[RDavidson]

........I sure hope this isn't an ACer's auction.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotel-RX-1603-Monster-Receiver-Original-Box-genuine-barn-find-/251642456144?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a970f2850

[charmerci]

While it's certainly not funny, it's definitely a joke! 

[RDavidson]

Yeah. I wasn't exactly sure where to post this. It's so ridiculous, you have to just laugh it off. I mean, if this person had a perfectly preserved box to something truly classic, then I could see a collector or museum paying a bit.........but then they'd see the $200 shipping fee.

[mix4fix]

Most of the time, when I see someone auctioning of a box for something electronic, the intent is to trick people who don't read the comments to bid on what they think is the actual electronic item.

They outbid each other and the loser gets an empty box, pissed off that they got ripped off, and no recourse because the seller didn't do anything wrong.

[srb]

I can't imagine someone buying or bidding on an item without reading the ad.  If someone does get "tricked" on an empty box in that situation, they more than deserve it.  It's natural selection, you have to weed out the complete morons.

Steve

[mix4fix]

I can't imagine someone buying or bidding on an item without reading the ad.  If someone does get "tricked" on an empty box in that situation, they more than deserve it.  It's natural selection, you have to weed out the complete morons.

Steve

Crap like that comment pisses me off.

You are basically placing no blame on the criminal/placing blame on the victim.

[srb]

There is no "criminal" and no potential "victim" involved.  The ad was quite descriptive and explanatory and no attempt at fraud was made.

Steve

[mix4fix]

There is no "criminal" and no potential "victim" involved.  The ad was quite descriptive and explanatory and no attempt at fraud was made.

Steve

The whole point of the ad is to trick someone.

Who buys a box? I save my boxes. I have things I bought used and have no boxes. I will NEVER pay for a box. If I really needed to ship some thing, I will find alternative packaging. I save bubble-wrap-n-stuff from work.

Who sells a box? Someone who intends on finding that one person to think they are buying the item for $400. Anybody who doesn't see that is naïve.

Saying they deserve it because they didn't read the ad is a cop out. NOBODY deserves to be ripped off. I will never excuse the seller since that is his intent.

Natural selection is intended for several actions but not for miss-reading a for-sale ad. We can talk about how the un-washed masses are stupid for other reasons. But, I bet you that SOMEBODY here on this site has been tricked in the past.

[Letitroll98]

There is no "criminal" and no potential "victim" involved.  The ad was quite descriptive and explanatory and no attempt at fraud was made.

Steve

The attempt to defraud is implicit in the price, and the shipping quote fine print disclaimer.  The defense to the fraud charge is free speech.  The defense claim would be that the ad is a satirical comment on eBay seller practices that no reasonable person would take seriously, thus exempt from prosecution under free speech.  That the venue is eBay itself opens the seller to tort damages as the least sophisticated buyer could easily be misled into thinking the ad was legitimate, or was offering the actual amp for sale.  At least that's how I understand it from business law classes in college, perhaps an attorney here could comment.

[rodge827]

The attempt to defraud is implicit in the price, and the shipping quote fine print disclaimer.  The defense to the fraud charge is free speech.  The defense claim would be that the ad is a satirical comment on eBay seller practices that no reasonable person would take seriously, thus exempt from prosecution under free speech.  That the venue is eBay itself opens the seller to tort damages as the least sophisticated buyer could easily be misled into thinking the ad was legitimate, or was offering the actual amp for sale.  At least that's how I understand it from business law classes in college, perhaps an attorney here could comment.

Not a lawyer, but Caveat Emptor...Buyer beware!

[Bizarroterl]

Doesn't the description state "7.5~8 on 10 Rotel RX-1603 empty original box (with interior supports and foams of course). "?

And if you read down it discusses the shipping - not that it is $200 but that is what ebay calculates and the seller will assist in getting a true rate.


Much ado about nothing.

