[newzooreview]

Hi,

I've placed an order for the M3 Sapphires, and I'm really looking forward to them.

Is there anything you wish you had known in your first month or so of owning the Sapphire's?

My current speakers are Harbeth 30.1 with REL subwoofers. In addition to all of the benefits of open baffle bass, the M3s will help with the speaker footprint in the room (which is being rearranged). The Harbeths have been a great pleasure, but the binaural demos on the New Record Day Youtube channel convinced me that the M3s will have an incomparably coherent, textured, and tonally correct bass presentation that excellent box speakers and subs can't achieve.

My plans and expectations at this point:

1. I'll get them out 3 feet from the wall and toe them in 15 degrees as a starting point.

2. I'll give them 60 hours of break in and then experiment with placement more. I bought some Herbie's Threaded Stud Gliders to use in place of the supplied spikes so that I can move them more easily.

3. I expect the manual is accurate in assessing break-in, and I will give them the time needed.

I've owned a good number of speakers and liked many of them, but this might end up being the first time that I hear real bass in its full presentation (in my room, at least.)

[musicdre]

re break in - SERIOUSLY do not worry about the way that they sound in the break-in period.  they WILL improve.

[Audiosaurusrex]

Break in yes definitely, Footers as you mentioned definitely. Bass really does take some time. For me 150-200 hours but I was in the midst of changing amps from SS to tubes. You will have a great time listening to these speakers. I also recommend some room treatments if you haven’t done that already.
Congratulations new zoo!

[newzooreview]

Break in yes definitely, Footers as you mentioned definitely. Bass really does take some time. For me 150-200 hours but I was in the midst of changing amps from SS to tubes. You will have a great time listening to these speakers. I also recommend some room treatments if you haven’t done that already.
Congratulations new zoo!

Thanks!

Any thoughts on treatments for the wall behind the Sapphires? I have nothing on the front (behind the speakers) wall.

Is a bass trap best (to keep the rear lobe of bass from reflecting back into the room)?

Or a more traditional panel like GIK?

Which frequencies coming off the front wall (behind the Sapphires) are likely to be most problematic?

I have seen photos from the Spatial -- Linear Tube Audio shows and they used what looked like a 3" panel behind the speakers. Maybe that was "better than nothing" or actually optimal?

[newzooreview]

re break in - SERIOUSLY do not worry about the way that they sound in the break-in period.  they WILL improve.

Much appreciated.

It's good to know that I'll need to be patient and not jump to conclusions.

I definitely don't question break-in, for speakers in particular.

 

[Audiosaurusrex]

Thanks!

Any thoughts on treatments for the wall behind the Sapphires? I have nothing on the front (behind the speakers) wall.

Is a bass trap best (to keep the rear lobe of bass from reflecting back into the room)?

Or a more traditional panel like GIK?

Which frequencies coming off the front wall (behind the Sapphires) are likely to be most problematic?

I have seen photos from the Spatial -- Linear Tube Audio shows and they used what looked like a 3" panel behind the speakers. Maybe that was "better than nothing" or actually optimal?

So I did a number of things in my room to get it to where I’m satisfied and based on your room, size, dimensions, flooring, furniture, etc. you might need to tone the room down. If you check my gallery I have some pics posted but I did do GIK diffusers on front and back walls and quite a bit of absorption behind and in corners. For me though the Spatials finally clicked when I went from SS to tubes. The Holographic Soundstage pops with my Octave V70 Class A. Not sure what your driving them with but I do think the “midrange is where the soundstage lives”.

[jjss49]

read the manual, carefully

believe what is stated there, all of it, follow instructions

if any questions, go to clayton directly

believe what he says

[newzooreview]

Not sure what your driving them with but I do think the “midrange is where the soundstage lives”.

I'm using a Benchmark AHB2. I have a SET amp that doesn't get to 4 watts (much less 8 watts) and a Jolida integrated that has good lushness and layering, but was always a little sloppy in the bass, even with the Harbeths.

The AHB2 has given me a wide and deep soundstage with excellent tone, and plenty of resolution. It has let me hear the differences in changing sources over the last year. So, it's probably a reasonable starting point.

I don't live very far from Linear Tube Audio, however, so I will see if they have a recommendation and possibly a pair of Sapphires on hand (or loaner amps) to audition.

I am also curious about the Hegel H20 as an option, but I'm not necessarily worried that the AHB2 will be a limitation.

[doggie]

I'm using a Benchmark AHB2. I have a SET amp that doesn't get to 4 watts (much less 8 watts) and a Jolida integrated that has good lushness and layering, but was always a little sloppy in the bass, even with the Harbeths.

