AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: sjsfiveo on 5 Sep 2021, 06:36 pm
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Super excited, can't wait to get mine. It's hard keeping a secret. Check the website for info on the new M speakers.
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https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/mseries
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Glad to see Clayton maintains confidence in the M100 driver!
Otherwise it looks like a modification to improve the bass in the M5s (which I own). Some sensitivity has been sacrificed in smaller models.
M3 looks about the same.
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So the takeaway for me from this line update is the benefits of two woofers in Open Baffle speakers versus one..
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It also looks like the X series now come with Gaia feet and the price has been accordingly bumped up.
Still a great value!
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Yep, been very difficult not to say anything on the forums about it.
I bought a pair of the M4's these some months ago knowing they were going to be produced. A bit nervous on how they will sound since none one auditioned them before. ( I've had all the specs in advance).
I am waiting for mine to be color sprayed with a chosen color. I need to fly a sample of it over to Clayton in order to ensure it is the correct color. Just been away and have not been able to get round to it. This will be done latest this week!
Hopefully they will sound stupendous! (By all accounts they will!).
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FranSSS,
I know the feeling I bought mine many months ago purely on Clayton's word, but I trust him. I've had X5's and it was my biggest regret selling those, greatest speaker I've owned. I reached out to Clayton with the idea of buying another pair of X5's and that's when he told me about the M4's so I decided to go that route.
Steve
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... I just don't know what to say. I'll keep most of my thoughts to myself right now, but I've gotta ask: does anyone know if they M100 are still crossover-less and still play down to the 500's?
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I suspect that coming out with a smaller, lighter, and easier to move/position unit (M6) will result in a lot of sales... :)
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So the sapphire driver will be approx. 9" higher on the M3 v. the M6. Curious how that might impact the sound in a medium-sized room.
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So the sapphire driver will be approx. 9" higher on the M3 v. the M6. Curious how that might impact the sound in a medium-sized room.
Part of that will be a function of how close you sit to the speakers. But the M100 is a high dispersion tweeter so that should help a bit.
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FranSSS,
I know the feeling I bought mine many months ago purely on Clayton's word, but I trust him. I've had X5's and it was my biggest regret selling those, greatest speaker I've owned. I reached out to Clayton with the idea of buying another pair of X5's and that's when he told me about the M4's so I decided to go that route.
Steve
Your review/comparison will be very interesting since you has the x5's before. BTW what did you replace them with?
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I got a pair of Magico A1's with a pair of REL sub's. I did this as I was looking to downsize my whole system and have regretted it ever since. Don't get me wrong the Magico's are A great speaker and I'm very happy with them I just miss the open baffle.
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A box speaker will sound like a closed-in box speaker, which will never change to us who have owned panels, electrostatic and Open Baffle speakers, there is no going back for long as Quad speakers folks say once you heard Quad eventually find your way back home, Open Baffle speakers can be added to that now also thanks to Clayton designs.
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A box speaker will sound like a closed-in box speaker, which will never change to us who have owned panels, electrostatic and Open Baffle speakers, there is no going back for long as Quad speakers folks say once you heard Quad eventually find your way back home, Open Baffle speakers can be added to that now also thanks to Clayton designs.
I moved from panels to a big, heavily-built MLTL. Not to say I won't return to panels or try OBs, but I've been happy with MLTLs for close to a decade now. Maybe I'm an exception.
The X Series do look appealing though...
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I moved from panels to a big, heavily-built MLTL. Not to say I won't return to panels or try OBs, but I've been happy with MLTLs for close to a decade now. Maybe I'm an exception.
The X Series do look appealing though...
If you like what you have that is great, it's a hobby with different tastes to sound as it should be. But once you live without a box speaker for a while, it is hard to go back. I loved my Dynaudio Confidence 5's could still be enjoying them in fact. But panels sound more open and coherent. Electrostatics more so due to their design.
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Clayton proves you can't quiet a curious mind. I saw the new webpage and thought, "oh shit, upgrades..." Having lived through the original M series upgrades, which were not inexpensive, I have to applaud Sockpit's sentiment about Clayton's continuing dedication to the M100 driver. And, it appears we lucked out for the time being with no upgrades. Not that I'm against upgrades at all. I applaud continuing R&D. Still, it's nice not to have to part with a chunk of dough having just completed the M3's break-in period. What a fabulous speaker!
