[doctor_worm]

Hello Everyone,

I'm just getting my feet wet trying to put together my first rig.  Iv'e been able to answer a majority of my own questions just by reading and digging through the wealth of information on this site.  OK to get down to it, here's my setup so far...  I've got a Pro-Ject Debut III (with Rega Mini phonostage and acryllic platter upgrade), an early 90's Yamaha DSP-3090 (class A amp) a pair of B&W 686's with matching stands.

The room size is faily large, not humungus.  I listen to mostly rock, Chuck Berry to Zappa, with some Soul, Punk, Funk and a little bit of Jazz here and there.  I sit at least 15ft away from my speakers, and they are about 1.5ft away from the wall (ported in rear).

Currently I have no sub, no DAC for a PC I have conencted and loaded with FLAC and high quality MP3's (mostly my ripped CD collection), and no high quality interconnects.

My questions:

1. Do I add a sub to the 686's?  OR Invest in some nice floor standing speakers.  I think I have a big enough room to properly utilize some nice floor speakers, I listen to a very wide variety of music and I really like to turn it up loud.  The sub I was looking at was the REL T5 ($600), but I only spent $400 on my 686's for the pair.

2. How much am I losing using $5 Radio shack interconnects and some $20 monster speaker wire?  Is it worth spending $100 or more on interconnects at my level?

3. I have a computer using onboard sound outputting to my Yamaha reciever.  Will I see a good improvement with a M2Tech HiFace (using coax) or will my monies be better spent on a nicer Arcam rDAC? 

I have done this whole thing on quite a budget, and I can't afford to get the DAC, Interconencts and Sub all at once, so what is more important or what will have a greater pronunciation to my ears?  I'm leaning towards a DAC since I have so much digital music that is not available or hard to find  ($$$) on vinyl and I would love for it to sound the way it should.  My favorite things to listen to is quality live recordings, I wanna bring the stage home to my living room.

This is my first post here, so thank you all in advance

[stlrman]

Welcome to AudioCircle!!
I built a pretty outstanding system based on the knowledge of the friendly folks here. I also read tons of reviews
before purchasing my equipment.
I will let the more experienced audiophiles help you out, but I will say that you are fine with your speaker wire and connects.
A sub can make a huge differnce to a system. There are a many fine dacs under $300.
I sit only about 8 to ten feet away from my speakers. 15 feet may be too far away depending on your room and speaker set up.
Best of luck to you ,
Todd

[eclein]

Welcome to AudioCircle!!
I built a pretty outstanding system based on the knowledge of the friendly folks here. I also read tons of reviews
before purchasing my equipment.
I will let the more experienced audiophiles help you out, but I will say that you are fine with your speaker wire and connects.
A sub can make a huge differnce to a system. There are a many fine dacs under $300.
I sit only about 8 to ten feet away from my speakers. 15 feet may be too far away depending on your room and speaker set up.
Best of luck to you ,
Todd

+1 on this entire statement- I was able to learn more here faster and my system sounds perfect to me right now!!!

[mcgsxr]

I would leave the interconnects for now for sure.

I don't hear you saying that you are a bass junkie, and that you perceive that your system lacks a lot in the bottom end.  So, I would recommend upgrading how the digital music hits your amp.

Some kind of usb DAC or ethernet based streaming solution.  Folks do like the interface you mention, and there are lots of digital front ends out there for 400-600.

[Nick77]

You will see a nice bump in sonics by improving your digital front. A Squeezebox Touch is a great low cost option and the analog out's are bearable until a DAC can be added.
Nothing wrong with getting better low cost interconnects, even AR or Bluejean cables would be a step up.
You might try giving the speakers a little more breathing room from the wall also.

[bunnyma357]

I've got a Yamaha DSP-A3090 as well in our family room system driving a pair of Allison CD9 speakers.

Looking at the specs for the B&W 686's they only have 5 inch woofers, so I think you would gain a lot with a subwoofer, it should add some weight and authority to the music and you might not have to crank the volume as loud to get the same perceived volume.

Your interconnects & wiring should be fine - I'm not a cable person - I've yet to hear a tangible difference between any cables that are in my price range, and to me money spent on other things provides more bang for the buck.

I believe the DSP-A3090 processes everything in the digital realm - I don't think it has an "Analog Direct" mode, so a DAC may not be the best thing for you - converting Digital to Analog, so that the Yamaha will convert the Analog back to Digital - The M2Tech may make more sense, getting a cleaner digital signal to the Yamaha.