The AHB2 has given me a wide and deep soundstage with excellent tone, and plenty of resolution. It has let me hear the differences in changing sources over the last year. So, it's probably a reasonable starting point.

I don't live very far from Linear Tube Audio, however, so I will see if they have a recommendation and possibly a pair of Sapphires on hand (or loaner amps) to audition.

I am also curious about the Hegel H20 as an option, but I'm not necessarily worried that the AHB2 will be a limitation.

I live near LTA also. They do have a pair of M3 Sapphires in their shop for auditioning. If you like those you might consider a pair of X5/3's as they have the bass driver powered by a Hypex amp so your SET will not be doing much heavy lifting.

[Mr. Big]

From my other post but useful for this post.

I owned Quads Electrostatics, Dynaudio Confidence 5's, Legacy Focus, and today Spatial Audio Sapphires M3's. All of them were made better by the back wall having bass traps, and other smaller panels around the room, If I really wanted to go back as I once had was GIK side wall absorbers, but for looks, I've gone to canvas pictures to deaden the side walls a bit. ASC 8" by 48" panels on my walls around the room, even one of them right between the speakers behind the window blind, even taken that one away impacts the sound, and to show how important the back wall is, even turning the blinds in one direction or another will change the sound completely.  I found facing them upwards but not closed really helped imaging and body and looking at it the blinds are acting as a large diffuser. Your room is your sound, so treat it, and if I may say get racks and everything else away from in between your speakers if you can, have your amp on a stand and that is it, you will benefit by doing so. Even taking off the flux green plants on top of the bass traps hurts the sound and imaging from the speakers, the front wall is important to treat.

[ric]

I would recommend doing this: NOTHING. Adding or presupposing what should be done may be too much. 1) Get used to the sound, which means ample break in. 2) Work with positioning the speakers in the room, contrary to non OB speakers, moving them even 1/2" towards or away from the back wall will affect bass (OB bass gets lighter as you move towards the corners of the room). 3) Once you feel like the speakers are dialed in and you are loving the sound, then just listen! Over time, something may bother you sound wise, THEN, depending on the severity of what you hear and have ruled out speaker position and break in, would be the time to play with room interaction, cables, etc.
    In the mean time if you can, watch Dennis Foley's videos on You Tube (Acoustic Fields). He has a wealth of information on why room interaction is paramount.
Have fun!

[franSSS]

I would recommend doing this: NOTHING. Adding or presupposing what should be done may be too much. 1) Get used to the sound, which means ample break in. 2) Work with positioning the speakers in the room, contrary to non OB speakers, moving them even 1/2" towards or away from the back wall will affect bass (OB bass gets lighter as you move towards the corners of the room). 3) Once you feel like the speakers are dialed in and you are loving the sound, then just listen! Over time, something may bother you sound wise, THEN, depending on the severity of what you hear and have ruled out speaker position and break in, would be the time to play with room interaction, cables, etc.
    In the mean time if you can, watch Dennis Foley's videos on You Tube (Acoustic Fields). He has a wealth of information on why room interaction is paramount.
Have fun!

Now this makes a lot of sense to me.

I have been battling with the same concern of 1st getting someone specialized to come and "treat" my room before the speakers arrive. I better understand the value of wait and understand 1st. "In the multitude of Counselors"....

[Audiosaurusrex]

I would recommend doing this: NOTHING. Adding or presupposing what should be done may be too much. 1) Get used to the sound, which means ample break in. 2) Work with positioning the speakers in the room, contrary to non OB speakers, moving them even 1/2" towards or away from the back wall will affect bass (OB bass gets lighter as you move towards the corners of the room). 3) Once you feel like the speakers are dialed in and you are loving the sound, then just listen!
Have fun!

Ric is ultimately right on this. I made my adjustments over time, like almost two years. This was coming from Vandersteen 2ces and Krell gear. The Benchmark is a very nice amp so you should hear amazing results right away that will just keep getting better. For me what initially bugged me with break in was the harsh tweeter and that smoothed out quickly. The bass does take some time to develop so just have a great time listening after all that’s the whole point. It’s very easy to get to analytical about room acoustics but we do want the best sound possible.

[newzooreview]

Thank you all. I will definitely give it time and evolve things slowly after the Sapphires are broken in. Your thoughts give me some things to have in the back of my mind as things develop.

For what it's worth, the setup is Intel NUC 10 running Roon ROCK --> USB to Holo May KTE DAC --> Holo Serene KTE pre-amp --> Benchmark AHB2 amp. The interconnects are all star-quad XLR from Benchmark and USB cable is from Kitsune (the US distributor for Holo).

Thanks again for your ideas and insight.