Teac Tripath - thoughts to date

mcgsxr · « **on:** 15 Jul 2004, 07:35 pm »

Firstly, the system.

Nakamichi CD4 as transport, feeding Monarchy SuperDip, feeding Bolder smART DIO with Bolder PSU, directly coupled to 1 Teac A-L700P, attached to my Totem Rokk speakers. I am using the L and R channels of this 3 channel amp, with the C channel idling, not fed signal at all. The Teac has volume controls per channel, that I have been using to modulate volume. These controls are on the rear of the unit, and it is less than ideal, but possible. There are two dedicated lines, and the transport and DIP are plugged into a Oneac conditioner. Cabling is Bolder, but for DIY CAT5e speaker cables.

The Teac replaces a Sugden A28B integrated, a unit that I have owned and enjoyed for 10 years now, said to have a warm, tubey presentation, and runs class A for the first 12-15 watts.

Hoisting the Sugden out, and dropping (well not DROPPING…) the Teac into place, I am stunned at how light that little 3 channel amp is. Featherweight!

I have run the unit for 24 hours straight, and then a couple of listening sessions since, but these really are initial impressions.

Music used for listening includes Cohen (10 New Songs), Krall (many), Clapton (unplugged), Pidgeon (The Raven), and assorted electronica.

The perceived positives - Increased detail, and a sense of increased definition of the different components of the music – each instrument is placed, and easy to follow. Electronica and this amp go together perfectly.

The perceived negatives - Less bass overall for sure. Perhaps a bit bright, but that could also be that the presentation is just more forward – cannot tell yet, and unsure if it will change with break in. There may also be less PrAT here.

The decision. Well, the Sugden is currently at my friend’s house, having an introduction to his system, possibly for sale, but we will see. Once we installed the integrated into his system, his DIY speakers really began to sing. Lush presentation, effortless detail (why am I replacing this amp again…) and a marked increase in musicality, versus the older Yamaha receiver it displaced.

I will continue to run the Teacs in as I can, but domestic life will inhibit prolonged, constant run-in, and I will continue to post my impressions of this 1 amp.

My intention is to passively biamp (horizontally for those interested) my Totem Rokk with 2 of these Teac amps, using 2 channels per amp, and idling 1. Once my preamp arrives, I will be able to experiment with this configuration, and will report any changes that brings – I did have it set up this way already, but trying to balance 4 tiny volume pots, on the rear of the amps, situated 8 feet from the listening spot overwhelmed me.

Sound a little underwhelmed? No, but I will not spout nonsense about a component, just because I have invested in 2 of them - as they run in, and if they change, I will report it. At present I am just enjoying the changes, and trying to decide if it is an overall improvement or not.

Mark in Canada

ABEX · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Jul 2004, 08:01 pm »

Did you change the Power Cords that come with the unit as someone else had told me that it matters with all these Digi Amps?

For $99 I would not expect them to outperform the Sudgen in all area's of playback. Wish I had speakers that were a bit more efficient as I would consider the TEAC's also.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jul 2004, 09:44 pm »

I have not yet performed any surgery at all, and will wait a couple of weeks to see where this goes, before doing that.

My speakers are only about 86db efficiency, so I am not even sure that they are the "right" match, but volume is not a problem at all.

True, for the meagre investment, the Teacs are great, and I expect that there will be improvements yet to come, with break in, and perhaps some power cord or conditioning management.

Mark

ABEX · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Jul 2004, 11:08 pm »

The TEAC does not have detachable Cords? It might be easier not having the receptacle as you can then just replace the cable and hardwire it in.

86db efficient,how loud are the sound levels using it?

Thanks!

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Jul 2004, 11:14 pm »

I think technically it can peak over 100db or so. AFAIK.

ABEX · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Jul 2004, 11:26 pm »

always thought power was over rated.LOL

mcgsxr · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Jul 2004, 10:45 pm »

As to how loud the peaks are, I am not sure, I don't own an SPL meter of any kind - right now, I am being mostly gentle with the volume, due to the awkwardness of lying down beside the rack, to adjust the 2 volumes on the rear of the amp - I should have 1 of the 2 preamps I have bought here next week, and that will facilitate a little more liberal use of the volume.

The power cord could be replaced (the amp does not have an IEC on the back, but I have one open at the moment, and it could be done - looks like the power cable ends in a strange looking plug (like an RJ45 or RJ11 for you fellow telecom folks) inside the amp, but I am not sure - I have never replaced anything like this before, so I will take cautious steps in how to best go about it, before diving in with the snips!

