[oldmp3]

Interested to know how and if members are using a subwoofer with their SongTowers.  I've been using my subwoofer only for HT and not for 2 channel listening.  If you are using a subwoofer, what do you set the crossover at?

Thanks.

[TJHUB]

I have a pair of HT2-TLs and I use a sub for music and HT.  I listened with and without a sub for about a month and a half and every time I switched back to using the sub, I liked the sound more.

It is however VERY important to use a quality sub and it ABSOLUTELY MUST be EQ'd in some way.  For me, I used to use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer, but just recently I was able to use the built-in parametric EQ in my SVS PB13-Ultra.  Low frequencies are very affected by the room your speakers are in, and EQ'ing a sub is about the only way I can achieve a flat frequency response using my analog preamp.

Here's my bottom end: 



One note:  I do have a rather large room at ~6,500cF with a large opening to my dining room.   

[Mr_Superstar]

I use the SongSub along with my SongTower's for everything. I cross over to the sub at 80hz.

[audiocrazy]

I use SVS PB2+ subwoofer xovered at 80Hz.
Recently I added SVS-EQ1 and it's been awesome since then. The bass is very controlled both for music and HT.

[Nuance]

I use dual DIY TC2000 15" sealed subwoofers.  The ST's are rated conservatively, and go lower than 42Hz.  But a subwoofer fills in the bottom octave, and its a must for me. 

[fsimms]

I tried my friend's SongTowers with my SVS sub crossed over at 80 Hz at my condo and also crossed them over  at his place too with a cheap $150 Sony sub at his place with his Denon receiver.   It helped the sound at both places.   I think taking some of the low stuff off of the midrange helps.

Bob

[oldmp3]

Thank you all for your responses.  I'm now experimenting with the subwoofer on 2 channel music.  Also trying out Room EQ Wizard (REW) to measure room responses.  If you don't know about this already, check out http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/forum on Home Theater Shack.

[poseidonsvoice]

I use dual DIY TC2000 15" sealed subwoofers.  The ST's are rated conservatively, and go lower than 42Hz.  But a subwoofer fills in the bottom octave, and its a must for me.

  My hats off to you for an extremely complete, thorough and detailed review of all the loudspeakers you auditioned prior to arriving at your current favourite. A very enjoyable read.

Anand.

[Nuance]

Thank you all for your responses.  I'm now experimenting with the subwoofer on 2 channel music.  Also trying out Room EQ Wizard (REW) to measure room responses.  If you don't know about this already, check out http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/forum on Home Theater Shack.

Terrific idea.  I look forward to seeing your graphs. 

My hats off to you for an extremely complete, thorough and detailed review of all the loudspeakers you auditioned prior to arriving at your current favourite. A very enjoyable read.

Anand.

Thank you.  I didn't include all of the speakers I auditioned, but I didn't start the thread until a year after I had started.  Maybe one day I will add the others.  Anyway, thanks again.

[RadioWonder]

For a cheap and fun way to improve the sound of your subwoofer,remove the glass fuse and polish the metal ends with your favorite metal polish.

If you have a few extra dollars to spend replace the stock fuse with an audiophile grade fuse for a bigger sonic improvement.
I use IsoClean fuses in my two systems.
http://www.vhaudio.com/fuses.html#isoclean

[Stylus]

I have my SongTowers in a strictly 2 channel setup and have experimented with an older Energy 10? sub with generally disappointing results.  The best use of this I have found is crossed over low (40Hz) with the SongTowers playing full range.  Crossed over higher and it is painfully apparent that the sub cannot keep up with the SongTowers.  I am sure a better sub would yield very different results.

I have also worked with REW, great software.  I was able to get a very flat frequency response with the sub, but unfortunately, that does not tell the whole story.  The graph won?t show that the bass is slow and lacking in definition, that still takes ears.

I guess all I am trying to say, if you are going to use a sub with the SongTowers, make sure it is a good one.

[oldmp3]

I have my SongTowers in a strictly 2 channel setup and have experimented with an older Energy 10? sub with generally disappointing results.  The best use of this I have found is crossed over low (40Hz) with the SongTowers playing full range.  Crossed over higher and it is painfully apparent that the sub cannot keep up with the SongTowers.  I am sure a better sub would yield very different results.

I have also worked with REW, great software.  I was able to get a very flat frequency response with the sub, but unfortunately, that does not tell the whole story.  The graph won?t show that the bass is slow and lacking in definition, that still takes ears.

I guess all I am trying to say, if you are going to use a sub with the SongTowers, make sure it is a good one.

