Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List

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witchdoctor

I have gotten more mileage and more pleasure from my Paradigm speakers that the value delivered borders on the ridiculous. If you are shopping for speakers you need to put Paradigm on your audition list. I have owned speakers by JBL, Deftech, Polk, Boston Acoustics and listened to many more. The Paradigm speakers I own range from the Reference Active series, the Reference Series that are passive, the Paradigm Shift A2's and the Paradigm Cinema series. They are all timber matched perfectly so if you want to mix and match you are good. Paradigm was built on the shoulders of Floyd Tool. Floyd is not just some guy building speakers in his basement, the guy is an audio legend. Paradigm (founded in 1982) has been able to benefit from the research into blind listening tests carried out by a team led by Dr. Floyd Toole at Canada's National Research Council in Ottawa.
Paradigm builds there speakers in there own factory. When I needed to replace the driver on my active 20 I sent it in, they reconed it for me and sent it back. Much cheaper than buying a new driver.
They sell SOA speakers for $30K a pair, home theater systems at various price points ranging from luxury to standard quality, DTS-Playfi whole house audio speakers that blow away sonos for a few hundred dollars a pair,, on wall speakers, in wall speakers, indoor, outdoor, you name it. Quality build, stand behind there products, great value, and have the DNA of Floyd Tooles research behind them. Another great thing is they sell through DEALERS. That means you can go listen to them in a store or have the store bring and install them for you, very nice.
So, put them on your audition list, especially if you have a dealer nearby.  :thumb:


« Last Edit: 2 May 2020, 07:28 pm by witchdoctor »

JLM

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #1 on: 2 May 2020, 12:04 pm »
Don't believe Toole was ever an employee of Paradigm, instead he worked for the National Research Council (previously known as the Canadian Research Council) that supported Canadian audio companies with extensive research resources.  I do know that Paradigm leaned heavily on the Council.  But have not seen them incorporate the latest thinking from the Council, that of controlled directivity and use of multiple subwoofers. 

The best thing I can say about Paradigm is that they have an honest presentation that lacks any house sound.  Many audiophiles have a hard time warming up to that.  But they also have an artificial "hi-fi" sort of sound that doesn't sound like real (unamplified/live) music. 

Maybe 20 years ago auditioned Paradigm Studio 20 v.2 ($800/pair 2-way passive monitors) versus Paradigm Active 20 ($1600/pair, same drivers/cabinet).  It was no contest and an epiphany for me.  Unfortunately audiophiles are too drunk on the hunter mentality (want to keep hunting for lots of big flashy trophies), so actives with built-in amps chosen by the speaker manufacturer don't sell to audiophiles (but are the main stay of studios where our music is made). 
« Last Edit: 3 May 2020, 01:48 pm by JLM »

witchdoctor

Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #2 on: 2 May 2020, 02:21 pm »
Here you can see the Active 20's on the tall stands as height speakers in my media room, the Active 40's as L-R, the Active CC below the screen, the Cinema 400 mounted on the ceiling as a center height channel and the Shift A2's as wide channels. Every Active speaker is biamped internally through an active crossover. It would be a royal PIA plus $$$ to buy that many channels of external amplification and run all the interconnects plus all the speaker wire. Instead I just run a Mogami XLR cable to each speaker. If you liked the Active 20's the Shift A2 Active Speakers are still available on Amazon:




Doublej

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #3 on: 2 May 2020, 04:18 pm »
I have gotten more mileage and more pleasure from my Paradigm speakers that the value delivered borders on the ridiculous. If you are shopping for speakers you need to put Paradigm on your audition list. I have owned speakers by JBL, Deftech, Polk, Boston Acoustics and listened to many more. The Paradigm speakers I own range from the Reference Active series, the Reference Series that are passive, the Paradigm Shift A2's and the Paradigm Cinema series. They are all timber matched perfectly so if you want to mix and match you are good. Paradigm was built on the shoulders of Floyd Toole who worked for Paradigm before moving to Harman. Floyd is not just some guy building speakers in his basement, the guy is an audio legend. Paradigm (founded in 1982) has been able to benefit from the research into blind listening tests carried out by a team led by Dr. Floyd Toole at Canada's National Research Council in Ottawa.
Paradigm builds there speakers in there own factory. When I needed to replace the driver on my active 20 I sent it in, they reconed it for me and sent it back. Much cheaper than buying a new driver.
They sell SOA speakers for $30K a pair, home theater systems at various price points ranging from luxury to standard quality, DTS-Playfi whole house audio speakers that blow away sonos for a few hundred dollars a pair,, on wall speakers, in wall speakers, indoor, outdoor, you name it. Quality build, stand behind there products, great value, and have the DNA of Floyd Tooles research behind them. Another great thing is they sell through DEALERS. That means you can go listen to them in a store or have the store bring and install them for you, very nice.
So, put them on your audition list, especially if you have a dealer nearby.  :thumb:

Floyd's LinkedIn profile makes no mention of employment at Paradigm.  :scratch:

rajacat

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #4 on: 2 May 2020, 04:46 pm »
Don't believe Toole was ever an employee of Paradigm, instead he worked for the National Research Council (previously known as the Canadian Research Council) that supported Canadian audio companies with extensive research resources.  I do know that Paradigm leaned heavily on the Council.  But have not seen them incorporate the latest thinking from the Council, that of controlled directivity and use of multiple subwoofers. 

The best thing I can say about Paradigm is that they have an honest presentation that lacks any house sound.  Many audiophiles have a hard time warming up to that. 

Maybe 20 years ago auditioned Paradigm Studio 20 v.2 ($800/pair 2-way passive monitors) versus Paradigm Active 20 ($1600/pair, same drivers/cabinet).  It was no contest and an epiphany for me.  Unfortunately audiophiles are too drunk on the hunter mentality (want to keep hunting for lots of big flashy trophies), so actives with built-in amps chosen by the speaker manufacturer don't sell to audiophiles (but are the main stay of studios where our music is made).
Why don't you use active speakers in your 2 channel system?

witchdoctor

Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #5 on: 2 May 2020, 07:39 pm »
Floyd's LinkedIn profile makes no mention of employment at Paradigm.  :scratch:

I corrected my post, thanks:

Allow me to briefly transport you back thirty years ago to some ground-breaking research at the National Research Council (NRC) of Ottawa, Canada. The NRC is the Canadian Government’s principal research and development organization. It covers a wide range of disciplines like biotech, astrophysics, fuel cell innovation, transportation technology and nanotech. This organization has helped Canada become one of the top research and development leaders in the world.
One of their programs involved psycho-acoustic research led by Canadian physicist Dr. Floyd Toole. The point of this research was to determine what design criteria and measured performance were crucial to creating a good loudspeaker which a majority of listeners would prefer. Several young Canadian speaker designers worked with Toole and developed new speaker measurements and listening tests.

Many of these participants used the fruits of the research for their own products. Some even formed their own companies. Firms such as PSB, Axiom, API (Energy, Mirage, Sound Dynamics, and Athena), Harmon International (Revel, Infinity) and Paradigm used this data as the basis for their overall design methodology.
https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/paradigm/1.html

JLM

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #6 on: 3 May 2020, 12:07 pm »
Why don't you use active speakers in your 2 channel system?

16 years ago I commissioned single driver speakers from Bob Brines (retired) that used Fostex F200a drivers (8 inch AlNiCo, whizzerless, rated 30-20,000 Hz) which fit my tastes very well, very musical.  Plus got them EnABL'd by Bud Purvine, who developed the treatment process for improved midrange and treble clarity.  And since have added "Late Ceiling Splash" tweeters as recommended by Duke LeJeune (which allows for a wider soundstage and improved treble) and three subwoofers as recommended by Earl Geddes (to reduce in-room bass peaks/dips).  Please realize that single driver speakers are in fact the original active designs by default.

