SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?

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lkc_boot

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« on: 10 Jun 2005, 05:27 am »
I have an SP1.7 and recently added 3 more channels to it (2.1 to 5.1 currently) using a bridged 4B-SST and a 2B-SST, but now am experiencing a problem...

When I am using a digital input, and a DTS source (DIGITAL/THX lit green and SGNL DTS 3/2.1 displayed on the unit), when the Source DVD switches tracks, the SP1.7 switches out of DTS for a brief moment (DIGITAL/THX/MODE lit, and DOLBY DIGITAL PLII/SGNL PCM 48k displayed).  This would not be a problem since it reverts back to DTS as soon as the signal is re-detected; however, I get a "snapping" sound on my rear speakers, and a less audible "snapping" sound on my center channel when it switches in and out of DTS mode (or any other digital mode).

I have connected the the new center and rear channel amps to a different breaker, and the problem persists.  Whenever I switch modes in DIGITAL, I get a fairly loud snap sound in the rears, and to a lesser extent the center channel.  I have put my ear up to the L/R channels, and the volume appears to be muted (the extremely low level hiss disappears completely) when switching from DTS to PLII.  However, the Center/Rear channels do not appear to be muted when switching.

Any suggestions?  I cringe in anticipation of the "snap" when I have to switch modes in Digital mode.  When I mute the SP1.7 and switch, there are no problems.   I tried switching the amps around, but no matter which amps are driving which channels, the snap occurs on the RS/LS/C channels.

System consists of SP1.7, L/R amps 7B-SSTs, C amp 4B-SST, RS/LS amp 2B-SST, source Esoteric DV-50s, sub Rel Brittania B2, and Balanced connections between SP1.7 and all amps.

BTW, I would never give up the SP1.7 - snap or no snap.  I am a 2-channel guy, and the analog section is so transparent compared to other pre-amp/surround processors I have used at comparable prices.  I am just venturing into the surround arena, but I still recall how quadraphonic sound played out...

Thanks for any help or suggestions - crazy or not!

Greg

georgev

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: 10 Jun 2005, 01:43 pm »
I remember reading a post regarding the same issue as you are having.  I believe that James Tanner recommended a OS upgrade on the SP1.7.  What OS version are you running?  The most current version is 44F.

thxultra

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: 10 Jun 2005, 11:51 pm »
i used to get a low level thump on the lfe channel when that happened using xlr connection.

Changed it to unbalanced connection and it dissapeared.

Do you use balanced connections?

lkc_boot

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: 12 Jun 2005, 12:11 am »
Thanks GeorgeV and THXULTRA for the responses.  I am using the current OS version (v44F is shown at initialization).  

I am also using balanced interconnects.  I have the amps placed near the speakers which are located in a fairly large room, and have fairly long runs of cable so I would prefer to stay balanced with long xlr cables and short speaker cables.

I will experiment a bit though and try out a pair of RCA interconnects to the rear amp.  I'll let you know what happens...

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Greg

georgev

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: 12 Jun 2005, 02:11 am »
Greg,

My setup is similar to yours in equipment, except that I use unbalanced connections between the preamp and power amps and I don't use a bridged amp.  I'm not experiencing any problems, thus you may want to try and replicate my setup.

I have a few questions:
1) Is your SP1.7 fairly new or has it been upgraded to V.44F?
2) Do you get the snapping sound when you switch between inputs (i.e. DVD to CD, etc)?
3) Are any of your amps hot to the touch after listening to the system for a while?
4) Do you have any kind of humming noises coming from your speakers?

Sorry for all the questions but I don't want to give you a wrong suggestion.

George.

brucek

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: 12 Jun 2005, 01:32 pm »
lkc_boot,

I think a small amount of chirp is normal before your DTS decoder detects the bitstream, but in your case perhaps you have a problem. I have an SP1.0 and all channels appear to mute during a switch (of any mode).