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If you like what you have that is great, it's a hobby with different tastes to sound as it should be. But once you live without a box speaker for a while, it is hard to go back. I loved my Dynaudio Confidence 5's could still be enjoying them in fact. But panels sound more open and coherent. Electrostatics more so due to their design.
I guess my point is that I did not find it at all difficult moving from panels I owned for a decade to the MLTLs I have now owned for almost as long. I owned ported and sealed box speakers before moving to the panels. I appreciate and enjoy different approaches and don’t have trouble moving back and forth between fine examples of them. The BR speakers I’ve heard recently do have a hollowness that that took me a short while to become comfortable with.
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I guess my point is that I did not find it at all difficult moving from panels I owned for a decade to the MLTLs I have now owned for almost as long. I owned ported and sealed box speakers before moving to the panels. I appreciate and enjoy different approaches and don’t have trouble moving back and forth between fine examples of them. The BR speakers I’ve heard recently do have a hollowness that that took me a short while to become comfortable with.
What do MLTL and BR stand for?
Thanks.
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One question for Clayton regarding the M6 (and probably the M3 or M4 for that matter)...what are the options for feet that will work on a ceramic tile floor and allow the proper level of tilt for the speaker?
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What do MLTL and BR stand for?
Thanks.
Mass Loaded Transmission Line
Bass Reflex
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One question for Clayton regarding the M6 (and probably the M3 or M4 for that matter)...what are the options for feet that will work on a ceramic tile floor and allow the proper level of tilt for the speaker?
The speakers come with a dished disk that mated the cone tip to the tile floor. Third party options like Herbies footers will work is you use M6 threading.
Clayton
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Exciting to see new options. I've been holding off buying a M3/M5 for almost a year, because their 18" width was too much for my current setup. So having the slimmer models is exciting.
However, the M6's dual 10" woofers is less surface area than the outgoing M5's single 15" woofer. Clayton @spatial can you comment on this sonic tradeoff, if any?
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Bobby Bass, unfortunately you cannot have it both ways a thinner width and expect 15" woofers, having said that a well designed speaker with 10" woofers can go real low and shake the room, my Confidence 5's had 8" woofer and you could feel the bottom end, it all in the design and I am sure Clayton knows what he's doing and you will have enough low end to be happy.
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Exciting to see new options. I've been holding off buying a M3/M5 for almost a year, because their 18" width was too much for my current setup. So having the slimmer models is exciting.
However, the M6's dual 10" woofers is less surface area than the outgoing M5's single 15" woofer. Clayton @spatial can you comment on this sonic tradeoff, if any?
In a recent podcast, Ron at New Record Day mentioned that the M4 actually matches the M3 in the bass quite well. The M4's bigger than the M6, but smaller than the M3. Maybe something for you to look into.
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Good input. I dont expect smaller woofers to equal larger woofers for performance, at least not exactly, especially in bass. Clayton's published sensitivity numbers already reflect that.
Besides, I have multiple SVS subwoofers for bass. I would use them whether I purchased M3/4/5/6 Sapphires.
However my questions were more about how does the character of the M4/6 sound with their smaller woofers, compared to the 15" models? Since the woofers are handling everything below the tweeter (...586 hz IIRC?), there is a substantial role they play in mids and upper bass that could in theory affect how they sound. Just looking for experiences... if anyone has heard them yet.
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If the skinnier M4/6 sound similar or same to the M3's Ive heard, down to 80hz or so, that's a win/win to me.
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If the skinnier M4/6 sound similar or same to the M3's Ive heard, down to 80hz or so, that's a win/win to me.
Yes - the new models have the same sound character as the M3. They are just slightly lower sensitivity.
Clayton
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Having demoed the new M4s earlier this week, I must say they are impressive. To the point I cancelled my M3 order and went with the m4. I actually came away from the demo liking the m4s a little better. From what I can tell Clayton modeled the woofers off of the Beyma 12"BR70 https://usspeaker.com/beyma%2012BR70-1.htm (https://usspeaker.com/beyma%2012BR70-1.htm). Really great woofer for open baffle use, long xmax and very low distortion even into the Sub-bass. It does sacrifice efficiency for bass over the 15" Eminence Driver, but in my opinion the Beyma woofer plays a little cleaner in lower midrange and down then the eminence. And the m4s disappeared better then m3s. My one worry was bass quantity but they are very close, you're really splitting hairs with bass extension and amount between the two.
