AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Red Wine Audio => Topic started by: Vinnie R. on 7 Mar 2014, 12:07 am
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(http://discover.store.sony.com/High-Resolution-Audio/assets/images/mainVisual/plate_hap-z1es.png)
All,
Last week a customer sent me a Sony HAP-Z1ES to evaluate as a candidate for modification. I am starting this thread to discuss
things "under the hood" related to this player (power supply, dac, output stages, etc.) as well as modifications.
This thread can also be used to discuss listening impressions of the stock (and modded unit in the future), comparisons, things you wish could be done to it with regards to mods, etc.
For starters, I am going to link to a few reviews and other threads that exist about this player, as well as some quick facts and opinions. I believe it was made available early 2014, so it is fairly new:
First, the links to Sony's pages:
http://discover.store.sony.com/ES/high-resolution-audio/HAP-Z1ES.html
http://store.sony.com/hi-res-music-player-with-1tb-hdd-zid27-HAPZ1ES/cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio
http://rd1.sony.net/help/ha/hapz1es
REVIEWS of stock HAP-Z1ES:
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sony-hap-z1es-hdd-audio-player/
http://www.whathifi.com/review/sony-hap-z1es
http://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-hap-z1es-high-resolution-file-player
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Other DISCUSSION THREADS that might be of interest:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=123436.0
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/sony-hap-z1es-has-arrived-19079/
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1382187029&read
I'm sure there are other reviews and discussions of merit, so please feel free to link to them if you know of any.
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The reviews and discussion threads get into the meat of what this player does and does not do, so I won't get deep into that here. But just to lay out some GENERAL INFO about the stock player, in no particular order:
-- It is NOT a solution for everyone, but I believe it makes a great solution for those who do not want a typical computer in their listening room.
-- You DO need a computer loaded with music files to transfer music to its internal 1TB drive (expandable via USB port - for storage only). Music
is transfered via wired or wireless network.
-- No digital inputs or outputs. No headphone out. It's strictly SE and BAL line out.
-- Free App to load on your computer to manage what files you want to transfer to it, deleting files, etc.
-- Free Remote App for iPhone/iPad and Android phones/tablets
-- It supports just about every audio file format, including: DSD (WSF and DSDIFF), WAV, AIFF, FLAC, ALAC, ATRAC, MP3, AAC, and WMA files.
Some quick initial impressions by me, in no particular order:
-- Once music is loaded, it is very easy to use.
-- Fast boot up and shut down. It even seems stable and menus are responsive!
-- Excellent build quality. This is Sony ES, and I think they are trying to make a statement here with this player.
-- Nice LCD, a little small (but that's were the remote app comes in handy). 3 brightness settings.
-- For the USD $1995 MSRP, it is a great value. I say this based on the sound quality, build quality, what is under the hood, and how well it functions, which brings me to....
Some quick "under the hood" information about the power supply, d/a, and output stage:
-- Mostly linear regulated power supply stages inside. Multiple EI transformer cores. Use of MANY linear voltage
regulators. Very little sharing of voltage rails. There are a few sections that get a feed from DC-DC chips. But there is no switching power supply inside, and the critical stuff is all linear regulated.
-- Dual Burr Brown PCM1795 d/a chips (one per channel)
-- OPA2132UA opamps used in the output stage
-- No analog volume control (but there is a "learning remote" feature so its remote can control most amps. Haven't tried it)
-- Native DSD (DSD64 and DSD128), and also has a PCM-to-DSD "remastering engine" that converts everything to DSD128. This can be enabled/disabled.
-- Has a DSEE restore engine to add some life to compressed music (or internet radio). This can also be enabled/disabled.
-- Auto Mute relays are not in the signal path (the shunt to GND). You can hear them click from time to time when you play files
of different bit/sample rates as it quickly adjusts clocking to play files natively.
-- Low phase noise master clock
-- Separate boards for d/a and output stage, FPGAs, linear regulators, DC-DC regulators, ethernet/wifi.
-- Solid chassis. Only the top plate (easy to remove) rings a little, but that is very easy to take care of with dynamat or similar.
-- Very quiet operation. There is what appears to be a "safety fan" inside that could be turned on if the player were to get too warm. Perhaps
that could happen if hot tube amp was on the shelf below it, or if the listen room was 100F or something. But I have yet it hear it or ever
see it switch on in normal operation. It's a nice touch.
SO HOW DOES IT SOUND?
I'm going to be posting more about this by this weekend. I've been putting in a few listening hours each night and getting more and more
familiar with its sound signature. What I can say upfront is that in its stock form, it can easily compete with stand-alone dacs or anything else in its price class - and beyond. This is one of the main reasons why I think it is a great value. Sony is a huge company and can leverage their design arm and supply chain to pull something like this off for less $$$ than the smaller guys - that's just they way it is. But after considering the cost of manufacturer, cost to design, dealer margins, etc. - I don't see how they are making much profit on this player! From what I am hearing, seeing, and feeling - it leaves me scratching my head that that can do it for $1995. Maybe it is a "lost leader" that they sell so they can actually make good money on DSD music - like the Sony PS3?
Will Red Wine Audio be offering modifications to the HAP-Z1ES?
I intend to. Initially, I wanted to look the other way when I learned about this player last September. Years ago, I enjoyed modding the first generation Olive products (similar idea to this player). These days, I've only been modding the portable Astell & Kern high-res DAPs. But for
some reason, this Sony music tank has been calling out to me. So I have been and continue to research its design, and am initially looking to
do output stage modifications:
-- Installation of a tube output stage (one tube per channel). Most likely a version of the tube stage we use in our RWA products. It's a great
candidate because:
1. it is super low noise
2. auto-bias
3. does not require high voltage
4. does not use transformers or DC-DC converters
5. has a switch to use 6922 or 12AX7 tube families
6. has a soft-start and auto-mute for warm up, so tubes last a very long time (very low maintenance).
-- I could also do a custom version that instead uses 6H30s for those love that tube.
-- Improvements to the audio board (caps, bypass caps, resistors, convert over the I/V stage to tubes, hard-wire new RCA jacks directly to the tube stage). The capacitor/resistor swapping to fine tune the voicing of the unit. I do not wish to play with the output filter parameters that Sony developed because I'm sure they have it working well for PCM and DSD.
OTHER MODS?
Sure - this is the thread to discuss! Certain things are probably doable, certain things are probably doable but maybe something I wouldn't recommend, and I'm sure there are things that really can't or shouldn't be done in there. There is a fair amount of space in there, especially
along the rear and right side panels, to work.
I hope this thread is useful to those interested in this player, and those interested in some modifications to it as well. It should be fun! :D
Vinnie
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+1
I had to gamble on this, sounds now like it was a great choice.
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I hope this thread is useful to those interested in this player, and those interested in some modifications to it as well. It should be fun! :D
Vinnie
what a great summary from everything that has been said or heard about the sony - good to know that you looked inside and basically liked what you saw and could see where the player might be improved
looking forward to your critique of the sound and the following of what comes to fruition from this thread
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Vinnie - Very well written and directly on point. I'm not going to repeat what you just said but, yes I agree, I've owned an Olive 4HD music server, very good DACs, CD players, etc. The stock HAP-Z1EDS is better than all of them. The questions I have is why do you think the output stage should be reworked (with tubes is what you indicated), what should we expect to hear with the reworked output stage and what will it cost? If its 100% of the cost of the unit or even 50% - is it really worth it? I know thats a question asking for a subjective answer (that may help you financially.........just keeping it real :D) but I want your opinions since obviously you have thought about this unit enough to start a thread on it. And, of course, thank you!!
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This is the Amazon review that caused me to order one. If you notice, he has a very expensive system and has compared the Sony to some very high priced Dacs.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2TACOWOHH3JHG/ref=pdp_new_read_full_review_link?ie=UTF8&page=1&sort_by=MostRecentReview#R2F2JAADMHBZY8
And my buddy Rex just called, he received his new issue of The Absolute Sound. Rex told me there is a 10 page review on the Sony, and Steven Stone gives it a Best Buy rating as Vinnie does here. I am going to visit Rex this weekend and read the extensive review.
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I had to gamble on this, sounds now like it was a great choice.
OzarkT,
You did well on your gamble :thumb:
good to know that you looked inside and basically liked what you saw and could see where the player might be improved.
looking forward to your critique of the sound and the following of what comes to fruition from this thread
smargo,
Thanks for sending it my way. I've been carefully listening to it and studying the circuit design of the entire player. For $2k, it's hard to
fault. But the part that I really like about it is that it DOES lend itself to mods, and it is a good candidate for mods because it is a solid
platform in terms of the power supplies, good layout and separation of boards, DSD engine, dac, etc. And solid build quality as well. I really
think this unit will greatly benefit from a tubed output stage, along with some other mods. But I don't want to just mod things for the sake of modding. I want to see what makes the most sense and do things one step at a time. This weekend I'm going to put forward a solid strategy.
Vinnie - Very well written and directly on point. I'm not going to repeat what you just said but, yes I agree, I've owned an Olive 4HD music server, very good DACs, CD players, etc. The stock HAP-Z1EDS is better than all of them. The questions I have is why do you think the output stage should be reworked (with tubes is what you indicated), what should we expect to hear with the reworked output stage and what will it cost? If its 100% of the cost of the unit or even 50% - is it really worth it? I know thats a question asking for a subjective answer (that may help you financially.........just keeping it real ) but I want your opinions since obviously you have thought about this unit enough to start a thread on it. And, of course, thank you!!
Stercom,
Thank you. And I am going to answer your question in more detail this weekend when I go into more detail about the sound. The short answer is this:
In the early days of my modding and even early RWA days, I thought that avoiding tubes (and even preamps for that matter and going passive) made the most sense. What could be more transparent than the best measuring opamps and simple resistive attenuators and the like? Well, as I later began to experiment more with tubes, I came to the realization that a well-designed tube stage [i'm talking line-level here, not speaker output stage] cannot be beat with regards to delivering richer tonality, a sense of space in all 3-dimensions (making the soundstage bigger and more lifelike), and that 'special something' that just makes you want to keep on listening. Opamps don't do it for me. I do prefer discrete FETs, but they don't even do it for me like a good, clean tube stage. You can opamp roll, you can get rid of them and do discrete FETs or BJTs, but in my findings playing with opamps, FETs, and tubes, I find that tubes really win.
I'm sure some of you have heard not-so-great tube stages that added noise, hiss, hum, whatever. I'm sure you've heard tube stages that were thick, dark, and syrupy (where you really do here the distortion and it makes the bass bloated and muddy, makes the sound too thick, smears things, etc.). That is NOT the tube stage that I have in mind! That I promise. It's extends flat above 100k, it is open, it is super low noise, and it responds well to tube rolling. And it doesn't beat up your tubes. I'm sure it can't win a measurements battle with opamps, but in listening tests I think it will win every time as long as it is installed carefully and properly into the context of the Sony's output stage design. This is what I will make sure happens.
I don't believe it should cost 100% of the cost of this unit. Maybe 50%... I can't say yet. I wouldn't even want to go forward with it unless it does what I think it will do, and it needs to do it very well.
Other mods can be done to see if they can push the envelope. This is a specialized player. It has a lot of potential - this I know for sure. Sony set their mind on a $1995. They really give you something special for that amount. But I can see why they couldn't do any more and hit that price point. I do think their profit is very small on it. That is their business, and I don't care. I have no affiliation with Sony. I just think they have
a solid platform with this player for those who don't want a standard computer server and external dac in their system. Some might hate the idea of the Sony. They want digital inputs. They want digital outputs. Besides cost, I can see why Sony left them out. This thing plays just about any file type out there, and it does so in a specialized way to do it very well. There isn't even any SPDIF signal to be found inside to tap off of. From the FPGA, it's feeding I2S to the dual dacs. There is no Async USB, Integer mode, etc. conversion because there is no USB in. In that regard, it's less like a computer audio setup I guess. And yes, I won't waste my time with this player and even start a thread about it if I didn't think it was worth the time and effort. I have the feeling it will really catch on in the mod circles and DIY circles because of these attributes, and I also believe it will be shunned and bashed in other circles because it is not a computer + dac combo. But I really like what I am seeing and hearing, so I will move forward with it and enjoy the ride. 8)
Hi OzarkT again,
Thanks for the amazon link. Didn't see that. And in my first post of this thread, I added the TAS review by Steven Stone.
Vinnie
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There is a brand new one listed on Audiogon for $1750 plus shipping.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd-sacd-players-sony-hapz1es-hi-res-music-player-system-2014-02-25-digital-33076-pompano-beach-fl
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There is a brand new one listed on Audiogon for $1750 plus shipping.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/cd-sacd-players-sony-hapz1es-hi-res-music-player-system-2014-02-25-digital-33076-pompano-beach-fl
I've been looking for a replacement for a Modwright Transporter for a couple of years, just making do with a Touch currently, so the Sony HAP-Z1ES looks like a great candidate. Thanks for linking the Audiogon sale, based on the sellers trading experience, 0, I'd recommend any potential buyer performing a fair amount of due diligence before parting with any money for this. It may be perfectly legit and a great deal, but you need to do your homework first...
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I've been looking for a replacement for a Modwright Transporter for a couple of years, just making do with a Touch currently, so the Sony HAP-Z1ES looks like a great candidate. Thanks for linking the Audiogon sale, based on the sellers trading experience, 0, I'd recommend any potential buyer performing a fair amount of due diligence before parting with any money for this. It may be perfectly legit and a great deal, but you need to do your homework first...
You can pay by Paypal, that should protect you.
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Vinnie, I will be VERY interested in your mod. Do you plan to offer output capacitor options (IE: Duelund ... ) and tube choice (IE: 6sn7 or 6922 ...)?
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Thanks, Vinnie, for this superb summary. This Sony player does sound like a good bargain. I've read Steven Stone's review at TAS, and the one glaring omission of this player's feature set is the ability to stream music with a suitable buffer, a la Squeezebox or Sonos, from my central iTunes/ Mac library. It appears you first have to transfer the music files to the local Sony drive (using the home ethernet network) before you can play them, and then you have to create new playlists with the local files. If Sony added true streaming from my central iTunes library, with the ability to play my existing iTunes playlists, that would be a crucial capability to me. Am I missing something?
Rob
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Vinnie, I will be VERY interested in your mod. Do you plan to offer output capacitor options (IE: Duelund ... ) and tube choice (IE: 6sn7 or 6922 ...)?
Hi kngale1,
The accepted tubes would be ones from the 12AX7 family and ones from the 6922 family (switch on board
to select which family):
6922 family -- 6922/E88CC, 6DJ8/ECC88, 7308/E188CC, 7DJ8/PCC88, 6N23, 6H23, 6N11, and 6GM8
12AX7 family -- 12AX7/ECC83, E83CC/ECC803, 5751, 12DT7/12DM7/12DF7, 6681, 7058, and 7025
I can also custom configure the board for 6H30s instead of the others (6H30s have their own cult of fans, and they
might end up being a great pick for this application... we'll see).
I want to keep the tubes (1 tube/board per channel) inside the player and not sticking out the top if I can avoid it. In terms of heat, we're looking at around 2W per tube (except for the 6H30s, which is more like 5W per tube), so it will not get hot in there.
I may offer output cap options. The possibilities seem endless, and there is no way I'll have time to listen to them all. Between rolling tubes and caps, those are two variables right there that can fine-tune e the sonic signature.
Hi Robert57,
The HAP-1ZES is not a music streamer, so it does not work like a SB or Sonos. You do have to transfer your music onto the Sony's internal 1TB HDD, and then you play them.
My assumption is that Sony engineers wanted this to be there new statement source. At RMAF2013, they used in in place of the much more expensive Meitner dac that they used in past (which also does PCM to DSD remastering if I remember correctly), and it was paired with their flagship system that I think added up to ~ $30k. That's a big statement they were making and from reports I've read, they pulled it off just fine. They didn't want to convert from USB to I2S, they didn't want to convert from SPDIF to I2S, or from an Ethernet/WiFi stream. They wanted the data to be put on a hard disk, and isolated from outside influences upon playback. They didn't even design in a SPDIF output to connect to an external dac. The signal path from HDD, to CPU, to FPGA, to DAC/output stage looks very well laid out and specialized for one important dedicated task. Again, this is a big reason why I think it is an ideal candidate for mods. [It's like hot-rodding a car for more power, and the car already has a transmission, suspension, brakes that can handle it and do justice to aftermarket work - instead of putting a nitro powered V8 into something like a Honda Civic, and all the extra power and torque shreds the tranny, it handles like crap, etc. I know it's not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea]. And again, it is not the ideal player for everyone because some require streaming, Pandora, Spotify, etc. or want more flexibility. For me, when I want to use Pandora/Spotify, etc. - I know the quality is already compressed so I just plug my iPhone/iPad into a LOD and feed into the preamp. It does the trick for streaming MP3 quality. :green:
Vinnie
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The accepted tubes would be ones from the 12AX7 family and ones from the 6922 family (switch on board
to select which family):
6922 family -- 6922/E88CC, 6DJ8/ECC88, 7308/E188CC, 7DJ8/PCC88, 6N23, 6H23, 6N11, and 6GM8
12AX7 family -- 12AX7/ECC83, E83CC/ECC803, 5751, 12DT7/12DM7/12DF7, 6681, 7058, and 7025
I can also custom configure the board for 6H30s instead of the others (6H30s have their own cult of fans, and they
might end up being a great pick for this application... we'll see).
and vinnie:
im hoping that it will be easy to swap the tubes out - not having to have coniptions - just to try and change a tube
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and vinnie:
im hoping that it will be easy to swap the tubes out - not having to have coniptions - just to try and change a tube
Super easy:
1)Remove top plate.
2) Remove tubes from sockets
3) Verify 6.3V / 12V heater switch position based on what tubes you are installing
4) Install tubes into sockets
5) Replace top plate.
6) Enjoy
I'm sure I can find some stainless thumbscrews to replace the screws with, so you won't even need a screwdriver. :wink:
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Vinnie,
Thanks for the insight into what's under the hood and the mods you have planned really do sound interesting. I also appreciate your update on the ability to use a service like Spotify as this was something I was hoping would have been included and could not get a clear answer on.
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Just a quick update regarding the power supply regulation:
The analog transformer (T2) had 3 dedicated outputs (windings off the secondary):
1) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 3.3V linear regulator to feed the digital clock section
2) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 3.3V and 5V linear regulator to feed the 3.3V and 5V for the dual dacs
3) Dedicated bridge rectifier and +/- 15V linear regulators to feed the I/V conversion and output stage (SE and BAL)
The digital transformer (T1) has 2 dedicated outputs:
1) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 5V dc-dc regulator that feeds the main +5V to LOTS of other regulators to feed the microprocessor chip,
system controller chip, SDRAMs, FPGA, Audio DSP, Ethernet, etc.
2) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 5V dc-dc regulator that feeds the HDD and USB port.
So we are talking about some serious isolation between the sections. 2 separate Xformers with a total of 5 sections / bridge rectifier stages feeding a boat-load of dedicated regulators! 8)
Power supply is so important, and the engineering team for this ES product did a great job from what I am seeing....
More soon!
Vinnie
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so if I understand this right, if all my music is stored on an external hard drive, all I have to do is connect it to the back and after everything is backed up I would be good to go?
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Pretty sure even if it's stored on an external, it would still have to be 'imported' into the Sony software
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so if I understand this right, if all my music is stored on an external hard drive, all I have to do is connect it to the back and after everything is backed up I would be good to go?
Hi Afterimage,
I haven't tried using an external USB drive yet, but my understanding is that it first needs to be formatted by the Z1ES to work with it. Then you can back-up the internal 1TB drive, or use the external drive to store more music that you load onto it via the Z1ES interface. So you could have 1TB internal, 2TB external, etc. If I personally was looking for more storage space, I would look into installing a larger drive in the Sony. Not sure how large the 2.5" SSD drives are these days, but thinking 2TB is around the corner...
The good thing is that there is already a backup on your computer (because you need to transfer from your computer to the Z1ES to get files to it in the first place), and you can control what music you load onto the Z1ES in manual mode. So a lot of music that you probably are not planning on listening to can stay on your computer, and you can load 1TB of your favorites onto the Z1ES.
[Also, it looks like you can copy files back to your computer from the Z1ES when you network them. I have to confirm, but that is interesting because music from one's player can be copied to another's computer, and then onto another player it seems.]
I plan to post some more listening impressions this evening and will go from there...
Vinnie
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Vinnie, this is the most informative thread about modding Z1ES so far - thanks a lot for it!
I am a bit afraid of tubes since I have zero experience with them but will watch this place closely and who knows... and I need to buy Z1ES first, of course :)
One repeated transformers question, please - are the primary Tx windings easily adjustable inside for 100/120/220V operation or they are custom build for each US/EU/JP version?
Any ideas to design optional output buffer and analog volume control inside the unit so one can easily connect the power amp directly to Z1ES, please?
Thank you,
Ivo
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Hi Afterimage,
I haven't tried using an external USB drive yet, but my understanding is that it first needs to be formatted by the Z1ES to work with it. Then you can back-up the internal 1TB drive, or use the external drive to store more music that you load onto it via the Z1ES interface. So you could have 1TB internal, 2TB external, etc. If I personally was looking for more storage space, I would look into installing a larger drive in the Sony. Not sure how large the 2.5" SSD drives are these days, but thinking 2TB is around the corner...
The good thing is that there is already a backup on your computer (because you need to transfer from your computer to the Z1ES to get files to it in the first place), and you can control what music you load onto the Z1ES in manual mode. So a lot of music that you probably are not planning on listening to can stay on your computer, and you can load 1TB of your favorites onto the Z1ES.
[Also, it looks like you can copy files back to your computer from the Z1ES when you network them. I have to confirm, but that is interesting because music from one's player can be copied to another's computer, and then onto another player it seems.]
I plan to post some more listening impressions this evening and will go from there...
Vinnie
Thanks for the info Vinnie. I do not have anything on my computer. My Macbook does not have enough storage space. It is all on an external hard drive. That is the only place I have it. So I guess I still a bit confused.
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Vinnie, this is the most informative thread about modding Z1ES so far - thanks a lot for it!
I am a bit afraid of tubes since I have zero experience with them but will watch this place closely and who knows... and I need to buy Z1ES first, of course :)
One repeated transformers question, please - are the primary Tx windings easily adjustable inside for 100/120/220V operation or they are custom build for each US/EU/JP version?
Any ideas to design optional output buffer and analog volume control inside the unit so one can easily connect the power amp directly to Z1ES, please?
I forgot to mention above that there is actually a third, smaller transformer that provides some power to the unit when it is in STANDBY, so it can wake up and boot up with the remote or App. From what I can tell, all three transformers are specifically made for 120Vac. There is a 230Vac model available that most likely uses a different primary winding on each transformer.
If you wanted to use the 120Vac version on 230Vac, I recommend an external step-down transformer. If you are only using it for the Z1ES, it only needs to be able to handle a 35W load (max). Standby mode is 0.3W. So this external step-down transformer box does not need to be large, and it would give the benefit of added isolation and HF noise filtering (nothing wrong with that!).
Thank you,
Ivo
Hi Ivo,
Thank you. I want this thread to be informative and I have spent hours researching the internals of the Z1ES, so I'm becoming very familiar with it.
There is really NOTHING to be afraid of regarding the dual tube stages that I plan on using. The tubes will last a really, really long time with this design. It's all automatic in that you just use the player like you normally would.
As far as an option to add a built-in volume control and output buffer, that is doable. The volume control unit can remain in the back of the unit to keep the signal path very short and clean, and you can use a remote to control it (run an IR sensor to the front). Actually - Sony's remote could probably do it since it does have volume buttons (for learning volume codes of other amps), that could be really slick! 8)
It would be like a tube buffered preamp built-in, but with a very short signal path right on the back panel.
[Aside: I suppose an analog input could be done if needed, but it would add a relay or selector switch in the signal path]
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I have to be honest and say that I'm not too interested in the balanced (XLR) outputs. I don't run very long interconnects and don't see much of a point to sending the signal to another stage for the balanced signal, and then to a balanced input stage of a preamp or amp, which usually converts it back to SE somewhere anyway. I'm not sure how many of you out there would really want to used balanced instead. I rather disable it because after the I/V conversion that follows the dac, the signal it split to feed the SE and BAL output stages. I rather see the feed to the BAL output lifted. :icon_twisted:
Also - I think that I forgot to mention that there would be another dedicated linear power supply section added to feed the tube stages. Sony did such a good job isolating the stages that I believe it would only be detrimental to the sound to not use a dedicated supply for the tube stages.
Thanks for the info Vinnie. I do not have anything on my computer. My Macbook does not have enough storage space. It is all on an external hard drive. That is the only place I have it. So I guess I still a bit confused.
Hi Afterimage,
That's fine. You run the Sony app on your computer and you get to select where the Z1ES looks for your music. So you'd tell it to look for it in the external drive that plugs into your computer. Then the music files get sent from your external drive to your computer, and then sent to the ZES1 via LAN or WiFi connection.
Vinnie
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Soooooo - how does it sound??? (continued).
As promised, here we go:
I’ve reached the point where I feel like I have a good grip on the stock sound signature. I've accumulated 10 to 12 hours of dedicated listening so far. As I’ve mentioned earlier, it is fantastic for a $2k player and easily competes with anything in its price class. And I’ve heard more expensive stand-alone dacs that I would stay sounded inferior to the Z1ES, and I'm not going to mention names! :nono: :green:
First – this is important to mention: Even though smargo put some burn-in time on it, out of the box it sounded a little bit closed-in, bloated in the bass, and kind of strident at times for me. After letting it run in for about 24 hours connected to 5k load resistors, it DID make a noticeable change for the better! Like a lot of components, it will benefit from 100+ hours of burn-in connected to a load before you start getting critical with it. If you don't believe in burn-in, just delete what I just wrote from your mind and let's continue...
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Ok – with both Redbook, High Res PCM, and DSD, the Z1ES sounds big, bold, and beautifully balanced sounding! It is very clean and dynamic. It does a fantastic job conveying the energy in the music (assuming you are listening to energetic music in the first place)!
The top-end is nice and extended, with plenty of decay. Plenty of fine detail retrieval without acting too much like a magnifying glass to the point where it ruins things. I don’t want to mention “air” because I get tired of that term being used, so I’ll just say that throws of the illusion that there is a lot of nitrogen, some oxygen, and a smidgen of other gases around the instruments being played. :icon_lol:
The midrange is what I’d call neutral. Maybe a little dry, but not overly so. Instruments and vocals are nice and clear and distinct. When it comes to conveying emotion (for me, that mostly lies in the midrange) it is good, but I believe that is one of the key areas where the Z1ES can be improved the most, and where I also believe a good tube implementation would be most welcome.
Another one is sound stage. In its stock form, is fairly deep, but not as wide and tall as I’m used to (using the Bellina dac). It needs to get taller and wider to really sound three dimensional. But front to back layering is solid in its stock form!
