AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: cdj on 18 Aug 2008, 09:04 pm
-
I 'm considering the Wyred4Sound digital amps for my SongTowers but am not sure which model. I listen to jazz, guitar and piano solos, vocals in the line of Diana Krall and Rebecca Pidgeon, at moderate levels.
With my Parasound HCA2200MkII and P/LD 2000 (385W into 4ohms) I rarely go above the 10 o'clock setting on the preamp dial.
The ST250 is rated at 195W into 4ohms; the ST500 is rated at 550W into 4ohms. Since the SongTowers have an 80 - 200W SS amp recommendation, the ST250 seems to fit. The ST500 would have MEGA headroom. The ST250 is $500 less than the ST500, that's a lot of new CDs.
Your thoughts, insights, recommendations are much appreciated. :D
-
Hold off a tad. Let me wring out these SX1000's for a few days. They just arrived today.
-
Id like to hear what you think too. So many Class D amps popping out of the woodwork.
Mike :D
-
Hold off a tad. Let me wring out these SX1000's for a few days. They just arrived today.
SX1000'S?? -NIIICE.
I have been seriously considering their stereo version...
Please keep in mind, those ice amps have especially long break in time, like hundreds of hours. I have the cullen modded ps audio c-100. I am really happy with this, but the wyred units look to be even better.
-Tony
-
I bought the new SX200 monos. Thry're still in the break-in period. I ran them full range for about 25 hours. Right now I'm using them to power the woofers on my RM40's. Once I get enough hours on them i'll run them full range again and write a review. Even at this point I would recommend them to anyone looking for SS amps to bi-amp. They're very fast, and run very cool. One thing I'm sure about is that the 200 watts into 4 ohms is plenty for me.
-
I am not sure what will change in these amps as time is put on. I have them running continuously and will go back to listening in 4 or 5 days (schedule is too whacked this week.)
Right now after just 2 hours last night I'd say they are very interesting from the knees up. My references are recent amps like the Sunfire and Pass and previous Class D's like the PS Audios and Rowlands. These amps after 2 hours are not smooth but very much in your face crystal clear. I'm a little confused on whether I like them or not or perhaps they are so true I am not accustomed to that truth.
Basic soundstage width and depth are okay. Delineation of instruments is good. Vocals are clear. My biggest complaint so far is lack of bass. Compared to Rowland 201s the Wyreds are crisper from the knees up but they have about the same bass output. It's there but not nearly as thorough as the Sunfire and maybe even less than the Pass. I am hoping this will right itself. I sent an email off to Rick Cullen to inquire as to what I could expect for changes over time.
My inclination is that the amp would smooth out but not dig deeper with more hours. This may be a paradigm with non-Class D amps I have, but if it does not portray magic across the spectrum at minute one I don't have much hope it will miracuously correct itself. We'll see.
I only winced once on one high note so that's a positive (I guess). But overall the amps are downright fun so far. Coupled with the ribbon tweeter there is no lack of high frequency extension. If I had the bass of the Sunfire I'd be even more excited that these may settle down a skosh and smooth out some of the sound. I'm not ready to comment on soulfulness of the music yet. Given that the frequency extensions are primary to accomplish and expected, and if that occurs, then whether or not the amps are musical matters most.
I'm going to try one on my center channel speaker in the HT this weekend to see what that brings as well.
-
Big Red Machine,
My initial impressions after a few hours are almost the exact opposite of yours. I couldn't be happier with the bass but I find the mids and highs, especially voices, to be detailed but kind of recessed and veiled. My rerference is the Atma-sphere M60.
Howard
-
I have a D-Sonic Magnum 2000-5 driving my HT3's, center and surrounds, in a word awesome. This amp is manufactured by Cullen the same outfit that makes Wyred. If I had known about Wyred I probably would have bought it at the time because of upgraded parts etc. but no regrets here.
By the way I do all my listening using a Anthem D2 with ARC(Anthem Room Correction) being fed by a squeezebox modified by ART with a CI power supply.
-
Big Red,
Try flipping your speaker terminal connections. Maybe you are out of phase/polarity, not sure which. I did this and bass that was missing, returned.
Mike
-
Big Red,
Try flipping your speaker terminal connections. Maybe you are out of phase/polarity, not sure which. I did this and bass that was missing, returned.
Mike
Funny you should say that. I doubled checked the wiring last night after one Regina Spektor song that should have rattled the room and it seemed as if one woofer was moving in while the other side woofer was moving out. Just like an out of phase issue. But I had red as positive and black as negative on both amps using balanced inputs. I'll check it again tonight and try single ended hook-ups.
