New member Intro - New to audio

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Taklit

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New member Intro - New to audio
« on: 1 Sep 2023, 02:53 am »
Hello everyone,

My name is Alexander, I am from the Bay Area in California. I live in a condo with a terrible layout for audio. Nevertheless, I have a put together a basic budget 2-channel system for myself to get started. The photo shows my front wall from just behind my listening position. I've marked up my soundstage in red. Not in frame is a large open area to he right. Additionally, the ceiling is not flat, and slopes up from 9 feet (top of front wall) all the way up to 15 feet into a vertical overhang just above POV of the photo, where the main entry door is.

I would like to start on some basic room treatment. Based on what I've read online, some sort of diffuser on top of the fireplace mantelpiece behind my television may be a good place to start? Would anyone be able to recommend something that I could possibly put together myself using my own tools and materials (to save on cost)? Other recommendations would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.




JLM

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Re: New member Intro - New to audio
« Reply #1 on: 1 Sep 2023, 03:27 pm »
Welcome!

What specifically are your complaints?  My first observations are the very close left side wall, followed by the TV/brick fireplace, then the rather large/low rack.  I'm a believer in super small gear/racks as anything solid blocks the soundstage.  Hard surfaces near the loudspeakers will unnaturally reflect sound.  I use GIK 244 absorption panels, but you may need to go with the thinner 242 to hang them on side/front walls.

Another solution would be to turn the monitors to be askew to the fireplace and move your prime listening spot to the right end of the couch.  Feel free to experiment.  This would somewhat relieve the close side wall issue but would be more of an audio answer than a A/V one. 

richidoo

Re: New member Intro - New to audio
« Reply #2 on: 1 Sep 2023, 03:44 pm »
Based on what I've read online, some sort of diffuser on top of the fireplace mantelpiece behind my television may be a good place to start? Would anyone be able to recommend something that I could possibly put together myself using my own tools and materials (to save on cost)? Other recommendations would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Hello Alexander, and Welcome to AudioCircle!

The flavor of the front wall reflections (diffused or direct) is further down the list of your room acoustics priorities, imo.

Wow, that's a terrible place for a stereo. Please try to move it to another wall, or another room in the house. Or just do it anyway, perfect the setup, then sell it later.

Problems with current location are numerous and serious. Fireplace hole is reflection cauldron. Lots of reflective bass support on left, none on right. Short sidewall reflection delay on left, long delay on right. You only need one sub, not two, to match SPL of small main speakers. You are sitting too far back. Reflex ports on mains prevent accurate phase integration with subs.

If you think you have absolutely no other option, or not willing to charge up the hill with your audiophile battle flag, then I suggest you build 2 temporary movable walls to improve the space you have been allotted. Materials and tools probably <$500. They would about 5-8 feet tall, connected together temporarily at a right angle to extend the front wall to the right, and form a small right side wall to restore balanced sidewall reflections and redirect some bass energy. Taller is better for bass, but 1-2 feet taller than the main speakers would be the minimum. Put a shelf board and painted trim along the top, paint to match house, hang pictures and plants, etc. The right stub wall should be 2-3 feet further out from the front than the front of speaker, so 3-4 feet. The front wall extension should be wide enough to allow your listening position to be comfortable, slightly elongated equilateral triangle. Ideal listening distance from 5-6" woofer is probably 6-8 feet.

Then:
Fill fireplace with FG pink insulation, cover with wood panel or fabric curtain for appearance.
Seal reflex ports on mains
Move left speaker into left corner as far as possible, almost touching front and side walls.
Move listening seat closer to front, and as far right as possible, considering it must be centered between right and left speakers.
Push left speaker far into corner as it will go. Place right speaker to form equilateral triangle with ears and left speaker.
Put a single sub in center, up on white shelf, so sub woofer is same distance to your ears as main speaker woofers.
Use only one sub.
If there is no temporary walls surrounding the right speaker, then you will have huge SPL discrepancy between the right and left main speakers. Cure this with balance control on your preamp/receiver so the image of vocalists are centered on your listening axis.
Adjust the sub plate amp controls to integrate with the sealed main speakers, or use receiver DSP settings to integrate sub. 
Start a new thread if you want details on manual sub integration if your sub has adjustment controls.
If your tube electronics have no balance control, you can make a DIY interconnect with balance control pot added.
Good luck!!

jpm

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Re: New member Intro - New to audio
« Reply #3 on: 1 Sep 2023, 03:58 pm »
Welcome!  On a positive note, your speakers are on stands at what looks like ear level and if you like your system at the moment there's plenty of upside potential to make improvements. The most important thing to remember is that this should be an enjoyable process, while likely to incur occasional frustrations, and to take time just to enjoy music whenever you can!

Tyson

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Re: New member Intro - New to audio
« Reply #4 on: 1 Sep 2023, 05:16 pm »
I'd do thick absorption on the side wall, then mount the TV to the wall above the fireplace.  Put some absorbers in front of the fireplace.  That's a high reflection area and the more you can damp it, the better.

GIK makes good stuff for a reasonable price, and good fit/finish.

Phil A

Re: New member Intro - New to audio
« Reply #5 on: 1 Sep 2023, 08:03 pm »
Welcome!

ArthurDent

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Re: New member Intro - New to audio
« Reply #6 on: 2 Sep 2023, 03:13 am »
Greetings & Welcome to AC Alexander   :thumb:

mresseguie

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Re: New member Intro - New to audio
« Reply #7 on: 2 Sep 2023, 06:17 am »
Alexander,

Great advice from the guys before me, so I won't add anything. I absolutely understand your pain because my first audio room in my house was in a much larger version of your space. Due to my inability to treat walls (dear wife said "NO!"), and horrible acoustics, I finally raised the white flag and moved everything into my home office. Though it wasn't ideal, but it was an improvement over the first room. Years of groveling on my knees and showering her with love, she finally relented and allowed me to move it into the living room where it remains to this day.

Hang in there. It will eventually get better.  :thumb:

Letitroll98

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Re: New member Intro - New to audio
« Reply #8 on: 3 Sep 2023, 11:58 am »
I assume because it's a condo moving the system to a better location isn't an option.  So I would start with simple and cheap.  For the TV buy one of those quilted moving blankets and fold it a few times so it hangs easily over the TV.  If that makes a difference for you, you can always buy or build a more effective solution at later date.  Left wall needs treatment and a lot of it.  Even a 4" thick wideband absorber won't fix all the issues of being so close to the side wall, but it will help a lot.   If it's possible to align the system on a diagonal from the corner do so, but I understand that might not be doable.  Regardless, move the speakers further out into the room, every couple of inches will make a difference, every foot will transform your system..  Diffusion isn't a bad idea at all, but it's the hardest diy project regarding room treatment, wood is heavy.  There are a number of plastic products that are easy to install and not too expensive.  If making diy absorbers use Roxull Safe'nSound, not fiberglass, as filler.  Best of luck, enjoy.