The treble sounds smoother today, and this afternoon, playing an odd Taiwanese cd I picked up in Taipei a couple of years ago, the female lead was wonderfully rich and defined.

Mark

mcgsxr · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Jul 2004, 06:57 pm »

I have received, and installed a B&K processor, as a preamp (can use a Direct mode, that bypasses all the surround options).

To this, I have hooked both Teac amps, passively biamping my Totem Rokks, though vertically at the moment (the L amp uses channels L and R to drive the tweet and mid of the L Totem - etc).

The bass has returned. One problem I was having, by using the gain pots on the Teac, was that I had to use extremely LOW gain, and I was not hearing bass at all.

By maxing the Teac gain pots (as per the owner's manual), and using the preamp to control volume, the sound is completely balanced, bass to treble.

I will report back tonight, on how the listening goes, the A/C is maxed at the moment, and my wife and daughter are at home.

I am now pleased with the balance of the sound, so it will be a question of how the inner detail, and resolution stand up to the previous Sugden amp, that really tell the tale.

Mark

mcgsxr · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 02:59 pm »

As is often the case with experimentation, I have run into another snag here. It would seem that my smART DIO had not been setup to reduce the volts from 7 down to 2.3 - I know, because my active preamp has been distorting wildly, when I use the DIO outputs, versus acting totally normal with the Nakamichi outputs.

My Sugden, the integrated before getting involved with this Tripath fun, DID drive the signal without distortion, but the CD player was MUCH louder than any other signal I put to it - more respect for that amp I used for 10 years, it is a great unit.

SO, I have posted my DIO off to Wayne, for a Mensa upgrade, and attenuation of the output volts down to 2.3. That will allow me to use my active preamp, with the DIO, which is the setup I desire.

That all said, I have been able to do some listening to the Teac combo, with the B&K preamp. It has a "Direct" mode, that sends the cd signal straight through, touched only by volume, balance etc - no processing of the signal for surround or anything - I like 2.1 listening, even for movies, but my wife likes 4.1 (phantom centre here).

Now, it is next to impossible to report on how the new setup compares directly to the old, so I won't even bother to try to do so - too many changes.

Do I like the Teac/B&K combo? Absolutely. It replays the variety of music that I like, doing a decent job of recreating the sound space I associate with each recording.

Does it replace the Sugden in every way? Doubtful, and since the resolution of the DIO is missing, it would be unfair to judge it.

I will keep this setup, and play with it in the coming months - I don't tend to be an equipment junkie, I tend to buy into sound I like, tweak it, then enjoy it for prolonged periods of time. My good friend is expressing interest in the Sugden, so I will be able to enjoy when I want anyway, and he gets a marked improvement in fidelity also.

I recommend this little Teac tripath, if you want to play with separates - I think the JVC or Panny are the simpler solutions, but I have not heard either of them.

Mark

mcgsxr · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jul 2004, 12:49 pm »

Sounded really nice last night, a smooth presentation from top to bottom, with the treble smoother than I have noticed in the last couple of weeks, playing with this pair of amps.

It could be two things - break in, as I understand it, all digital amps proceed smoother when the hours climb. It could also be that I strapped on a ferrite clamp on each amp's stock PC. I have read that these really leak RFI, so I figure these would not hurt. I have ordered a few more, to play with, and see if that changes anything.

This weekend, I hope to swap the PC with a DIY I had built to use with another component. It is cryo Belden 12g 83802, and should work well with these amps. I have had much assistance from Dmason, helping me to understand how he removed the stock PC, and soldered in a DIY solution. I will need to get out and buy another hospital grade Hubbell male plug, but that should be no problem.

Once those PC are on, I will try adding the ferrite clamps, and see what happens.

Also, on the suggestion of Dmason, I will investigate shielding the interior of the amps with tinfoil, again to reduce the RFI leakage issues.

I am missing the detail that my smART DIO brought to the table, and anticipating the positive changes that the Mensa will bring, once Wayne has done the upgrades. I predict that this will be a good combo, with the increased detail of the Mensa, working well with the slightly rolled top end of the Teac, with my Totems. Hmmn, perhaps I should pester Wayne for one of those inline Bybees...Here we go again!

My good friend has agreed to purchase the Sugden from me, so I am in this digital thing with both feet now!

Stay tuned, and please offer advice if your experience suggests a course of action with my Tripath amps, I am pleased to hear about the ideas and thoughts of others.