[mix4fix]

The attempt to defraud is implicit in the price, and the shipping quote fine print disclaimer.  The defense to the fraud charge is free speech.  The defense claim would be that the ad is a satirical comment on eBay seller practices that no reasonable person would take seriously, thus exempt from prosecution under free speech.  That the venue is eBay itself opens the seller to tort damages as the least sophisticated buyer could easily be misled into thinking the ad was legitimate, or was offering the actual amp for sale.  At least that's how I understand it from business law classes in college, perhaps an attorney here could comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R11iPoDB_Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv16VGYy_m8

[mix4fix]

Doesn't the description state "7.5~8 on 10 Rotel RX-1603 empty original box (with interior supports and foams of course). "?

And if you read down it discusses the shipping - not that it is $200 but that is what ebay calculates and the seller will assist in getting a true rate.

The intent is to trick the person to buy what they think is an item inside that box.

If it's just the box, it needs to say "box only" in the title. And, you don't need to go on about the receiver if it is only an empty box. It's trickery to make buyers believe that you are selling the receiver.

[Kenneth Patchen]

Perhaps the exorbitant price for an empty box is indicative of the latest, growing Audiophile obsession: box upgraditis!

[RDavidson]

Whoa. I left for awhile and things got serious.

Here's my view: If someone plans to pay a significant sum of money for something, one would think that this person would be sure they understand what they're paying for. I agree the ad is somewhat misleading,  but the information about the item isn't hidden nor in fine print. If someone just uses the Buy It Now option without reading, I think it'd be hard to fault the seller, if the buyer feels tricked.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I can't imagine someone buying or bidding on an item without reading the ad.  If someone does get "tricked" on an empty box in that situation, they more than deserve it.  It's natural selection, you have to weed out the complete morons.

Steve

The seller has a 100% rating with zero negative feedback for the past 12 months.
There are no photos of a Rotel, just 12 pictures of an "Empty original box". In the descriptin of the item, the entire first paragraph gives detail on how it came about that the sale is just for the box. He specifically targets audiophiles that have the actual electronic piece of equipment and states {quote}....."and seeing as the 1603 is becoming even more scarce than it was then, I figured it would be fun to offer it up for someone who really wants to complete their 'kit'. This box is now probably more rare than an actual RX1603 so let's see if anyone is willing to compliment their receiver with such detail"
The last paragraph states {quote} "Ignore listing shipping amounts which are completely inaccurate" and blames Ebay for the lack of options.

The thing that makes me shake my head the most is, Number One...somebody would spend what appears to be $599 without reading the entire ad, and the fact it's a damned empty box. The number two thing that makes this even worse, is the fact that folks arguing that the seller is doing somethign dishonest haven't read the auction description.

So, "buyer beware",.....no...."Buyer pay attention".

Is this guy trying to make an unreasonable $600 on an empty box, well hell yea he his. Obviously.
But he hasn't done anything wrong. He just knows audiophiles are very good at spending stupid amounts of money on silly crap, and sometimes do it without paying attention to what they're doing.
But if you have a Rotel RX1603 and need the OE box, then here's your opportunity to get one. For $600 

[JP78]

(IMHO, of course)

I don't think the seller is misleading at all, and fully believes the box is worth $400.   I see a near mint condition RX-1603 without original box on eBay for $1600 with 14 watchers and 3 offers - this leads me to believe this price is now fair market value.

A quick Google for this same receiver shows the pricing to have been $1000 two years ago for near mint - this receiver seems to be appreciating in value at a decent rate.

I would imagine then if a collector has a mint version with all accessories and box he may be able to get $2500 in a couple years down the road.

Also, If a seller does not know how to package an item and takes a receiver this large and and heavy to his local pack-n-ship store they will charge $60-80 just for packaging.

Original Marantz boxes for model 7, 8, 9 do sell for a couple hundred dollars.

So I would guess the price is high for 2014, but the box is certainly worth something today.  I wouldn't be surprised if fair market value for the box is a couple hundred dollars.

Best,

[srb]

This listing was ended by the seller because the item [Rotel RX-1603 Original Box] is no longer available.

It's just as well, lest some poor AudioCircle "victim" gets "tricked".  Or do you think that maybe .......... ? 

Steve

[Letitroll98]

It's just as well, lest some poor AudioCircle "victim" gets "tricked".  Or do you think that maybe .......... ? 

Steve

I can't wait till it arrives.