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Having demoed the new M4s earlier this week, I must say they are impressive. To the point I cancelled my M3 order and went with the m4. I actually came away from the demo liking the m4s a little better. From what I can tell Clayton modeled the woofers off of the Beyma 12"BR70 https://usspeaker.com/beyma%2012BR70-1.htm (https://usspeaker.com/beyma%2012BR70-1.htm). Really great woofer for open baffle use, long xmax and very low distortion even into the Sub-bass. It does sacrifice efficiency for bass over the 15" Eminence Driver, but in my opinion the Beyma woofer plays a little cleaner in lower midrange and down then the eminence. And the m4s disappeared better then m3s. My one worry was bass quantity but they are very close, you're really splitting hairs with bass extension and amount between the two.
Thanks for posting, I was thinking of getting the M3 and e-mailed Clayton yesterday with my room specs and he suggested the M4's would be a better fit. I have heard the M3's in person at Clayton's shop and really liked them, but the M4's were not hooked up for demo, I think you are helping make my decision a bit easier :-).
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Thanks for posting, I was thinking of getting the M3 and e-mailed Clayton yesterday with my room specs and he suggested the M4's would be a better fit. I have heard the M3's in person at Clayton's shop and really liked them, but the M4's were not hooked up for demo, I think you are helping make my decision a bit easier :-).
👍 happy to help, unless you have a big room I would choose the m4’s. The m3’s can be a little imposing size wise in a medium to small rooms.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229798)
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👍 happy to help, unless you have a big room I would choose the m4’s. The m3’s can be a little imposing size wise in a medium to small rooms.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229798)
The photo is helpful to illustrate the size differences. M4 seems smaller than expected- in a good way!
Clayton thanks for confirming the sound signature.
Will the M4 and M6's be packed and shipped in the same manner as the M3? One big box?
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The photo is helpful to illustrate the size differences. M4 seems smaller than expected- in a good way!
Clayton thanks for confirming the sound signature.
Will the M4 and M6's be packed and shipped in the same manner as the M3? One big box?
They will ship in one carton for each speaker.
Clayton
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👍 happy to help, unless you have a big room I would choose the m4’s. The m3’s can be a little imposing size wise in a medium to small rooms.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229798)
I auditioned the M-3 and M-4 speakers at the listening room in Utah (about 90 minutes on the M-3s and almost an hour on the M-4s) they were fed by Don Sachs tube amplification, streaming w/a Chord Mojo and anti cable speaker wires. Listening with both speakers was never less than enjoyable, but maybe a little soft at times. We heard less difference between the two models than expected, (the differences were damn close to imperceptible on several recordings). I don't know the break in status of either pair that we listened to, but we were told that the M-3 pair had more hours on them. I ordered a pair of M-4 speakers per Clayton's recommendation based on my puny (approximately 10'x13') room dimensions. I'm using a Resolution Audio Cantata 3.0 w/ onboard preamp (playing cds), a Coda 11 amp (100 watts, big transformer, lots of current, pure class A). Using Wywires silver interconnects and speaker cables and GR Research power cords. The M-4s have about 50 hours on them. Subjectively, right away there was more definition and more low end information here than I heard at the Spatial listening room with both the M-4 and the M-3 speakers. It's very easy to listen to this system for 2-3 hours at a stretch even though (i guess) the speakers have a long way to go before being fully broken in. I think it might be interesting to check out good solid state amplification and a good CD or turntable front end at the listening room in Utah. Recently checking out releases from ECM, Clean Feed, TUM, BMC (Budapest Music Center), Intakt, Tzadik, Intuition, Cuneiform, Moonjune and other labels that maintain high recording quality standards has been a real narcotic experience. I've rarely bought anything new or without auditioning it for awhile first. The M-4 was a gamble that so far has really paid off.
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I auditioned the M-3 and M-4 speakers at the listening room in Utah (about 90 minutes on the M-3s and almost an hour on the M-4s) they were fed by Don Sachs tube amplification, streaming w/a Chord Mojo and anti cable speaker wires. Listening with both speakers was never less than enjoyable, but maybe a little soft at times. We heard less difference between the two models than expected, (the differences were damn close to imperceptible on several recordings). I don't know the break in status of either pair that we listened to, but we were told that the M-3 pair had more hours on them. The M-4 was a gamble that so far has really paid off.
Nice to know there is little to choose. Clayton also said same to myself on the phone. :-) Glad the M4's are getting a great write up in general since i too await my set.
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Anyone has reviewed the smaller M6 Sapphire?
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Just placed my order this morning for a pair of Graphite M4's!