-
By the way I do all my listening using a Anthem D2 with ARC(Anthem Room Correction) being fed by a squeezebox modified by ART with a CI power supply.
The Sept. '08 issue of Stereophile has a review of the D2, they like the ARC feature a lot.
-
Rick says it is possible that the XLR connection has reversed the phase so I will check that tonight by switching the inputs and then using SE connections.
-
Rick says it is possible that the XLR connection has reversed the phase so I will check that tonight by switching the inputs and then using SE connections.
I had an amp that had the left channel connected to binding posts correctly and the right channel reversed (internally). Couldn't believe it at the time, but the amp did sound very strange.
-
It was about 10 PM last night and my eyelids were getting droopy so I bailed. But thinking back the sound was not entirely pinpointed and that woofer motion caused me to grab the flashlight and my spectacles to inspect the wiring which was "correct". Can't wait to get home and rewire it to see what I get. If the bass comes on, this could be a hoot. :beer:
-
Hmmm... this could be interesting aa
Mark
-
Bass is starting to come on. Definitely more musical with the balanced pre outs than the single ended. No phase changes.
-
I appreciate all the info posted. I didn't expect my post to generate such an enjoyable and informative thread. Looking forward to further posts, I've especially enjoyed your posts Big Red Machine! :D
-
I left the system running while I'm in Cleveland today and tomorrow to put more hours on the amps.
-
72 hours and counting and still looking good. Full frequency range now. I have more of the aggressive top end I wanted from the Pass. These amps are more my style so far. I'm going to let them run for another week and pile on the hours so I can evaluate the sound with total breakin.
-
I dunno. I shouldn't say anything, but this is driving me a little wacky. What exactly are you breaking in? Resistors? Capaictors? IC's? And what exactly is the scientific basis for thinking there is anything to break in? And do you really think you can compare what you're hearing after 70 hours with what you heard after one hour? That would require a very carefully designed controlled experiment with two identical amplifers and speakers, one amp with 70 hours of use, and the other with one. Obviously we're all entitled to our opinion, and everyone has a right to report those opinions, but in the end sound reproduction is a science. And I hope we're all willing to take those opinions with several grains of kosher salt. Let's see-- I think the flame suit is in the master bedroom closet. Better check.
-
I dunno. I shouldn't say anything, but this is driving me a little wacky. What exactly are you breaking in? Resistors? Capaictors? IC's? And what exactly is the scientific basis for thinking there is anything to break in? And do you really think you can compare what you're hearing after 70 hours with what you heard after one hour? That would require a very carefully designed controlled experiment with two identical amplifers and speakers, one amp with 70 hours of use, and the other with one. Obviously we're all entitled to our opinion, and everyone has a right to report those opinions, but in the end sound reproduction is a science. And I hope we're all willing to take those opinions with several grains of kosher salt. Let's see-- I think the flame suit is in the master bedroom closet. Better check.
I'm with you. Way to many variables to claim these type of differences and I'm not directing my comment at BRM but all those that claim to hear all thes changes with electronic break in. What changes is mood, psychology, background noise, blood sugar, stress, anticipation, etc.
-
This kind of talk... - just looking for an argument? Have anything to contribute to the subject of these particular amplifiers?
-Tony
-
I dunno. I shouldn't say anything, but this is driving me a little wacky. What exactly are you breaking in? Resistors? Capaictors? IC's? And what exactly is the scientific basis for thinking there is anything to break in? And do you really think you can compare what you're hearing after 70 hours with what you heard after one hour? That would require a very carefully designed controlled experiment with two identical amplifers and speakers, one amp with 70 hours of use, and the other with one. Obviously we're all entitled to our opinion, and everyone has a right to report those opinions, but in the end sound reproduction is a science. And I hope we're all willing to take those opinions with several grains of kosher salt. Let's see-- I think the flame suit is in the master bedroom closet. Better check.
I'd say the sound after 72 hours is about what the sound was at 24 hours. I was gone for 48 hours. It sounds about the same as I can remember 48 hours prior. But here's a straightforward example considering I NEVER believed in breakin before: On the Regina Spektor track Fidelity, when I first listened to it my chair didn't vibrate and the room wasn't full of bass as I was accustomed to; now my chair practically levitates and the room is chock full of deep bass notes. Something changed. Don't know what but I certainly like the fullness now. The top end is about the same as it was at the beginning. This tune and all the tunes I have repeating I am very familiar with so when improvements occur I can pick them up. Will the sound change any more from here on out, or can I even tell it does, don't know. Did it really only take 24 hours to stabilize? Maybe it was 3 hours and that occurred after I went to bed after the first 2 hours. But I can assure you it got much better and specifically in the bass regions which was my earliest complaint (I would offer that added bass is easier to detect than subtle changes in high frequencies). These amps are the real deal to me and the value they present is ridiculous compared to the multi-thousand dollar amps I have had in here. I trust my ears (and the seat of my pants).