In terms of tonality, I am happy to report that is does a decent job. I just needs some more of it to do a better at seducing me into the music with certain favorite tracks of mine for testing this kind of thing. Again, it’s an emotional thing – and in my experience, a good tube output stage implementation would be KILLER here!
The bass digs deep and has plenty of weight, but I found that it lacks a little in articulation. Some bass solos have a bit of overhang to the notes. It’s not “slow” – but at times it gets a bit congested. I think I know where that little issue is coming from after studying the analog power supply and analog output stage boards. :wink:
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As far as the PCM to DSD remastering goes, I was actually pleasantly surprised. I did not think it would impress me (why not just keep the files in their native PCM form?), but for certain Redbook albums, they gained some missing fullness and body, and even became a tad less aggressive in the top end. With well-recorded Redbook and hi-res PCM, I mostly preferred the PCM-to-DSD feature turned off. YMMV with this feature, but the fact that you can enable or disable this feature is a nice touch, so use as you please.
I preferred DSEE turned ON when testing out the internet radio as did help bring a little more life up top, but it was only a subtle improvement for me. For Redbook, I preferred it always turned OFF. There is an annoyingly bright, blue LED on the front panel that turns ON when DSEE is ON. I plan to add some more resistance in series with it to calm it down if I can find which resistor it is. I hate laser beams in my field of view when I listen! :evil: The green power LED that remains ON when the unit is ON is fine...
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So without getting to chatty and verbose, there you have it. Remember, this is just one man’s opinion (and all opinions are biased, true?) of the stock Z1ES player. What I love about it is that it has HUGE potential to be a stunningly good sounding machine. I believe 100% that it is worth my time and energy because it is a super solid foundation to work on in terms of both sound, build quality, internal layout, power supply, etc. I realize that it doesn’t have all the features that some of you (and even I) want. But I can tell from studying it that it is a specialized design and it is designed to do what it does exceptionally well, and NOT designed to do a lot of things (other features) only “well-enough. And because the price of it, IMHO, is a bargain for what you get in terms of an overall quality design, so it makes developing a modification package(s) for it a sound idea.
That is where I'll be going from here. Thank you for your interest in this journey - more to come soon enough!
Vinnie
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Just a quick update regarding the power supply regulation:
The analog transformer (T2) had 3 dedicated outputs (windings off the secondary):
1) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 3.3V linear regulator to feed the digital clock section
2) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 3.3V and 5V linear regulator to feed the 3.3V and 5V for the dual dacs
3) Dedicated bridge rectifier and +/- 15V linear regulators to feed the I/V conversion and output stage (SE and BAL)
The digital transformer (T1) has 2 dedicated outputs:
1) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 5V dc-dc regulator that feeds the main +5V to LOTS of other regulators to feed the microprocessor chip,
system controller chip, SDRAMs, FPGA, Audio DSP, Ethernet, etc.
2) Dedicated bridge rectifier and 5V dc-dc regulator that feeds the HDD and USB port.
So we are talking about some serious isolation between the sections. 2 separate Xformers with a total of 5 sections / bridge rectifier stages feeding a boat-load of dedicated regulators! 8)
Power supply is so important, and the engineering team for this ES product did a great job from what I am seeing....
More soon!
Vinnie
What is the "thing" before the two transformers? It does supply current to the another board.
May by you could offer plug-and-play external power supply (100V to 120V/240V)? Sony didn't sell this Hap in Asia countries (mainly 240V), however people can buy direct or indirectly from Japan (100V), and it's a lot cheap than buying it from UK, Euro or US.
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...[Also, it looks like you can copy files back to your computer from the Z1ES when you network them. I have to confirm, but that is interesting because music from one's player can be copied to another's computer, and then onto another player it seems.]...
Yes, you can copy files from Z1ES to any computers using Sony software, win/Mac version. Ans delete the files directly from Z1ES from any computers using software as well.
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Thanks for the info Vinnie. I do not have anything on my computer. My Macbook does not have enough storage space. It is all on an external hard drive. That is the only place I have it. So I guess I still a bit confused.
Transfer the files via Mac to Sony using their software http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/model-home.pl?mdl=HAPZ1ES&template_id=1®ion_id=1&tab=download#/downloadTab
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...I don't run very long interconnects...
Fully-differential design not just about running long interconnect.
...then to a balanced input stage of a preamp or amp, which usually converts it back to SE somewhere anyway...
There are many fully-differential amplifiers available in the market.
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Vinnie, thanks for the reply and detailed review. I am afraid though that after your excellent technical and sonic descriptions of Z1ES even less people will want to modify it further ;-)
But on the other hand I fully understand your ambitious goal to mod it to perfection!
Based on peterlim8's suggestion for a universal external 100/120/230 V PSU I also would suggest you to think about ready build and tested upgrade modules for custom DIY installation under your instructions.
I've built Buffalo DAC and Naim-based power amp supplied on modules and I am extremely happy with the final results.
I am located in Europe and shipping the 17kg Sony across the ocean back and forth will add a lot of cost.
Thank you!
Ivo
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Vinnie, thanks for the reply and detailed review. I am afraid though that after your excellent technical and sonic descriptions of Z1ES even less people will want to modify it further ;-)
I'm pretty sure there is plenty of audiophiles that don't want to go through the maze that is computer audio and are interested in a DAC/server that is a one box solution that is basically plug and play after initial setup. What will hold audiophiles back on this unit is that it is good, but not great from a sound quality standpoint. Vinnie's mod can potentially give them the higher performance sound quality they crave to go with the original concept or the ease of use this unit can provide.
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Vinnie, thanks for the reply and detailed review. I am afraid though that after your excellent technical and sonic descriptions of Z1ES even less people will want to modify it further ;-)
But on the other hand I fully understand your ambitious goal to mod it to perfection!
Based on peterlim8's suggestion for a universal external 100/120/230 V PSU I also would suggest you to think about ready build and tested upgrade modules for custom DIY installation under your instructions.
I've built Buffalo DAC and Naim-based power amp supplied on modules and I am extremely happy with the final results.
I am located in Europe and shipping the 17kg Sony across the ocean back and forth will add a lot of cost.
Thank you!
Ivo
Hi Ivo,
I forgot to say "Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!" (I see you recently joined).
Vinnie, thanks for the reply and detailed review. I am afraid though that after your excellent technical and sonic descriptions of Z1ES even less people will want to modify it further ;-)
What will hold audiophiles back on this unit is that it is good, but not great from a sound quality standpoint. Vinnie's mod can potentially give them the higher performance sound quality they crave to go with the original concept or the ease of use this unit can provide.
AfterImage is correct! What I have posted in this thread confirms (to me, at least) is that this unit is an excellent candidate for modifications. It has a solid foundation, but still has room to grow in terms of being getting to the level of being a top-notch source component.
What I think would be helpful is if I offer a few different stages of modification, probably 3. I still have a lot of work to do regarding this and feedback is always appreciated. There might also be a few add-on options that one can apply to any of the 3 stages of mods, such as a remote volume controlled output for those who do not want to use a preamp. Please let me know if there are other items on your wish list (perhaps a headphone output stage, analog input that passes through the tube output stage and volume, etc.). I'm not saying I can do anything, but if you plant seeds in the RWA garden it might just grow!
The first thing I plan to explore is just the output stage after the dac chips, and going tubes. One tube stage board per channel.
Hi Peterlim8,
Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!
Thanks for your posts. If you don't please, please try to post all your comments into one post at a time if it isn't too much added work. You can quote from previous comments above and respond all in one post.
What is the "thing" before the two transformers? It does supply current to the another board.
It is the stand-by transformer. So it is always ON if the unit is plugged into a live AC outlet, and supplies a voltage to the microprocessor so the unit can turn ON via the App, , the remote or by pressing the momentary push button on the front panel.
May by you could offer plug-and-play external power supply (100V to 120V/240V)? Sony didn't sell this Hap in Asia countries (mainly 240V), however people can buy direct or indirectly from Japan (100V), and it's a lot cheap than buying it from UK, Euro or US.
At the very least, I could offer an external 240V to 120V converter for this unit for people who are running on 230V and end up buying direct from Japan or North America.
Fully-differential design not just about running long interconnect.
There are many fully-differential amplifiers available in the market.
True. I'm not sure how many people would want a modded version with XLR outputs. I believe I can offer this as well.
I also would suggest you to think about ready build and tested upgrade modules for custom DIY installation under your instructions.
I've built Buffalo DAC and Naim-based power amp supplied on modules and I am extremely happy with the final results.
I am located in Europe and shipping the 17kg Sony across the ocean back and forth will add a lot of cost.
Hi Ivo,
Modifications are going to require drilling the enclosure, desoldering and soldering at various locations, etc. I'm not sure how many people are comfortable with doing this kind of work because it won't be plug n' plug. Something to look into, though...
Thanks for all your posts and continued interest - Keep 'em coming! :hyper:
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie, thank you for the welcome!
Just a suggestion for you if you don't mind, please - few years ago I bought modified Sonos player and Behringer DAC directly from the people who modded them. This saved me shipping cost and was much faster too.
Now Sony is much more expensive unit to keep in stock but offering already modified one will be a good option for people from the other part of the world, especially if you can provide a universal PSU too.
About the balanced/unbalanced discussion - I suppose that for the BAL-SE conversion Sony uses some OP amp based solution. If you can offer a discrete one with its own supply this could be a good option too, IMHO.
Cheers,
Ivo
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Just a suggestion for you if you don't mind, please - few years ago I bought modified Sonos player and Behringer DAC directly from the people who modded them. This saved me shipping cost and was much faster too.
Now Sony is much more expensive unit to keep in stock but offering already modified one will be a good option for people from the other part of the world, especially if you can provide a universal PSU too.
Hi noiseless,
I can do this - I already do with the portable Astell & Kern players.
As for the SE/BAL discussion - I'm sure I can offer a solution for both and have the customer pick.
All,
Just a few things I didn't mention yet:
The Sony App for the iPad/iPhone works very well. It is very responsive and intuitive. I like the search by track feature that shows the file type for all the songs - nice touch! You can even turn the Sony OFF from this App, and adjust the volume that you can have learned for your amp and saved in memory. You just need to connect the "IR Blaster" in and have it near your IR sensor of your amp. So the App could control your music and volume to your amp!
Also - Internet Radio works great, too. I didn't spend too much time with this, but there are some higher streaming rate stations (320kbps) that do sound quite good. There is an Audiophile Jazz one from Greece, and Linn Records station. And you can search for local stations, NPR, or whatever you like.
More to come...
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Vinnie, can you get JazzRadio.com on internet radio? The ONLY reason I'm using a SB Touch is for internet radio JazzRadio.com ... digital out to my Dac.
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The Sony App for the iPad/iPhone works very well. It is very responsive and intuitive. I like the search by track feature that shows the file type for all the songs - nice touch! You can even turn the Sony OFF from this App, and adjust the volume that you can have learned for your amp and saved in memory. You just need to connect the "IR Blaster" in and have it near your IR sensor of your amp. So the App could control your music and volume to your amp!
also you can control the on/off dsd upsampling and the on/of dsee, synchronizing and repeat functions, gapless playback and a myriad of other things
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also you can control the on/off dsd upsampling and the on/of dsee, synchronizing and repeat functions, gapless playback and a myriad of other things
I see that now, thanks! I love the clean and simple layout of the App, as well as the front panel of this unit.
Speaking of front panel, I think I found a misprint. :o The model number on the front panel is HAP-ZiES, but everywhere else (website, manual, etc), it is HAP-Z1ES. No big deal... just thought I'd mention it.
Vinnie, can you get JazzRadio.com on internet radio? The ONLY reason I'm using a SB Touch is for internet radio JazzRadio.com ... digital out to my Dac.
YES - I confirmed last night that it has around 30 JazzRadio.com stations, just like on the website.
Vinnie
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Speaking of front panel, I think I found a misprint. :o The model number on the front panel is HAP-ZiES, but everywhere else (website, manual, etc), it is HAP-Z1ES. No big deal... just thought I'd mention it.
The pictures I've looked at read HAP-Z1 ES. Either you have a rare misprinted one or perhaps there is a bit of missing silkscreen paint in the middle of the "1" making it look like an "i"?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96138)
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Mucho great info Vinnie.
And if someone is willing to send their Sony to Aluminati Sound, they just might design a fancy faceplate and offer it to anyone else that wants one.
I hope I am not stepping on Vinnie's toes here.
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The faceplate on the Sony already looks pretty nice, IMO.
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Vinnie, THANKS for all the info ... great stuff!
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The pictures I've looked at read HAP-Z1 ES. Either you have a rare misprinted one or perhaps there is a bit of missing silkscreen paint in the middle of the "1" making it look like an "i"?
Hi srb,
Well, this unit (smargo's) is definitely an 'i" - so I guess his is going to be a rare, collectible edition version! :green:
And if someone is willing to send their Sony to Aluminati Sound, they just might design a fancy faceplate and offer it to anyone else that wants one.
I hope I am not stepping on Vinnie's toes here.
Hi Tom,
This can be great if someone what's me to add a volume control to the front panel, and even a headphone output jack.
I believe I'd be able to install a remote volume control (where you'd use the Sony's remote or the App) to control it, without having to drill
the front. But if you want to have a physical knob to turn on the front, we'd need to look into front panel machining. Same is true for a headphone jack installed on the front. Installation on the rear wouldn't be a problem because there is usable space, but it wouldn't be as convenient as having it on the front panel.
A few remote volume control ideas:
- Bent Audio Alps - I use this in our products and it sounds surprisingly good, and the remote control is nice and precise. It is also super quiet, linear regulated, and the controller IC goes into sleep mode when there are no commands.
- Bent Autoformers - I haven't tried them and this would cost a lot more $$$, but their reputation is solid. John Chapman is a great guy to work with as well. In my experience, he is one of the nicest and honest people in the business! And he has a forum here on Audiocircle.
- Tortuga Audio LDRx - A different approach to volume control using Light Dependent Resistors (LDR's). Morten also has a forum right here on Audiocircle. I actually have one of his LDR3x boards that I've been meaning to try.
- Goldpont (or DACT) stepped attenuator - For those who prefer a resistive stepped attenuator, Goldpoint in California (and DACT from Denmark) make nice ones, and Bent Audio also makes a remote control stepper motor kit for them!
- Other... feel free to mention other great ones that I missed and you'd like to see in there.
I'll leave the discussion about adding a volume control and headphone stage to you guys. Chime in if you would be interested!
For now, I'm going to start working on the tube output stage, and we'll go from there. I ordered my own HAP-Z1ES, which should
arrive later this week. It will be helpful in making comparisons between the stock and modded unit, feeding into an Isabella preamp to do the
A/B switching.
The faceplate on the Sony already looks pretty nice, IMO.
I agree - it's a really nice layout and feels solid (except for the knob which is plastic). I'll try a few different knobs to see if they look better, but
it's just a cosmetic thing. When I have the mods done I will take pics, and take a few pics with an alternate knob.
Keep the discussion going - This has been a lot of fun so far...!
Vinnie
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AND WE'RE OFF!!! :bounce:
I found a very high quality linear regulated power supply module that will do the trick for the tubed output stage. It's not cheap,
but has really nice specs like ~ 0.2 ohm output impedance across the audio spectrum, ripple in the uV range, excellent
load and line regulation, and made in the USA.
It's a little big, so I spent a while finding a good location, but I had to move the Standby board a little and install some new standoffs
for it in order to make the new power supply fit.
Then I wired it up to confirm that it does turns ON/OFF when the unit turns ON/OFF (standby). Success!
Now that I have found the ideal power supply for the tube output stage, load tested it, and have the installation scheme, I'll
be able to start working on the output stage this week. This is where I expect to achieve the largest gains in performance! :singing:
HOW ABOUT BATTERY POWER?
I received an inquiry about this, and YES - I do plan to later offer an external Black Lightning LiFePO4 unit that will power the tube output stage, and possible even the dacs and clock circuitry. This will be part of a higher level modification package, and will naturally add to the cost. There will be a 1-pack and 2-pack solution, depending on how long one wants to be able to run the audio stages off-the-grid. It is too early to say, but I'm guessing the 1-pack solution will give around 6-7 hours, and the 2 pack solution will give around 12+ hours (and there is a switch on the Black Lightning that let's you play and charge at the same time for non-critical listening with no time limitation). I do expect that the Black Lightning edition is going to be the cat's meow for this player, but I do want it to remain an option.
More to follow.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96258)
Ohhhh YES! :drool:
Just a teaser pic. Stay tuned!
Vinnie
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Vinnie, this looks neat and hope it sounds good too.
Will the tubes and their supply or the components around them need additional cooling/ventilation - like drilling holes on the top cover?
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Hi, Vinnie. I am definitely staying tuned, too!
Meanwhile, it would certainly be interesting if someone reported on a run-off between the unmodified Sony and PS Audio's new DirectStream DAC <http://www.psaudio.com/products/audio/media-players/perfectwave-directstream-dac/>. While in some respects an apple and an orange, the up-sampling in DSD and use of a FPGA that both employ are not. Then look at the upfront cost difference between the two; the PS Audio piece costs 3 times more than the Sony.
And that would be just for starters. Add in your mods, and I am guessing the Sony would be taken to a whole other level!
I will be on the edge of my seat!
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Will the tubes and their supply or the components around them need additional cooling/ventilation - like drilling holes on the top cover?
Hi noiseless,
This is all the ventilation that you will need:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96270)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96271)
No need to drill holes on the top cover. No need for exposed tubes.
And that would be just for starters. Add in your mods, and I am guessing the Sony would be taken to a whole other level!
I will be on the edge of my seat!
Hi rlabarre,
Well I was GLUED to my seat listening last night and got to bed way later than I should have! :inlove:
Tube stages are burning-in and I still have some things I am planning to do on the Audio PCB in the unit, but right from the beginning
of listening with the tubed output stages it's a more seductive experience that pulls you deeper into the music. And this is with stock
JJ E88CCs! :o
Vinnie
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Vinnie, when are you taking orders? :D
rlabarre, My hesitation with PS Audio is their buggy / in-stable software and firmware. So far only read positive experiences with Sony software and Apps.
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Hi Vinnie,
Very interesting thread - I've been waiting for this kind of player for a long time.
If you don't mind couple questions about your tube output:
- Is it doing both I/V conversion and amplification?
- What is the output voltage and impedance?
- What do you think about using a transformer directly on the 1795 outputs?
(There are some reports of good results using 1794 with transformer).
Thanks,
Vlad
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Vinnie, when are you taking orders? :D
rlabarre, My hesitation with PS Audio is their buggy / in-stable software and firmware. So far only read positive experiences with Sony software and Apps.
kngale1,
My guess is that I'll at least have the first mod package before this month is over. Higher-level mod packages will follow.
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While the Z1ES does not have all the features of a computer + dac, it does offer some benefits of simplicity (which I like!):
- No need for Pure Music, Amarra, Audirvana, etc
- No need to have to optimize a computer for dedicated audio use.
- No need to have a computer in your system, so you can free it up and use it for other things
- No computer's internal switching power supplies in your system.
- No need for a USB cable, or for trying to isolate the USB power/gnd from the player.
- No cataloging headaches. Just picks the music folders you want to send to the Sony, and it'll play all your formats
and take all your album artwork and it just works.
- Just a power cable and interconnects.
Very interesting thread - I've been waiting for this kind of player for a long time.
If you don't mind couple questions about your tube output:
- Is it doing both I/V conversion and amplification?
- What is the output voltage and impedance?
- What do you think about using a transformer directly on the 1795 outputs?
(There are some reports of good results using 1794 with transformer).
Thanks,
Vlad
Hi Vlad,
Thanks. The gain of the tube stages are set to 0dB, so they are not boosting the output voltage. Right now, I have them as followers (buffers), as the output voltage is good at approx. 2Vrms at the RCA output jacks. Output impedance is low at under 500 ohms.
I'm not sure if a passive transformer is the best way to do it if you want to preserve the output stage filtering implemented get rid of the ultrasonic noise from the PCM and DSD conversion. But I'll look into it...
All the best,
Vinnie
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While the Z1ES does not have all the features of a computer + dac, it does offer some benefits of simplicity (which I like!):
- No need for Pure Music, Amarra, Audirvana, etc
- No need to have to optimize a computer for dedicated audio use.
- No need to have a computer in your system, so you can free it up and use it for other things
- No computer's internal switching power supplies in your system.
- No need for a USB cable, or for trying to isolate the USB power/gnd from the player.
- No cataloging headaches. Just picks the music folders you want to send to the Sony, and it'll play all your formats
and take all your album artwork and it just works.
- Just a power cable and interconnects.
Don't forget internet radio.
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- No need for Pure Music, Amarra, Audirvana, etc
- No need to have to optimize a computer for dedicated audio use.
- No need to have a computer in your system, so you can free it up and use it for other things
- No computer's internal switching power supplies in your system.
- No need for a USB cable, or for trying to isolate the USB power/gnd from the player.
- No cataloging headaches. Just picks the music folders you want to send to the Sony, and it'll play all your formats
and take all your album artwork and it just works.
- Just a power cable and interconnects.
Now lets see how much this saves me.
No Amarra-I could have saved $149 on this if Sony had been out sooner.
No dedicated computer-I could sell my mac mini for $400.
No USB cable-I was toying on buying a Lightspeed, savings of $1000. And I now do not need my Virtue Audio USB cable at $70, no need to use the IUSB at $199 or the Gemini IFI cable at $219 or the Itube at $299,
No outboard DAC- I had bought a Matrix Mini Pro dac recently for $500, a great sounding inexpensive Sabre Dac with remote.
Power cable- I have a $150 power cable hooked up to the Mac mini, now will goes elsewhere.
Interconnect-One less IC to use, savings of $300-500 and will get better sound.
Wow, does that mean my Sony was free? But it will save me enough to get Vinnies mods. My Sony will be here tomorrow, I cannot wait. And if the tube Circuit sounds good with those JJ tubes, the GE 5751 Gold Pin tubes wiil make it sound a lot better. I have had both in my system. :thumb:
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Well, you will still need a power cord and pair of interconnects for the Z1ES. But all the other stuff can go and I doubt you are going to miss it.
Let us know when you get it and put some hours on it...
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any more updates on the sound?
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Well, you will still need a power cord and pair of interconnects for the Z1ES. But all the other stuff can go and I doubt you are going to miss it.
Let us know when you get it and put some hours on it...
I have that covered, but it saves me one less IC and power cord.
I will give an update on the sonics.
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Planning to purchase the Z1, and will be interested in the mods, especially the output stage mod.
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Vinnie -
I've been a lurker on this topic for some time. Many posts ago you suggested that your mod was going to eschew the XLR for the RCA outputs due to circuit simplicity. Perhaps I'm in the minority but my preamp is fully balanced and I always like to use XLR when possible. Any way the modification can include the balanced outs or perhaps a higher level modification could enable the XLR outs?
Thanks,
Bob
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Planning to purchase the Z1, and will be interested in the mods, especially the output stage mod.
(http://I've been a lurker on this topic for some time. Many posts ago you suggested that your mod was going to eschew the XLR for the RCA outputs due to circuit simplicity. Perhaps I'm in the minority but my preamp is fully balanced and I always like to use XLR when possible. Any way the modification can include the balanced outs or perhaps a higher level modification could enable the XLR outs?
Thanks,
Bob)
Hi Sadhu and Bob,
Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!
Bob, I am going to work out the same modification for the XLR outputs, so one can choose which output they want modded (SE, or BAL).
Vinnie
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All,
I just spotted this initial impressions report on Positive-Feedback's Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/PositiveFeedbackOnline?ref=stream (PF Facebook page)
http://www.positive-feedback.com (PF Home Page, where the review will go live when it is completed)
Quick first impressions, as promised: the Sony HAP Z1ES proved easy to set up. All networking, both wired (CAT6 gigabit) and wireless proved to be simple, and worked the first time on both sides. Its interface is pretty intuitive, and worked very well with the HDD Audio Remote app. I've tried this on both the supplied Sony Xperian pad and my own iPad 3...both IOS 7.1 and the Android system had no problems. Installation of the HAP Transfer app on my Windows 7 64-bit notebook computer upstairs was flawless, and connected with the wired interface immediately, once I shifted to the wired subnet. (For security reasons, I keep wired and wireless networks on two entirely different Network address spaces.) I used the Sony Transfer app to copy about 110 GB of DSD files to the 1 TB internal storage on the Z1ES. Then I shifted it back to the wireless network so that I could connect with the Xperian and iPad remote control apps. No problems at all...a really gratifying result, I must say.
My VERY preliminary listening impressions are quite positive. With only a few hours on the review sample, the sonic results have been quite positive. PCM is PCM, but sounds good on the Z1ES. I had the unit set to convert PCM to Double DSD (yes, that's what the Z1ES can do), so that is likely the reason for this result.
Most of my listening has been to DSD, naturally; there the sound is natural, detailed, totally balanced, with superior imaging and soundstaging. Frankly, I was hearing a quality of sound on the first day that was better than I expected. Nice!
Since the Z1ES converts to Double DSD, I decided to copy a Double DSD sample track to the review unit, to see if it would play it. I wasn't surprised, but I was gratified to see that the Z1ES handled my sample Double DSD track without a hitch. In fact, it sounded great!
So far, this has been an exceptional experience. Sony is onto something here...at $1,999, this is a relative steal in audiophile terms.
More to come at PFO, when I flesh this all out....
As reviews go live, I'll add links to them to the first page of this thread.
Ok - back to work for me... :whip:
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Vinnie,
This might be a dumb question but would your mod void Sony's warranty?
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Vinnie,
This might be a dumb question but would your mod void Sony's warranty?
Yes - for sure.
But I can still help make repairs if ever needed. And any modification work will have a 5 year warranty.
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I'm not sure if a passive transformer is the best way to do it if you want to preserve the output stage filtering implemented get rid of the ultrasonic noise from the PCM and DSD conversion. But I'll look into it...
Vinnie, forgive me if this is an ignorant question. Aren't the Dual Burr Brown PCM1795 d/a chips only used for playback of PCM material in PCM, not for PCM converted to DSD? I have assumed (correctly or incorrectly for the Sony) that all the DSD processing is done by the FPGA. If I am right about this, then I don't understand the talk of a transformer just at the 1795 outputs. In fact, maybe you can explain better to a layman like myself exactly how your output stage design improves upon what the HAP-Z1ES comes with from the factory. To help frame how you answer, let me quote the designer of PS Audio's new DSD Dac, who explains particular pains that he took on the output stage of that particular unit:Transformer coupled output. The output of the DSD engine is fed directly into the output stage which is based on high speed video amplifiers, passive filtering, including a carefully crafted high bandwidth audio transformer at the output. Unlike conventional DACS that depend on active analog output circuitry and the problems associated with them, DirectStream is purely passive.
Specifically, how would your output design differ in philosophy from this? Or is it even a relevant comparison?