But did dabble in modern active speakers for awhile: Dynaudio BM5 Mk3 (fairly compact 2-way) and JBL 708P (large 2-way with waveguide).  Liked them just fine, especially the 708P (probably the best overall speaker I could have bought, very dynamic and detailed).  Sold the Dynaudio's when I got the JBL's.  The JBL's used internal ADC and DAC which I found out were of pedestrian quality (typical of all such active speakers) and that the last DAC in the chain dictates the quality over that of external DAC's used upstream.  Note that I had a nice DAC at the time. So now I support the use of "analog" active speakers (that lack internal digital conversions).   

That bugged me and would take a bath trying to sell my commissioned speakers.  So when the chance came up to pick up a NAD M10 "streaming amplifier" I jumped and sold on the JBL's.  Are my single driver speakers better than the JBL's?  No, but they fit my tastes and needs.  Others in my small audio club think I'm nuts, maybe I'm just a proud papa. 

Good "analog" active speaker manufacturers include Adam, Genelec, and Neumann.  They are well respected and popular among studio professionals, and sell only active monitors.  Adam uses ribbon tweeters.  Genelec and Neumann uses controlled directivity.  Note the Genelec mostly sells "digital" active speakers.  Each company is rich in history, R&D, and in-house manufacturing (like Paradigm and JBL).  JBL  also sells "analog" active speakers but only their inexpensive 305/306/308 models.
« Last Edit: 3 May 2020, 01:46 pm by JLM »

EcksDee

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #7 on: 3 May 2020, 12:44 pm »
A friend of mine has the Paradigm monitor se 6000f. Now I don’t know about the higher up models but this is a 1000usd pair model. It’s really trashy. I had a pair of Elac B6 and my DIY 300 dollar Tower speakers. Both slaughtered it in every way possible. It was worse in imaging, way smaller soundstage. The only thing it had going for it was sensitivity. Although having 5 mids, one would think that it would take some power and go loud, but the Paradigm used to literally fall apart and couldn’t handle the Denon AVR power. It used to break up. Lose clarity. Higher crossover subwoofer point didn’t help. So even the sensitivity wasn’t worth much. Bad experience with Paradigm for me. I’m sure they’ve better models.

zerojeff

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #8 on: 3 May 2020, 01:17 pm »
I used to sell Paradigm speakers years ago. Never really that impressed with them. Good entry level speakers but just didn’t tick any boxes for me.

witchdoctor

Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #9 on: 3 May 2020, 11:34 pm »
Right now I think Paradigm's best value is the Premium Wireless (PW line) of products which as I write this are 50% off. The PW line are Paradigms products for whole house audio. They run on the open DTS-Playfi ecosystem. The active speakers can either be connected via wifi to your network for streaming using the Playfi app or you can use the analog connection in. The speakers come with their own microphone so you can run the ARC room correction. If you want to add a sub the products have a "sub out" and when you run the ARC room correction it will use room correction on the sub and the speakers together. The line also has an amp and preamp. I own the PW amp and use it in my desktop system. ARC just wraps me in a bubble of sound and the speakers disappear. At full retail these were a Sound and Vision Top Pick. At half off the value is tough to beat. You get the speakers, the amps, ARC room correction, and can use it with an analog connection or digital depending on your needs:
Website:
https://www.paradigm.com/en/promotion?promo=wireless-streaming-savings

Review ( the playfi app has been upgraded many times since this review and playfi now offers a ton of streaming services):
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/paradigm-premium-wireless-multiroom-audio-system-review

Owners manual:
https://www.paradigm.com/index.php?controller=attachment&id_attachment=200&display=inline

timind

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #10 on: 3 May 2020, 11:50 pm »
Years ago I had a pair of 9SE MKIII speakers. Great sound until my son blew a couple of the woofers. After some searching I bought the Studio 60 v.2 but never warmed to them. With less than a year on them one of the tweeters crumbled into pieces. They wouldn't honor the warranty because, without any proof, I drove them too hard. Last Paradigm speaker for me.

richidoo

Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #11 on: 4 May 2020, 04:48 am »
I heard the new Paradigm Persona 5F at my local dealer over the winter. I thought they sounded really good. Clean and neutral, somewhat engaging even with Anthem electronics. He only had bluray movies to play so I'd like to go back with some music and my own integrated amp and cables sometime. But the price is ridiculous. My Legacy speakers are far better value, imo.