-
I dunno. I shouldn't say anything, but this is driving me a little wacky. What exactly are you breaking in? Resistors? Capaictors? IC's? And what exactly is the scientific basis for thinking there is anything to break in? And do you really think you can compare what you're hearing after 70 hours with what you heard after one hour? That would require a very carefully designed controlled experiment with two identical amplifers and speakers, one amp with 70 hours of use, and the other with one. Obviously we're all entitled to our opinion, and everyone has a right to report those opinions, but in the end sound reproduction is a science. And I hope we're all willing to take those opinions with several grains of kosher salt. Let's see-- I think the flame suit is in the master bedroom closet. Better check.
I'd say the sound after 72 hours is about what the sound was at 24 hours. I was gone for 48 hours. It sounds about the same as I can remember 48 hours prior. But here's a straightforward example considering I NEVER believed in breakin before: On the Regina Spektor track Fidelity, when I first listened to it my chair didn't vibrate and the room wasn't full of bass as I was accustomed to; now my chair practically levitates and the room is chock full of deep bass notes. Something changed. Don't know what but I certainly like the fullness now. The top end is about the same as it was at the beginning. This tune and all the tunes I have repeating I am very familiar with so when improvements occur I can pick them up. Will the sound change any more from here on out, or can I even tell it does, don't know. Did it really only take 24 hours to stabilize? Maybe it was 3 hours and that occurred after I went to bed after the first 2 hours. But I can assure you it got much better and specifically in the bass regions which was my earliest complaint (I would offer that added bass is easier to detect than subtle changes in high frequencies). These amps are the real deal to me and the value they present is ridiculous compared to the multi-thousand dollar amps I have had in here. I trust my ears (and the seat of my pants).
BRM,
Thank you for sharing your review and experience with these amps. I do appreciate it and these seem to be some very high value amplifiers!
Great purchase!
-
I trust my ears (and the seat of my pants).
Tyson just started a thread about those who appreciate music (and equipment) in the "head", "heart" or "gut." Seems he should have included "seat of the pants" as well.
The cat's out of the bag, Pete. You're an ass man!
Chad
-
Well, I still don't believe in the general proposition of break-in, and I've never seen a rigorous basis for it, but if the seat vibrates, the seat vibrates. I think there is probably something else going on here, since I doubt that the amplifier was designed using only components that had been broken infor long hours. It still sounds like some kind of phase issue. But I'm not going to take on a vibrating chair. Sounds dangerous.
-
I have to side with Dennis when he says "…sound reproduction is a science". We are all entitled to our opinions and we all have the right to report our opinions and observations. But it seems wrong to me when an opinion or a personal observation describing amplifier break-in is reported as if it were a scientifically determined fact. I don't believe the poster meant his words to be taken as scientific fact, but his choice of words can make it seem like that to some readers. In a forum like this, there are many readers with backgrounds and experience that vary widely. It is easy for less experienced readers to believe that an opinion is actually a widely recognized fact.
Here are several examples from Big Red Machine. I'm not picking on you, but I am using your words to illustrate my point:I'd say the sound after 72 hours is about what the sound was at 24 hours.… It sounds about the same as I can remember 48 hours prior.
BRM states this as one man's experience rather than as broad fact. That's a step in the right direction, and it is much better than some earlier statements. Still I wonder how well he or anyone else can distinguish differences in what he heard in two sessions separated by 48 hours. There are scientific methods that can help determine this. They can be time consuming and boring and I doubt if BRM did them. I know I don't want to. The best thing to say is to state that it is personal opinion, which he does here.
On the Regina Spektor track Fidelity, when I first listened to it my chair didn't vibrate and the room wasn't full of bass as I was accustomed to; now my chair practically levitates and the room is chock full of deep bass notes. Something changed. Don't know what but I certainly like the fullness now.
This is better. It is clearly worded as personal experience – except for the "my chair practically levitates" part – but I'll let that go :green:. I've heard of room resonances, but maybe chair resonance is a first :thumb:.
The top end is about the same as it was at the beginning. This tune and all the tunes I have repeating I am very familiar with so when improvements occur I can pick them up.