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Vinnie, forgive me if this is an ignorant question. Aren't the Dual Burr Brown PCM1795 d/a chips only used for playback of PCM material in PCM, not for PCM converted to DSD?
This is not correct. The dual PCM1795 d/a chips handle BOTH the PCM and DSD conversion.
Here is a simplified block diagram (not showing power supplies):
HDD (Hard drive with your music) >> MCU (microcontroller) >> FPGA >> PCM1795's >> Analog output stage
Also going in/out of the FPGA is an Audio DSP (digital signal processor, which is a Analog Devices SHARC ADSP-21488KSWZ-3A1).
If I am right about this, then I don't understand the talk of a transformer just at the 1795 outputs. In fact, maybe you can explain better to a layman like myself exactly how your output stage design improves upon what the HAP-Z1ES comes with from the factory.
The talk of the transformer is for the analog output stage (analog signal) in the I/V stage of the dac chips. The Z1ES is not using a transformer. They are doing I/V conversion via an OPA2132UA (burr brown op amp).
I am using a tube output stage (one for each channel, as there is one dac chip for each channel) in the output stage. The stock unit is using opamps. I am also bypassing some parts in the signal path and direct wiring from the Audio Output board to the tube stages (bypassing extra PCB traces, 2 molex connectors per channel, and the stock wiring). And the tube output stages get their own dedicated linear power supply that I install.
As for your quote:
...The output of the DSD engine is fed directly into the output stage which is based on high speed video amplifiers, passive filtering, including a carefully crafted high bandwidth audio transformer at the output. Unlike conventional DACS that depend on active analog output circuitry and the problems associated with them, DirectStream is purely passive.
I don't want to speak for PS Audio, but this quote has a contradiction. See in bold above. If it was purely passive, then it wouldn't use "high speed video amplifiers." :duh:
Specifically, how would your output design differ in philosophy from this? Or is it even a relevant comparison?
I'm using two high bandwidth, Class A tube stages. No transformers.
- Vinnie
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Thanks, Vinnie. Your explanations clear-up a lot for me. But what, then, does the FPGA do?
And, yes, I had noticed the same contradiction in the PS Audio quote.
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Thanks, Vinnie. Your explanations clear-up a lot for me. But what, then, does the FPGA do?
And, yes, I had noticed the same contradiction in the PS Audio quote.
The FPGA does the signal processing for the PCM and DSD music files and and creates the I2S signals (for the d/a chips), mode control lines,
mute control, oscillator control, etc.
The raw 0's and 1's of your music files stored on your HDD cannot be directly sent to a d/a chip for conversion to analog. They need to be formatted, digital filtered, etc. in such a way that the d/a converter accepts the bit streams. D/A chips want a Master System Clock, Left/Right Clock, Bit clock, and data line (these are the I2S signals). And mode control lines (so the d/a knows if it is getting PCM or DSD), mute control (so the output is muted when it powers up, or quickly muted and un-muted when it switches clock freq. based on the file you are feeding it).
Very simply put, the d/a chip says "give me clocking info, data, and let me know what data is for the left and right channels - and I'll crunch the data at the right times to create the analog waveform." D/A chip does not want a raw music file given to it. It needs to know how many bits are for each sample, what clocking freq. to use when converting, what data is LEFT, and what data is for RIGHT. And it wants a very clean power supply and reference voltage to do its conversion.
- Vinnie
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Vinnie, this is the most informative thread about modding Z1ES so far - thanks a lot for it!
Hi Ivo,
Thanks, and thanks for all your interest!
I am a bit afraid of tubes since I have zero experience with them but will watch this place closely and who knows
Please do not be afraid. You are just going to use the modded player like you would the stock player. The tubes are in the inside. They will last a very, very long time. No ventilation issues. It is auto-bias. No worries. If you want to swap tubes ("tube rolling"), you can, but you do not have to and right now with the stock JJ E88CC tubes it is sounding fantastic. You do NOT need experience with tubes to enjoy it. Trust me on this.
One repeated transformers question, please - are the primary Tx windings easily adjustable inside for 100/120/220V operation or they are custom build for each US/EU/JP version?
Ok - you are referring to the power supply transformer. No, they cannot be changed from 120V to 240V.... they are custom built. If you wanted to use a North America (120V) version where 220/240V is used, I recommend an external step down transformer box (2:1 ratio) with a continuous rating of at least 60W (approx. 35W for the player + 15W for the tube stage power supply + some safety margin).
Any ideas to design optional output buffer and analog volume control inside the unit so one can easily connect the power amp directly to Z1ES, please?
Yes, I wrote a post about that in this thread where I mentioned a few different volume control units that could be used. I thought this over and have a good idea how I'd pull it off. I haven't tried it because for the unit I am working on, the customer does not want this.
If you didn't care about having a physical volume knob on the front panel (you'd use the sony remote or the App to control it instead), then it could be done without any drilling of the front panel and the signal path would be very short and clean inside because the actual attenuation device could be mounted in the rear of the unit next to the tube output stage.
And if you wanted an analog input that would also pass into the volume control and tube output stage, I could add a switch for that (so you could hook up an external analog source like a phonostage or iPhone/iPad for streaming Spotify or whatever). :idea:
- Vinnie
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Okay, all that has been said is all well and good the question remains: what are the advantages of your modded Sony over the PSA model?
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Okay, all that has been said is all well and good the question remains: what are the advantages of your modded Sony over the PSA model?
I never heard the PS Audio and don't know how it compares... I'm sorry.
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Okay, all that has been said is all well and good the question remains: what are the advantages of your modded Sony over the PSA model?
At 3x the price of a stock Sony, who cares? Do you think the PSA is 3x better sound?
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A Chevy and at 3x the price, the BMW. Do you think the BMW is 3x a better car? I do!
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And if you wanted an analog input that would also pass into the volume control and tube output stage, I could add a switch for that (so you could hook up an external analog source like a phonostage or iPhone/iPad for streaming Spotify or whatever). :idea:
Vinnie can you talk a little more about this. I like the idea of having one box and being able to remove the Squeezebox from my setup.
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Okay, all that has been said is all well and good the question remains: what are the advantages of your modded Sony over the PSA model?
Seadogs,
Your insistence on this comparison is perplexing. Why are you assuming that the two units have anything in common (except DSD, assuming you are speaking of the new PS Audio Directstream DAC)? They are nowhere in the same category of functionality, position in the system or price point. One is an all-in-one standalone player/server, and one is a new DSD-capable DAC. As has already been enumerated, the player/server has its own storage, it's own GUI interface app, it's own cpu, it's own OS, etc. The PS Audio DAC is a dedicated DAC that requires all the aforementioned pieces to already exist in one's system (plus cabling and power to all)...like any other DAC. The Sony (and modded RWA Sony) is intended for an all-in simplicity...plug and play. And all this functionality wrapped in a package priced 3X less than the PS Audio (maybe 2X once Vinnie is done :) dunno). Apples vs ashtrays.
The PS Audio Directstream DAC (I heard it last week when I spent over 2 hours with CEO Paul McGowan at his PS Audio HQ in Boulder) is to be compared to other $4k+ DSD-capable DACs (there are about 50) to be fair to any reasonable comparison discussion.
It would be like asking if a $2K integrated digital dac/amp outperforms a $6k dedicated preamp. Maybe due to synergy, but I doubt it..and in what function can they be compared? only switching and volume control really. The former has amplification and digital inputs, the latter needs a DAC and amps already in place to compete and compare.
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Seadogs,
Your insistence on this comparison is perplexing. Why are you assuming that the two units have anything in common (except DSD, assuming you are speaking of the new PS Audio Directstream DAC)? They are nowhere in the same category of functionality, position in the system or price point. One is an all-in-one standalone player/server, and one is a new DSD-capable DAC. As has already been enumerated, the player/server has its own storage, it's own GUI interface app, it's own cpu, it's own OS, etc. The PS Audio DAC is a dedicated DAC that requires all the aforementioned pieces to already exist in one's system (plus cabling and power to all)...like any other DAC. The Sony (and modded RWA Sony) is intended for an all-in simplicity...plug and play. And all this functionality wrapped in a package priced 3X less than the PS Audio (maybe 2X once Vinnie is done :) dunno). Apples vs ashtrays.
The PS Audio Directstream DAC (I heard it last week when I spent over 2 hours with CEO Paul McGowan at his PS Audio HQ in Boulder) is to be compared to other $4k+ DSD-capable DACs (there are about 50) to be fair to any reasonable comparison discussion.
It would be like asking if a $2K integrated digital dac/amp outperforms a $6k dedicated preamp. Maybe due to synergy, but I doubt it..and in what function can they be compared? only switching and volume control really. The former has amplification and digital inputs, the latter needs a DAC and amps already in place to compete and compare.
Well put!!
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I'm Bad! You're Right!
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And if you wanted an analog input that would also pass into the volume control and tube output stage, I could add a switch for that (so you could hook up an external analog source like a phonostage or iPhone/iPad for streaming Spotify or whatever). :idea:
Vinnie can you talk a little more about this. I like the idea of having one box and being able to remove the Squeezebox from my setup.
Hi Factorz,
Welcome to AC and the RWA forum!
If a volume control is added, then you can connect directly to a power amp (no need for a preamp if you don't want to use one). But, if you have another analog source, such as the output of a phonostage, then I can add an analog input and a switch on the back. The switch will choose between the Z1ES, or the external analog source. Both would go through the remote volume control and the tube output stage. More than one analog IN and OUT could be installed because there should be enough room on that rear panel.
Since the optional volume control and optional input select switch would both be installed in the rear of the unit and close to the tube output stage, the signal path will still be very clean and low noise. With an external battery option, it would be very low noise and even better.
I want to offer a base mod, and then some options that people can pick or not pick, based on their wants/needs. Right now I'm finalizing the base mod. Then I'll be exploring some other mods and options. :
The modded Z1ES is sounding marvelous! It pulls you in and if you are doing late night listening, it could be trouble because you will be low on sleep the next day. :oops:
I'll report more about it later. :singing: :singing: :dance:
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It would be like asking if a $2K integrated digital dac/amp outperforms a $6k dedicated preamp. Maybe due to synergy, but I doubt it..and in what function can they be compared? only switching and volume control really. The former has amplification and digital inputs, the latter needs a DAC and amps already in place to compete and compare.
For me, I only care about sound quality. In stock form, Directstream is PROBABLY superior due to it's discrete analog output stage. But after Vinnie's mod, who knows. It's VERY VERY possible HAP-Z1ES will be superior to Directstream.
Just the fact PS Audio is more expensive, no guarantee it's superior in performance from my experience in this hobby.
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Sure...could be...Vinnie is a genius.....but that wasn't my point. And yes, we all should know by now that price is often not the sonic differentiator.
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For me, I only care about sound quality. In stock form, Directstream is PROBABLY superior due to it's discrete analog output stage. But after Vinnie's mod, who knows. It's VERY VERY possible HAP-Z1ES will be superior to Directstream.
Just the fact PS Audio is more expensive, no guarantee it's superior in performance from my experience in this hobby.
If you want a Direststream, all of April orders are sold out according to their website. PS Audio is now taking May orders.
If I were going to buy a Directstream, I would also buy the 1K Lightspeed USB cable, a $500 power cord, and a $2-3K power conditioner. Hopefully the sound would be great and probably will. Now I am looking at over $10K for the package plus the computer. With Vinnies tube and battery mods on the HAP vs. PS Audio at my house, I know which one will win. :D
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Here's my .02 with consideration only to sound quality.
Due to it's limited input options, people view HAP-Z1ES as entry level. Why do you need all the digital inputs if data is already on the internal HDD before play? IMO, except for pre-loading tracks to the DAC's memory before play, it's probably superior to all external transports feeding the DAC real time.
I heard a professional reviewer replaced the internal HDD with a SS HD with excellent results.
In stock form, it's obvious Directstream is superior due to the discrete analog output stage. But is it a fact Directstream has superior digital processing? With an equivalent analog output stage, is it possible HAP-Z1ES is superior overall?
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I heard a professional reviewer replaced the internal HDD with a SS HD with excellent results.
Hi kngale1,
I want to look into this as well. I'm thinking an equivalent sized 2.5", 1TB SSD can be had for around $500.
Which reviewer replaced the HDD?
In stock form, Directstream is PROBABLY superior due to it's discrete analog output stage. But after Vinnie's mod, who knows. It's VERY VERY possible HAP-Z1ES will be superior to Directstream.
Discrete analog output stage is not always better sounding, either. Other factors are the power supply, clocking, board layout, FPGA, d/a converters, digital filters, choice of parts (resistors, caps, etc) .... implementation - implementation - implementation.
Even the design of the discrete output stage, the FETs used (or BJT's or whatever), how it is biased, Class A or other - this all will have an impact on the sound. Then there is "system matching." In one system, it might sound great. In a different system, the other player might sound better.
Long story short - It is similar to wine in that it is a matter of one's taste. :wine: That is why there might be no clear winner in some comparisons. The same is true for other components and speakers.
And yes, sometimes the more expensive bottle of wine can't hold a candle to one of lesser cost, so price cannot tell us what is better all the time.
And speaking of opinions:
Due to it's limited input options, people view HAP-Z1ES as entry level.
IMHO, the Z1ES is very far from entry level. But yes, when there is talk of the latest USB cable upgrade, the latest Awesome-Sounds 2.0 player to make your computer files sound better, and things like that - it is easy for some to perhaps lose perspective and the very elegant, dedicated, yet simpler design approach of something like the Z1ES design might not be noticed or appreciated. Time will tell...
IMO, except for pre-loading tracks to the DAC's memory before play, it's probably superior to all external transports feeding the DAC real time.
This could prove to be true - at least most of the time. Again, we'll see. But with the Z1ES design, Sony is really onto something!
- Vinnie
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With the “RWA-Z1ES-1”(Red Wine Audio Z1ES Level 1 Upgrade) completed, verified, and with A/B listening tests between the RWA-Z1ES-1 and the stock unit that I also have burned-in, it’s time for an update:
From the first listen to over 24 hours of total listening later, I find that the dual tube output stage addition has delivered a much higher level of soul and vitality to the music. It’s not an “in your face” change that makes it sound like a totally different machine (and I wanted to retain the positive attributes of the stock unit) but definitely NOT subtle either.
The midrange no longer has that somewhat dry character that the stock unit has. There is more tone, more texture, and more life to both vocals and instruments. The overall level of realism has improved with the tubed output stage doing its thing. Be it piano keys striking, guitar strings being plucked, or hearing the body that should be attached to the person singing, everything sounds fuller and more real.
There was another tweak that I did on the audio board (a bypass of sorts) that I found helped tighten up the low freq. bass response. In its stock form, I was hearing a little bit of congestion around 60Hz and below region – this bit of lumpiness in the notes. It turns out that an electrolytic cap in the signal path was solely responsible for that, and it also turns out that it was not needed anymore with the tube output stage. So now the bass articulation is fantastic and pretty much spot on.
As far as the soundstage, there is more of it with the modded unit. It goes from having good depth and “pretty good” width and height to something that is more expansive in all three dimensions. With well-recorded DSD and high res PCM material, you can hear more into the room of the recording. For example, quite a few of albums on the Chesky label were recorded at St. Peter’s Church in NYC. I’m hearing more of that church now (same it true with CJ’s Trinity Sessions), like the subtle nuances that help trick your mind that you are “there” listening in.
What happens with the modified player is that I want to keep listening because I get connected to the music better. It’s that connection with the music that I found a little lacking with the stock player. It’s not that the stock player is not enjoyable to listening to because it is, but it’s a different level of enjoyment for me with the tubes doing that voodoo that they do so well, and that is what has kept me up much too late listening on a few occasions already. When I’m in that zone, I know everything has moved in the right direction and I heard it the first evening of listening to the RWA-Z1ES-1 - and in the first track that I played (speaking of tracks, when I have more time I'd like to list some tracks that I've been testing with so hopefully some of you that know them will get a better idea where I am coming from. But this will take some time).
The “airiness” and fine detail retrieval has not changed, neither has the overall good sense of balance that the stock player exhibits. Now there is just more to the music that I love and the overall sound has a heightened sense of realism. It’s juicier now, with more tone, more texture, more space. It’s a more sophisticated presentation that I connect better with. I found that I do lose some of that when switching back to the stock player (that already is a high achiever), and it is easy to notice when it goes away.
I’m confident that the RWA-Z1ES-1 it will have no problem being compared to much more expensive units - and I have no reservations in making such a statement. 8)
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Where am I going from here?
1A) I need to gear up for RWA-Z1ES-1 modifications. They will be offered for either the SE or BAL outputs. I still need to finish up testing the balanced output version. Pricing needs to be figured out. A webpage on the RWA site needs to be added with more details of the modification and some pics need to be taken. I hope to have this all set up and ready by early next week.
1B) I still need to look into add-on options such as the volume controlled output (and analog input) for those who expressed interest in feeding directly to a power amp. This isn't a "next level" of modifications. It will just be an added option that the user can choose based on their needs.
1C) Look into an SSD upgrade option.
2) For the next level, which would be the "RWA-Z1ES-2" I'll be focusing on improvements to the power supply sections. Higher grade filtering and decoupling capacitors, ultra-fast recovery diodes to replace the stock diode bridges, and lower noise voltage regulators will be explored.
With better quality power feeds to the various sections, I suspect that the gains from the RWA-Z1ES-1 modification can be further realized.
3) Beyond that, I'll be looking into a partial battery powered conversion via a customized Black Lightning LiFePO4 power supply. Maybe it will be the "RWA-Z1ES-3". This would feed the d/a converters, the clocks, and the tube output stages. By replacing the analog transformer and power supply board with an external battery unit, there will be even more space inside for some other ideas that I've been thinking about! :idea: :wink:
ALSO - I will try to be open to other things that might be on your "wish list." Someone emailed be about a headphone stage and a lower powered amplifier stage already. We'll see. Keep the ideas coming. I don't want to promise anything yet, but I will look into them.
As you probably have gathered, I strongly believe in this unit. It is an exceptional platform to work on and I have already proved to myself that it really takes well to modifications. I admire its build quality, ease of use, and "sleeper" style in that it basic and not too flashy on the outside, but is serious on the inside where it really counts. I have bought one for my own use and plan to even bring it to shows. Even more, it now has me working in parallel on some improvements to one of my own products because I see that this modified Sony is surpassing my own! :o :duh:
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie, this is great news coming from your camp - thanks for it! I feel very excited but in fact I didn't expect anything but improvement with your output I/V stage and hope it will be even bigger in "stage 2" with the modded PSUs - looking forward to it!
A side question for your tube stage, please - you already mentioned you removed a 'lytic cap from the signal path (thank God!) but will there be any other input, output, feedback caps in your output stage that can be changed for different sound presentations, please? I am sure I have an input cap on my power amp so if you have an output one it could be safely bypassed, I suppose?
Thanks!
Ivo
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It is the stand-by transformer. So it is always ON if the unit is plugged into a live AC outlet, and supplies a voltage to the microprocessor so the unit can turn ON via the App, , the remote or by pressing the momentary push button on the front panel.
Is the stand-by transformer an universal transformer? I.e. accept voltage input between 100V to 240V, etc. is yes, I might be able to custom-made transformers to replace the two stock transformers to suit my local voltage.
Are you able to extend the tube option to all 12A family, i.e. 12AT and 12AU as well?
My amplifiers is fully-differential therefore I'm only keen in BAL mod.
Thanks!
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Hi Vinnie, this is great news coming from your camp - thanks for it! I feel very excited but in fact I didn't expect anything but improvement with your output I/V stage and hope it will be even bigger in "stage 2" with the modded PSUs - looking forward to it!
A side question for your tube stage, please - you already mentioned you removed a 'lytic cap from the signal path (thank God!) but will there be any other input, output, feedback caps in your output stage that can be changed for different sound presentations, please? I am sure I have an input cap on my power amp so if you have an output one it could be safely bypassed, I suppose?
Thanks!
Ivo
Hi Ivo,
Thank you. I'm really looking forward to even further improvements with level 2 and 3 mods. :hyper:
As far as the other caps, there is one built onto the tube stage board. But I don't recommend playing with it. Instead, what I
recommend is TUBE ROLLIN' to fine-tube the sonic presentation.
For some ideas, see this tube rolling thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91642.0
The comments that I posted about the RWA-Z1ES-1 player is based on stock JJ E88CC tubes. Based on my experience with RWA components that use this tube stage topology, I know there will be some further gains simply from tube rolling! I haven't even gone there yet... but am looking forward to that as well! :singing:
Is the stand-by transformer an universal transformer? I.e. accept voltage input between 100V to 240V, etc. is yes, I might be able to custom-made transformers to replace the two stock transformers to suit my local voltage.
Hi Peter,
No, it is 120V. There is no universal power supply (no switching power supplies) in the Z1ES to allow for 100-240V universal operation.
Are you able to extend the tube option to all 12A family, i.e. 12AT and 12AU as well?
I believe so, but I might have to change some parameters on the tube stage boards and test (if this is really important to you).
As of now, here are the tubes that can be used:
Included tubes
2 x 6922/E88CC dual triode (1 for each channel)
Accepted tubes
(6.3V heater- 6922/E88CC, 6DJ8/ECC88, 7308/E188CC, 7DJ8/PCC88, 6N23, 6H23, 6N11, and 6GM8
(12V heater) - 12AX7/ECC83, E83CC/ECC803, 5751, 12DT7/12DM7/12DF7, 6681, 7058, and 7025
There is a small mini toggle switch installed on each tube stage board. When positioned to the LEFT, the board is configured for 6.3V heater.
When positioned to the RIGHT, the board is configured for the 12V heater.
I will add a simple user's guide with the mods, but it is really easy. For those who don't want to tube roll, you don't even have to open the unit. You just use it and enjoy as is. No maintenance, no fuss or muss.
My amplifiers is fully-differential therefore I'm only keen in BAL mod.
I'll be working on that soon.
- Vinnie
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Fascinating thread, Vinnie. The tube stage you are using, since you have not said or suggested it, I gather it is not the same as your "New Renaissance Edition tube stage", or is it? If not the same, how do the two compare...would it make sense (if possible at all) to include the "Renaissance version" as an available option to the Sony mod?
One more thing--just curious--on the same subject of adding the tube output stage to the Sony, what is the advantage over using stock unit with a world class tube preamp like, for instance, your very own new Isabella ?
Mario
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Fascinating thread, Vinnie. The tube stage you are using, since you have not said or suggested it, I gather it is not the same as your "New Renaissance Edition tube stage", or is it? If not the same, how do the two compare...would it make sense (if possible at all) to include the "Renaissance version" as an available option to the Sony mod?
Hi Mario,
Thank you. Yes, it will be very much like the Renaissance Edition tube stage (just with a couple of small adjustments for use with the Sony).
One more thing--just curious--on the same subject of adding the tube output stage to the Sony, what is the advantage over using stock unit with a world class tube preamp like, for instance, your very own new Isabella ?
I'm not sure I understand the question. I have been using the Isabella R.E. preamplifier the while evaluating both the stock and RWA-Z1ES-1 units.
So in my posts about how the stock unit compares to the RWA-Z1ES-1, they both were feeding the Isabella preamp when testing.
Vinnie
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"I'm not sure I understand the question. I have been using the Isabella R.E. preamplifier the while evaluating both the stock and RWA-Z1ES-1 units.
So in my posts about how the stock unit compares to the RWA-Z1ES-1, they both were feeding the Isabella preamp when testing.
Vinnie"
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Say no more, Vinnie, your response fully answered my question. Adding an extra great tube stage compounds the positive benefits...not too much of a good thing in this case.
Cheers,
Mario
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Vinnie,
How many hours does it take before the hap is burned in? I was very delightfully surprised at the big soundstage the Hap had right out of the box.
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Hi Ivo,
As far as the other caps, there is one built onto the tube stage board. But I don't recommend playing with it. Instead, what I
recommend is TUBE ROLLIN' to fine-tube the sonic presentation.
- Vinnie
Hi Vinnie, I definitely will try the tube rolling and since I am located in Eastern Europe I might try some Russian tubes too which are cheap and widely available around here.
Thanks!
Ivo
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Hey Tom,
Been waiting for you to chime in since it was mentioned that you had ordered one.
How about some comments and maybe comparisons with what you have been using until now or have used in the past. Looking for feedback mainly on sound quality as we have a pretty good handle on functionality.
Come on - spill the beans!!!
Cheers,
Dave
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Will do Dave, but I only have about 12 hours on my machine and I prefer it to be broken in. I hope it isn't hundreds of hours like several of the DACs I have owned.
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Vinnie,
How many hours does it take before the hap is burned in? I was very delightfully surprised at the big soundstage the Hap had right out of the box.
Hi OZT,
I don't think it will take more than 100 hours... probably sooner than that. I'm not sure how many hours were on smargo's unit, but after about 2 days of burn-in after what was on his, I did not notice any more change with the stock unit. I'm glad you are enjoying it right out of the box.
It is NOT "hundreds of hours," so no worries.
Hi Vinnie, I definitely will try the tube rolling and since I am located in Eastern Europe I might try some Russian tubes too which are cheap and widely available around here.
Hi Ivo,
Sounds good, and when the time comes, please keep us posted!
------
Today I ordered parts to start RWA-Z1ES-2 modifications. I should have them by the end of the week and will hopefully have time this weekend to play some more.
Another thing that I will be ordering is a 1TB SSD.
In the meantime, I need to get working on adding RWA-Z1ES-1 to our website.
Vinnie
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Hi Peter,
No, it is 120V. There is no universal power supply (no switching power supplies) in the Z1ES to allow for 100-240V universal operation.
I believe so, but I might have to change some parameters on the tube stage boards and test (if this is really important to you).
Hi Vinnie, thanks for the prompt reply! Great info as well.
If one were to tube rolling, I believe that he/she would be curious enough to try all possibilities. Moreover, 12AXX family is widely available worldwide, especially true in US. So make the tube output stage as universal as possible would be an added advantage.
After all each has their own listening preference.
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Hey Tom,
Been waiting for you to chime in since it was mentioned that you had ordered one.
How about some comments and maybe comparisons with what you have been using until now or have used in the past. Looking for feedback mainly on sound quality as we have a pretty good handle on functionality.
Come on - spill the beans!!!
Cheers,
Dave
Others components are equally important! I'm very happy with the stock unit.
May be it has passed 150hrs, or even 200hrs, for now.
My impression is the more the unit run-in, you can click the volume as high as possible without any stress to your ears.
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I was hoping you could change volume with the app, so Vinnie needs to add volume control to mine.
Let's see, tube mod plus volume control and probably the battery mod. I have a lot of SLA batteries sitting around the house. Will we be able to use the battery mod with those type of batteries?
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If one were to tube rolling, I believe that he/she would be curious enough to try all possibilities. Moreover, 12AXX family is widely available worldwide, especially true in US. So make the tube output stage as universal as possible would be an added advantage.
