Possible alternative to PC+Squeeze Box

zybar · « **on:** 21 Dec 2005, 01:09 pm »

This is a very interesting and positive review:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zero1/ti48.html

I realize that this product is more expensive than a fully modified SB2 + PC, and isn't as flexible, but it could be a choice for some.

Anyway, looking to see what others think.

George

lcrim · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Dec 2005, 08:19 pm »

PC audio with training wheels. Judging by the trials some were experiencing over on the Square Circle with configuring EAC and getting their SB3's to connect, maybe there is a market for for this device.
Three grand and you only get 240 gigs of storage, and it doesn't include a DAC. I wouldn't buy one.
I forgot, the reviewer was surprised that analog sounded better. And what is even more surprising to me is that the quality of digital playback through PC audio was news.

panomaniac · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 12:53 am »

It's the future, for sure. And I say Hurray! But $3K an no DAC? At all?
Prices will come down, for sure. Looks like a nice box, if it had some sort of analog out.

We'll see them at knocked off at Walmart soon enough.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 03:18 am »

About 4 years ago, there was a SONY mini system with speakers included which had a HD built in with it. It cost about $499 and it could store something like 100 CDs or more in its drive. Obviously, it must have been compressed in quality, but for what I remember, it clearly seem to me that it was the beginning of what is now rolling.

The machine here is overpriced.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 03:22 am »

Quote from: Bemopti123

About 4 years ago, there was a SONY mini system with speakers included which had a HD built in with it. It cost about $499 and it could store something like 100 CDs or more in its drive. Obviously, it must have been compressed in quality, but for what I remember, it clearly seem to me that it was the beginning of what is now rolling.

The machine here is overpriced.

Here is one that, IMHO, is not overpriced:

www.olive.us

The Symphony is $899.00 and seems well designed.

jakepunk · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 04:35 am »

It's not the future, it's the past. The Zero One looks exactly like what i had in 2003: a pretty HTPC case with a dinky LCD screen and a crummy remote. It was a bag of parts, and it didn't sound great.

I remember what Julian from Sedona Sky Sound said when he was installing some equipment at my house: "Wow, that thing is loud!" Who wants to hear fans and harddrives whirring from the listening position?

panomaniac · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 05:25 am »

Quote from: Vinnie R.

The Symphony is $899.00 and seems well designed.

Nice find, Vinnie. At 1st glance looks a lot better than the other machine.

Oh, BTW, I meant that HD servers are the future, not the Zero One, per se. All we gearheads here may be ahead of the curve, but Joe Public (me included) isn't yet.

brj · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 05:34 am »

Quote from: panomaniac

Quote from: Vinnie R.

The Symphony is $899.00 and seems well designed.

Nice find, Vinnie. At 1st glance looks a lot better than the other machine.

There are a few more details in this thread. It looks to be a very elegant unit, but the biggest catch is that they currently contain relatively small hard drives without supporting expansion options - either internally or via network attached storage. Via email, however, they indicated that they are looking at supporting such an option at a later date. The Linux based OS and the hardware used are certainly capable of it.

panomaniac · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 05:46 am »

Yeah, small hard drive, but plenty of other good stuff. I've just been digging thru the docs.
Says it will play files from you Mac or PC, also shoutcast. Will stream up to 5 rooms.

Oddly enough, the playlist software is only for Mac OSX. Good OS, but why not Windoze too?
(BTW I'm on this forum via MAC OS9, so odd operating systems don't scare me)

Worth further investigation, this unit.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 02:40 pm »

Quote from: brj

There are a few more details in this thread. It looks to be a very elegant unit, but the biggest catch is that they currently contain relatively small hard drives without supporting expansion options - either internally or via network attached storage. Via email, however, they indicated that they are looking at supporting such an option at a later date. The Linux based OS and the hardware used are certainly capable of it.

Yes, the internal HD is 80GB, but just like the Squeezebox, it is wireless and you can connect to your PC and stream files to it (ex. flac, wav).
Also, they mentioned that they will offer an external harddrive that will plug into the USB port on the back of the machine...

Most importantly, the audio quality of both the analog and digital outputs is VERY impressive!

MttBsh · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 04:03 pm »

For quite a while now many of us have looked to 6 Moons as the "underground" experts at recognizing price to performance ratio audio gems, the gear that never makes it onto the mainstream rags' radar for obvious reasons. Is 6 Moons losing its touch? This thread is evidence that at least in the case of the Ti48, it is.

To quote the reviewer, John Potis:"the Zero One Ti48 is a Blue Moon product if I’ve ever encountered one. Very well done, Zero One!"

Apparently John didn't do his homework if a product like the Symphony Olive is the machine to beat at 1/3 the price.

Vinnie, with all of your spare time maybe you could assume a role as 6 Moons new guy!

Matt

sts9fan · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 04:05 pm »

Well it seems logical to me. Three times the price quals 3XMoBetter

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 05:01 pm »

Quote from: MttBsh

Vinnie, with all of your spare time maybe you could assume a role as 6 Moons new guy!
...