How reliably can you or anyone else pick these up? Again, this is measurable, but unless you’ve done those measurements, don't say what improvements you can pick up. It would be better to say, "the top end seems about the same as it was at the beginning, but I can't say this for certain".
I think you get my drift here. There are easy ways to say, "This is my observation" or "This is my opinion based on my own experience" that avoid misleading unsuspecting readers into believing that something is scientifically determined and accepted as fact by many others.
-
I didn't really mean to take the big machine on like that. I think people realize he's expressing an opinion. I guess amplifier talk in general drives me crazy--just like sports talk does. I guess it's because I'm not any good at either one. I listen to one amp, and it sounds like the other amp. I listen to one speaker, and it never sounds like the other speaker. I'm just not an amplifier-type guy. So I'll stay out of amp threads in the future.
-
- - - little stock in this forum; fmtrvt on others.
I picked up a W4S 5 channel the other week while I'm waiting for my JC-1s to show up. This is to replace a Parasound A21, which replaced Emotiva MPS-1.
I did not like the first hour with this amp. I acquired it from another AV123 member who also has Ref 3s and stated it had very strong in bass, the reason I was going for JC-1s. In my system it does, but I feel the top end to be a little thin (note - using RCA connectors). In one review of the W4S amps, the writer stated he thought the amp needed to warm up. So I did that for a full day, and when coming back to it I thought it improved. With some more time, I don't find any difference with warm-up.
I'm still not sure if I like this in my system. The amp has great clarity, more so then the two amps that preceded it. But I'm all SS, while the previous owner had tubes in front of it. The JC-1s are scheduled to arrive on Monday, so next week should be interesting for me.
-
i've owned an ice powered amp before (av reality ear mono pyramids), and fell in love with the sound only after i inserted a tubed preamplifier. as far as means to an end go, i really appreciate the elegance of icepower on paper. as good as it is, i've never found an involvement factor to fall in love with from a digital or solid-state amplifier without a tubed (single ended) preamplifier and/or tubed output source.
maybe it makes me a toob guy, but the control of digital sources + the bloom of tubes = heaven. what's the associated equipment big red?
best of luck, and i look forward to your thoughts.
jp
-
I have to side with Dennis when he says "…sound reproduction is a science". We are all entitled to our opinions and we all have the right to report our opinions and observations. But it seems wrong to me when an opinion or a personal observation describing amplifier break-in is reported as if it were a scientifically determined fact.
big red is making a statement that his seat is shaking now when it previously wasn't before due to no other changes in his system except time spent running. if we're going to be cut and dry about it, then per scientific fact and logic you can either:
a) believe his statements as the truth
b) believe his statements are not the truth (i.e. false)
c) find some bs way to rationlize his statements as not-true but somehow respectfully valid thus wasting bytes and virtual ink.
making respectful high-brow arguments about the validity of scientific method here is otherwise pointless for the sake of furthering discussion.
finally, in a hobby where personal preference is equal to scientific validity, scientific validity alone is not a suitable judge. you would not be encompassing all the variables of the equation of satisfaction; mainly the continuously changing variable of what appeals to the individual listener.
-
I've had the SX200's running the woofers on my VMPS RM40's and I have to say that I've experienced some pretty scary room resonances in the past couple of days. I can definitely vouch for their bass output but I found the bass output very impressive right out of the box. I'm using Atma-Spher M60's on top and the couple of times (last time after about 50 hours). I tried the SX200s full range I didn't feel they measured up to the M60's on top.
As for the break-in comtroversy, the owners manual said the amps require 300 hours of break-in. I'm going to send them an email asking if they can explain what happens during the process.
-
Some of you want to make this a scientific discussion. I don't. Something happened after hour 2. I have left these running in the same set-up for 4 days now and left my Modwright on the whole time using the SB and a long Playlist.
If the amp didn't change then I would have sent them back by now. If you read my posts you will see that there was no bass to speak of at first. I did reconnect the cables several times and did switch the XLR/RCA switch commensurate with the cable changes and while I didn't notice any added bass (I was dissapointed, but hopeful from the start) I found the XLR outputs with higher gain played more effortlessly and had more body to the music than the SE connections.
I'm not really a break-in believer, especially with speakers beyond 10 minutes of play, so I was surprised these amps did improve enough to the point that I am keeping them and may buy another for the HT center channel after I experiment there on my 4 ohm V Monster Center (we're talking potential for 1000 watts here!).