I understand. I'll need to test others in the 12AXX family to be sure, but for now, 12AX7 works great.
I was hoping you could change volume with the app, so Vinnie needs to add volume control to mine.
Let's see, tube mod plus volume control and probably the battery mod. I have a lot of SLA batteries sitting around the house. Will we be able to use the battery mod with those type of batteries?
Hi OZT,
The battery mod for the dacs, clocks and analog output stage (still not developed at this time) would require the use of an external battery power supply that I would custom design make for this application. It would be LiFePO4 powered, with regulated voltages to replace the various voltage feeds from the stock supply, etc.
Vinnie
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I understand. I'll need to test others in the 12AXX family to be sure, but for now, 12AX7 works great.
Hi Vinnie,
You shall not hurry! Take your time because you're leading in this mod! :icon_lol: And you may implement this feature (12AXX family) to the rest of your line!
Moreover, battery mod is another selling point!
Do you've the stock unit enough run-in, you may leave it on 24/7.
My unit just sounds gorgeous! Should have passed 250hrs by now.
Is there any sonic advantages if the unit run in full battery mode?
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Hi Vinnie, I definitely will try the tube rolling and since I am located in Eastern Europe I might try some Russian tubes too which are cheap and widely available around here.
Thanks!
Ivo
I'd suggest you to get a used unit (cheaper price) from US, and send it to Vinie for mod (one way ticket to Euro only). :icon_lol:
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Do you've the stock unit enough run-in, you may leave it on 24/7. My unit just sounds gorgeous! Should have passed 250hrs by now.
Is there any sonic advantages if the unit run in full battery mode?
Hi Peter,
My stock unit has been running 24/7 on repeat mode connected to a 5k load (to allow the most amount of current to flow through the output stage without overloading it). I'd say it is around 200 hours now.
Converting the entire unit over to battery power would require a larger eternal battery supply with multiple packs, regulators, heat-sinking, etc. It would be very expensive as well. The stock unit draws around 35W at 120Vac, so while it is not some Class A power monger furnace/amplifier, it does draw a fair amount of continuous power with its linear power supplies.
I think to get the best bang-for-the-buck in terms of running on external LiFePO4 battery power, the following should have their own clean, regulated battery feeds:
1) The two d/a converters
2) Clock section (Xtals, Clock buffer IC, Counter IC)
3) Tube output stage
1, 2 and 3 cover clocking, d/a conversion, and analog output - all super important to obtain the very best sound quality. Other things like the display, MCU, SDRAM, FPGA, USB, ETHERNET, WIFI, etc. can remain powered on AC. Sure, converting all of it to battery would be even better, but most likely will not make for the same level of improvement that I suspect doing 1 - 3 above will make.
But before I get into the battery conversion, I plan to work on modifying the power supply sections - this weekend. This should take the power supply performance closer to that of clean battery feeds and will be less expensive.
I'd suggest you to get a used unit (cheaper price) from US, and send it to Vinie for mod (one way ticket to Euro only).
Let me find out if I can get these from Sony at a discounted rate. I'm not sure if Sony will be interested in having me sell them, but I'll try. If I can't, then you guys can also buy them online from numerous sources such as Sony Store, Amazon, Crutchfield, Music Direct, B&H Photo, and others - and have them shipped directly to me for modification.
I should also be able to get the RWA-Z1ES-1 stage modification on our website this weekend and will post a link.
Vinnie
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Time for a couple of pics. This RWA-Z1ES-1 shipped out today to smargo (many thanks to smargo for sending it in for me to look into and develop the first mod package for):
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96642)
This is a more zoomed-out shot. The upper left of the pic (rear of the player) shows the dedicated linear power supply installation with for the tube output stage, with added heat-sinks. The Standby transformer board is moved over a few cm's to the right to fit the tube stage power supply. The power feeds to all 4 transformers (3 stock, + the tube stage power supply) are hard wired to the board now. This eliminates the molex type connectors for a cleaner, more reliable connection. Also hard wired the power feed from the IEC power jack to the Standby board.
Top cover (not shown) now held into place with (3) 6-32 size, stainless thumbscrews for easy cover removal and tube rolling. Vibration damping added to top cover underside so it no longer rings like a bell.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96641)
Dual tube output stage, zoomed-in. Hard wiring (ALO stranded OFC copper) from audio board to tube stage boards, bypassing stock header that connected the audio board to a daughter board that had the stock RCA jacks (which has been removed, permanently). New Vampire Wire RCA output jacks. Stock JJ E88CC tubes installed and ready for action.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96643)
Rear panel shot. Stock RCA jack holes covered. New Vampire RCA jacks shown. New screws installed to mount tube stage boards and their filament regulators. Panel gets warm (as does the top cover over the tube stage power supply and over the tubes) but never hot to the touch. :flame:
Tube stages automatically switches ON when you turn ON the player, and OFF when shut down. Tube stages have an auto-mute warm up delay of approx. 45 seconds to allow for tube warm up, then apply the B+ and and un-mute the outputs. To the user, its all seamless. Added power consumption is about 20W (not bad!), bringing the total power consumption to 55W max.
That's the RWA-Z1ES-1 (single-ended) modification in a nutshell. Will be added to website most likely this weekend. Price will be set to $1195 + shipping.
I'll be getting into the next phase (RWA-Z1ES-2) over this weekend as well. As mentioned before, this will be an upgrade of critical power supply rail decoupling caps on the audio board, an upgrade of analog and digital power supply board storage and decoupling caps, bridge rectifier upgrades, power input filtering, etc...
I also need to work on some options such as:
1) Remote volume controlled outputs, plus analog input jacks and switch
2) Replace HDD with SSD
3) RWA-Z1ES-1-BAL (the mod above for the XLR output stage).
Beyond that - we go Level 3 with external battery power for critical sections of the d/a conversion, clocks and tube output stage.... but stop rushing me!!! :green:
And as mentioned before, I can look into items that you might have on your wish list. Some did email me about installing the Isabella R.E. preamp board on the back panel... you sick and twisted individual you! I love it! :beer:
Vinnie
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Vinnie, congratulations - very nice looking and well made mods - thanks!
And yes, the quality still comes with price and I need to save even more now...;-)
Question about the output board, please - will it be able to drive directly power amp/headphones when volume pot is installed or additional buffer/pre-amp board still will be required, please?
Keep on doing the good work!
Best, Ivo
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Vinnie, congratulations - very nice looking and well made mods - thanks!
And yes, the quality still comes with price and I need to save even more now...;-)
Question about the output board, please - will it be able to drive directly power amp/headphones when volume pot is installed or additional buffer/pre-amp board still will be required, please?
Hi Ivo,
Thank you! :notworthy:
The output stage is not a headphone amp, so it will not drive the low impedances of headphones. For that, a dedicated headphone stage can be added along with a volume control. The output stage IS fine with driving a preamp, integrated amp, or power amp. That's what it is all about! :D
My thinking is that for those who want a built-in volume control, I can implement it on the input side of the tube stage. Then the volume controlled signal will pass through the tube stage. It should work very well at driving a power amp or monoblocks.
To those who want a remote volume control - do you know which make/model you are most interested in?
1) Goldpoint / DACT
2) Tortuga LDR
3) Alps Blue Velvet (continuous potentiometer)
4) Bent TVC / Slagleformer style
4) Other - please list.
Happy Friday,
Vinnie
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Thanks, Vinnie!
Do you think the tube stage will drive happily 2 x Naim-clone mono-blocks in parallel/bi-amp configuration per channel, please?
Each mono-block has 22K Ohm input impedance so two of them in parallel will be seen like 10K Ohm load - is this high enough for the tubes or a buffer stage will be preferred, as well?
As for the volume pots, I don't have much personal experience except with the Alps but if you can provide price for all the options and based on your experience and recommendation people will be able to make their choices easier, I suppose.
Best,
Ivo
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Thanks, Vinnie!
Do you think the tube stage will drive happily 2 x Naim-clone mono-blocks in parallel/bi-amp configuration per channel, please?
Each mono-block has 22K Ohm input impedance so two of them in parallel will be seen like 10K Ohm load - is this high enough for the tubes or a buffer stage will be preferred, as well?
As for the volume pots, I don't have much personal experience except with the Alps but if you can provide price for all the options and based on your experience and recommendation people will be able to make their choices easier, I suppose.
Best,
Ivo
Have same related issue, Vinnie...more specifically, what is the output impedance of Tube RCA analog output pair?
Thanks,
Mario
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Have same related issue, Vinnie...more specifically, what is the output impedance of Tube RCA analog output pair?
Thanks,
Mario
Guys,
I posted this earlier in the thread. Output impedance is less than 1k (I believe it is actually less than 500 ohm - I need to confirm), and I have tested it driving 10k loads with ease. It will be fine with 10k loads or higher. It probably can drive lower than 10k loads, but I have not tested that.
No need for any additional buffering if you are driving two 22k input amps in parallel.
I'll look into those volume controls and pricing. Best bang-for-the-buck will be the Remote Alps Blue Velvet pot. Most expensive
will be TVC's. Not sure how they would stack up against Tortuga's offerings, or a remote Goldpoint stepped attenuator.
Vinnie
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Thanks , Vinnie. Will much appreciate if you could confirm actual value of output impedance in final product. Intended use would be for a bi-amp configuration using a Passive Line Level X-Over, where, as you know, actual values of impedances at I/O's are important for correct implementation.
Thanks,
Mario
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Vinnie, thanks for the update - I must have missed that info for the output impedance, I am sorry!
But I am happy the tubes can drive 10K Ohm without a problem and with the integrated volume pot this means one pre-amp unit less in the signal path.
Ivo
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Looking forward to hearing smargo's comments.
Some did email me about installing the Isabella R.E. preamp board on the back panel... you sick and twisted individual you! I love it! :beer:
Vinnie
What are the implications of doing this?
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Thanks , Vinnie. Will much appreciate if you could confirm actual value of output impedance in final product. Intended use would be for a bi-amp configuration using a Passive Line Level X-Over, where, as you know, actual values of impedances at I/O's are important for correct implementation.
Hi Mario,
- I tested it with the stock JJ E88CC tube. Output impedance is a low 180 ohms (0.18k). You should get fine results driving any load >5k.
- I also tested a JJ ECC83 (12AX7) and the output impedance was ~ 700 ohms (0.7k)... still under 1k and that would be fine driving any load >10k.
Vinnie, thanks for the update - I must have missed that info for the output impedance, I am sorry!
But I am happy the tubes can drive 10K Ohm without a problem and with the integrated volume pot this means one pre-amp unit less in the signal path.
Hi Ivo,
No problem - it's a fairly dense thread already, so some things are probably going to need to be repeated here and there. :P
Some did email me about installing the Isabella R.E. preamp board on the back panel... you sick and twisted individual you! I love it!
Vinnie
"What are the implications of doing this?"
Hi finsup,
I haven't really looked much into it, and it is probably too early for me to get into, but I will take a shot at explaining it:
For someone who only needs single-ended RCA outputs, there is enough space on the HAP-Z1ES's rear panel to fit the Isabella Renaissance Edition board. This would allow for 2 sets of RCA inputs (e.g. for a Phonostage, or other analog sources), 2 sets of volume controlled RCA outputs, and a 0/12dB gain switch. I would think that 0dB would be fine for most (preserving the ~ 2Vrms output voltage), but 12dB could be welcome with power amps with less gain, or when a low output phonostage is connected.
Why would one want to use the Isabella board instead of the tube buffers already posted above?
- I'm not going to lie - the Isabella preamp board is even better sounding! :drool:
- Can accept 6H30s as well as 6922's (BUT DOES NOT ACCPET 12AX7, sorry).
- Already has RCA inputs that can be switched (relay controlled on the actual preamp board) - so only an input select switch that controls the relays would be needed to select the Sony's output stage, or one of the other 2 analog inputs.
- It would also mean adding a remote volume control, and you essentially get a modded Z1ES with built-in preamplifier, all rear-mounted for very clean layout. No need for interconnects to pass to another preamp.
- Could be powered by an external Black Lightning LiFePO4 battery power supply for the ultimate results :weights: , or we can power from an internal mounted linear power supply like we are doing with the RWA-Z1ES-1.
- Will be less expensive than buying a separate Isabella preamplifier.
-----
The part that still would need to be figured out is the remote volume control (I'd want it to work with the Sony remote and iPad/iPhone/Android App), and the input select switch (it would be much easier to put it on the rear, but if it needs to be on the front, it might require drilling the enclosure and I'm not sure how equipped I am for doing that :duh:).
With regards to the volume control option, I was thinking that it would only be controlled via the Sony remote or the App, but every time you turn it OFF it would bring the volume down to MIN (so you always know it is muted when you start listening and then you set the level). I could also more easily put the actual volume knob on the back (for those who require a physical knob to turn), but I don't see that it is that necessary.
So there you have it - the crazy idea that could be insanely good! :idea: It would mostly appeal to those who want a built-in preamp. But it could actually be used without a volume control (fixed outputs) and we still can allow for an analog input or two.
I wanted to let you all know what is possible, even if these ideas are outside the RWA-Z1ES-1 / 2 / 3 modifications. They could still very well be excellent options to offer. One can pick the mod package that best suites their needs and budget.
Let me know what YOU guys think. :)
Vinnie
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Hey Tom,
Been waiting for you to chime in since it was mentioned that you had ordered one.
How about some comments and maybe comparisons with what you have been using until now or have used in the past. Looking for feedback mainly on sound quality as we have a pretty good handle on functionality.
Come on - spill the beans!!!
Cheers,
Dave
Well Dave, just get you one of these Sony's. I have over 100 hours on mine now. Sony has hit a home run with this unit, no doubt, Vinnie will hit a grand slam with his modded one. Now you don't have to get any mods for the Hap to sound good, stock it sounds very organic, non-digital, non-fatiguing. In SS DACs, I have owned Antelope Gold-voltikus, Antelope Black, Eximus DP1, and listened to the Weiss 202 Dac. The Sony easily is better than these DACs with the Mac mini.
I have also owned the Lampizator 3 and AMR DP777 tube units. The Sony approaches the sound of these units, very airy and musical. The Hap has even a wider soundstage than those two units, but not as tall. No doubt Vinnie's tube mod will remedy that. For those that like to constantly improve their system, just buy one of Vinnie's mods one at a time. Or buy them all.
Sony did a wonderful job offering this unit to us and now Vinnie will make the Hap sound even better. :thumb:
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Thanks a lot, Vinnie. That's exactly what I needed. Interesting thing learned is that output impedance changes depending on tube type....does it remain (or tend to remain) the same across tube brands for same tube type, as one tube-roll?
Mario
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Vinnie, similar question as the above, please - which tube parameter affects and is there a formula to calculate the output impedance of your output stage, please?
Thanks,
Ivo
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"In SS DACs, I have owned Antelope Gold-voltikus, Antelope Black, Eximus DP1, and listened to the Weiss 202 Dac. The Sony easily is better than these DACs with the Mac mini."
Thanks Tom,
This was just the information I was looking for. I'm quite surprised that you felt that the HAP sonically surpassed the fine DACS that you mentioned - some very high caliber performers. I am using an Antelope Zodiac+ with a unibody MacMini (SSD) and Audirvana Plus. I love the functionality of the Sony but do not want to go backwards SQ-wise.
Being largely computer literate I had little problem with the intricacies of configuring and running a Mac optimized for computer audio processing, however the Sony solution just seems so seamless and integrated in it's ability to play the gamut of currently available audio files.
The nice part for me is that this deck is the same price here in Canada as it is in the US (even though our currency is presently at a more than 10% disadvantage and Sony offers a 30 day full money back guarantee. Seems like a can't lose proposition.
Tom, are there anymore comments you can offer with regards to sound quality as your comparisons go along way towards legitimizing the HAP as a "no compromise" digital music file platform.
Have you tried any DSD files for evaluation?
Thank you in advance for you're additional info.
Best,
Dave
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Why would one want to use the Isabella board instead of the tube buffers already posted above?
Thanks for the detailed information Vinnie.
I wanted to let you all know what is possible, even if these ideas are outside the RWA-Z1ES-1 / 2 / 3 modifications. They could still very well be excellent options to offer. One can pick the mod package that best suites their needs and budget.
Are you looking at adding a digital input? That would make a lot of guys who have different sources happy they could use the Sony DAC.
XLR outputs?
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Being largely computer literate I had little problem with the intricacies of configuring and running a Mac optimized for computer audio processing, however the Sony solution just seems so seamless and integrated in it's ability to play the gamut of currently available audio files.
Tom, are there anymore comments you can offer with regards to sound quality as your comparisons go along way towards legitimizing the HAP as a "no compromise" digital music file platform.
Have you tried any DSD files for evaluation?
No DSD files yet Dave. I just wanted to listen what I am the most familiar with until broken in. Antelope Zodiacs in my system sounded more digital, Sony sounds more analog, but does not give up the detail at all. I always had problems with Amarra, computer, and Itunes always shutting off, so that is one of the reasons I had to try this. This is well built, weighing 31 pounds.
Another positive I found out this morning, high WAF. My wife can easily turn it on and play the internet radio. Before she never would touch it. Also she likes the appearance, it gets rid of of extra components and cables in the living room.
For Sony offering a 30 day trial, Sony is very confident in this product.
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All,
Just got this up, and it clearly needs more work. But it's a start and it makes it official now! :thumb:
http://redwineaudio.com/mods/rwa-z1es-x
Thanks a lot, Vinnie. That's exactly what I needed. Interesting thing learned is that output impedance changes depending on tube type....does it remain (or tend to remain) the same across tube brands for same tube type, as one tube-roll?
Hi Mario,
It should remain close as you tube roll, assuming the tubes you put in are in good shape. I'd say within +/- 20% (probably better than that) of what I mentioned above.
Vinnie, similar question as the above, please - which tube parameter affects and is there a formula to calculate the output impedance of your output stage, please?
Thanks,
Ivo
Hi Ivo,
There is no formula for my tube stage design where you can plug a parameter on the datasheet and correlate it to the output impedance. For now, I feel comfortable stating (as it pertains to MY tube stage design):
Output impedance for 6922 family (180 ohms +/- 20%)
Output impedance for 12AX7 family (700 ohms +/- 20%)
If I ever find any evidence that shows me otherwise, I'll be sure to update. The 6922 and 12AX7 tube specs from mfgr. to mfgr. over the years has not deviated that much to show me (again, in this tube stage), that you'd get more deviation than this in terms of output impedance unless you have a tube that's old and beat. :shake:
Are you looking at adding a digital input? That would make a lot of guys who have different sources happy they could use the Sony DAC.
XLR outputs?
Hi finsup,
Regarding doing the RWA-Z1ES-1-BAL (the same mod but to the balanced output stage instead of the single-ended stage), YES - I do plan to offer this. But I haven't tested it yet, and I am probably going to be looking into the power supply stage mods next... but I'll get to the BAL soon enough...
As for adding a digital input - here's the rub:
This is a highly dedicated player that has a direct feed from the FPGA (where the I2S signals are generated) to the two d/a chips. To bring in a digital signal externally, it would require that the signal (be it USB, or SPDIF) be converted to I2S to feed the d/a chips. That is easy enough to do... but where it gets messy is adding the switching to select between the FPGA's I2S signal (when playing the Sony), or the external digital source's converted over I2S signal. ANY type of switching that is done to select between the two will have an impact on what you feed the d/a converters (so both I2S feeds have the potential of not being as clean when you do switching like this). I2S are "board level" signals and are delicate. Their feeds should be impedance matched from source to sink (e.g. From FPGA to the d/a converters in the Sony, and upon scoping them, they do look very clean). After adding the switch, which is usually done via a MUX chip, you will be degrading these delicate I2S lines .... adding jitter and other distortions.
Sony actually does allow for eternal digital inputs on their HAP-S1 player. This is not their flagship product (it is $1000 less than the Z1ES, even though it adds external digital inputs and a built-in speaker amplifier!), but after looking at pictures of the inside of the S1, I can see why. They are not even trying to come close to the Z1ES's performance, and in that case, switching I2S lines probably doesn't matter as much because I doubt they are nearly as clean as the Z1ES's to begin with. Note - I am not saying this as a matter of fact (I haven't tested and compared), but this is my suspicion from what I see inside the S1. And I have to be honest and say that I do not know if adding an external digital input (and the switching) could easily be done in such as way as to not have an impact on the I2S feed.
It would take a lot of people interested in this feature for me to even want to look into it. Sure - I can probably whip up something in a day or two that works and I could offer. But how good will it be? If it were to give up anything that the RWA-Z1ES-1 is delivering, I'd say forget it. I also believe it kind of goes against what this player is all about, which is all-in-one simplicity, with fewer compromises. I don't know if I made this point clear before, but for $2K, SONY REALLY NAILED IT!!!! There is a good reason why I was very excited to get back into modding home audio components again... it is that good! I've been to few dealers who use much more expensive products (that do similar things as the Sony), and I'd LOVE to one day compare them because I don't hear them whipping the Z1ES's butt - especially modded. :singing: :guitar: :eyebrows:
Vinnie
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It would take a lot of people interested in this feature for me to even want to look into it. Sure - I can probably whip up something in a day or two that works and I could offer. But how good will it be? If it were to give up anything that the RWA-Z1ES-1 is delivering, I'd say forget it. I also believe it kind of goes against what this player is all about, which is all-in-one simplicity, with fewer compromises. I don't know if I made this point clear before, but for $2K, SONY REALLY NAILED IT!!!! There is a good reason why I was very excited to get back into modding home audio components again... it is that good! I've been to few dealers who use much more expensive products (that do similar things as the Sony), and I'd LOVE to one day compare them because I don't hear them whipping the Z1ES's butt - especially modded. :singing: :guitar: :eyebrows:
Vinnie
The analogy is adding inputs to a fuel tank in a car. One via airplane ... Why? Why not just fill up and go? I don't get it ... A Dac is car without a fuel tank and HAP-Z1ES is a car with a fuel tank.
I guess you can add all the available digital inputs, jack up the price and now it competes with similar higher price Dacs. More capabilities, more $$ so must be superior? :scratch:
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The analogy is adding inputs to a fuel tank in a car. One via airplane ... Why? Why not just fill up and go? I don't get it ... A Dac is car without a fuel tank and HAP-Z1ES is a car with a fuel tank.
I guess you can add all the available digital inputs, jack up the price and now it competes with similar higher price Dacs. More capabilities, more $$ so must be superior? :scratch:
In stock form it competes with much higher priced DACs, Vinnie is just super-charging it. :thumb:
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The analogy is adding inputs to a fuel tank in a car. One via airplane ... Why? Why not just fill up and go? I don't get it ... A Dac is car without a fuel tank and HAP-Z1ES is a car with a fuel tank.
I guess you can add all the available digital inputs, jack up the price and now it competes with similar higher price Dacs. More capabilities, more $$ so must be superior? :scratch:
Hi kngale1,
Ok - you lost me on this one! :scratch: :green:
In stock form it competes with much higher priced DACs, Vinnie is just super-charging it.
Oh, yes! Making it "more better-er!" 8)
And one more thing about adding an external digital input(s)... you would really want to do everything you can to minimize GND loops and GND
noise from the external digital source(s) from contaminating the clean digital GND of the Z1ES (especially with battery conversion modification package that will be coming out next month...). Galvanic isolation, for starters...
Vinnie
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Hi kngale1,
Ok - you lost me on this one! :scratch: :green:
Gas tank is equivalent to HDD in HAP-Z1ES. If there's a gas tank to hold the fuel, why do you need inputs to fuel the vehicle real-time. :?
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Gas tank is equivalent to HDD in HAP-Z1ES. If there's a gas tank to hold the fuel, why do you need inputs to fuel the vehicle real-time. :?
Ok - got it now! :lol:
UPDATES
Today I have been working on RWA-Z1ES-2. This adds upgrades the both power supply boards, and I also added a C-L-C power input filter.
All 20 diodes that made up the 5 main bridge rectifiers (yes, there are FIVE separate main power feeds in this beast) have been replaced
with high-current, super fast switching SiC diodes.
Power supply filtering caps on both the analog and digital boards have been replaced with Nichicon MUSE.
I had to raise the analog power supply board about 0.25" with standoffs in order to fit the larger, beefier under-mount diodes.
I still need to replace certain caps on the audio board (to complete the RWA-Z1ES-2 modification package), but I am going to first listen to how it sounds so far.
Will report more soon...
Vinnie
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I still need to replace certain caps on the audio board (to complete the RWA-Z1ES-2 modification package), but I am going to first listen to how it sounds so far.
Will report more soon...
Vinnie
Vinnie, what output caps do you use? Any plans to offer cap options? Duelund, Jupiter ...
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Vinnie, what output caps do you use? Any plans to offer cap options? Duelund, Jupiter ...
Hi kngale1,
The only cap is the output cap that follows the tube stage. It is a Wima MKS2 with a polystyrene bypass. I really love this combo together with
the tube output stage circuit! Very open and natural, and overall quite neutral. So I would leave it alone and then play with some NOS tubes to fine tune the sound signature.
RWA-Z1ES-2
Definitely getting an improvement from the power supply board upgrades - last night listening showed even better decay, micro detail retrieval,
and more silence between the notes. I still need to update the power supply caps on the audio boards to finalize this mod package, but so was impressed with what the SiC diodes, Muse caps, and C-L-C power input filtering are bringing to the table!
This leads me to believe that taking the next step into battery power for the critical sections is going to make this a mind-blowing source! I'm very excited and please with how things are turning out with this!!! :bounce:
Vinnie
-
hi guys see that some have the HAPZIES UNIT. I HAD PROBLEMS WITH THIS UNIT . 25000 CDS RIPPED PLUS 100 HIGH RES ALUMS. XTENDED UNIT WITH 2 TERA. COULDNT GET ANY MOBILE APP WORKING PROPERLY /STOP/STARTING /SLUGGISH ETC READ SOME WERE IT CAN ONLY COPE WITH 20000 TRACKS SAY 1000ALBUMS. CAND SOMEONE CONFIRM THAT THEY HAVE MORE THAN A 1000 CDS ON UNIT AND IT WORKS PERFECT.
I was not happy with this unit so I took it back for refund.// £2000 it costs in u.k.
would like to repurchase if because I want to get away from streaming and do like the dsd sound too. sony support UKwas poor . very poor any one help please allan Yorkshire uk
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should 2500 cds thanks
-
With just 1TB, it wont hold much in the way of DSD ISO. I guess it will do more if you have DSF albums. Still with DSD and Hirez, you can easily run up to more than 4 TB fast.
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With just 1TB, it wont hold much in the way of DSD ISO. I guess it will do more if you have DSF albums. Still with DSD and Hirez, you can easily run up to more than 4 TB fast.