I auditioned Paradigm Studio 100s back in 2005, I thought they were just OK. They were on Stereophile cover at the time with a rave review. That's when I figured out the audio magazine scam. :roll:

witchdoctor

Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #12 on: 4 May 2020, 10:48 pm »
When it comes to reviews I always like to compare 3 sources when possible. The professional review, owners reviews posted on Amazon and www.audioreview.com and then chat with members here on AC. I was shocked with a product called the Klipsch Gate, a music streamer I bought on Amazon for around $25. I saw a review online posted by a pro, read the reviews on Amazon and then started a thread here and saw fellow members chime in with their own feedback.

When I bought my first Paradigm Speakers the Reference Active 40's I saw about 3 pro reviews that were very positive like this one:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/paradigm_active40.htm

Then I saw a boatload of happy Active 40 owners posting reviews here:

http://www.audioreview.com/product/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/paradigm-reference/active-40.html

When I saw a good deal I jumped on it and have followed that same process for pretty much all of my audio purchases.

Phil A

Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #13 on: 5 May 2020, 12:02 am »
I heard the new Paradigm Persona 5F at my local dealer over the winter. I thought they sounded really good. Clean and neutral, somewhat engaging even with Anthem electronics. He only had bluray movies to play so I'd like to go back with some music and my own integrated amp and cables sometime. But the price is ridiculous. My Legacy speakers are far better value, imo.

I auditioned Paradigm Studio 100s back in 2005, I thought they were just OK. They were on Stereophile cover at the time with a rave review. That's when I figured out the audio magazine scam. :roll:

I'd concur with the above comments.  Heard them a bunch of times over the years and thought they were OK.  At the recent February 2020 Florida Audio Expo, they were paired with Anthem electronics and they surpised me how good they sounded.  Was not expecting that.

rajacat

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #14 on: 5 May 2020, 05:17 pm »
16 years ago I commissioned single driver speakers from Bob Brines (retired) that used Fostex F200a drivers (8 inch AlNiCo, whizzerless, rated 30-20,000 Hz) which fit my tastes very well, very musical.  Plus got them EnABL'd by Bud Purvine, who developed the treatment process for improved midrange and treble clarity.  And since have added "Late Ceiling Splash" tweeters as recommended by Duke LeJeune (which allows for a wider soundstage and improved treble) and three subwoofers as recommended by Earl Geddes (to reduce in-room bass peaks/dips).  Please realize that single driver speakers are in fact the original active designs by default.

But did dabble in modern active speakers for awhile: Dynaudio BM5 Mk3 (fairly compact 2-way) and JBL 708P (large 2-way with waveguide).  Liked them just fine, especially the 708P (probably the best overall speaker I could have bought, very dynamic and detailed).  Sold the Dynaudio's when I got the JBL's.  The JBL's used internal ADC and DAC which I found out were of pedestrian quality (typical of all such active speakers) and that the last DAC in the chain dictates the quality over that of external DAC's used upstream.  Note that I had a nice DAC at the time. So now I support the use of "analog" active speakers (that lack internal digital conversions).   

That bugged me and would take a bath trying to sell my commissioned speakers.  So when the chance came up to pick up a NAD M10 "streaming amplifier" I jumped and sold on the JBL's.  Are my single driver speakers better than the JBL's?  No, but they fit my tastes and needs.  Others in my small audio club think I'm nuts, maybe I'm just a proud papa. 

Good "analog" active speaker manufacturers include Adam, Genelec, and Neumann.  They are well respected and popular among studio professionals, and sell only active monitors.  Adam uses ribbon tweeters.  Genelec and Neumann uses controlled directivity.  Note the Genelec mostly sells "digital" active speakers.  Each company is rich in history, R&D, and in-house manufacturing (like Paradigm and JBL).  JBL  also sells "analog" active speakers but only their inexpensive 305/306/308 models.
My DIY speakers share many of the characteristics of studio monitors with their 18" wave guides and 15" woofers. I suspect that the reason many aren't attracted to pro type active monitors is that they're tuned to achieve a flat freq. response whereas most people prefer a sloping response with the upper region attenuated. The pro monitors are designed for pro studios that have extensive sound treatments. OTOH the typical consumer living room has few or no acoustical treatments to mollify the upper region. Also many pro speakers look like a piece of luggage.  :)

Photon46

Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #15 on: 5 May 2020, 05:27 pm »
I'd concur with the above comments.  Heard them a bunch of times over the years and thought they were OK.  At the recent February 2020 Florida Audio Expo, they were paired with Anthem electronics and they surpised me how good they sounded.  Was not expecting that.