So don't pick apart my words or attempt to get me to write differently. That's not gonna happen. System synergy is always key and I am pretty excited with how these sound now and I'm pushing for the 300 hours Rick suggests just so the complainers here can't say I didn't give them enough "time". Rick did not help me understand what might change over time. But you have to understand I am not sitting in front of the speaker for the continual 300 hours. If I'm lucky I get an hour every other day. I don't expect any more changes, but I'm open to all possibilities since I'm in no hurry to send them back.
And yes, I would recommend a tube pre with SS amps everyday BTW. in case you're wondering.
-
I've had the SX200's running the woofers on my VMPS RM40's and I have to say that I've experienced some pretty scary room resonances in the past couple of days. I can definitely vouch for their bass output but I found the bass output very impressive right out of the box. I'm using Atma-Spher M60's on top and the couple of times (last time after about 50 hours). I tried the SX200s full range I didn't feel they measured up to the M60's on top.
As for the break-in comtroversy, the owners manual said the amps require 300 hours of break-in. I'm going to send them an email asking if they can explain what happens during the process.
Very few amps period will match the M60's when properly matched to an appropriate speaker. aa
George
-
I am pretty excited with how these sound now
There's what matters most... carry on, BRM. :thumb:
-
Just for kicks, the temperature of the top cases are 79 F and the side vents are 83 F. In comparison, the top of my tube preamp is 93 after almost 5 solid days of playing music.
-
Just for kicks, the temperature of the top cases are 79 F and the side vents are 83 F. In comparison, the top of my tube preamp is 93 after almost 5 solid days of playing music.
I just checked my system after about ten hours non-stop. The Wyred4Sound amps are room temperature. Not even the vents have any sign of heat coming from them. The Atma-Sphere M60's are about 110 degees from 3 three feet away.
I'm really beginning to like this combo.
-
I'm graduated from Georgia Tech with a EE degree many years ago. Among other courses, I took analog courses including one on amplifier design. I too cannot fully understand (short term) amp break in other than all electronic components are spec'd with a tolerance such as (examples) resistors with +/- 5% tolerance, caps with +/- 20% tolerance, etc. All component have tolerances that varies with voltage, current, temperature, age, etc. That might explain at some level this amp break in phenomenon. Possibly more likely, Big Red switched to the dual differential balanced inputs which have additional gain than the single ended inputs.
Dennis: please NEVER shy away from expressing your opinion. Anyone that is familiar with your skills, experience, and reputation, should minimally listen and give your opinions serious consideration. I know I do.
I didn't really mean to take the big machine on like that. I think people realize he's expressing an opinion. I guess amplifier talk in general drives me crazy--just like sports talk does. I guess it's because I'm not any good at either one. I listen to one amp, and it sounds like the other amp. I listen to one speaker, and it never sounds like the other speaker. I'm just not an amplifier-type guy. So I'll stay out of amp threads in the future.
-
Found this review on Audiogon:
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=df7c5tcg_0ctrptmf6
-
Pete - thanks for posting the review link, I have a few questions as the next project for me is to bi-amp my HT3's and the W4S range could be a great opportunity to do this. I'm currently using a 500 watt/channel Musical Fidelity amp and consider that HT3's come alive with a strong amp, particularly driving the super fast and deep digging woofer. I love my HT3's and feel that it's possible to wring even more performance out of them by taking the bi-amp route.
So, are your comments on the W4S based on their performance with the HT3's and, have you considered them for bi-amping?
Thanks
Phil
-
Pete - thanks for posting the review link, I have a few questions as the next project for me is to bi-amp my HT3's and the W4S range could be a great opportunity to do this. I'm currently using a 500 watt/channel Musical Fidelity amp and consider that HT3's come alive with a strong amp, particularly driving the super fast and deep digging woofer. I love my HT3's and feel that it's possible to wring even more performance out of them by taking the bi-amp route.
So, are your comments on the W4S based on their performance with the HT3's and, have you considered them for bi-amping?
Thanks
Phil
Yes, HT3 use.
I am bi-wiring because I can. But bi-amping with the Wyreds wouldn't seem like an advantage unless you tried the more "tubelike" module mentioned in the review for the top end if you were after a more tubey sound. Otherwise I would just use 2 monos or a stereo amp of the 500 watt size. They can crank up in a hurry if you need volume, that is. Why not try a 500 watt'r and see how you like it and them decide if the top end is what you want with SS or tubes?
-
Good find, Pete.
I’ve been leaving the amp on all of the time – it’s draws so little power.
The reviewer and I the same experience, including listening to Hole Cole’s Temptation. And I also listened to Harp music and noticed the same details mentioned about the guitar characteristics. He has much better writing skills then I do so I won’t further comment on the amp. As I stated previously, if you have tubes in front of it I think you’d be in great shape.