Wisnon, poster is not inquiring about unit's internal drive "capacity" (which, obviously, depends on the type of files stored). He wants to know if any actual users have also experienced operational sluggishness and other problems that he experienced with unit when loaded with about 20,000 tracks from CDs. He basically wants to ascertain if unit he owned and then returned was most likely defective--since he appears to really like the concept behind unit's design (never mind your "so last century" assessment :scratch:). Incidentally, this sort of user experience becomes relevant for those contemplating owning a modified unit since Sony's warranty would be invalidated.
Mario
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Gentlemen, if Vinnie don't mind I suggest to keep this thread related with his modifications only.
Thanks,
Ivo
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Gentlemen, if Vinnie don't mind I suggest to keep this thread related with his modifications only.
Thanks,
Ivo
Sorry, Ivo.....but I thought that potential Vinnie's mod owners (like yourself) could benefit, just as Alan 1946, from learning about actual user experience from stock unit owners. If Alan1946's returned unit happens to be a fluke, we could all be at peace, couldn't we?
Mario
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Here's a couple stock HAP threads, one of which Alan1946 also posted to. I agree; leave stock issues over there.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124685.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=123436.0
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I am sure Vinnie wouldn't mind me squashing this. I had 3tb's worth of DSD full on a external and the 1tb internal full without issue. Ok now back to hearing about Vinnies exciting stuff!
If anyone has questions about this they can PM me.
-
hi guys see that some have the HAPZIES UNIT. I HAD PROBLEMS WITH THIS UNIT . 25000 CDS RIPPED PLUS 100 HIGH RES ALUMS. XTENDED UNIT WITH 2 TERA. COULDNT GET ANY MOBILE APP WORKING PROPERLY /STOP/STARTING /SLUGGISH ETC READ SOME WERE IT CAN ONLY COPE WITH 20000 TRACKS SAY 1000ALBUMS. CAND SOMEONE CONFIRM THAT THEY HAVE MORE THAN A 1000 CDS ON UNIT AND IT WORKS PERFECT.
I was not happy with this unit so I took it back for refund.// £2000 it costs in u.k.
would like to repurchase if because I want to get away from streaming and do like the dsd sound too. sony support UKwas poor . very poor any one help please allan Yorkshire uk
Hi anan1946,
Welcome to AC and the RWA forum! I have not had experience with loading 2500 CDs yet. I've been 'cherry-picking' some of my favorites so far. I wonder if the problem has to do with the fact that you were using a 2TB external USB drive (vs. if a larger HDD was installed inside the unit)?
I recommend you also post here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=123436.0
as this is a more general discussion thread about the stock player than this RWA thread, which is more "modification-centric." Hopefully your post will get more exposure there and responses from those who already have > 1000 albums loaded.
-----
RWA-Z1ES-2
Last night I completed the upgrade to the power supply rail decoupling caps on the audio board (the ones for the d/a chips and clocking). I'm happy to report that Z1ES-2 was successful in:
- Bringing better attack and decay of the notes.
- Offering more silence between the notes from a blacker background level.
- Enhancing fine-detail retrieval.
It really unravels more information out of well-recorded high resolution tracks. Shelby Lynne's "Just a Little Lovin" in DSD is an example of a dream album that shows off how good it can get! :drool:
I added the RWA-Z1ES-2 package to our website:
http://redwineaudio.com/mods/rwa-z1es-x
It includes everything from RWA-Z1ES-2, but the power supply board mods and well as more vibration damping inside the enclosure.
I know, I know ... more pictures need to be added to the website. I'll get there, but for now I need to put the time into the modification R&D
and will catch up with the website after.
OPTIONS
I am still working out options that can be added to Z1ES-1 or Z1ES-2 packages if desired, such as:
Volume controlled output: I spoke with John Chapman of Bent Audio yesterday and discussed volume controls. We both believe that the remote controlled stereo Alps pot would give the best value / bang-for-the-buck. The idea (still to be tested here this week) is that it would be installed on the rear panel (as close to the tube stage boards as possible for the shortest, cleanest signal path). It would be controlled via the Sony remote handset, or the Sony App. The MUTE feature on the remote/app would also work. And when you turn the unit ON, the volume would return to MIN before the unit even boots up. The reason for this is because there would not be a display on the front panel to show the volume position.
- The other option (which can also be offered as an upgrade) is the more expensive Bent Hybrid Resistor board (60 position stepped attenuator volume control boards in a shunt configuration, so only one precision resistor in the signal path). The would also be remote controlled with MUTE feature like the Alps pot above, with return to MIN volume upon boot up.
I'm also thinking that with the Bent Hybrid Resistor option, their PRM-1 controller could be mounted to the front panel. I'm not too sure how it would look there, but it is doable and allows for one to see the volume setting and also control it from the front panel - for those who really want to know where the volume control is set to and be able to control it w/o a remote.
- For those who want to take it to the extreme, the Bent Slagleformer (TVC) modules could be implemented! These are probably one of the finest volume controls available. You pay a premium for them, but if you want to do away with your preamp and want the very best, this should do it! Again, the PRM-1 controller could be installed on the front.
Do check out these Bent Audio offerings: http://bentaudio.com/index2.html
NOTE - I haven't tried installing these in the Sony yet, but I am quite confident that it could be done. So contact me if you want to be the first to do it.
Anlog input: This option can be added for someone who wants to feed their analog source into the RWA-Z1ES-1/2 for it to go through the remote volume control and tube output stage. Like the remote volume control option, this is for those who don't want to use a preamplifier in their system - but the analog input would allow for an analog source (e.g. Phonostage) to be added.
Upgrade to SSD:
- I am finally going to order a 1TB SSD today and test it out. I think we all know about the advantages of going from HDD to SSD.
RWA-Z1ES-1-BAL and RWA-Z1ES-2-BAL
- The same mod packages as the single-ended version, only applied to the balanced (XLR) outputs instead of the single-ended (RCA) output jacks.
-----
RWA-Z1ES-3
I'll be working on making a custom, external Black Lightning LiFePO4 battery power supply to provide super clean, high-current power to the d/a converters, clocks, and tube output stages, oh my! :green:
I'd like for this external battery to automatically turn ON and OFF when the Sony player is turned ON/OFF so you don't have to think about it. But there could also be a mode that keeps it turned OFF (when you have the Sony ON just for transferring music). This will take a couple of weeks to develop, but I expect some really good things with it!
User Reviews / Testimonials
Smargo received his RWA-Z1ES-1 yesterday, so I suspect he'll be posting in the next few days. Another customer had a stock Sony drop-shipped to me from Crutchfield and is deciding on what mod package to go with.
Having new units drop-shipped to me for modification is fine - but please have the tracking number and your name in the shipping label so I know it belongs to you. E.g. Red Wine Audio, John Doe, etc.
Review units will also be sent out in due time. Right now I have a stock unit and my Z1ES-2 modded unit going into the Isabella preamp so I can do easy A/B'ing. Having the burned-in stock unit here has been very helpful in allowing me to listen to where I was, and where I am going with the modification process. It's really hard to go back to the stock for more than a track or two... :wink:
Vinnie
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Apologies, Ivo & Vinnie. Forgot about that "stock" thread...lazy me, wanted all in just one thread :green:.
Regarding SSD, are there any issues in there (OS compatibility or hardware connectivity) that do not (or may not) allow for user friendly substitution? I upgraded to SSD rather easily one of my laptops (but I reckon that the HAP-Z1ES's inner computer environment may have unique characteristics). What type of SSD are you contemplating SLC (single-level cell) or MLC (multi-level cell)? I gather you could also try an external-USB-ready SSD for the back USB port and compare.
Cheers,
Mario
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Regarding SSD, are there any issues in there (OS compatibility or hardware connectivity) that do not (or may not) allow for user friendly substitution? I upgraded to SSD rather easily one of my laptops (but I reckon that the HAP-Z1ES's inner computer environment may have unique characteristics). What type of SSD are you contemplating SLC (single-level cell) or MLC (multi-level cell)? I gather you could also try an external-USB-ready SSD for the back USB port and compare.
Hi Mario,
Good question and this is something that I need to confirm. I read (I think on the Audiogon forum) that someone did the SSD conversion by cloning the SSD with the stock drive and it worked fine. I think I also read that someone installed the new drive and did a full 'reformat' using the Sony player's Settings menu and it worked fine. But I need to check into all of this for myself.
I have no interest in using an external USB drive. I want the drive's data to go directly to the microprocessor and the path is already very short inside the Sony for this (drive is a few inches from the processor board). And I want to keep external clutter to a minimum. And I think the connection would be faster using the direct SATA port on the microcontroller instead of going SATA > USB (external drive) and then USB > SATA again (inside the Sony), and no need for putting more load on the 5V bus. Just me being anal about this sort of thing. :roll: :lol:
Not sure if there is a 2.5" SLC offered in 1TB (or larger). I have to look into this..
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All,
The 1TB SSD should be here on Friday. Looking at the specifications, the read/write speeds should be faster. No noise at all from SSD. Sonically, I'm curious if there will be any improvement. Reliability should be excellent compared to the stock HDD. We'll see...
RWA-Z1ES-3 (continued)
I really want this modification package to take the performance to the max and besides the battery power feed to the critical sections, I also plan to use "super regulator"boards after the battery feed for the d/a converters' 5V and 3.3V power feeds, and a separate 3.3V regulator for the clocking. We're talking orders of magnitude improvement in lowering the noise floor, with no ripple at all from the pure battery feed. And for those who know my tube stage, you already know how silent it runs... especially from LiFePO4 battery feeding both the B+ and the filament regulators. 8)
I am sure Vinnie wouldn't mind me squashing this. I had 3tb's worth of DSD full on a external and the 1tb internal full without issue. Ok now back to hearing about Vinnies exciting stuff!
If anyone has questions about this they can PM me.
Hi harri009,
Thanks for letting us know that you proved that out. Wow - 4TB of storage! :thumb:
- Vinnie
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The 1TB SSD should be here on Friday. Looking at the specifications, the read/write speeds should be faster. No noise at all from SSD. Sonically, I'm curious if there will be any improvement. Reliability should be excellent compared to the stock HDD. We'll see...
Vinne, how much $ for the 1TB SSD?
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Vinne, how much $ for the 1TB SSD?
kngale1,
The one I am going to be testing is $595. Installing / test service (if this works out like I hope) will probably add $100. I'll get back to you
on this once I do do the installation and configuration to see what it is all about.
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie, a question that I think hasn't been discussed before: the pcm1795 output is balanced - is your tube stage with balanced input, please? If yes, how do you do the BAL/SE conversion - OpAmp-, discrete- or transformer-based? Is the BAL-SE stage powered separately from the I/V stage or can it be, please?
Thank you!
Ivo
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Vinnie -
I purchased and received my Sony HAP-Z1ES around 6 - 7 weeks ago, and after gaining the measure of this unit, I have become absolutely thrilled with its sound and function. I can only imagine what your modification packages will do for the sound quality (!!!).
The Sony unit is groundbreaking in several respects, not so much in others. However, I am wondering about the potential effects of any future Sony firmware/system software updates on a modified unit. I would imagine that the fundamental electrical properties of the Sony will not change at all with any such upgrade. But additional features, tweaks to power supply utilization and processing algorithms could conceivably be forthcoming. Operating system tweaks to improve the read/write speed could also be in their plans.
A company the size of Sony is (understandably or not) tight-lipped about any upcoming changes, and unless I am mistaken, probably do not issue many NDA's to outfits such as yours.
What can you say - in the absence of any (publicly) known firmware changes - that might be reassuring regarding post-modification, post-update function of this lovely unit?
Thank you!
Merko :D
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I purchased and received my Sony HAP-Z1ES around 6 - 7 weeks ago, and after gaining the measure of this unit, I have become absolutely thrilled with its sound and function. I can only imagine what your modification packages will do for the sound quality (!!!).
The Sony unit is groundbreaking in several respects, not so much in others. However, I am wondering about the potential effects of any future Sony firmware/system software updates on a modified unit. I would imagine that the fundamental electrical properties of the Sony will not change at all with any such upgrade. But additional features, tweaks to power supply utilization and processing algorithms could conceivably be forthcoming. Operating system tweaks to improve the read/write speed could also be in their plans.
Hi Merko,
Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum! Glad you hear you are enjoying your Z1ES's sound quality and functionality. :beer:
Good question - and the answer is that I do NOT believe that any firmware update(s) that Sony issues for this unit in the future will have
a conflict with the RWA-Z1ES-X mods. I cannot see how there could be a conflict with what I am doing. I'll go a step beyond that and say that if there was any type of conflict, I would take care of it under the 5-year warranty that I provide for the mods. I'm that confident that firmware changes will not be an issue. :wink:
Hi Vinnie, a question that I think hasn't been discussed before: the pcm1795 output is balanced - is your tube stage with balanced input, please? If yes, how do you do the BAL/SE conversion - OpAmp-, discrete- or transformer-based? Is the BAL-SE stage powered separately from the I/V stage or can it be, please?
Thank you!
Hi Ivo,
Yes - the tube stages do the BAL to SE conversion for each channel.
Yes - there is separate power for the d/a, I/V, and tube output. And when the RWA-Z1ES-3 package is released, they will all be ran from a battery power supply, but will each their their own super regulator boards (separate 5V and 3.3V for the d/a chips, separate 3.3V for the clocking, separate for the tube output stages). This should come to form in a few weeks, but in the meantime, the Z1ES-1 and Z1ES-2 modifications are rolling! 8)
All,
I want to announce that Ted Brady will be reviewing an RWA-Z1ES-3 unit for www.computeraudiophile.com (http://www.computeraudiophile.com) when it is available! Ted has evaluated numerous PCM and DSD dacs at all different price points, so I believe he is a great choice for reviewing the RWA-Z1ES-3 and hearing where it stacks up.
In the meantime, customer feedback is both welcomed and appreciated. We can start a new thread on the RWA forum to post listening impressions, and I can link to it from this thread. Just trying to keep it organized as possible because I know these pages add up and it gets hard to find info. Maybe I need to make a table of contents one day... :lol:
Vinnie
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hi guys see that some have the HAPZIES UNIT. I HAD PROBLEMS WITH THIS UNIT . 25000 CDS RIPPED PLUS 100 HIGH RES ALUMS. XTENDED UNIT WITH 2 TERA. COULDNT GET ANY MOBILE APP WORKING PROPERLY /STOP/STARTING /SLUGGISH ETC READ SOME WERE IT CAN ONLY COPE WITH 20000 TRACKS SAY 1000ALBUMS. CAND SOMEONE CONFIRM THAT THEY HAVE MORE THAN A 1000 CDS ON UNIT AND IT WORKS PERFECT.
I was not happy with this unit so I took it back for refund.// £2000 it costs in u.k.
would like to repurchase if because I want to get away from streaming and do like the dsd sound too. sony support UKwas poor . very poor any one help please allan Yorkshire uk
I remembered some where said that the magic number is 40,000 tracks. That is the Hap will support up to this number, irregardless of size, till now.
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I really don't want to take up too much space here on this posting here on the RWA Z1ES thread as Vinnie was kind enough to start this thread to discuss his plans to improve upon this player. So I'll try to keep this observation a shorter length (I said try, as I go off on tangents quite often)
While no product is ever as good or as bad as people say, I find it very interesting that those people who are
reporting having positive experiences w/ their Z1 are going into much greater detail explaining what steps & the sequence they followed to perform these steps while those having some problems generally have just said "I did (so &.so, etc) & then I had a problem with this" If they can't give a more detailed account of what they attempted to do & how they attempted this, there is no real way to judge if the player was at fault or the
user may have missed something during the setup.
The setup procedure for the Z1ES is not the suggested steps they "are" the steps the player wants to see. Someone may want to counter this with "I can & have setup all kinds of equipment, why is this any different"
That would be because other players with the same unique specific functionality don't exist.
Well, I tried to make it short
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I remembered some where said that the magic number is 40,000 tracks. That is the Hap will support up to this number, irregardless of size, till now.
Hi Peter,
Are you referring to the internal drive, or total (with external USB drive)? Yes, harri009 proved that adding 3TB external works fine. It could be that Sony added a firmware update for this... not sure. Does anyone know where Sony lists the updates and what they fix?
The setup procedure for the Z1ES is not the suggested steps they "are" the steps the player wants to see. Someone may want to counter this with "I can & have setup all kinds of equipment, why is this any different" That would be because other players with the same unique specific functionality don't exist.
Hi Steve,
I agree. If you follow the processes outlined by Sony, everything seems to be quite smooth. I have found the Z1ES to be VERY user friendly so far. I do believe Sony should have included a paper copy of the manual, but once you realize that it is on the included USB stick (or if you go to the Sony link that I added to the first post of this thread), it is all very simple. So is the remote App. Not rich in features compared to others, but all the essential stuff is there for me and the player and the App is very responsive and I like how its uncluttered approach!
UPDATE REGARDING SSD
Good news - I received my 1TB SSD today and just finished installing it... and it works! :green:
You install it, boot up and have it restore everything back to the factory settings, and in a couple of minutes later it reboots and the
SSD has all the sample music and acts just like the day you got it. So you need to reload your files, which I am doing now. I have my Macbook
directly connected to the Sony via an Ethernet Crossover cable and with the SSD, the files do appear to be transferring a lot faster than with the stock HDD.
And like Ivo's screen name, it is NOISELESS! Not that the stock unit is loud, but now it is super silent. I'm not sure if I'll be able to hear a sonic improvement, but I do notice that the file transfer is going faster (and I transferred the files the same way with the stock SSD).
I'll definitely be offering a SSD upgrade service for those who don't feel comfortable removing the stock drive from its bracket assemble and changing it themselves. The 1TB SSD upgrade will be $695. I can look into larger SSD's. Does anyone know of a 2TB (or larger) 2.5" SSD? And I mean a true SSD (not Hybrid SSD - there are plenty of Hybrids out there :roll:).
Ok - that's it for now. I need to rest up because I seemed to have come down with a flu-like bug and the computer screen is starting put me in daze. :sleep:
Vinnie
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And like Ivo's screen name, it is NOISELESS!
:bowdown: :green:
I need to rest up because I seemed to have come down with a flu-like bug and the computer screen is starting put me in daze. :sleep:
Vinnie
Wish you a fast recovery, Vinnie!
Ivo
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Hi Peter,
UPDATE REGARDING SSD[/u
I'll definitely be offering a SSD upgrade service for those who don't feel comfortable removing the stock drive from its bracket assemble and changing it themselves. The 1TB SSD upgrade will be $695. I can look into larger SSD's. Does anyone know of a 2TB (or larger) 2.5" SSD? And I mean a true SSD (not Hybrid SSD - there are plenty of Hybrids out there :roll:).
Vinnie
Hi Vinnie. I think 1TB is the limit for now in 2.5 . Samsung has launched a 1.6TB enterprise drive, might be OEM only for now. Not readily available. But we may see 2TB ssds in 2.5 before the end of the year.
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Hi Vinnie. I think 1TB is the limit for now in 2.5 . Samsung has launched a 1.6TB enterprise drive, might be OEM only for now. Not readily available. But we may see 2TB ssds in 2.5 before the end of the year.
I'm betting that when they finally do release the 2TB/2.5" SSD it will be priced at 2 & a half times the price that we're seeing for the 1TB/2.5" SSDs now (If it follows the normal trend ;although it may not as I don't see
the 1TB & above 2.5" SSDs being large sellers in the Laptop/PC sector.)
-
Vinnie-
Can the z1 be setup to run on 220v/50cycles? Or would we need to wait for the level 3 mod to allow that (assuming we buy a unit for modding in the US)?
-
I've been pondering the HAP-Z1ES to replace my SB Touch/EE DAC for a while now. The tube output makes it even more interesting.
What's kept me from replacing the Touch in the past has been the ease of use of its software interface. I've become accustomed to it and really enjoy the Random Songs by Genre option.
Does the Sony have a similar feature?
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I've become accustomed to it and really enjoy the Random Songs by Genre option.
Does the Sony have a similar feature?
http://docs.esupport.sony.com/homeav/Hi-Res_Audio/HAPZ1ES_guide/en/contents/TP0000221981.html
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I've been pondering the HAP-Z1ES to replace my SB Touch/EE DAC for a while now. The tube output makes it even more interesting.
What's kept me from replacing the Touch in the past has been the ease of use of its software interface. I've become accustomed to it and really enjoy the Random Songs by Genre option.
Does the Sony have a similar feature?
No - just Shuffle. It has something called "SenseMe", which according to Steven Stone's review in the absolute sound, "...analyzes and automatically categorizes music tracks according to their mood and tempo using the 12-tone analysis technology developed by Sony. SenseMe has twelve categories of music—morning, daytime, evening, midnight, energetic, relax, upbeat, mellow, lounge, emotional, dance, and extreme".
SONY HAP-Z1ES HDD AUDIO PLAYER (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sony-hap-z1es-hdd-audio-player/?page=3)
Game Changer
Equipment report
by Steven Stone | Feb 14th, 2014
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All,
Since mid last week I've been sick, sick, sick. :cry: It started out as a lot of the flu-like symptoms, and then worked its way into a respiratory infection / sinus infection. I've been laid out in bed for a few days and still fighting this off. Tomorrow I hope to get to a doctor and get some meds to kill this off. I should be back to work again on Tuesday, but in the meantime I'll try to catch up with emails and the forum when I can.
Hi Vinnie. I think 1TB is the limit for now in 2.5 . Samsung has launched a 1.6TB enterprise drive, might be OEM only for now. Not readily available. But we may see 2TB ssds in 2.5 before the end of the year.
Hi Christopher,
Thanks for the info. At least we know that the drive can be swapped, upgraded, replaced when the time comes, etc. The 1TB SSD drive has been nice in there, but I haven't done much listening since I installed it. :wink:
Hi Steve in NJ,
Let's hope they are not too expensive when the come out! In time, I'm sure they'll get much cheaper...
I'm sure we can also substitute a 3.5" or 1.8" drive in there if 2.5" has limited SSD options. It's a SATA interface and not some proprietary interface thank goodness.
Can the z1 be setup to run on 220v/50cycles? Or would we need to wait for the level 3 mod to allow that (assuming we buy a unit for modding in the US)?
Hi Firedog,
There is no way to internally configure the Z1ES to run on 220V. The transformers cannot be rewired either. They do make a 220V version, but if this is something that you'd want to buy in the USA to have modded, then you are better off going with the 120Vac version and using an external step-down transformer (rated for 60W or more). I'd go 100W.
Here is an example: http://www.amazon.com/Philmore-Heavy-Stepup-Stepdown-Transformer/dp/B000PCCABU
$20 + shipping, and I'm sure you can find them all over. Do a search for "ST-100" step down transformer. They also make an ST-200 (200W version) and beyond.
The RWA-Z1ES-3 will not be a full battery conversion. There will still be a few sections of the unit that will be powered from the mains.
Speaking of the RWA-Z1ES-3:
:idea: While lying in bed staring at the ceiling this afternoon, it dawned on me that the LiFePO4 battery power for the RWA-Z1ES-3 can be installed INSIDE the Z1ES! The transformer used for the analog power supply section will no longer be needed and can be removed, making room for the battery pack. The stock analog supply board could also be removed, as it will be replaced with discrete super regulator boards that I plan to hard wire to the Audio board to make the power feeds as short and clean as possible. In the stock configuration, the wiring is "ok" but can be cleaner, as the internal pics reveal.
I'm also thinking that the charger for the battery does not need to be very large, and it could reside inside the unit as well. I'll be aiming for >10 hours of play time in pure battery mode, but I am going to also include a switch on the rear panel to allow the user to select between pure battery mode and "AC" mode where the battery is charging and providing power at the same time (higher charge current to the battery than the load current that the battery is supplying, of course). So if your Z1ES will be on for a long time as you transfer GB's of music onto it, or if you like to leave your equipment on 24/7 because you swear it sounds better, you can do that. :) When you are doing critical listening, you can easily switch to pure battery mode and should be able to get > 10 hours of listening. And when you power down the unit, it will automatically charge the battery.
This way, the user doesn't have to think much about the battery at all. You just power it ON/OFF like you normally do and enjoy it. No external box, no separate power cable, no umbilical, no added connectors... NO ADDED COMPLEXITY.
So, there is still much work to be done than simply daydreaming in bed, but it's a start.
As always, thanks for all your interest!
Vinnie
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Hi Peter,
Are you referring to the internal drive, or total (with external USB drive)? Yes, harri009 proved that adding 3TB external works fine. It could be that Sony added a firmware update for this... not sure. Does anyone know where Sony lists the updates and what they fix?
I got the info from a Japanese web site before I'd my HAP therefore have difficulty to retrieve what I've read.
If you able to turn ON/OFF the DSD engine, you'd have the latest firmware update.
Btw, you've squeezed everything into one box for the MOD 3, GGOD, however, would there be anything interference within?
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I got the info from a Japanese web site before I'd my HAP therefore have difficulty to retrieve what I've read.
If you able to turn ON/OFF the DSD engine, you'd have the latest firmware update.
Btw, you've squeezed everything into one box for the MOD 3, GGOD, however, would there be anything interference within?
Hi Peter,
Ok - I can turn on/off DSD... and when I check for update, it says it is up to date.
As far as RWA-Z1ES-3, I *think* I can get it to be all inside the Z1ES enclosure. :wink:
I do not see an interference problems. The only type would be 60 cycle hum (or 50 cycle, if used on a 50Hz grid). I'm not getting hum with the RWA-Z1ES-1 / 2 mods now (which have an added, dedicated linear supply for the tube stages), so I can't see how there will be a problem when we convert to battery and super regulators on top of that. But this is something that I will carefully test for...
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie,
Just to clarify: is the tube buffer tapped directly to the 1795 output, i.e. implements both I/V and buffering function?
I re-read the thread, but it is still not 100% clear to me.
You mentioned before that you would consider the transformer option - any thoughts about it?
Also, do you know if the absolute phase can be changed on-the-fly?
Thanks,
Vlad
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Just to clarify: is the tube buffer tapped directly to the 1795 output, i.e. implements both I/V and buffering function?
I re-read the thread, but it is still not 100% clear to me.
You mentioned before that you would consider the transformer option - any thoughts about it?
Also, do you know if the absolute phase can be changed on-the-fly?
Hi Vlad,
I/V is being done via the OPA2132UA, and that is what feeds the tube output stages (1 per channel).
So for each channel, it goes: PCM1795 (d/a) >> OPA2132UA (I/V) >> Tube output (Convert to SE, Buffer).
I'm really loving what the OPA2132 feeding the tube stage is doing, and it smokes the pants off the passive I/V I tried (resistor, without transformer). Passive resistor I/V mod had weaker transients, less punch, and less "drive" - so I scrapped that effort early on.
I'm enjoying it so much that I haven't even looked into changing out this configuration. I am NOT against trying a transformer option or something else, but the results would need to be better sounding than what I have now for me to want to offer it (besides doing a one-off version for someone who was curious to try).