I think in general every manufacturer handles the problem of switching between bitstreams somewhat differently. My understanding is that in digital, the incoming SPDIF bitstream is constantly monitored so the decoders will know whether the appropriate decoding is PCM, AC-3 (2.0, 5.1 etc) or DTS of various flavors.

When the processors DSP's first receive or detect a change in the encoded material they immediately mute the volume controllers and the correct bitstream detection routines are enabled.  You sure don't want to hear what comes out your speakers while this nonsense is going on - it can be very damaging to the speakers in some cases.

But there's a tradeoff (as there always is in electronics). A manufacturer is perfectly capable of holding the mute long enough and combine it with a soft volume increase, but then everyone would be complaining they had to wait too long until their decoders locked onto the signal. Alternately, if the volume controller is un-muted too quickly you will get a digital chirp. So, while some manufacturers equipment seems to take forever for a "mode" change, others hedge their bets and you get that digital chirp. My SP1.0 appears to take care of it perfectly, in my opinion.

In your case it appears your main left and right channels are muting properly, but not your center or rears. You could check if the muting feature is working by doing the following:

Turn on all 5 channel amplifiers and put your SP1.7 in DVD (digital mode).
Put in a DVD that has a DTS sound track (gladiator etc) and get it playing. You can put the volume on very soft because your ear will be right against your tweeters.
Then press pause. The DVD will pause and the SP1.7 display shows "DETECT"  and all your five channels should be muted and the 'hiss' should be zero from all five channels.
Then press play and you'll see the video start, but the audio won't begin right away until the bitstream is detected and the volume controllers are unmuted. When they unmute, the hiss will be back and you should not notice any noise or chirp from any of the five channels on that transition. You'll need your ear right against the speaker(s) to accomplish this test. If your rear and center are chirping and your mains are not, I believe you've got a problem... :(

brucek

lkc_boot

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: 13 Jun 2005, 05:11 am »
brucek.  Thanks for the response.  I did exactly as you described, and I could hear the "hiss" mute completely in all 5 speakers (checked individually) while paused as it should.  This mute remained for a brief moment, while the DVD resumed and subsequently the DTS audio started again.  You're right -- this part works perfectly.

However I did get a popping noise in the SL,SR speakers when I pressed pause on the DVD.  The pause has the SP1.7 immediately drop out of DTS and into PLII 48k.  When I resume the DVD it switches back to DTS there is also another popping noise (like a single static discharge).

GeorgeV.  Thanks for your response too.  To answer your questions...
1) SP1.7 is new and came as V.44F.
2) Yes, the snapping sound occurs when I switch inputs, or surround modes or even engage mute.  Anything using 5 channels.
3) Nope, amps are not hot to touch - just warm after long useage.
4) No humming coming from the speakers.

Thanks.  Going to experiment a bit more....

lkc_boot

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: 13 Jun 2005, 05:21 am »
Did a little more experimenting.  I lied to you all.  Upon closer examination, the pop occurs...

-only from the surround channels (not the center as previously mentioned)  
-whenever I switch inputs that use the rear channels
-with other functions (mute, surround mode change, change from DTS->PLII and back when the SP1.7 is autodetecting, etc.).
-when I switch inputs quickly, the discharge is reduced in volume (like a capacitor that hasn't had time to charge completely)

This week I will (a) try unbalanced interconnects to the rear channels, and (b) hook up the 4B-SST in place of the 2B-SST on the rear channels and see if I still get the static discharge noise and try to remove the amp from the equation.  

I am starting to think that it may be related to the surround speaker wiring which is much longer then any of the other speaker cable runs.  If (a) or (b) doesn't work, I will address this speaker cable issue.

I will post after more experimenting....

georgev

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SP1.7 Issue - Any Suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: 13 Jun 2005, 03:57 pm »
Greg,

I think you are on the right path.  I does appear that the problem lies either with the rear cables or the rear amp.  Hopefully, it just a bad cable.