I don’t know why this thread keeps getting drawn back into a “break-in” debate, but that should be done elsewhere. I didn’t before I got my Esoteric SA-60, but even they (TEAC) recommend break-in, and in fact, an IsoTek CD designed to accelerate it.
-
288 hours :weights:
-
288 hours :weights:
And?
-
288 hours :weights:
And?
Pretty freekin' sweet actually. I'm very impressed and when I say that you need to know I never expected to be. I expected mediocrity at best and these amps do music the way I like it. So surprise to me!
-
hey big red,
just wondering have u had a chance to hear odyssey amps yet?
keep us updated on these wyred amps please! am i correct in assuming these are a fraction of the cost of the pass labs?
-
Found this review on Audiogon:
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=df7c5tcg_0ctrptmf6
As the author of that review, I should note it was a draft, and the final published review appears now in the September 2008 issue of Affordable Audio which you can download for free.
-
I expected mediocrity at best and these amps do music the way I like it. So surprise to me! Same for me,except I expected the best and got mediocrity and digital didn't do the music a bit of good.
-
Check out the Tec-On 55 review in Affordable Audio as well. The Wyred4Sound 200 amp is mentioned as a comparison.
-
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred/monos.html
New review of the SX1000 monoblocks
-
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred/monos.html
New review of the SX1000 monoblocks
Nice review. Pete, are you still enjoying the Wyred 4 Sound monos now that you have passed the 300 hour mark? The reason I ask is that I am very interested in them b/c I have Strata Minis and Paul Candy's review describes excellent synergy with the Wyred 4 Sound amps. I suspected that might be the case as the minis are power hogs and 86 db sensitivity, but its always good to hear from someone who actually lives with the amps in their system for awhile. I am trying to decide whether to upgrade my Odyssey amp or go with Wyred 4 Sound. Since I have never owned an ICE amp, any further info. would be appreciated, especially as Wyred doesn't appear to have a trial period yet.
-
I still enjoy the amps. They are dead quiet, have no idiosyncracies except I hated the speaker terminals (and changed them myself with some $15 Parts Express models). There is a pair on Agon right now for 1800. I tried to pry one of them out of his hands for the center channel in the HT! If I could swing it I would buy a 7 channel Wyred for my HT - 3x500, 4x250!!! yowser
The only amp I am still curious to try is a Spectron. Either way, with my power hungry speakers, having 500+ watts is satisfying.
BTW, I have not found the amps to be sensitive to power cabling. I am actually using my homemade jumbo hoses on them now.
-
Thanks, Pete. Looks like the Agon pair are still available. Hmm...I wonder if the wife will notice if the amp suddenly changes from all black to silver and black and from one box to two? :scratch:
-
I still enjoy the amps. They are dead quiet, have no idiosyncracies except I hated the speaker terminals (and changed them myself with some $15 Parts Express models). There is a pair on Agon right now for 1800. I tried to pry one of them out of his hands for the center channel in the HT! If I could swing it I would buy a 7 channel Wyred for my HT - 3x500, 4x250!!! yowser
The only amp I am still curious to try is a Spectron. Either way, with my power hungry speakers, having 500+ watts is satisfying.
BTW, I have not found the amps to be sensitive to power cabling. I am actually using my homemade jumbo hoses on them now.
Do we get to see your jumbo hose, Pete? :o :lol:
I am glad that the Wyred amps are still making you grin. I'm looking into them myself, actually. I'd also be interested in what your thoughts are on the Spectron amps (if you go that route). Rydenfan at AVS seems to love his.
-
Thanks, Pete. Looks like the Agon pair are still available. Hmm...I wonder if the wife will notice if the amp suddenly changes from all black to silver and black and from one box to two? :scratch:
I beat you to it. I bought them and another one to power the front 3 of my HT!! Can't have enough power!! :flame: :weights:
-
Thanks, Pete. Looks like the Agon pair are still available. Hmm...I wonder if the wife will notice if the amp suddenly changes from all black to silver and black and from one box to two? :scratch:
I beat you to it. I bought them and another one to power the front 3 of my HT!! Can't have enough power!! :flame: :weights:
Congrats, Pete, those looked like a pretty nice deal! :thumb: I'm jealous. :green: Circumstances prevented me from bidding on those amps anyway right now, but at least they're getting a good home. Let us know how they work out as home theater amps. Do you have a Salk HT?
Edit: I just saw your equipment in your Sanctum HT, so I guess that answers my questions about the Salks. :duh:
-
V3's
http://alhull.com/room7v2/
-
What happened to the Pass Lab amp??