The PCM1795 d/a chips DO support a software control of the absolute phase (via the bit register), but not via a a hardware interface like a switch. So this is something that Sony would have to offer with a firmware update if we can all petition! I think it would be nice to have! :thumb:
Vinnie
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Vinnie,
What's the battery packs life expectancy in terms of years or hours? ~ How much $ to replace? If internal, probably have to ship back to you to replace?
Thanks!
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What's the battery packs life expectancy in terms of years or hours? ~ How much $ to replace? If internal, probably have to ship back to you to replace?
Hi kngale1,
Our custom-made LiFePO4 packs (just like we use in our RWA products) are rated for over 2,000 charge/discharge cycles. So you should be good for around 5 years, and even then, should should still be at around 70% of new battery life.
Just like in our products, the battery pack will be user-replaceable. No soldering required, either. The pack is $250, and includes the metal mounting bracket that securely holds it in all directions and has the holes for the chassis mounting screws. It's easy!
As far as how many hours of play time when fully charged, I'll report on that when the modification is completed and tested.
Vinnie
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I/V is being done via the OPA2132UA, and that is what feeds the tube output stages (1 per channel).
So for each channel, it goes: PCM1795 (d/a) >> OPA2132UA (I/V) >> Tube output (Convert to SE, Buffer).
Hi Vinnie, I hope you are feeling better now!
Well, we have an OpAmp in the I/V stage and how about the BAL-SE and the Buffer, please?
I know discrete BAL-SE convertion is not easy too unless you use output transformer in the tube stage?
Thank you!
Ivo
P.S. BTW, ModWright's price @ $3000 for the output mod only is insane, IMHO!
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Hi Vinnie, I hope you are feeling better now!
Well, we have an OpAmp in the I/V stage and how about the BAL-SE and the Buffer, please?
I know discrete BAL-SE convertion is not easy too unless you use output transformer in the tube stage?
Thank you!
Ivo
P.S. BTW, ModWright's price @ $3000 for the output mod only is insane, IMHO!
OPA2132 only in the I/V. The rest is tube. NO transformers, no chokes, no DC-DC converters. It's simple, it's clean, and it sounds
REALLLLLYYYY good! :P
I saw Dan/Modwright's post. The approach he is taking is a little different and I think it is a good thing because you guys have more choices. Dan's a good guy, does great work and has a solid reputation here on audiocircle and beyond. There will be no "West Coast vs. East Coast rivalry going on between us. We'll save that for the hip-hop scene instead! :green:
Vinnie
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Thanks for the clarification, Vinnie!
I didn't want to compare your mods to Dan's and of course it's better for us to have more options. I just think it's not right to charge for a device's output stage 150% more than the whole device itself!?!
But this is not a part of our conversation here - sorry!
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I didn't want to compare your mods to Dan's and of course it's better for us to have more options. I just think it's not right to charge for a device's output stage 150% more than the whole device itself!?!
But this is not a part of our conversation here - sorry!
Well, I can't agree with you on this. It really depends on what the mods cost in terms of parts, development time, risk in terms of working on the player, overhead, providing warranty service for the work, how the modded player compares to others in the same price range as the modded player (stock unit + mods), and a handful of other factors.
But I'm fine with agreeing to disagree, and we'll get back on track. :wink:
While I am at it, I kindly request from everyone who posts in this thread to not discuss the modifications of other companies, pricing, etc. I appreciate your understanding with this.
I also want to point out a new thread started by Steve in NJ for troubleshooting with the Sony (non modification related issues):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=124907.0
Vinnie
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While I am at it, I kindly request from everyone who posts in this thread to not discuss the modifications of other companies, pricing, etc. I appreciate your understanding with this.
Please, accept again my apologies for this!
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Please, accept again my apologies for this!
It is ok - and something that I take some responsibility for as well because I didn't mention it earlier...
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Vinnie,
Sorry if this is a little off-topic, bit I was wondering how the sound quality of a modded HAP-Z1ES compares with that of (Isa)Bellina LFP-V receiving USB input from a PC. Is the modded Sony significantly better for redbook playback?
I am trying to decide between upgrading an Isabellina (to Bellina PRO) and getting a modded HAP-Z1ES, with sound quality being the deciding factor ...
Thanks.
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Vinnie,
Sorry if this is a little off-topic, bit I was wondering how the sound quality of a modded HAP-Z1ES compares with that of (Isa)Bellina LFP-V receiving USB input from a PC. Is the modded Sony significantly better for redbook playback?
I am trying to decide between upgrading an Isabellina (to Bellina PRO) and getting a modded HAP-Z1ES, with sound quality being the deciding factor ...
Thanks.
Hi Balu,
I anticipate the RWA-Z1ES-3 mod to be significantly better than the Bellina PRO. The RWA-Z1ES-1 and -2 already have it beat in just about every regard. :o
Compared to the stock unit, I still favor the Bellina for Redbook, and the Bellina PRO for high res PCM. But Bellina / Bellina PRO does not do DSD. This is something that I am going to be looking into for Bellina (as well as other changes to get it more competitive with modded Z1ES sonic performance).
RWA-Z1ES-3 is going to be a BIG jump over the Z1ES-2... it's going to be outright phenomenal! :eyebrows:
I've been a little set back with my virus (which I'm still battling with! :duh:) this week, but I have been at least working on designing the battery power architecture for the Z1ES-3. I do believe that I should have it up and running (for listening tests, adjustments, etc) sometime next week.
Where am I going from here?
As mentioned above, the RWA-Z1ES-3 is what I am currently working on. After that is finished and available, I plan to look into:
- The XLR output options
- The volume controlled output options
- Built-in preamp functionality (Analog inputs, and volume controlled outputs).
- Other
Best regards,
Vinnie
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hey vinnie,
hope you shake the virus soon and are up and swaying to music soon.
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hey vinnie,
hope you shake the virus soon and are up and swaying to music soon.
Thanks, L.P.! I'll get there...
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All,
[The bad news... for me] - I'm still battling this virus, or whatever the heck it is (infection of some sort). Now my neck muscles are all locked up and it's been rough. I plan to call the doctor tomorrow and will hopefully try another antibiotic. At this point, I'll try whatever to get back to where I was over 10 days ago! :banghead: :duh: :bawl:
[The good news] - I've been looking into the RWA-Z1ES-3 from different angles, on paper and on the bench as much as I've been able to during this time of being sick. It looks like all this planning is paying off because I think I have a really clever way to approach it! The battery pack will be built into the modified unit, and I'll be using the linear power supply section (which the battery power will replace) as the charger. So the battery and charger will be built-in. No external enclosures for the battery or charger.
I am going to use a custom battery holder to hold the LiFePO4 cells in order to get them to fit on the right-side wall inside the unit. This will keep the battery power as close to the audio board and tube stage boards as possible (and on the opposite side of the AC transformers). The battery pack will feed the super regulators that will give independent linear regulated feeds to the d/a converters and the clock circuitry. So EXTREMELY clean power feed to the d/a converters and clock circuitry, and the battery pack will also feed the I/V and tube output stages. 8)
Battery power will turn on/off when the unit its turned on/off. There will also be a switch to allow the batteries to charge while the unit is ON (so you can play with no time limit). In this scenario, I do not expect much loss in quality because I plan to filter the linear regulated charging feed some more, and the batteries will act as large capacitance to make for a good filter of noise on the rails.
How will you know when the batteries need to be charged? There is an auto mute relay for the output already on the audio board. You probably can hear it click with the stock unit when you switch between tracks of different bit/sample rates (at it quickly mutes the output as it changes the clock frequency, so you don't get any odd static or pops on the output). I will have the output mute when it is time to charge (so you'll always be playing with the correct amount of juice). Then you can simply flip the switch to AC mode if you want to continue playing while it is charging.
Overall, I believe this is all going to work out and make for a really special sounding player. I see no reason why it won't be competitive with some of the best available. Tomorrow I plan to order all the parts that I need to make it happen. Once I get the parts, I'll need a few days to build, test, refine, and then I should have something to show and offer on the website!
As always, thanks for all your interest (and patience, especially in this last week I've been pretty ill)!
Vinnie
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Parts should be here on Thursday! :hyper:
In the meantime, we can discuss the add on options that can be added to either the RWA-Z1ES-1, 2, or 3 modification packages:
OPTIONS
Volume controlled output:
The remote controlled Alps boards (with mute relay) arrived today. These also have a Return to Zero (RTZ) feature that makes them go back to zero (MIN) volume when you turn ON the unit. This is because there would not be a display on the front panel to show the volume position, so you would always start out at MIN when you turn ON/ boot up.
I do have an interest in trying this out soon - feeding a pair of Liliana Monoblocks directly. :eyebrows:
For those who want a more exotic volume control for the best channel matching and sound:
- The other option (which can also be offered as an upgrade) is the more expensive Bent Hybrid Resistor board (60 position stepped attenuator volume control boards in a shunt configuration, so only one precision resistor in the signal path). The would also be remote controlled with MUTE feature like the Alps pot above, with return to MIN volume upon boot up.
I'm also thinking that with the Bent Hybrid Resistor option, their PRM-1 controller could be mounted to the front panel. I'm not too sure how it would look there, but it is doable and allows for one to see the volume setting and also control it from the front panel - for those who really want to know where the volume control is set to and be able to control it w/o a remote.
Do check out these Bent Audio offerings: http://bentaudio.com/index2.html
NOTE - I have tested programming the Z1ES with the Bent Audio remote code and everything seems to work fine via the Sony remote and/or iPad App.
Anlog input: This option can be added for someone who wants to feed their analog source into the RWA-Z1ES-1/2 for it to go through the remote volume control and tube output stage. Like the remote volume control option, this is for those who don't want to use a preamplifier in their system - but the analog input would allow for an analog source (e.g. Phonostage) to be added.
Upgrade to SSD:
This has already been tested and verified (see my earlier post on this thread about it), and I will be offering this service for those who do not feel comfortable doing the installation.
RWA-Z1ES-1-BAL and RWA-Z1ES-2-BAL
This is last (but not least) on my list to work on. The same mod packages as the single-ended version, only applied to the balanced (XLR) outputs instead of the single-ended (RCA) output jacks.
That's it for now. Feel free to ask questions (e.g. Q: Can a 12V trigger output be added to automatically turn on my Brand Z power amp that has a trigger input? A: Yes)
Vinnie
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RWA-Z1ES-3 UPDATE!
It's alive - it's spectacular! And it is almost finished: :thumb:
Let me first say that I really wanted to use an internal battery supply for this modification. This would keep the power path
from the LiFePO4 batteries to the Audio board and Tube stages as short as possible. I found battery holders to mount to the
right side panel (next to the Audio board). And now, it looks like it IS going to happen (all internal).
The LiFePO4 batteries are now powering the entire Audio board, including:
- The new 3.3V and 5V Super Regulators that feed the L and R d/a chips
- The new 3.3V Super Regulator for the clocking circuitry used for ALL file types
- The I/V conversion stage
- The tube output stages B+
- The output mute relay and circuitry for it
I still need to test play time between charges, but I expect ~ 7 hours continuous.
The stock analog transformer and power supply board will only used for the tube heaters, and battery charger. I still need to add an AC/BATT switch to allow for continuous play/charging, and I suspect the sound to be quite good in this mode since we are using the stock linear supply, but for the best results, run in pure battery mode for critical listening and you will be glad you did! Why?
Because with the lower output impedance (higher output current), isolation from the AC mains, and super-regulated feed to the d/a converters and clocks, I am excited to report on these sonic improvements:
- Dynamics have improved even more!
- Bass is tighter, faster, and appears to reach lower with more authority. There is serious grip and speed now, with total command
over each note. You will have a very hard time not tapping your feet and move about in your chair now! The timing is spot on.
- An ultra black background that allows you to hear even the most subtle details come out of empty space.
- Music is presented in a way that is free of any grain, glare, or other forms of 'digital sounding' artifacts.
- The sound it taller, wider, and deeper... it's very expansive.
- Overall, the music is conveyed with big doses of energy, tone, body, weight, transparency... you name it, it is ALL there and it's full of vibrancy!
Things left to do for the RWA-Z1ES-3:
- Test play time in pure battery mode
- Convert the now unused analog linear power supply board to a linear charger for the LiFePO4 battery packs and test
- Add AC/BATT switch and test
I should have this all wrapped up by the end of the week. I had to order some additional parts for the battery charging side of things.
Pricing:
Currently, we have:
- RWA-Z1ES-1 @ $1195
- RWA-Z1ES-2 @ $1995
I've done a few of them so far, and I am going to have to raise these a little more. It's taking me a lot more hours to mod these players than I anticipated.
As of May 1st, the pricing will be as follows:
- RWA-Z1ES-1 will be: $1495
- RWA-Z1ES-2 will be: $2250
- RWA-Z1ES-3 will be: $2995
+ shipping .
I will be modding units to RWA-Z1ES-3 by the end of this month (*probably* earlier - starting next week).
As for the OPTIONS...
I received a few requests for the remote volume control and added RCA input(s). While I do not have the pricing up yet, I am confident that I CAN add this for the Level 1, 2, or 3 modification packages above. So contact me about it and we can get it going on it. Otherwise, I probably won't get to it few a couple of more weeks.
That's it for now. Many thanks for all your continued interest and support! :notworthy:
Vinnie
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sorry for the stupid question but what is the difference between the RWA-Z1ES- 1 2 and 3.
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sorry for the stupid question but what is the difference between the RWA-Z1ES- 1 2 and 3.
kbuzz3,
For info on the RWA-Z1ES-1 and 2, see:
http://redwineaudio.com/mods/rwa-z1es-x
Fro info on the RWA-Z1ES-3, see my most recent handful of posts on this thread, especially the one I posted today. It has everything from the level 1 and 2, but also converts the sections listed in my last post to LiFePO4 battery power (internal battery), adds built-in charging, AC/BATT mode operation, and super regulators for the d/a converters and clocking. I think that covers everything. :)
Vinnie
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All,
RWA-Z1ES-3 - It just keeps getting better! :D
I am now using the unused 5V output from the analog power supply board (the 5V linear regulated output for the d/a chips
that we no longer need since we are using battery and super-regulators for that) to feed the MAIN 5V rail (instead of the using the digital supply board's 5V that comes from a DC/DC converter chip).
This Main 5V rail feeds the system microprocessor, the FPGA, the Audio DSP chip, and more.
I tested it out last night and WOW! It just took the midrange another step up! The clarity is even better... I mean, it is SPOT ON! :singing:
Vocals sound so natural, so rich, so "they are in the room singing to you!" All from CLEANER POWER. Power supply is so important, and this confirms it for me yet again that clean power wins.
Here is the cool part ... I am adding this to the RWA-Z1ES-3 modification list (at no extra cost). It MUST be done because it we can't let a clean 5V linear regulated feed go to waste, and it just adds some labor to rewire some feeds and grounds.... and it gives a clear sonic reward!
And even cooler - I should be able to do it (with another unused output from a linear feed) for the Hard Drive and USB port circuit as well, so the dc-dc convert board will be unused, and everything goes LINEAR AND BATTERY. Why not? 8)
NOTE: This cannot be done for the Level 1 and Level 2 mods because we need the analog +5V linear regulator feed for the d/a chips (they are not replaced by battery until we get to Level 3).
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In other news, there was a new firmware update released by Sony yesterday. The notification came up on the screen, I pressed enter to install it, and it was flawless.
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And for the front cover of the new Stereophile:
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/041414-3705-600.jpg?1397653523)
Looking forward to getting my issue in the mail!
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie, I am glad you are feeling better now and even managed to achieve better results with the Sony!
I had very high hopes for your mods but unfortunately they appeared to be beyond my financial capabilities, at the moment.
Anyway, I think I will be able to live with the stock unit until some DIY mods appear on the Net, eventually.
Good luck with your business!
Ivo
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I just got the level 2 up and running a little over 24 hours ago. I have never heard the stock unit because I sent it from the vender straight to Vinnie. So I have no idea how much of an improvement the level two is over the stock unit. With that said, the Sony HAP Z1ES with the level 2 mod. sounds fantastic. I will go into more detail after I get at least of 100 hours or so of burn in. If the Level 3 is a big improvement over the level 2, then it must be something really special.
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Hi Vinnie, I am glad you are feeling better now and even managed to achieve better results with the Sony!...
Good luck with your business!
Ivo
Hi Ivo,
Thank you!
I just got the level 2 up and running a little over 24 hours ago. I have never heard the stock unit because I sent it from the vender straight to Vinnie. So I have no idea how much of an improvement the level two is over the stock unit. With that said, the Sony HAP Z1ES with the level 2 mod. sounds fantastic. I will go into more detail after I get at least of 100 hours or so of burn in. If the Level 3 is a big improvement over the level 2, then it must be something really special.
Hi Afterimage,
Thanks for posting and we look forward to your impressions.... enjoy it!
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I should be receiving parts today to wrap up on the charging circuitry for the RWA-Z1ES-3. Will post more soon...
Vinnie
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just got this link from positive feedback online
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue72/sony_hapz1es.htm
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Quick question Smargo, how loud is that fan inside? I don't believe anyone has asked about it or mentioned it--Kal Rubinson indicates its existence (no comments added) in his current Stereophile review.
Mario
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just got this link from positive feedback online
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue72/sony_hapz1es.htm
Hi Smargo,
Thanks for the link!
Quick question Smargo, how loud is that fan inside? I don't believe anyone has asked about it or mentioned it--Kal Rubinson indicates its existence (no comments added) in his current Stereophile review.
Mario
Hi Mario,
It doesn't seem to ever turn on at all. I think it is in there just for protection in case of an over-heating situation, but both in stock and modified form (yes, even with the tubes on 24/7), it does not get warm enough to trip the sensor to turn the fan on.
So the fan is not an issue. This machine is super silent!
Vinnie
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Quick question Smargo, how loud is that fan inside? I don't believe anyone has asked about it or mentioned it--Kal Rubinson indicates its existence (no comments added) in his current Stereophile review.
Mario
It is so quiet and i havent noticed it at all - i dont think it has even come on - of course my unit sits in wide open space (nothing around it)
but i did have tubes put in so the top plate especailly where the tubes got put in gets warm - but nothing i can hear or concerned about
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It is so quiet and i havent noticed it at all - i dont think it has even come on - of course my unit sits in wide open space (nothing around it)
but i did have tubes put in so the top plate especailly where the tubes got put in gets warm - but nothing i can hear or concerned about
.
Great, Smargo, thanks. Fan activity/intensity and related noise level are something to consider particularly, as in your case, if tubes have been added. I wonder if the battery mod would be adding more heat inside the enclosure and if the combination of this quiet fan and existing vents would be enough for overall heat dissipation--to prevent accelerated wear and tear to other original electronic components inside (keeping in mind that the 5 year warranty is forfeited by any mod). Perhaps Vinnie could elaborate a bit on this.
Mario
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Hi Mario,
See my post above. Fan does not turn on. Does not get warm enough in there for it to turn on.
I think it the Sony was sitting on top of a furnace or in some rack-mount application with HOT gear below it (in a hot room),
it could turn on. But with all the mods (including tube heat), running 24/7, it does not turn on
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Hi Mario,
See my post above. Fan does not turn on. Does not get warm enough in there for it to turn on.
I think it the Sony was sitting on top of a furnace or in some rack-mount application with HOT gear below it (in a hot room),
it could turn on. But with all the mods (including tube heat), running 24/7, it does not turn on
So sorry, Vinnie, I missed your previous post...this is great news, evidently all your mods in full long-term operation do not add enough heat to trigger that fan (although in practice a moot point, hopefully it is a quiet fan if it is ever triggered).
Are you fully recovered?
All the best,
Mario
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Here is the cool part ... I am adding this to the RWA-Z1ES-3 modification list (at no extra cost). It MUST be done because it we can't let a clean 5V linear regulated feed go to waste, and it just adds some labor to rewire some feeds and grounds.... and it gives a clear sonic reward!
And even cooler - I should be able to do it (with another unused output from a linear feed) for the Hard Drive and USB port circuit as well, so the dc-dc convert board will be unused, and everything goes LINEAR AND BATTERY. Why not? 8)
All set! The entire player is Linear and LiFePO4 battery... including the HDD (or SSD if you switch over like I did) and USB port... everything!
The internal LiFePO4 batteries are now powering the entire Audio board, including:
- The new 3.3V and 5V Super Regulators that feed the L and R d/a converter chips
- The new 3.3V Super Regulator for the clocking circuitry used for ALL file types
- The I/V conversion stage
- The tube output stages B+
- The output mute relay and circuitry for it
The rest is all powered via the analog power supply (now all linear regulated, not using any dc/dc converters), with new low-noise linear voltage regulators installed for -15V, +15V, and two for +5V. This powers:
- System microprocessor
- The FPGA and Audio DSP chip
- Ethernet and USB ports
- SDRAM
- HDD
- Display
- Battery charging
OTHER
- I added a relay to switch OFF the battery charging when the unit is ON (unless you override this with the AC/BATT switch that has been added to the rear panel).
- When the unit is OFF (shut down), the batteries charge as long as you leave the unit plugged into your AC wall outlet. If you unplug from the AC outlet, blocking diodes prevent the batteries from discharging to anywhere else in the circuit.
- There is no more sharing with the digital power supply board's (the one with the dc/dc converters) GND. It is all on a new star-ground and
all linear / LiFePO4.
- Balanced output circuitry (opamps, resistors, XLR jacks) have been removed. I will be exploring a balanced version of this mod... probably sometime next month.
Finally, I need to confirm the play time in BATT mode, and post this information (and pics) to the website.
The sound is extraordinary.... I mean really, really superb at this point! I will have to add a wrap-up on it soon. This has been a "labor of love" project for me, and has consumed WAAAAYYYY more hours of time than I anticipated, but the reward is enjoying the seductive music that it reproduces. Speaking of which, I am exhausted and plan to spend the rest of the evening just listening with a smile. :D
RWA-Z1ES-3 will be added to the RWA website next week. I have a few more customers' Z1ES coming in, so please check in with me regarding lead-time. The Stereophile revew was very complimentary, and a few customers mentioned to me that the Z1ES is becoming out of stock in online stores. I hope Sony is making a new batch to sell - especially with the new review!
Ted_B: I still *hope* to have your review RWA-Z1ES-3 ready at the end of this month. It is gets delayed, it will not be by too much. :oops:
Next up.... remote volume control option, analog input option (these will be finished and tested by the end of this month), followed by a balanced output version (I will begin working on it sometime next month).
Enjoy your weekend, everyone!
Vinnie
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Vinnie,
I am very excited by all this, and am ready when you are! :)
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The sound is extraordinary.... I mean really, really superb at this point!
If Vinnie says this, it must be REALLY good.
Ted-
As you own several high end DACs and good servers, it will be really enlightening to hear how you think the Level 3 mod compares to a high end PC/DAC combo. Sounds like the modded Sony should be a worthy competitor, especially for the price.
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If Vinnie says this, it must be REALLY good.
Ted-
As you own several high end DACs and good servers, it will be really enlightening to hear how you think the Level 3 mod compares to a high end PC/DAC combo. Sounds like the modded Sony should be a worthy competitor, especially for the price.
Can't wait for your review ted. I'm thinking about changing out my Exasound Mk111 with this modified unit. The Sony unit should be a little more wifey friendly (ease of use)
Vinnie, which unit will ted receive ?
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Here is John Darko of Digital Audio Review mentioning Vinni and the Red Wine Audio's mods.
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/03/red-wine-audio-tube-up-sony-hap-z1es-hra-player/
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If Vinnie says this, it must be REALLY good.
Ted-
As you own several high end DACs and good servers, it will be really enlightening to hear how you think the Level 3 mod compares to a high end PC/DAC combo. Sounds like the modded Sony should be a worthy competitor, especially for the price.
I know this is going to sound like "tooting my own horn" but I don't care... the Z1ES-3 is really is Freakin' Brilliant sounding!!! It's still blowing my mind every night I listen. :angel:
So I'll be excited to hear how Ted gets along with it after I send him a unit and he's had some time to listen to it.
I'm wrapping up the Level 3 mod... just testing another battery pack and testing run-time.
Hi mav52,
I'll be sending Ted the RWA-Z1ES-3 8)
Hi OzarkTom,
Thanks for posting that link.
There is also more talk about the Z1ES on Audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1&ctg&3&&
and AudioAsylum:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/etv.mpl?forum=hirez
Vinnie
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Vinnie,
In the level 3 mod, are the analog XLR outputs disabled and only stock RCA analog output active? Or XLR pseudo wired from the single ended output?
Can you offer details on the XLR mod option design and pricing?
Thanks!
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Vinnie,
In the level 3 mod, are the analog XLR outputs disabled and only stock RCA analog output active? Or XLR pseudo wired from the single ended output?
Can you offer details on the XLR mod option design and pricing?
Thanks!
Hi kngale1,
The RWA-Z1ES-3 mod complete disables the XLR output stage. The opamps for the XLR outputs are removed from the board, as are the resistors/caps that grab the signal from the I/V stage, so there is no sharing of the signal, and no sharing of power for SE and XLR outputs.
If you want to keep the XLR outputs, I can keep them in. While they will sound better than stock (due to all the modifications), they will not have the tube output stage. So we'll just call them "partially modded XLR outputs." Either way, there is no extra cost for this. So if you don't specify that you want to preserve the XLR outputs, they will be removed. I will mention this on the website when I post the Level 3 mods.
I did hear an improvement with the outputs after removing the I/V feed to the XLR outputs, and removing the opamps for the XLR outputs. Not a substantial change, but there was a noticeable increase in transparency and top-end extension/decay. Initially, I thought I was just imagining it, so I connected the BAL output stage back in, an then back out and I preferred it disabled.
RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL
Next month, I'll be working on RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL mods (where X can be level 1, 2, or 3), and I will 'probably' disable the SE outputs for this mod for the same reason as above (again, unless you want me to keep them in).
The cost for RWA-Z1ES-X mods and RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL mods will be the same.
I do not plan offer both versions in one box (as it would require 4 tubes, more heat, more sharing... not my style). If you absolutely require tube modded SE and BAL outputs, check out Dan @ ModWright's Z1ES mods. I believe his includes both.
Vinnie
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RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL
Next month, I'll be working on RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL mods (where X can be level 1, 2, or 3), and I will 'probably' disable the SE outputs for this mod for the same reason as above (again, unless you want me to keep them in).
The cost for RWA-Z1ES-X mods and RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL mods will be the same.
I do not plan offer both versions in one box (as it would require 4 tubes, more heat, more sharing... not my style). If you absolutely require tube modded SE and BAL outputs, check out Dan @ ModWright's Z1ES mods. I believe his includes both.
Vinnie
Vinnie, thanks for the clarification. I've always thought XLR mod was an addition to the SE mod.
I've already had several ModWright mods over the years and contemplating trying something different. Dan makes an excellent product so my guess it's probably more different than much much superior.
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Next month, I'll be working on RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL mods (where X can be level 1, 2, or 3), and I will 'probably' disable the SE outputs for this mod for the same reason as above (again, unless you want me to keep them in).