One test I did was to hook up a component like a CD player to the Yamaha using both the analog and digital connectors and then listen to the Yamaha & switch between analog & digital and get a sense of what sounds better to you - the external DAC or the Yamaha internal DACs.  For me the digital input using the Yamaha DACs was far cleaner and more detailed, but felt "harsher". What I ended up doing was using digital inputs into the Yamaha, and I added a tube buffer between the preamp outs and the amp in to add some warmth back-in.

You'll get your best bang for the buck results with things like playing with speaker placement & seat positioning and then treating room issues as needed.


Jim C

[Ericus Rex]

If you can't swing really great floorstanders right now then go with the sub.  But I feel good floorstanders will beat out a sub/satellite system in your room.  You'll get cleaner sound if you add a high pass filter for the monitors (maybe the sub you choose will do that for you).  Don't even ask those 5 inch woofers to play below 70 or so hz and you'll get much cleaner midrange.  I feel you won't get the DAC's (or better ICs) full benefits until you upgrade to more resolving speakers.  So my vote is: 

1.  Save up for good floorstanders (or buy the sub if you won't be able to afford the floorstanders in the near future, and use a high pass x-over)

2.  Buy a decent DAC - but don't go crazy here.  Very good DACs can be had for under $400.

3. Buy decent ICs and speaker cables.  Again, don't go crazy.

BTW, you're probably getting heftier bass by positioning your speakers closer to the wall but you would get cleaner mids and highs and better imaging if you move them 4-5 feet from the back wall.  Let the sub handle the bass, move the monitors out and ROCK ON!!!!!!!

[eclein]

If you like the sound of your speakers great, just add a sub. I have found incredible freedom and flexibility with the Squeezebox products by Logitech. You can get help from a  whole bunch of folks here to tweak a SB into a very good digital transport. Its easy as I did it and that means anybody can.

Check out Cheap and Cheerful threads for inexpensive DACs if you decide thats your next move....nothing wrong with trying stuff entry level and then pursuing what really gets the sound right for you...Its all personal taste, yours, nobody elses. Be true to what you hear and not what reviewers do. Your ears are the bottom line!!!!!!

[doctor_worm]

Thanks for all the input!!  It really helps put things into perspective for me.

Some post I am not able to reply to, and I would really like to inquire about someone selling a modded SB3 on here.  This is the first time I have heard of anyone using a Squeeze Box in an audiophile setup and would be interested in knowing if it would be a noticeable difference to me just having a PC connected (1/8" mini jack out to RCA) to my Yamaha DSP-3090 and playing my FLAC files through Foobar?

Sorry for being so noobish, I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started all this.

[Tyson]

Speakers and source are the 2 most important pieces of gear when starting from scratch.  Fritz Speakers, GR Research, Salk, all make great speakers for a good price.  For source, I think the audiophileo stuff is pretty good and gives you hirez capability.  But I've been out of the source area for a while, so others can offer better advice here.

[vortrex]

once you get your hardware somewhat where you want it I would look into room treatments.  I got into this hobby last year and did a ton of upgrades, several times over (4 turntables in 2011!), but the biggest upgrade was some GIK bass traps and diffusers.

[roscoeiii]

Agree that source and speakers are key. There are many great DACs for not much money that will improve the sound you get from your computer. HRT Streamers, Schiit BitFrost, Musical Fidelity V-DAC all come to mind at under $500 dollars (HRT Streamer II is only $150).

So if you only have a little to spend, I'd get a DAC. If you are looking to make a more expensive upgrade, speakers all the way. Good recs above. Depending on your budget and room, sometimes you can get better sound from monitors and a sub (or 2) than from floorstanders. But that will depend on your budget and space.

[bunnyma357]

Thanks for all the input!!  It really helps put things into perspective for me.

Some post I am not able to reply to, and I would really like to inquire about someone selling a modded SB3 on here.  This is the first time I have heard of anyone using a Squeeze Box in an audiophile setup and would be interested in knowing if it would be a noticeable difference to me just having a PC connected (1/8" mini jack out to RCA) to my Yamaha DSP-3090 and playing my FLAC files through Foobar?

Sorry for being so noobish, I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started all this.