V3's
http://alhull.com/room7v2/
-
Long gone! WHere have you been.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38863)
-
At first I thought it was gone, but then I still saw it in your pictures, so I'm confused.... so this Wyred4Sound really blow the Passlab out of the water huh?? aa
Long gone! WHere have you been.
-
Pete
Not to derail the thread, but what is your new power conditioner?
Mark
-
At first I thought it was gone, but then I still saw it in your pictures, so I'm confused.... so this Wyred4Sound really blow the Passlab out of the water huh?? aa
Long gone! WHere have you been.
I own 5 of them now if that says anything.
-
Pete
Not to derail the thread, but what is your new power conditioner?
Mark
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=57939.0
-
hope you like them BRM. i am also a fan, switching to a pair of the W4S stereo amps (less boxes) and going to switch my speakers to emerald physics CS2's.
-
nothing to add, couldn't find the delete button :duh:
-
nothing to add, couldn't find the delete button :duh:
Does this statement add value?
-
I recently moved from Thiel CS1.6s driven by a Pass Labs X-250 to the Emerald Physics CS-2s with Wyred4Sound (ST-250 for the HF and ST-1000 for the LF).
All I can say is WOW!!
I used the Pass for LF duty while waiting for the ST-1000. The W4S units are fantastic in my opinion, outperform the Pass. They seem quicker and more detailed with plenty of dynamics. And I don't have to run my A/C just to cool the room!!
Suffice it to say, I'll be posting my Pass for sale (along with my Thiels).
:D
-
Is the ST1000 pretty much the same amps as mono SX1000's, other than two boxes, power cords etc for the SX?
-
I recently moved from Thiel CS1.6s driven by a Pass Labs X-250 to the Emerald Physics CS-2s with Wyred4Sound (ST-250 for the HF and ST-1000 for the LF).
All I can say is WOW!!
I used the Pass for LF duty while waiting for the ST-1000. The W4S units are fantastic in my opinion, outperform the Pass. They seem quicker and more detailed with plenty of dynamics. And I don't have to run my A/C just to cool the room!!
Suffice it to say, I'll be posting my Pass for sale (along with my Thiels).
:D
I think I already know the question based on what you've said, but how do you like those Emerald Physics speakers? I haven't read one bad impression of them yet.
-
BRM,
I see your new power box in the thread above - did you decide against using the Audience aR1p conditioners and just go with upgraded power cords? You have a really nice system.
Thanks,
Bill
-
I recently moved from Thiel CS1.6s driven by a Pass Labs X-250 to the Emerald Physics CS-2s with Wyred4Sound (ST-250 for the HF and ST-1000 for the LF).
All I can say is WOW!!
I used the Pass for LF duty while waiting for the ST-1000. The W4S units are fantastic in my opinion, outperform the Pass. They seem quicker and more detailed with plenty of dynamics. And I don't have to run my A/C just to cool the room!!
Suffice it to say, I'll be posting my Pass for sale (along with my Thiels).
:D
I think I already know the question based on what you've said, but how do you like those Emerald Physics speakers? I haven't read one bad impression of them yet.
I purchased the CS2s based solely on the reviews and after several conversations with Walter Liederman. I think they're fantastic. . .the reviews don't lie.
-
BRM,
I see your new power box in the thread above - did you decide against using the Audience aR1p conditioners and just go with upgraded power cords? You have a really nice system.
Thanks,
Bill
Every time I try power conditioning, it seems to degrade the sound or not help any so I pull out the gizmos and find it to my liking. So now I use the box and eventually I'll build myself more ribbon power cables.
Wait till you see my new Purity preamp being built!
-
Another great review:
http://www.10audio.com/wyred4sound_st1000.htm
-
I firmly believe that HT3's require quality and quantity watts in order to excel, and considered that this was only available at a price. One of my local retailers told me that customers wanting to improve the performance of their system came into the store with the opening line 'I want to buy better speakers'. He would do a house call and invariably sell them a new source and new amps, nothing wrong with the speakers.
With the advent of the Wyred4Sound amps, and BRM being enthusiastic about them, they clearly represent a great opportunity of driving a quality speaker with quality/quantity watts at a low cost.
Having talked to Jim recently it got me thinking again:
Is it better to use 2 x 500 watts (monoblocs or 2 channel), or a multichannel W4S with 2x500 watts and 2xX?. In the later option the 500 watt amp driving the woofers and X being either 125 or 250 watts.
Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this?
