the bass of the MMGs.
 I owe a dept of gratitude to all the people here and at the Asylum for giving me the confidence in going forth with my mods.

[Davey]

munosmario,

My current position is unchanged.  They're an excellent option.....and especially with Magnepan's since they can utilize fairly simple filtering.

They're easy to design, but like you say, not really flexible.

Cheers,

Dave.

[munosmario]

Thanks, Dave.

Mario