I use a Squeezebox and they are great sources - but, not a huge difference to using the PC (unless your PC is really loud). I'd think of it as a possible future upgrade - to be honest I use my Mac as a source a lot even though I have the SB available.

The 1/8" minijack is probably your weakest link - a cheap way to try out a Computer Interface is with this $20 box from ADSTech.

http://www.amazon.com/ADS-Technologies-RDX-150-EF-Instant-Music/dp/B00067TMGA

I use a these in a number of systems, and they are really nice for the price - they're limited to 44.1k sampling, but based on your description that shouldn't be a problem. It gives you USB to Analog and Optical Digital, so you can go digital or analog from PC to Yamaha.  It also goes the other way, so you can go from the Yamaha to PC, this allows you to digitize LP's, so you can listen to them on an iPod or in the car.

You would hook it up to the Yamaha in one of the tape loops.

I'm pretty sure these are discontinued, so the software is out of date, but they work great.


Jim C


* In looking at the reviews on Amazon, this ADS Tech unit may be more problematic to set up on a PC, on a Mac it just works - I've never had any issue with 3 different units.

[JLM]

Yes, source and speakers are the biggest factors in the overall sound.

Here’s a couple of good starter links for cheap DACs:

http://www.avguide.com/review/tas-194-budget-usb-dac-survey?page=2
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Firestone-Audio-Fubar-II-USB-DAC-Review

Logitech Squeeze Box or Touch are good options too and have more features.

I consider your speakers ill suited for your room/taste (not efficient, muddy/weak bass).  Frankly I'd start over.  Don’t know your budget, but here are some options:

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?t=0&products_id=972 ($400/pair floorstanders, about as cheap as your find for good bass)

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/axiom_m60ti.htm ($800/pair, good efficiency, balance sound, good bass, easy to place in room)

http://ascendacoustics.com/ (pick the one you can afford, great sound but you’ll need to look at the Sierra’s for serious bass – check our the trading post below)

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-090642071210-RF-62-Floorstanding-Loudspeaker/dp/tech-data/B000UW2312 ($700/pair floorstanders, these are great for rock in larger rooms)

[WC]

I use a Squeezebox and they are great sources - but, not a huge difference to using the PC (unless your PC is really loud). I'd think of it as a possible future upgrade - to be honest I use my Mac as a source a lot even though I have the SB available.

The 1/8" minijack is probably your weakest link - a cheap way to try out a Computer Interface is with this $20 box from ADSTech.

http://www.amazon.com/ADS-Technologies-RDX-150-EF-Instant-Music/dp/B00067TMGA

I use a these in a number of systems, and they are really nice for the price - they're limited to 44.1k sampling, but based on your description that shouldn't be a problem. It gives you USB to Analog and Optical Digital, so you can go digital or analog from PC to Yamaha.  It also goes the other way, so you can go from the Yamaha to PC, this allows you to digitize LP's, so you can listen to them on an iPod or in the car.

You would hook it up to the Yamaha in one of the tape loops.

I'm pretty sure these are discontinued, so the software is out of date, but they work great.


Jim C


* In looking at the reviews on Amazon, this ADS Tech unit may be more problematic to set up on a PC, on a Mac it just works - I've never had any issue with 3 different units.

Thanks for the pointer. I bought one since I was looking for a way to connect my computer to my stereo system. I have my Dell Hackitosh Netbook connected via USB to the box and Toslink to my Marantz SR6005 AVR. Sounds better than the CDs did connected to AVR via digital. All the stuff I currently have on my computer is lossless CD rips so this seems like it should work just fine. Haven't yet checked out the DAC or ADC capabilities of the device, but it works fine for me as a USB to SPDIF converter.

[wilsynet]

I've always found it was speakers then amplifier that made the biggest difference in sound.

[bunnyma357]

Thanks for the pointer. I bought one since I was looking for a way to connect my computer to my stereo system. I have my Dell Hackitosh Netbook connected via USB to the box and Toslink to my Marantz SR6005 AVR. Sounds better than the CDs did connected to AVR via digital. All the stuff I currently have on my computer is lossless CD rips so this seems like it should work just fine. Haven't yet checked out the DAC or ADC capabilities of the device, but it works fine for me as a USB to SPDIF converter.

Glad it's working for you, I've found them to be extremely flexible and useful and they offer a lot of bang for the buck.

Jim C