-
I forgot what it was, but the monoamps have a slight advantage over the stereo amps. EJ posted it once in their AVS thread. It is minor, but enough that us audiophools would prefer that config. I see no issue in biamping, but I have to tell you the SX1000's are all you need to drive the HT3's. I can try the bi amping thing after my GTG as I have 3 sets of outputs on my preamp; 2 high and 1 low. And some of those attenuating Rothwell connectors if need be. I believe the monos are actually closer to 600 watts output. The website has never really been updated.
BTW, Rick says their new preamp will be pretty special with his custom designed no noise volume control. But no tubes to roll in that! I still may give it a whirl.
If I did get a multichannel amp I would break each channel in on a full range connection for the 300 hours so that each was fully ready to go into battle. Certainly the upper ranges will not work very hard as the demand is much lower, but breaking it in that way could take forever and perhaps turn someone off if the bass cleaned up and the top end didn't. I know Dennis has a hard time with this breakin idea, but the sound most definitely changed for the better after the first 20 hours and then slightly more after that. I think it is the dielectric breakin more than anything of the components.
-
I am assuming you are still running the Wyred monos on your HT3's?
-
I am assuming you are still running the Wyred monos on your HT3's?
Never sounded better. I own 7 of their amps now. Five of them are in the theater.
-
I am assuming you are still running the Wyred monos on your HT3's?
Never sounded better. I own 7 of their amps now. Five of them are in the theater.
Wow, that is quite a statement :thumb: I cannot remember so forgive me if it has been asked and answered before, did you try other Class D amps on the HT3's? if so, how do these differ?
-
I am assuming you are still running the Wyred monos on your HT3's?
Never sounded better. I own 7 of their amps now. Five of them are in the theater.
Bigred
Did you replace the Pass Labs amp you had with a Wyred4Sound?
Which Pass Labs stereo amp did you have? The Wyred is better?
Thanks.
-
I am assuming you are still running the Wyred monos on your HT3's?
Never sounded better. I own 7 of their amps now. Five of them are in the theater.
Wow, that is quite a statement :thumb: I cannot remember so forgive me if it has been asked and answered before, did you try other Class D amps on the HT3's? if so, how do these differ?
PS AUdio and Rowland. Both had limitations in reproducing certain frequencies and were disappointing. Rowland had no bass but great midrange and the PSA were shrill and wimpy at the same time.
-
I am assuming you are still running the Wyred monos on your HT3's?
Never sounded better. I own 7 of their amps now. Five of them are in the theater.
Bigred
Did you replace the Pass Labs amp you had with a Wyred4Sound?
Which Pass Labs stereo amp did you have? The Wyred is better?
Thanks.
X350.5 Nice but too polite. The Wyreds are far better in my system - more bass, more top end, more beef all around. You have to understand that Rick Cullen really knows what he is doing with these circuits.
-
Pete...
...more bass, more top end, more beef all around.
Where's the beef.... :jester:
Pete....Looks like you are finally identifying the sound that you really seek... 8)
-
Pete...
...more bass, more top end, more beef all around.
Where's the beef.... :jester:
Pete....Looks like you are finally identifying the sound that you really seek... 8)
At this point I need better speakers to move farther out on the curve.
-
At this point I need better speakers to move farther out on the curve.
Oh oh.... :o
-
You coming out Saturday?
At this point I need better speakers to move farther out on the curve.
[/quote]
Oh oh.... :o
[/quote]
-
Pete...
...more bass, more top end, more beef all around.
Where's the beef.... :jester:
Pete....Looks like you are finally identifying the sound that you really seek... 8)
At this point I need better speakers to move farther out on the curve.
Please tell me you are kidding. You never let up on Jim do you. Some of us still need to have speakers finished. :D
-
So what are the issues of running these amps single-ended vs balanced? I happen to like my tube preamp but it is not balanced. Is all the "magic" lost if I don't use a balanced setup?
Andy
-
No. SE is fine. I found them quieter in balanced mode moreso due to the cabling than anything. I barely have any semblence of any hiss at all from the speakers when the system is on. Practically zip when my ear is right up on the tweeter.
-
I've still been considering the W4S amps with my HT3s. This weekend a friend lent me a BelCanto Evo4 mkll amp to try. I have to say I am quite impressed. It really made the HT3s come alive in a way I haven't heard. I'm running the amp SE in bridged mode so the specs say to expect 400w into 8ohms. It has a very bouncy, quick (pratty) sound. I'm using a tube pre and tube output disc player with it.
Regarding the W4S amps, would it be better to try the sx1000 and bi-wire to the terminals on the HT3 or get a 4 channel version and bi-amp the speakers? I'd lean to the larger amp as I have no experience with bi-amping.
Andy