Sure, I have nothing else here to do

Unlike the Zero-One, the Olive Symphony does not use fans, large ribbon cables to go from point A to point B, wires all over the place, etc. The board in the Symphony is very well laid-out:

This is a clean, German designed product. Notice how the linear power supply is located as far away from the mother board as possible. Note the use of all surface-mount devices (that's an IBM PowerPC processor chip on that board....a BGA, or "Ball Grid Array"). This design is super-clean and really impresses me. The analog output stage uses an Analog Devices DAC and Burr Brown Opamps (I believe OPA2134's), a transformer for the digital output, and it even has an analog input if you want to convert your LPs or other analog source to .wav or .flac....pretty cool. The CD drive is an RW, so you can burn music to CD for your commute to work. I can also connect my iPod to update it. So many features, so little time I guess... And no, I am NOT secretly working for Olive. I just think that for $899, their unit is a real value for all that you get and good for those who don't want to interface with a computer. I never heard the Zero-One so I cannot comment if it is worth the price. wonder if Slim Devices will come out with something similar?

In all fairness to 6moons, they will be reviewing the hifidelio unit (I believe Marja and Henk will do the review). I told Srajan that the hifidelio is the European (from Germany) version of the Olive, or should I say that the Olive is the North American version of the Hifidelio?

All I can say is that 2006 is going to be AWESOME... lots of goodies heading our way from all directions, and at more affordable prices than ever before...

Back to the dungeon for me... I wish I had more time to play with all these toys

DrRasta · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 09:49 pm »

I just spoke to Olive trying to get more information on their Musica.

They have some new products coming out soon.

The Sonatas will be out end of January. Hard drive backup (can only use their product) in February.

At CES will unveil new top secret product...told it was a "reciever" of sorts, digital amp, speakers (?), very evasive, but told to be "patient" and that it would not make anything they have obsolete.

Interesting....

BTW they will load 100 cds, not the entire hard drive.

srb · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 10:03 pm »

I also spoke on the phone with Olive and found out:

The only differences between the Music ($1100) and the Symphony ($900) are:

1. Hard drive size - 160GB vs. 80GB
2. RCA jacks - gold plated vs. not
3. 'Better' included RCA patch cable set!

I was told that the hard drive was not user upgradable, but I have heard that before on other equipment (which I upgraded).

I did find out that the Musica is available in Black, but they are not stating that on their website due to them awaiting a January shipment.

I am still on the fence because I would like an OSD, and their playlist software is apparently only for the MAC.

It sure is a clean looking design.

Folsom · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Dec 2005, 11:06 pm »

I hope you guys know you can make your own LCD display screen for that type of thing, as well as buy chassis, cases, that look like those.

You can build your own way cheaper, however the Symphony looks much better in my opinion.

However if I wanted to go all out SERIOUS.....

I would start with this, http://www.frozencpu.com/cas-208.html# and then add all the componets I wanted, then make a seperate LCD and chassis display for it. I could also make up a remote system etc, however I think just a cordless mouse would work well, so you can use Foobar2000. If I had to I would make a remote work with Foobar2000, that is if I was not just using the doslink out.

Feisal K · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Dec 2005, 02:05 am »

Quote from: Destroyer of Smiles.

However if I wanted to go all out SERIOUS.....

I would start with this, http://www.frozencpu.com/cas-208.html#

sure we can, but we want a audio component to at least make an attempt at looking like one, which the Musica does and would sit nicely in a audio component rack. Although the lines are blurring, i would not consider this an entry into the HTPC arena; more like a digital source component like a CD player

and if you think people don't care about looks - then check out the iPod sales.

Papajin · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Dec 2005, 07:14 am »

I'd might recommend something from these guys instead:

http://www.atechfabrication.com/HTPC_cases.htm

Prices are a bit more reasonable too.

Folsom · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Dec 2005, 09:19 am »

Quote from: Feisal K

Quote from: Destroyer of Smiles.

However if I wanted to go all out SERIOUS.....

I would start with this, http://www.frozencpu.com/cas-208.html#

sure we can, but we want a audio component to at least make an attempt at looking like one, which the Musica does and would sit nicely in a audio component rack. Although the lines are blurring, i would not consider this an entry into the HTPC arena; more like a digital source component like a CD player

and if you think people don't care about looks - then check out the iPod sales.

Well I suppose you could dress it up.... You say looks though; I have seen an awful lot of rack mount looking audio equipment too....

Perhaps you missed the point; the Zalman is FANLESS in all ways. It will never make a peep, but you can stuff it with hardware capable of doing any thing, unlike any thing else with no fans is capable of doing. Plus you can make it a hidden device, there is no reason why you could not put it on the other side of a wall behind your staging area, or behind an entertainment center or some thing. Even just setting it by the side of other stuff would be tolerable as opposed to opening it etc, while having remote control and drive access. Papajin the top one is close to the Zalman, but still has fans for options, the Zalman will never need one. The Zalman even has cooling for the hard drive, as well as a no compromise PSU that is fan-less but not a heat box.

The capability of building your own is precious or even building one starting with the Zalman and distributing... Fiber SPDIF, coaxil SPDIF, DVI and Analog, HD component, S-video, composite video, RCA, XLR, the inputs and outputs alone are worth a think.

As I said before, a zero compromise situation no holds bar, nothing but the best stuff. There is no one capable of making all of their own components to compete; the closest thing will be the PS3.

Looks are a plus; to be picky enough to turn things down no matter how good they are is silly. You listen to music or watch movies with this equipment, not stare at the component. This is beginning to sound like using a computer, well it is but you can make your own program and setup so it will all be automated, and leave you with nothing to worry about.

Feisal K, Ipod sales.... I am sure there is a graph based on audiophiles purchasing Ipods based on the level of cuteness, some where.

Feisal K · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Dec 2005, 10:02 am »

I suppose audiophiles will go for the Ti48, and the average music enthusiast may plump for a Musica instead; just like CD players - some will buy a Goldmund and the masses will buy a NAD, Rotel, Marantz and the like.