If I'm not wrong, unlike ModWright has years of experiences in implementing fully differentiated circuit, your current products are mainly SE, so, it's difficult to optimize one (not just build one)?
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If I'm not wrong, unlike ModWright has years of experiences in implementing fully differentiated circuit, your current products are mainly SE, so, it's difficult to optimize one (not just build one)?
Hi peterlim8,
BAL output is not hard to do and does not require years of experience in making products with BAL outputs. I prefer SE, especially if interconnects are going to be kept short (under 6 feet is my 'unofficial rule'). In a pro audio environment with > 100 foot runs of cable, I can see BAL being a good thing with regards to noise rejection. But there is added complexity in the signal at the transmitting and receiving ends, which I personally don't prefer. It isn't major, but I do not believe that BAL is better because it is BAL. If interconnects are going to be quite long, then BAL usually will be better at noise rejection. I do not wish to debate SE vs. BAL for home audio in this thread, so if you want to discuss it, you can call or email me. :wink:
As far as for the Sony player, I actually might be able offer BOTH SE and BAL (with tube output) as well, but I don't want to say for sure until I have the time to try it out, test, etc. But I have some ideas...
Also, I received a call from someone who wanted to know if the modded BAL output voltage can be increased from 2Vrms to 4Vrms (so it is double that of the SE output, which is fairly common). I'm pretty sure it can be done if needed (e.g. if you need the extra voltage for your preamp's BAL input). We'll see...
Actually, the next thing I'll be working on (besides getting info onto the RWA website) is the remote volume controlled SE output option (and optional analog input). This would be for those who do not want to use a preamp and want to connect their RWA-Z1ES-X to their power amps. :eyebrows:
Vinnie
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I have question/concern. I leave mine on pretty much 24/7. I does get pretty hot back where the tubes are at. Is this okay or normal?
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I have question/concern. I leave mine on pretty much 24/7. I does get pretty hot back where the tubes are at. Is this okay or normal?
Totally normal. You are looking about about 2W of heat per tube, so around 4W of heat in the back by the tubes. So it is noticeable, but
I wouldn't call it "hot." You should be able to put your hand on the top cover above the tubes and leave it there without it feeling uncomfortable.
Vinnie
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Hi peterlim8,
BAL output is not hard to do and does not require years of experience in making products with BAL outputs. I prefer SE, especially if interconnects are going to be kept short (under 6 feet is my 'unofficial rule'). In a pro audio environment with > 100 foot runs of cable, I can see BAL being a good thing with regards to noise rejection. But there is added complexity in the signal at the transmitting and receiving ends, which I personally don't prefer. It isn't major, but I do not believe that BAL is better because it is BAL. If interconnects are going to be quite long, then BAL usually will be better at noise rejection. I do not wish to debate SE vs. BAL for home audio in this thread, so if you want to discuss it, you can call or email me. :wink:
Hi Vinnie, Tks for the reply!
For those who already using BAL from top to bottom, they don't have to hunt for RCA cable for new addition.
Btw, from the review of Stereophile, the Z1ES has inverted the absolute polarity in the digital domain, hence both outputs of BAL and SE are inverted. does your MOD stick to it or revert it back to normal after the digital domain?
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Btw, from the review of Stereophile, the Z1ES has inverted the absolute polarity in the digital domain, hence both outputs of BAL and SE are inverted. does your MOD stick to it or revert it back to normal after the digital domain?
I actually switch it back, so the absolute polarity is non-inverted at the outputs...
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Actually, it does not matter what phase the info is being sent into the DAC with....because the DACs have differential outputs. So, all you need to do is select whatever output you want and amplify it to get whatever phase you want. Seems Sony did not pay attention to phase and simply made a mistake with how they wired the output stage (unless they did in intentionally?). I have tested the Sony with the original Philips test disc and indeed the phase is reversed. Sony should update their software so we can switch the phases digitally....this would give the unit correct phase for most music and the music that is recorded in reverse phase could be made to sound better by switching it to inverted phase. Of course, us modders will give people non-inverted output like it should have been stock!
It does make a difference. Most recorded music will sound best decoded non-inverted. If you have a stock unit and you can switch phase in your preamp, then give it a try and see what you hear. If you have a tube preamp that inverts phase, then you can now switch your speaker wires back to their normal phase and all will be fine.
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Sony should update their software so we can switch the phases digitally....this would give the unit correct phase for most music and the music that is recorded in reverse phase could be made to sound better by switching it to inverted phase. Of course, us modders will give people non-inverted output like it should have been stock!
Hi Ric,
I agree and it would be great if Sony offers a SW update that does this via the Menu (where DSD remastering and DSEE on/off functions are). I'm not sure how to contact their SW team who works on this, but maybe I can find an online support request for it. If others do the same, it might push them to update the SW with this feature. I'm sure it would be very easy for them to implement...
Vinnie
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All,
As promised, RWA-Z1ES-3 has been added to our website:
http://redwineaudio.com/mods/rwa-z1es-x
More pictures coming this week!
Vinnie
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Please let me know if there are other items on your wish list (perhaps a headphone output stage, analog input that passes through the tube output stage and volume, etc.). I'm not saying I can do anything, but if you plant seeds in the RWA garden it might just grow!
Thanks for all your posts and continued interest - Keep 'em coming! :hyper:
Vinnie
I'd vote for a Headphone Output Stage as an option. The volume control also sounds interesting.
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Vinnie can you discuss the difference between the original Sony Bal XLR outputs and the new bal XLR outputs your going to provide, just curious
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I'd vote for a Headphone Output Stage as an option. The volume control also sounds interesting.
Hi bmoura,
The headphone output stage would require the built-in volume control, and this is all doable. I wish there was a simple way
to install the headphone jack on the front panel, but it would require machining and I do not have the capability in-house. I can easily
add it to the rear panel, but I'm not sure if this would be an issue or not.
Vinnie can you discuss the difference between the original Sony Bal XLR outputs and the new bal XLR outputs your going to provide, just curious
Hi mav52,
The RWA-Z1ES-1-BAL, -2-BAL, and -3-BAL modification packages would be the same as listed on our website, but would apply to the XLR output jacks.
- Vinnie
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Hi bmoura,
The headphone output stage would require the built-in volume control, and this is all doable. I wish there was a simple way
to install the headphone jack on the front panel, but it would require machining and I do not have the capability in-house. I can easily
add it to the rear panel, but I'm not sure if this would be an issue or not.
Putting the headphone output stage and the volume control on the back panel sounds fine to me.
More practical than machining I would think - and preserves the look of the front of the unit.
(The secret upgrades stay safely out of view...)
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Hi bmoura,
I can definitely do it! 8)
Excellent! How much does it add to the cost of the 3 upgrade levels for the HAP-Z1ES ?
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All,
Tomorrow is the last day of the preliminary pricing for the RWA-Z1ES-1 and -2 modifications.
After this, they are $1495 (for Level 1) and $2250 (for Level 2). Level 3 pricing remains the same at
$2995.
In other news, it looks like most places are out of stock of the Sony player, and should hopefully be getting more in mid-May. If you order
the modification service now, you will still get the preliminary pricing and you can send in your Sony player directly to me to save
shipping.
I am also going to try to get some in stock (mid May). An overseas customer was asking me about ordering a modded one directly, and modded for 240Vac operation. I looked into it and I'm pretty confident that I can install a step-down transformer inside the unit, but only for the Level 3 modification (as I will not need to install the linear power supply for the tube stage since it is battery powered with the Level 3 mod), so I should be able to offer this and it would not require an external converter. You would just plug your 240Vac directly into the IEC jack on the back panel.
This conversion will probably cost around $195. Feel free to email me to discuss... :argue: :green:
Also, I'm becoming quite busy with modifications, along with the day-to-day RWA product builds. Current lead-time is approx. 3 weeks from when we receive your unit.
Thank you,
Vinnie
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Excellent! How much does it add to the cost of the 3 upgrade levels for the HAP-Z1ES ?
The remote volume control option (using Alps Blue Velvet, configured to run from the Sony remote handset and Sony iPad/Android App) will add $495.
The SE headphone output stage (used in the Cassabria / Bellina HPA) will add $495.
These can be added to any of the RWA-Z1ES-X upgrades with single-ended output option. I'll be exploring the balanced output stage in a week or two, and would also need to see if we can implement a volume control option for the balanced option.
Vinnie
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All,
Just an update - I've been really busy getting RWA product built/shipped this week, and next week I'm going to be finishing up a few RWA-Z1ES
units that are in progress.
I haven't had time to explore the BAL output stage mods yet. I'll post more when I get there...
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie,
Eventually, I'd like to do away with vinyl, my old shellac 78 RPM records, and CDs. I own an old Olive Opus 4 music server, but it doesn't have high-enough resolution to give up on the original formats. This Sony seems like a good alternative for my whole collection: Rock, Classical, Jazz, Electronic, Greek, Italian, etc. I'm recording all my stuff into DSD from Tascam's new DA-3000.
With that said, I'll need lots of storage, perhaps 4 TB. Is only one additional SSD (or HDD) allowed to be added to the existing hard-drive or can I install multiple hard drives? If only one could be added as currently allowed by Sony through their back panel USB (although not a preferred connection), to allow expansion in the future, could it be fixed to have capability of three or four drives?
It's acknowledged that the RCA connectors are to be replaced by RWA with Vampire Wire jacks. That's fine. Will the IEC power panel receptacle jack also be replaced? My concern is with the two-prong receptacle as provided by Sony. Nowadays, audiophiles discard the manufacturer's stock cords for exotic audiophile quality cables and most of those have three prongs, the third to a dedicated (isolated) ground. This Sony and most mass-fi units are two-prong and there is no mention on your website if this would be changed. I'm wondering if this unit gets a dedicated ground, if this would introduce noise? It's not so much for grounding that I ask; I'd like to try better cables.
Please clarify some more about the third mod choice RWA-Z1ES-3. If, say, one were to completely remove the batteries, could this music server still work by AC alone?
Thanks.
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A heads up for potential buyers, the Sony HAP-Z1ES is now back In Stock from Sony via their High Resolution Audio web site as promised this week.
See http://store.sony.com/hi-res-music-player-with-1tb-hdd-zid27-HAPZ1ES/cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio?_t=pfm%3Dcategory
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A heads up for potential buyers, the Sony HAP-Z1ES is now back In Stock from Sony via their High Resolution Audio web site as promised this week.
See http://store.sony.com/hi-res-music-player-with-1tb-hdd-zid27-HAPZ1ES/cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio?_t=pfm%3Dcategory
It shows a status of Backordered just under the Add to Cart button. :(
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It shows a status of Backordered just under the Add to Cart button. :(
That was fast! It was shown as In Stock just yesterday.
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Hi TheBloop,
Welcome to AC and the RWA forum!
Is only one additional SSD (or HDD) allowed to be added to the existing hard-drive or can I install multiple hard drives?
I'm not sure. It might be possible to use a USB hub and connect multiple external hard drives.
Will the IEC power panel receptacle jack also be replaced? My concern is with the two-prong receptacle as provided by Sony. Nowadays, audiophiles discard the manufacturer's stock cords for exotic audiophile quality cables and most of those have three prongs, the third to a dedicated (isolated) ground.
With the stock 2-prong IEC jack, you can use different, more exotic 3-prong IEC power cables. They will still fit in the stock jack and the stock jack works fine. :wink:
Please clarify some more about the third mod choice RWA-Z1ES-3. If, say, one were to completely remove the batteries, could this music server still work by AC alone?
Actually, yes. There is a switch on the back panel to allow for AC/BATT mode. If you are in AC mode, it plays/charges at the same time. But if the batteries were removed from the unit, you can still play in AC mode. The stock, linear supply (that I now use to charge the cells) will still provide power to the output stage. But you are wasting money with the RWA-Z1ES-3 modification package if you don't use the LiFePO4 battery supply for critical listening because it is SWEET!!! 8)
A heads up for potential buyers, the Sony HAP-Z1ES is now back In Stock from Sony via their High Resolution Audio web site as promised this week.
See http://store.sony.com/hi-res-music-player-with-1tb-hdd-zid27-HAPZ1ES/cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio?_t=pfm%3Dcategory
Hi bmoura,
All sold out and I'm still waiting for a few units to have in stock. They are very hot right now... for good reason! :flame:
Vinnie
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Hi TheBloop,
Welcome to AC and the RWA forum!
I'm not sure. It might be possible to use a USB hub and connect multiple external hard drives.
With the stock 2-prong IEC jack, you can use different, more exotic 3-prong IEC power cables. They will still fit in the stock jack and the stock jack works fine. :wink:
Actually, yes. There is a switch on the back panel to allow for AC/BATT mode. If you are in AC mode, it plays/charges at the same time. But if the batteries were removed from the unit, you can still play in AC mode. The stock, linear supply (that I now use to charge the cells) will still provide power to the output stage. But you are wasting money with the RWA-Z1ES-3 modification package if you don't use the LiFePO4 battery supply for critical listening because it is SWEET!!! 8)
Hi bmoura,
All sold out and I'm still waiting for a few units to have in stock. They are very hot right now... for good reason! :flame:
Vinnie
It's probably me, and I readily admit to being VERY new to the computer- based playback, but I don't have a clear understanding of how it works with the external hard drive-
let say I have the internal 1 TB drive full of music files, and still have more music to play. So i get this extra music, that wouldn't "fit" on to internal hard drive, copied on the external drive.
Then, when I play files from the external drive, do they go to the internal drive in any kind of way, or internal drive is simply not being used, when I palyed files from the external one?
And if that's the case, whould the quality of the external drive need to match the quality of the internal 1 TB drive?
Thanks in advance
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It's probably me, and I readily admit to being VERY new to the computer- based playback, but I don't have a clear understanding of how it works with the external hard drive-
let say I have the internal 1 TB drive full of music files, and still have more music to play. So i get this extra music, that wouldn't "fit" on to internal hard drive, copied on the external drive.
Then, when I play files from the external drive, do they go to the internal drive in any kind of way, or internal drive is simply not being used, when I palyed files from the external one?
And if that's the case, whould the quality of the external drive need to match the quality of the internal 1 TB drive?
Thanks in advance
Ok - so you have the extra music ripped on your computer or thumb drive - then transfer that music to the new external drive (format first) that you put on the back of the physical sony player (there is a usb slot for this) and your good to go - a lot of external hard drives are good to use - prob the external hard drive will be better then the internal drive that sony uses
the music stays on the external drive and doesnt go to the internal drive
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Hi bmoura,
All sold out and I'm still waiting for a few units to have in stock. They are very hot right now... for good reason! :flame:
Vinnie
Well, the Sony High Resolution Audio site shows the HAP-Z1ES back In Stock today. No idea how long that will last.... :)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99469)
http://store.sony.com/hi-res-music-player-with-1tb-hdd-zid27-HAPZ1ES/cat-27-catid-All-Res-Audio?_t=pfm%3Dcategory
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As of this very minute they only have 20 left.
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As of this very minute they only have 20 left.
Amazing. Time for Sony to make more! :)
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Amazing. Time for Sony to make more! :)
Strange it says they have them in stock, when many of the online reseller are waiting to get more in stock to fulfill their backorders (including a few that I ordered!!!). :o :o :o Maybe Sony is finally getting the next batch of builds shipped out.
I'm approx. 3 weeks backlogged on mods for these. I should be shipping a couple of RWA-Z1ES-3's by Friday of this week, and will tackle a few more next week. Modding them has been a more time-consuming process that I thought, but they are coming out very, very nice. :thumb:
For examples of options, I installed a 1TB SSD for a customer with RWA-Z1ES-2 modification (shipped last week) and I have a few who want remote volume control and/or input select switch.
I know - I know.... some of you want balanced and I have NOT forgotten. Just been tied up with this first round of mods, but I actually might be able to start working on the balanced output mods next week. Imagine that! Sorry for the delay. :oops: :roll:
Vinnie
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Strange it says they have them in stock, when many of the online reseller are waiting to get more in stock to fulfill their backorders (including a few that I ordered!!!). :o :o :o Maybe Sony is finally getting the next batch of builds shipped out.
Sony still shows them in stock. And now one of the Amazon.Com sellers - Video & Audio Center in Southern California (where I bought mine) - shows 3 in stock as well. So they are re-appearing, slowly.....
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"For examples of options, I installed a 1TB SSD for a customer with RWA-Z1ES-2 modification (shipped last week) and I have a few who want remote volume control and/or input select switch."
Hi Vinnie, what SSD are you using?
Received my HAP-Z1ES one week today. No issues. Loaded my music from a iMac/WD external via wired ethernet. Everything sounds very coherent and smooth while much more detailed and dynamic. On the cd ripped files, the recording qualities of the various albums really stand out. Very pleased so far.
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"For examples of options, I installed a 1TB SSD for a customer with RWA-Z1ES-2 modification (shipped last week) and I have a few who want remote volume control and/or input select switch."
Hi Vinnie, what SSD are you using?
Received my HAP-Z1ES one week today. No issues. Loaded my music from a iMac/WD external via wired ethernet. Everything sounds very coherent and smooth while much more detailed and dynamic. On the cd ripped files, the recording qualities of the various albums really stand out. Very pleased so far.
Hi Tubegem,
Welcome to the RWA forum!
For the SSD, I'm pretty sure this is the one:
Samsung 840 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal Solid State Drive - MZ-7TE1T0BW
Works great!
Everything sounds very coherent and smooth while much more detailed and dynamic.
Are you referring to the stock unit? What are you comparing it to?
Enjoy it!
Vinnie
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Hi Tubegem,
Welcome to the RWA forum!
For the SSD, I'm pretty sure this is the one:
Samsung 840 EVO-Series 1TB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal Solid State Drive - MZ-7TE1T0BW
Works great!
Are you referring to the stock unit? What are you comparing it to?
Enjoy it!
Vinnie
[/quote
Thanks Vinnie. I have a stock unit +DH Labs Revelation IC + Blue Circle power cord (BC62) .
Previously, Mac-mini>Amarra HF (also tried Pure Music and Audivarna+) >BIS USB >Music Fidelity 192 link > BC507 DAC. I find the 44.1/16 rips sound better coming from the Z1 (DSD=on, DSEE=off). Just more of everything, such as string tone as well as electric bass grunt, better defined thwack on drums, brassier trumpets etc. I'm not dissecting the music, I'm just much more aware of everything and therefore regular cds are much more enjoyable. Hi rez PCM is comparable with the BC507. I don't own any DSD music as yet, but am waiting for my 85 or so SACD to be ripped.
The thing I find really interesting is how much more dynamic some of the cds are. The better recorded ones, really shine. I had to double check a couple of times to make sure they were 44.1 vs hi rez. What this unit does to cd and internet radio, I think justifies its price. That it can also do hi rez CPM and DSD is a bonus to me.
I'm very please after one week. That your upgrades will bring the Z1 to another level is hard to imagine. After multiple issues with the mini and it's chain, this is a wonderful and stress free way to listen to one's music. For the non-computer person like me, it's the right solution.
I really appreciate your detailed explanations of what you are hearing and how the voyage is progressing, and eagerly await Ted B's review. Thank you.
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Looks like the drought is ending. The HAP-Z1ES is now back In Stock at both Acoustic Sounds and Music Direct. Along with 3 from a partner store at Amazon.
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/94813/Sony-HAP-Z1ES_1TB_Hi-Res_HDD_Player-Hi_Res_Audio_Player
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-161287-sony-hap-z1es-music-player.aspx
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I would love to know how this DAC - stock and modded - compares to the PSA DirectStream and Auralic Vega. Has anybody done such a comparison?
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Hello Vinnie (it's been waaaay too long) and HAP(py) AC'ers!
I just received a HAP this week. It was slightly used, so it may be close to broken in now. I cannot say how it compares to the two DACs in question, but it certainly compares favorably stock with the other DACs in the under $2.5k range that I have had in house. That is NOT to say it is "better", but again, I am really enjoying it! :thumb: Simple, great sound, and apparently, a fantastic modding platform!
I look forward to getting my head wrapped around this bad boy and following this and other similar threads.
Cheers,
Gary
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I have the Level 3 back from Vinnie. I will comment on my impressions later, but first I need help troubleshooting something. For the life of me I can't get the Sony connected to my wireless network, which means I can't use the app for this device to pick out artist/songs/albums from listening chair. This is very frustrating, when I spend a lot of money I want something to be user friendly and to work. Heck, I one of the reasons I went this route was to avoid all the trouble shooting and hassle that computer audio have. Any, here is what I am trying on the front screen.
Wireless Set
Select Access Point
enter my password
hit enter to connect to network.
results-wireless connection Failed. Internet Access Failed.
The other option was to try the WPS access point.
my router does not have a WPS button, it should just connect with the device automatically but when I hit enter to search for the wireless network, the result is the same, cannot find access point.
All the other devices in house work fine. Anyone have any clues as what I should do next?
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Perhaps try setting up a new access point and then connect to your existing?
If this doesn't work, just send the unit to me and I will try to fix it. :wink:
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I'm very please after one week. That your upgrades will bring the Z1 to another level is hard to imagine. After multiple issues with the mini and it's chain, this is a wonderful and stress free way to listen to one's music. For the non-computer person like me, it's the right solution.
Hi Tubegem,
Glad you are enjoying it - and YES - it can be brought up A FEW levels in performance! :wink:
Hi bmoura,
I nabbed the last one from Music Direct for a customer in Europe who ordered a Z1ES-3. I'm still patiently waiting for another player that I ordered from B&H. This was going to be the review sample. :(
Hi EarFlappin,
I'd love to know this as well! :green:
Hi gbeard,
It has been a long time - good to see you here on the RWA forum, and glad you joined our HAP(py) club! 8)
Hi AfterImage,
Did you make sure you set the upper/lowercase correctly? Are there any special characters in your password. I shouldn't have mess with your settings - but I connected to my wifi so I was able to use my iPad to control it when doing listening tests. I'm not sure what is going on.
You can get an ethernet cable and connect directly to your router, and when you chose the set up the wired connection, hopefully it will see
your network.
Here is a link to the online manual section about WIFI setup:
http://helpguide.sony.net/ha/hapz1es/v1/en/cover/level1_06.html
And here is the one for wired (LAN) setup:
http://helpguide.sony.net/ha/hapz1es/v1/en/cover/level1_05.html
I hope this helps!
Vinnie
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Hi Tubegem,
Glad you are enjoying it - and YES - it can be brought up A FEW levels in performance! :wink:
Hi bmoura,
I nabbed the last one from Music Direct for a customer in Europe who ordered a Z1ES-3. I'm still patiently waiting for another player that I ordered from B&H. This was going to be the review sample. :(
Hi EarFlappin,
I'd love to know this as well! :green:
Hi gbeard,
It has been a long time - good to see you here on the RWA forum, and glad you joined our HAP(py) club! 8)
Hi AfterImage,
Did you make sure you set the upper/lowercase correctly? Are there any special characters in your password. I shouldn't have mess with your settings - but I connected to my wifi so I was able to use my iPad to control it when doing listening tests. I'm not sure what is going on.
You can get an ethernet cable and connect directly to your router, and when you chose the set up the wired connection, hopefully it will see
your network.
Here is a link to the online manual section about WIFI setup:
http://helpguide.sony.net/ha/hapz1es/v1/en/cover/level1_06.html
And here is the one for wired (LAN) setup:
http://helpguide.sony.net/ha/hapz1es/v1/en/cover/level1_05.html
I hope this helps!
Vinnie
thanks Vinnie. I checked my password characters and they are right. I have been to those help sites for the Sony already but no luck. I will try again tomorrow. I am just selecting stuff manually for now. As for the sound, it is fantastic!!! Warm, spacious, organic. And the bass is the best I have heard from a source.
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I'm down in Newport Beach this weekend for The Show and the HAP-Z1ES fame continues to spread. It's available for listening at the Acoustic Sounds music stand and is being used by Sony with their very high end speaker demo. New people are discovering the unit and there will be new buyers after these demos. (I met a musician at The Show yesterday that heard the HAP and called it and DSD in general eye-openers in terms of music quality).
Talked with the Sony Electronics U.S. folks. They say the HAP has far exceeded their sales projections and they are selling every unit that comes to the U.S.! Quite a ringing endorsement of High Resolution Audio.
Sony Electronics U.S. is continuing to ask for more HAP-Z1's to sell. So there will continue to be a supply, even though it's a hot seller.
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thanks Vinnie. I checked my password characters and they are right. I have been to those help sites for the Sony already but no luck. I will try again tomorrow. I am just selecting stuff manually for now. As for the sound, it is fantastic!!! Warm, spacious, organic. And the bass is the best I have heard from a source.
A friend of mine spent weeks with the same problem, tried everything he could. His son came home from flight school and in 20 minutes had it working. Neither one knew exactly what was wrong. :scratch:
I had the same problem for a couple of days, so I turned everything off, unplugged everything, rehooked, and then it worked.
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A friend of mine spent weeks with the same problem, tried everything he could. His son came home from flight school and in 20 minutes had it working. Neither one knew exactly what was wrong. :scratch:
I had the same problem for a couple of days, so I turned everything off, unplugged everything, rehooked, and then it worked.
Hi OzarkTom,
Very strange - I never ran into this problem yet on my unit or any of the ones I modded already. Maybe it has to do with how it talks to a particular make/model of router? :dunno:
Hi Afterimage,
You might also want to reset your wifi router and see if that also helps. But
good to know you aren't the only one...
As for the sound, it is fantastic!!! Warm, spacious, organic. And the bass is the best I have heard from a source.
Glad you are enjoying it - even with low hours on the mods! Please keep us posted, and we'd all love to hear how it compares to what you
have been using before it. Spill the beans! :green: :wink:
Hi bmoura,
Sorry I couldn't make Newport Beach this year. Next up for me is Capital Audio Fest, then NY Audio Show, and then RMAF...
I'm sure people at the show are finding out that it is a great product for the money. I'm sure they are selling way more than they thought they
would. The reviews in the big magazines have been hot, the forum chatter has been hot, and the mod potential on them to get a player with such capabilities that can go head-to-head with pricer competition makes for a "product of the year" candidate in my book! 8)
I hope some of my other customers who should have received their modded units last week are enjoying them and will post their impressions. If you are not signed up to post, please do so and share your RWA-Z1ES experiences, and thank you. :notworthy:
Happy listening, everyone!
Vinnie
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I have had the Sony HAP-Z1ES for a couple of days. It replaced a very high performance Mac Mini with external PSU. I wanted a change and I am happy with the Sony. The RWA mods look like a "when" as opposed to an "if" at this point and I am considering which of the RWA mods to have done (decision between 1&2 for budget control).