Mark in Canada

Anton K. · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jul 2004, 12:59 pm »

thanks for sharing, much appreciated!
Looking forward for further news from you.

albee · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Aug 2004, 03:39 am »

Just received my Teac two days ago and have been letting run for over 24 hours. So far, so good. It hasn't sounded overly warm in the midrange--which is the biggest complaint I have about the various tripath devices I've tried.

Keep us informed on your surgical manouvers.

beat · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Aug 2004, 04:33 am »

I must say,
I have enjoyed listening to mine. I always love bang for the buck. I swapped it out in a system I had set up with a bottlehead foreplay, nec transport, apogee dac, polk monitor 10s. It drove the speakers well.. As you said, short on bass but nice detail. Mine is still burning in too so I would like to see what happens in the next week or so. I think I will swap out the ac cable tomorrow and do the basic easy mods. Case dampening and what not. I'll let you know how it goes.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Aug 2004, 07:04 pm »

I have about 140 hours on the pair now, and the treble has relaxed. I was able to run them for 80 straight hours this weekend past, when we went up to cottage country. It sounds smoother now, then I remember.

The bass continues to be a little light, compared to my old Sugden, but that had a toroidal transformer in it, the size of a 1/4er pounder!

Wayne informs me that my Mensa is in the mail, on its way back to Canada, so in about 7 days I should begin the 150 hour burn in on that unit, and should have a much better idea about the inner detail and overall sound, once I get my DAC back.

I ended up not modding the PC yet, I was waiting for a 4 plex to be built. It is here, but now I am waiting to hear back from a modder in the States, who suggest that he can wave a wand over the Teac, and take it further.

I will continue to post here, as things develop, and welcome comments, and questions.

Mark in Canada

soundboy · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Aug 2004, 09:41 pm »

I am considering getting one of these TEAC amps for my system. Using my Cambridge Audio A500 integrated amp as a pre-amp and powering a pair of Energy Connesieur C-3s.

I wonder how the TEAC stack up to the Cambridge Audio?

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Aug 2004, 09:46 pm »

Shhhh, don't let Wodgy hear you!

mcgsxr · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Aug 2004, 09:50 pm »

Soundboy - what is the sensitivity of the Energy? Are they 8 ohm? What do you like about the Cambridge sound now?

Just fishing, before I can give ANY kind of answer, I have never heard the amp, or your speakers.

Mark

soundboy · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Aug 2004, 10:06 pm »

Mark,

Energy kind of tweaked the sensitivity specs for the Connesieur series; the C-3's are rated at 92 dB (2 speakers in a typical room). They are 8 ohm speakers, with a minimum of 4 ohms.

The Cambridge has always been a stop gap component on my way to a full separates system. By no means am I saying the Cambridge is not good; it's a great little integrated amp. Good power and control over the bass frequencies. But the TEAC is proving to be too tempting.

Since my system is located in a small den, and I don't play my music loud, the TEAC sounds like a good match.

ooheadsoo....

mcgsxr · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Aug 2004, 10:17 pm »

Thanks for the details, I will stride forward now, and make an ass of myself!

The Energys sound like a better match than my Totems, to be honest, since yours are an easier load, and higher sensitivity - good.

The Cambridge has a good rep - I doubt the Teac will match the integrated for bass control and fullness (my pair of Teacs falls short of my Sugden A28B in this department), but I have them in a largish (14x17) room, and use a sub, so that is a wash for me. I assume (dangerous I know...) that you are using your speakers near the back wall, so you might be better than me there also.

I will caution that you may find the treble of a new Teac a little strident - I did, and I too have metal domes tweets. Somewhere in the 100-130 hour mark, the treble really smoothed out, and now I can listen without fatigue.

The return on your C note is guaranteed to make you smile, and it can be paired with a variety of other things down the road. If you do get a Teac, think about running it in for a while, then give some thought to modding the PC, and layering tinfoil inside the chassis.

Good luck,

Mark

soundboy · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Aug 2004, 10:46 pm »

Thanks for the advice, Mark!

My den is probably a little smaller than your room. The Energy are mounted on a pair of Standesign 24" stands and about 12" away from the back wall. Regarding the possibily of not having enough bass, a small powered sub is always an option....although being on the second floor of a wooden building kind of makes me back off a little on the volume department.

I think the lurk of the TEAC, besides the price, is the ability to mix and match different components. While the Cambridge, with its pre-outs and detachable power cord, does give me that option as well, the idea of putting a tube pre-amp before the TEAC intrigue me.