Yes, I'm hoping to replace my old PSB Alpha Subsonic 5 with a Songsub in the future.    Wondering about the custom Rythmik options with the Songsub... ?

[Nuance]

The Rythmik options are good.  I personally like the Rythmik subs, so don't hesitate if you're leaning that way.  Also, Jim now offers (through Rythmik) a dual passive subwoofer.  I bet that will sound awesome!

[Alexdad54]

The Rythmik options are good.  I personally like the Rythmik subs, so don't hesitate if you're leaning that way.  Also, Jim now offers (through Rythmik) a dual passive subwoofer.  I bet that will sound awesome!

Hi Nuance,
Could you explain a bit more about this Salk option with Rythmik? I searched and couldn't find anything on the Rythmik website and Jim's website for the Song Sub doesn't mention Rythmik either.

[TJHUB]

The Rythmik options are good.  I personally like the Rythmik subs, so don't hesitate if you're leaning that way.  Also, Jim now offers (through Rythmik) a dual passive subwoofer.  I bet that will sound awesome!

Hi Nuance,
Could you explain a bit more about this Salk option with Rythmik? I searched and couldn't find anything on the Rythmik website and Jim's website for the Song Sub doesn't mention Rythmik either.

The best thing to do is just call Jim Salk.  He will answer all of your questions.

[Nuance]

The Rythmik options are good.  I personally like the Rythmik subs, so don't hesitate if you're leaning that way.  Also, Jim now offers (through Rythmik) a dual passive subwoofer.  I bet that will sound awesome!

Hi Nuance,
Could you explain a bit more about this Salk option with Rythmik? I searched and couldn't find anything on the Rythmik website and Jim's website for the Song Sub doesn't mention Rythmik either.

Like, TJHUB said, give Jim a shout.  I don't want to botch any of the specifics, but Jim has a sort of permission from Rythmik to build based on their designs (someone correct me if I am wrong).  One of the newest designs is a dual passive subwoofer, which is to my best guess going to be incredible.  I know there is a member of this forum that has placed an order for one, but I cannot remember who for the life of me.  Sorry.  Anyway, don't hesitate to call or e-mail Jim.  He's a straight shooter and a great man. 

[floresjc]

I'm the guy with the new sub in the works. Basically, Rythmik sells complete subs, and they also sell parts so you can build your own. These vary from "driver and amp" only kits, to everything included, but not assembled. For the guys who want to buy driver and amp only kits, they also have a section of their website with basic cabinet designs that will work, so you don't have to model it out yourself for the driver you just bought. In short, I had Jim buy the driver and amp from Rythmik, and I think he said he essentially follows their basic enclosure size. Brian Ding and Jeff Bagby have both had input into the design.

I was looking at a SongSub, but I wanted something with more oomph and a little higher end. I got to talking with Jim, and he went over all the different types of subs: sealed, ported, passive radiator, powered, unpowered with external amp, etc. Essentially, we both ended up with the same conclusion, that a servo sub with passive radiators would be one heck of a product. Unfortunately, at the time, we didn't think there was an amp with servo circuitry that would work in a passive radiator design, and I thought I would have to pick between sealed and ported.

I called up Brian Ding at Rythmik and asked if he had any ideas about such a servo controlled sub with passive radiators. He said it was definitely doable, and he had modeled it, and it works fine if you follow his plan for a ported sub. So I went with the 15" driver, and it was decided that two 15" passives would be great with it. Jim got the final ok from Jeff on the model maybe a week or two ago, and so the box is going to be 20"W x 20"D x28"H. He had a guesstimate of 120-130lbs using 1.5" thick walls, but we'll have to wait and see on how much it really weighs.

I have to say I'm really excited about this product. Its going to be a beast to move, but it should have a lot of output, a lot of sound quality, and no port noise. I would definitely give Jim a call, he can make you anything you want, this was a design that has characteristics I was looking for, but didn't even know could be built.

[Nuance]

That's right, it was you. 

1.5" thick walls?  Yeah baby - now we're talking!  That thing is going to be a monster!

[doug s.]

i do not own salk speakers.  however, my recommendation would still apply to the songtowers, imo.  for best results, get a pair of subs, and use an active x-over to cross them to the s-t's.  the s-t's will sound better because they and their amps won't see any frequencies below the x-over point; and two subs will more evenly fill the room, prowide a better soundstage, and lower the distortion for any given playback wolume level...

doug s.

[oldmp3]

Thank you all for the information and responses. 

I did try out REW and learned my current SW response is pretty bad, there's a post on Home Theater Shack (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/20907-rew-novice-graph.html).  Also in my room, bringing the speakers more forward from the front wall can help.

I do want to upgrade the sub.