I see that many folks are doing/discussing to a SSD. I decided on another route. A 2TB internal drive swap. The Player uses a Toshiba MQ01ABD100 drive that has SATA2 with 8MB cache. I have an OWC Elite Pro Mini 2.5" 2TB external drive that has been very reliable so I opened it to see if what the raw drive was. It is a Toshiba MQ01ABB200. Aside from the physical size (slightly thicker) it is the same design as the OEM Sony drive. I purchased a similar drive from Western Digital 2TB WD Green SATA III Intellipower 8 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Hard Drive WD20NPVX as it specs out better than the Toshiba (SATA3 vs SATA2). The 15mm height (drive thickness) will fit in the Sony without modification based on visual inspection.
That was the FYI section :scratch:
The Curiosity section: I like SSDs and had one for my OS X Mac Mini music server but used an external spinning drive for the file storage. Are users swapping the Sony/Toshiba for an SSD for sound quality? I know latency is a big issue for digital media but with the DSD upsample and DSEE processing latency shouldn't be a sensitivity due to the buffering. I wanted to get away from external drives, external PSU's and the like. So the larger on-board storage made sense for me. I am always interested in others' rationales. Any comments would be great. Sincerely, Mike
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I have had the Sony HAP-Z1ES for a couple of days. It replaced a very high performance Mac Mini with external PSU. I wanted a change and I am happy with the Sony. The RWA mods look like a "when" as opposed to an "if" at this point and I am considering which of the RWA mods to have done (decision between 1&2 for budget control).
I see that many folks are doing/discussing to a SSD. I decided on another route. A 2TB internal drive swap. The Player uses a Toshiba MQ01ABD100 drive that has SATA2 with 8MB cache. I have an OWC Elite Pro Mini 2.5" 2TB external drive that has been very reliable so I opened it to see what the raw drive was. It is a Toshiba MQ01ABB200. Aside from the physical size (slightly thicker) it is the same design as the OEM Sony drive. I purchased a similar drive from Western Digital 2TB WD Green SATA III Intellipower 8 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Hard Drive WD20NPVX as it specs out better than the Toshiba (SATA3 vs SATA2). The 15mm height (drive thickness) will fit in the Sony without modification based on visual inspection.
That was the FYI section :scratch:
The Curiosity section: I like SSDs and had one for my OS X Mac Mini music server but used an external spinning drive for the file storage. Are users swapping the Sony/Toshiba for an SSD for sound quality? I know latency is a big issue for digital media but with the DSD upsample and DSEE processing latency shouldn't be a sensitivity due to the buffering. I wanted to get away from external drives, external PSU's and the like. So the larger on-board storage made sense for me. I am always interested in others' rationales. Any comments would be great. Sincerely, Mike
Whoops - trying to correct some grammar
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One more thing on the Sony HAP-Z1ES from The Show. Talked with Sony Electronics and they say a firmware upgrade is coming that will fix the inverted phase issue. Nice to hear they are responding to this one.
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One more thing on the Sony HAP-Z1ES from The Show. Talked with Sony Electronics and they say a firmware upgrade is coming that will fix the inverted phase issue. Nice to hear they are responding to this one.
I wonder if it is possible for a firmware upgrade to control the volume from your iPad?
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A friend of mine spent weeks with the same problem, tried everything he could. His son came home from flight school and in 20 minutes had it working. Neither one knew exactly what was wrong. :scratch:
I had the same problem for a couple of days, so I turned everything off, unplugged everything, rehooked, and then it worked.
strange, because that is exactly what happened for me. I tried everything. Today I went through exactly the same steps and it worked, it connected.
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One more thing on the Sony HAP-Z1ES from The Show. Talked with Sony Electronics and they say a firmware upgrade is coming that will fix the inverted phase issue. Nice to hear they are responding to this one.
Interesting! Just wonder how does the coming new firmware upgrade affects those who already had their phase corrected?
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Interesting! Just wonder how does the coming new firmware upgrade affects those who already had their phase corrected?
Years ago when I was using a Toshiba HDDVD player , Toshiba would send their firmware upgrades to your email as a link (or physically as a CDr) & give you the option of installing the upgrade or not !
Does Sony send the firmware upgrades as notifications that the upgrade is "ready" to be installed or is it just automatically installed upon sending ? Toshiba would outline what issues or new feature sets were included
for the particular firmware you were receiving. I also believe there was a way to revert back to the former firmware version if the current upgrade changed somethings that were negative changes for your machine.
Toshiba's customer support was exceptional, it's a shame their format was not able to co-exist with Bluray
given their willingness for this level of continued support !
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Interesting! Just wonder how does the coming new firmware upgrade affects those who already had their phase corrected?
Hopefully they are going put an option in the menu to toggle this ON/OFF.
strange, because that is exactly what happened for me. I tried everything. Today I went through exactly the same steps and it worked, it connected.
Glad it is working, Afterimage!
Does Sony send the firmware upgrades as notifications that the upgrade is "ready" to be installed or is it just automatically installed upon sending ?
A message comes up on the screen of the Z1ES and asks if you want to have it auto-installed. And the same for the App. Then you choose YES and it installs and reboots.
Vinnie
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One more thing on the Sony HAP-Z1ES from The Show. Talked with Sony Electronics and they say a firmware upgrade is coming that will fix the inverted phase issue. Nice to hear they are responding to this one.
Hi bmoura,
Thanks for letting us know about this. Did they mention if it would be a menu setting? Did you happen to get the name/contact info for the person you were talking to about this?
Thanks,
Vinnie
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Hi bmoura,
Thanks for letting us know about this. Did they mention if it would be a menu setting? Did you happen to get the name/contact info for the person you were talking to about this?
Thanks,
Vinnie
It was Aaron Levine at Sony Electronics. He said it was a firmware upgrade only - not a new menu setting.
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It was Aaron Levine at Sony Electronics. He said it was a firmware upgrade only - not a new menu setting.
Hi bmoura,
Ok - thanks for the info!
Vinnie
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It was Aaron Levine at Sony Electronics. He said it was a firmware upgrade only - not a new menu setting.
bmoura, question here is whether they are doing it this way because nobody though of it or told them to do it differently and, so, they proceeded to do it the easiest way...and actually, it may well be that adding a menu toggle switch is a simple matter of adding some basic code to the firmware. Besides his name did you happen to get a business card with contact phone numbers? DSpeaker adds new menu settings and switches to their DualCore AntiMode through firmware upgrades all the time
Mario
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Aaron Levine
Greater San Diego Area | Consumer Electronics
Current: Product Marketing Manager, Home Audio at Sony Electronics
Past: Marketing Project Manager, Home Audio at Sony, Public Relations Manager at Sony Electronics Inc., PR Specialist at Pioneer Electronics
Education: University of Arizona
Just google and if one have linken account will be able to get more info, I presume. :)
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peterlim8, this is a great beginning, see how far we can get this "trail" and find some contact info...searching for Sony headquarters (away from the main one in NY) I found one in San Diego, likely the place of work of Mr. Levine. There is a general number that we can call and inquire for Mr. Levine...if he does not work exactly there, there is a great chance they will know were to contact him...will see. I am outside Boston and can try contacting him during my mid afternoon (EST) tomorrow. Objective will be to determine how feasible would be for them to include a menu based toggle switch for polarity within a firmware revision, if too late for the announced one, then, how about in the following one. Argument in favor (and to touch their corporate pride as a motivator), as we all know, any current source product with true audiophile/high-end pretentions should have a polarity switch, not because that source's circuit itself may invert polarity but because other components in the chain (or the recorded media) may be doing it. So, adding such switch to the HAP would be a greatly welcome convenience.
Mario
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bmoura, question here is whether they are doing it this way because nobody though of it or told them to do it differently and, so, they proceeded to do it the easiest way...and actually, it may well be that adding a menu toggle switch is a simple matter of adding some basic code to the firmware. Besides his name did you happen to get a business card with contact phone numbers? DSpeaker adds new menu settings and switches to their DualCore AntiMode through firmware upgrades all the time
Mario
Hi Mario,
I submitted a request on the sony website for the phase toggle in the Menu (and App). Never heard back, so it is probably a matter of getting the idea to the engineering team and hopefully they will consider doing it.
Otherwise - no big deal. Just switch the + and - at each speaker if you think the phase needs to be swapped. Even if you think it is already correct, it doesn't hurt to swap it at both speakers and see if you can even hear an improvement or not. It's hard to tell if the absolute phase was preserved in the recording process. That is why a toggle in the App (via remote) would be nice.
SPEAKING OF REMOTE:
I amp shipping a RWA-Z1ES-2 to a customer tomorrow who ordered it with the Alps Remote Volume control It's installed and works flawlessly via the Sony Remote handset, and the App! 8)
It sure sounds great feeding the monoblocks directly - but I don't have time to do A/B comparisons with and without the preamp in the chain.
I'm still thinking about doing a custom Z1ES mod with the Isabella preamp installed! An RWA-Z1ES-BELLA! :green:
BTW - (and I usually don't like to post "dirty laundry" here), but I am going to cancel my order with B&H Photo because for over a month I have been patiently waiting for a Z1ES, and they have totally dropped the ball and can't even tell me when I am supposed to get it! :nono:
I have bought a couple of Z1ES players for customers from Music Direct, and there has not been a problem (when they have them in stock), and if they don't have them in stock, they give me an accurate estimate when more are on the way. Sorry B&H, but you really dropped the ball with this and that was supposed to be the review unit! :o I hope others have not had this problem. Just be careful...
Finally (for now), for those of you overseas who want to purchase the RWA-Z1ES player (level 1, 2, or 3), I have successfully installed an internal 220/240Vac to 110/120Vac step-down transformer for a customer in Europe. I charge $195 for this option. Otherwise, you can
probably find an external one online for around $50 or so...
WHAT'S NEXT???
Next week I have scheduled time to look into the BALANCED OUTPUT option of the RWA-Z1ES-X mods. I'll be reporting about that soon.
What else are we looking for in terms of features? Headphone output? Power amp? :xmas:
Vinnie
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peterlim8, this is a great beginning, see how far we can get this "trail" and find some contact info...searching for Sony headquarters (away from the main one in NY) I found one in San Diego, likely the place of work of Mr. Levine. There is a general number that we can call and inquire for Mr. Levine...if he does not work exactly there, there is a great chance they will know were to contact him...will see. I am outside Boston and can try contacting him during my mid afternoon (EST) tomorrow...
Sorry, complicated day, missed today's time window, too late now to call the West Coast. Will follow up early next week.
Mario
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WHAT'S NEXT???
Next week I have scheduled time to look into the BALANCED OUTPUT option of the RWA-Z1ES-X mods. I'll be reporting about that soon.
What else are we looking for in terms of features? Headphone output? Power amp? :xmas:
Vinnie
A vote for Headphone output and jack here....
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A vote for Headphone output and jack here....
Might as well if I can going to install the remote volume control, and already have the battery packs in there! :wink:
Vinnie
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UPDATES 8)
Now available!
RWA-Z1ES-1-BAL
RWA-Z1ES-2-BAL
RWA-Z1ES-3-BAL
This is the balanced output version of the RWA-Z1ES-X modifications.
Everything is identical to the (SE) single-ended (RCA outputs) version, but this time the XLR outputs contain the modified line output.
The stock RCA jacks can be disabled, or left in place (but they do not go through the tube stage). I can disable them (recommended) if you
do not plan to ever use them.
BAL output voltage is approx. 2Vrms, just like the RCA output voltage.
Pricing is the same, so when you order online, please follow up with a note specifying if you want the -BAL version of the modification.
Next up:
RWA-Z1ES-2.5
This is a new modification package that I am offering for those who want to get as close as possible to the RWA-Z1ES-3 performance, but without
using battery power. It is the RWA-Z1ES-2 modification, but the following (taken from Level 3) are added:
- New 3.3V and 5V “Super Regulator” boards installed on the audio board - feeding the L and R d/a converter chips
- New 3.3V “Super Regulator” board installed on the audio board – feeding the clock circuitry (used for ALL music file types)
- The sections of the stock unit fed with the digital power supply board (DC-DC voltage regulated) are now powered via the heavily-modified analog power supply (not the stock digital supply) that uses new, low-noise inear voltage regulators. These now power:
1) System microprocessor
2) The FPGA and Audio DSP chips
3) Ethernet and USB ports
4) SDRAM
5) HDD (or SSD, if you wish to have one installed)
6) The front panel display
COST: $2595
Based on my listening tests, I'd say with the RWA-Z1ES-2.5 you get 85% of the RWA-Z1ES-3 sound (The Level 3 gives you a little bit blacker background, a little bit more authority in the bass, and a little more natural sounding midrange), and you save $400. :wink:
The RWA-Z1ES-2.5 is for those of you who don't ever want to 'mess' with battery power (in terms of the play time limitations of pure BATT operation, and the fact that at some point, the cells will need to to replaced) - but who want to get as close as possible to the RWA-Z1ES-3 performance.
And of course RWA-Z1ES-2.5-BAL is now available as well.
To everyone who contacted me about the BAL output option, I want to thank you for all your patience. I am confident that you will find
that the RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL modification were well-worth your wait.
Vinnie
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All,
Been really busy these past few weeks with many different things, including Z1ES mods:
- We've shipped out a few RWA-Z1ES-X-BAL (balanced output version) units.
- I've made a few custom ones upon special request - with analog inputs (that pass to a remote volume control and tube output stage)
and remote volume controlled outputs.
- I'm finishing up a RWA-Z1ES-2.5 that I'll be bringing to Capital Audio Fest! [I just sold a Level 3 unit that I was going to bring to the show,
and I don't have the parts and time to get another Level 3 finished in time, but the Level 2.5 unit is a go!]
It will be feeding a Signature 57 Integrated with dual mono tube input stage, which I currently have loaded up with NOS Telefunken E88CCs and it is sounding fantastic! 8)
I can't believe we are reaching the end of July! It has been a busy summer (one of my busiest with sales, and work on all new designs :hyper:).
I hope to see many of you a Capital Audio Fest this coming week - It's a great show, so if you can make it, come visit us in Room 715. I'll be teaming up with Fidelis AV and they should have the newest Harbeth Super HL5 Plus model - which I'm excited to listen to for a few days!
Have fun!
Vinnie
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- I'm finishing up a RWA-Z1ES-2.5 that I'll be bringing to Capital Audio Fest! [I just sold a Level 3 unit that I was going to bring to the show,
and I don't have the parts and time to get another Level 3 finished in time, but the Level 2.5 unit is a go!]
It will be feeding a Signature 57 Integrated with dual mono tube input stage, which I currently have loaded up with NOS Telefunken E88CCs and it is sounding fantastic! 8)
Any plans for showing the upgrades at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in October ?
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Vinnie,
Do you happen to know if the recent firmware upgrade fixes the issue with the reversed phase?
Also any plans for the California show in San Fran? I would love to hear one of your modded units.
Thanks.
Tom
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Vinnie,
Do you happen to know if the recent firmware upgrade fixes the issue with the reversed phase?
Also any plans for the California show in San Fran? I would love to hear one of your modded units.
Thanks.
Tom
Hi Tom,
I haven't looked into the new firmware, so I cannot confirm at this time if it now "inverts the inverted" polarity. :)
I will not be attending the show in SF this year, but I hope to next year. I plan on trying to attend a handful of shows next year
in general because of what I've been working on.
Hi bmoura,
The next show that I'll have the RWA-Z1ES will be the New York Audio Show in September. As for RMAF, I will be there as well - but
I cannot confirm at this time what I will be showing. Things will be more clear in about 6 - 8 weeks, so please check back in with me then.
Thanks,
Vinnie
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Hi Tom,
I haven't looked into the new firmware, so I cannot confirm at this time if it now "inverts the inverted" polarity. :)
I will not be attending the show in SF this year, but I hope to next year. I plan on trying to attend a handful of shows next year
in general because of what I've been working on.
Hi bmoura,
The next show that I'll have the RWA-Z1ES will be the New York Audio Show in September. As for RMAF, I will be there as well - but
I cannot confirm at this time what I will be showing. Things will be more clear in about 6 - 8 weeks, so please check back in with me then.
Thanks,
Vinnie
Excellent. I'll watch for an update on what will be at RMAF. Hope to see and hear one of your HAP upgrades there.
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From Capital Audio Fest:
http://www.AudioAsylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=general&m=679176
I eventually wandered down to the floor below. Someone opened a room door and music flooded out. Following the music, I discovered Harbeth Super HL 5 speakers being driven by a Red Wine integrated amp and a Sony HAP Z1 music file player that had been modified by Red Wine with a tube output stage. This room created a very convincing musical illusion and I must especially credit the modified Sony player as I know the stock player does not sound as good as what I was hearing...
Cheers!
Vinnie
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does anyone know if going with SSD would improve the sound some more?
Firmware v 0013814r software just became available. Don't know what's changed. Not on Sony site yet.
Vinnie, it was nice seeing you at NY show.
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Got this from the sony.co.uk site; seems like a minor update:
Name: Firmware update v13814R for HAP-S1 / HAP-Z1ES
Date released: 28-10-2014
Benefits and improvements:
Improves the internet security when accessing network services
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does anyone know if going with SSD would improve the sound some more?
Firmware v 0013814r software just became available. Don't know what's changed. Not on Sony site yet.
Vinnie, it was nice seeing you at NY show and running into you at RMAF. You going to TAVES this week?
Same here, Dj_AmTraX!
I am not sure if using a SSD has any sonic improvement. It certainly has higher reliability, and seems to be a little more
responsive.
Hi Merko,
Thank you!
Vinnie
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Vinnie, bmoura or others:
Does anyone know if Sony, in fact, fixed the inverted polarity issue? I don't see it specifically listed. I am running both the HAP and a phono stage I would love to have them both in phase at the same time!
(Not trying to crap on a RWA/VR thread, but I thought one of you might know.)
Thanks and hope all is well with the new projects Vinnie!
Gary
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Vinnie, bmoura or others:
Does anyone know if Sony, in fact, fixed the inverted polarity issue? I don't see it specifically listed. I am running both the HAP and a phono stage I would love to have them both in phase at the same time!
Hi Gary,
I never tested their latest SW update to see if they "re-inverted" the polarity of both channels. There is a Sony UK site
that has the SW downloads and a description of the changes in each version, so it should say if that is what they did.
Thanks and hope all is well with the new projects Vinnie!
Thank you! I'm cranking away and have a lot planning for this year! Next show is AXPONA in Chicago.
Vinnie
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Thanks. I read the firmware and no directly specified fix. :(
I'll see you in Chicago! We can visit a bit, yes?
(Appalachian Spring in DSD on the HAP right now! I haven't forgotten--bringing yours to AXPONA, I hope?)
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Thanks. I read the firmware and no directly specified fix. :(
I'll see you in Chicago! We can visit a bit, yes?
(Appalachian Spring in DSD on the HAP right now! I haven't forgotten--bringing yours to AXPONA, I hope?)
Yes - looking forward to it!
I'll have the RWA-Z1ES-3 Sony there, along with a fully-loaded LIO. After many listening sessions and comparisons, I believe I was able to get the LIO DSD/PCM dac in the LIO sound to match, and perhaps even surpass, that of the RWA-Z1ES-3 (of course with the LIO Tubestage in there as well :wink:). You can be the judge of that! :singing:
See you there!
Vinnie
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Vinnie,
I can't decide between getting the 2.5 or 3 mod.
When the level 3 mod is run straight from the wall without batteries does it sound the same as the level 2.5 mod?
The issue for me is because I am in Australia , getting replacement battery pack might be a bit of a pain. At the same time I do like the fact that I can get a bit of SQ boost when need when running full battery mode.
Any chance you can share the minimum spec of the battery pack requirements so I can see if I can get something or get someone to built something similar?
Cheers
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Hi eso6686,
Welcome to AC and the RWA forum!
Any chance you can share the minimum spec of the battery pack requirements so I can see if I can get something or get someone to built something similar?
You could go with external battery packs - but you need to be careful. You need TWO 4-cell packs ... one LiFePO4 pack at 12.8V, and one pack at -12.8V. I would go with at least 1,000mAh capacity. You also want to make sure you have circuitry to balance each of the 4 cells in each battery pack, along with the other very important stuff like over-voltage protection, under-voltage protection, over-current protection, etc.
The charging voltages (from the modded Z1ES) for the packs are +15V, and -15V. Linear regulated with resistor current limiting. All built in.
I actually have made an external battery supply for a customer before (2 of the Red Wine Audio 10,000mAh packs, the same we used in the Black Lightning supply, so the play time on battery was well over 24 hours!). A 3-pin jack on the rear panel of the Sony connected the Sony to the external battery supply via a small cable. No need to switch the battery pack ON or OFF, or to connect an external charger. The modded Sony has that all built in and it was all automatic.
Feel free to email me if you wanted a Level 3 mod with external battery power solution. We can work it out, but please note that I wouldn't be able to get to doing this for at least a month. But I am very confident that you will find the results well worth the wait. 8)
Vinnie
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Hi eso6686,
Welcome to AC and the RWA forum!
You could go with external battery packs - but you need to be careful. You need TWO 4-cell packs ... one LiFePO4 pack at 12.8V, and one pack at -12.8V. I would go with at least 1,000mAh capacity. You also want to make sure you have circuitry to balance each of the 4 cells in each battery pack, along with the other very important stuff like over-voltage protection, under-voltage protection, over-current protection, etc.
The charging voltages (from the modded Z1ES) for the packs are +15V, and -15V. Linear regulated with resistor current limiting. All built in.
I actually have made an external battery supply for a customer before (2 of the Red Wine Audio 10,000mAh packs, the same we used in the Black Lightning supply, so the play time on battery was well over 24 hours!). A 3-pin jack on the rear panel of the Sony connected the Sony to the external battery supply via a small cable. No need to switch the battery pack ON or OFF, or to connect an external charger. The modded Sony has that all built in and it was all automatic.
Feel free to email me if you wanted a Level 3 mod with external battery power solution. We can work it out, but please note that I wouldn't be able to get to doing this for at least a month. But I am very confident that you will find the results well worth the wait. 8)
Vinnie
Thanks you very much Vinnie for the prompt reply.
How would you compare sq wise between the Level 3 mod running straight from the wall without batteries vs the Level 2.5 Mod? The reason for me asking is because if the Level 3 mod running straight from the wall is basically equivalent to that of the 2.5 mod then I might as well go for level 3 mode and have it run from the wall for casual listening and switch over to run off the battery if I am in for a bit of delight or showing it off to a friend ..lol.
Cheers
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Thanks you very much Vinnie for the prompt reply.
How would you compare sq wise between the Level 3 mod running straight from the wall without batteries vs the Level 2.5 Mod? The reason for me asking is because if the Level 3 mod running straight from the wall is basically equivalent to that of the 2.5 mod then I might as well go for level 3 mode and have it run from the wall for casual listening and switch over to run off the battery if I am in for a bit of delight or showing it off to a friend ..lol.
Cheers
Hi eso,
I'd say Level 2.5 is VERY CLOSE to LEVEL 3 in running/charge mode (where the batteries are being charged and the Sony is playing at the same time).
Cheers!
Vinnie
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Don't know if this has been talked about yet, but can you add a USB output to this player to make it a transport? As well as modding the digital sections for better performance?
I think this would be sweeeeeet....
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Don't know if this has been talked about yet, but can you add a USB output to this player to make it a transport? As well as modding the digital sections for better performance?
I think this would be sweeeeeet....
Hi paul79,
I agree it would be sweet to convert the Z1ES to a dedicated transport, but to be able to do this so it outputs a USB out and can output both PCM and DSD would be quite difficult, and not something I have time to dedicate to.
All the best,
Vinnie
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Heard ya..... Thanks for the response and your time!
I also wish you the very best on your new Lio. It looks to be a fantastic all in one'er, and an extremely well thought out design. Look out Devialet!!
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Heard ya..... Thanks for the response and your time!
I also wish you the very best on your new Lio. It looks to be a fantastic all in one'er, and an extremely well thought out design. Look out Devialet!!
Hi paul79,
Thanks for your kind words!
Cheers,
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie.
I have a very important question.: do the HAP Z1ES mods pass along a DC voltage when connected directly to a power amp? I am keenly interested in the JOB MONO 250 that iI read is DC COUPLED, whatever that means. I do know that my FOCAL ELECTRA wouldn't be too happy to receive that DC?
This is my very first time to post to a thread so I apologize if there's anything I've done wrong,,, including my grammar!
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Hi Vinnie.
I have a very important question.: do the HAP Z1ES mods pass along a DC voltage when connected directly to a power amp? I am keenly interested in the JOB MONO 250 that iI read is DC COUPLED, whatever that means. I do know that my FOCAL ELECTRA wouldn't be too happy to receive that DC?
This is my very first time to post to a thread so I apologize if there's anything I've done wrong,,, including my grammar!
Hi gasron67,
Welcome to the RWA forum!
No, there should be no dc offset voltage on the outputs of the RWA-Z1ES mods.
All the best,
Vinnie
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That's great! Now I just have to start saving for your level 3 mods. Thanks for the prompt reply.
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Hello,
I have recently ordered a HAPZ1ES and recognized a hum, probably arising from one of the power supplies or maybe the hard disk.
I've returned the first unit and got another one in exchange - still again with the same hum.
The spare device has a different MAC address, however still very close to the MAC address of the previous unit.
Now my questions:
Has anyone discovered a hum, too?
If so, has the root cause been analysed? Workaround/Resolution possible - even by Sony support?
Thanks,
Andreas
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Andreas - the same hum on two different units would point toward something in the playback environment that is causing the hum.
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Deleted.
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Hi, finsup.
I'm pretty certain there are quite a few alternatives out there now (and more soon to be announced). However, this is Vinnie's circle, so I wouldn't wish to step on his toes by making competing suggestions here. I do not know how other units compare to the Sony model BTW. It might be more appropriate to discuss this in the 'Diskless Circle'.
Just my thought... :)
Michael
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You're right, Michael. I wasn't sure. It is moot now anyway as I bought the HAP-Z1ES today. Thanks.
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I got to check out the HAP-Z1ES and its li'l brother at the 2014 Axpona. I was quite impressed, but I wasn't in the market for something like that at the time. Upon thinking about your post, I realize I really ought to consider buying this or a similar model for my setup in Taiwan. My 2-channel system is a good 40' away from my computer, so I stream Mac Mini music content via my Squeezebox Touch, which is great until either my computer or the LMS updates and I have to figure out what the heck just happened. I could avoid that with a a player/streamer.
Once you get your music player set up, post your impressions here or in the discless circle. I'm interested in your thoughts and reactions.
Michael
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I've been using SanDisk 940GB SSD drive for many months. Easy install and zero issues. I couldn't tell any sonic improvements, but it is faster slightly and silent. The original HD wasn't noisy, just slow.
Ripping CDs direct to internal drive is great. I've sent a msg to my Sony JP contact about adding the ability to playback CD in a future FW update. He said they will think about it. We'll see if that happens. It would be double awesome if Sony update with the ability to rip SACD via SonyBR drive to internal HD in DSD. Ok, now I'm dreaming... back to bed. :p