I was there too and thought they gave a good account of themselves. They were running smart demo sessions that were marred by far too loud playback levels for my tastes, it was borderline painful. Their previous demos at last years FLAX made a favorable impression as well IMO. I wasn't impressed to point I'd consider buying them, but they weren't substandard by any means.

Tom Bombadil

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #16 on: 5 May 2020, 05:58 pm »
It should be noted that Paradigm specs their speakers accurately, even for the usually inflated sensitivity spec.  I remember reading two lab test reports on their speakers which had been spec'ed at 91db.  They tested right at that mark.  Whereas  three other well-known high-efficiency speakers spec'ed at 96 and 97 also tested at 91. 

bladesmith

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Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #17 on: 5 May 2020, 06:09 pm »
 :popcorn:

Phil A

Re: Why Paradigm Speakers Need to Be on Your Audition List
« Reply #18 on: 5 May 2020, 06:27 pm »
I was there too and thought they gave a good account of themselves. They were running smart demo sessions that were marred by far too loud playback levels for my tastes, it was borderline painful. Their previous demos at last years FLAX made a favorable impression as well IMO. I wasn't impressed to point I'd consider buying them, but they weren't substandard by any means.

Yes the demo was loud (even a bit for my liking and I like it loud).  There were only a handful of rooms (at the Florida Audio Expo) where I was able to listen to the music I brought.  In 2019, I stayed over (and got there the night before and left the day after) aa days.  I decided this year that the hotel prices were up a bit, it got too crowded last year on Saturday, and I drove, got their essentially just before it opened on Friday, stayed one night and left around lunch time on Saturday and it was starting to get too crowded.  I also decided, even before news of the pandemic, that I probably wasn't going to go to another audio show just for the audio show (been to a bunch of Capital Audiofests and RMAF) unless I was going to do something else in the area where a show was held or the audio show is in reasonable driving distance for me (Tampa isn't, Orlando would be). 

I do understand the need for so many rooms to make a show worthwhile to the owners, but when it gets crowded to the point where a good demo isn't possible, given the fact I'm not really in the market for anything, I'll likely pass (have a friend who has never gone to one, not a die hard audiophile but would like to go, and if he wants to drive with me paying for gas and food I might reconsider if it is on Friday).  If there is something I wanted, I'd contact the exhibitor and if I reached an agreement, I'd go at the end of the show and pick it up (probably have been to 7 shows over the last decade).  Given the current state of things, it really isn't an issue.  I don't exepect for this year and probably most, if not all, of next year, shows won't be happening.

The problem with many of the shows is for the most part that the big rooms can fit more people but are bigger than the rooms we have at home (at least for me).  Most of the smaller rooms are smaller than my main room (I have secondary systems is rooms closer to that size).  I've heard speakers that I like and would consider buying, paricularly in the case of one room where I have my UHD system.  My B&W P6s, which I use as mains and bought new, date back to around 1997.  Still sound nice (wouldn't mind selling them locally - almost did about 6.5 years back when I moved but didn't quite have time fixing up things at the old house and managing construction at the new one 900 miles apart - but didn't have much time to do that) and the audiophile in me has heard things I like and I wouldn't mind revampling the system.  Currently, have a Maraztz 5010 with a preamp with HT Bypass and a nice Mivera amp and have 7 channels (including the two back in-ceiling ones I use for Atmos).  Wouldn't mind adding (at some point) front Atmos speakers and have a 9 channel receiver and new speakers but for now I'm upgrading the TV.