AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Acoustics Circle => Topic started by: fado on 25 Mar 2023, 01:01 am
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Most equipment racks use hardwood, high density composites or even granite for shelves. It seems like dense materials would be more likely to transmit vibrations to components instead of dampening them. Wouldn’t softwoods like redwood or cedar be better at absorbing/dampening vibrations and thus less likely to affect the component?
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MDF is a good option, for this reason.
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I do have a quatity of 1-3/4" thick close grain all heart redwood. Do you think it would be suitable?
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It appears the suspension of the individual shelves is as least as important as the shelving material, perhaps moreso. I would imagine you'd want to know the mechanical properties of the shelf in order to design a mounting system that complimented the material. Of course this is easier with manufactured shelving be it high density fiberboard, metal, stone, whatever. Then again you could go with mass and make the thing as friggin heavy as humanly possible, which makes the design much simpler.
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It appears the suspension of the individual shelves is as least as important as the shelving material, perhaps moreso.
This.... along with isolating each component and the shelf material shouldn't matter so much. The good ones are sturdy, hence the dense materials compared to the inexpensive ones that use 1/2" MDF shelves.
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Thick wood is my not so secret equipment rack material.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251284)
My methodology is a hardwood rack and maple platforms on top of IsoAcoustic IsoPucks
Don P
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I do have a quatity of 1-3/4" thick close grain all heart redwood. Do you think it would be suitable?
Yes, that should work beautifully. Some components still might need some more isolation, but the redwood should provide very good dampening. I used 2" thick oak shelves in a rack I built years ago and that worked very well.
Good luck,
JCarney
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251284)
My methodology is a hardwood rack and maple platforms on top of IsoAcoustic IsoPucks
Don P
Where did you get your rack? I'm looking for something like this.
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Purchased from a local hifi shop that is no longer in business. I might suggest timbernation.com for quality hardwood rack.
Don P
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There's French company called NorStone, that makes really nice audio/video funiture, hifi racks, speaker stands, etc...
They have distributors for North America, so their products can be ordered at your local store.Here's the link;
https://en.norstone-design.com/
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There's French company called NorStone, that makes really nice audio/video funiture, hifi racks, speaker stands, etc...
They have distributors for North America, so their products can be ordered at your local store.Here's the link;
https://en.norstone-design.com/
Purchased from a local hifi shop that is no longer in business. I might suggest timbernation.com for quality hardwood rack.
Don P
Thank you both.
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Here (https://www.wayfair.com/furniture/pdp/gracie-oaks-bethel-solid-wood-tv-stand-for-tvs-up-to-60-w001046572.html?piid=)is an affordable solution made of solid hardwood Acacia. For the price you couldn't buy the wood from a raw slab wood seller. I don't care for the legs but one could fab up an alternative.
I plan on making a an AV stand that offers more equipment space than my current "K-Mart" solution (cheesy silver painted mdf cabinet with two glass shelves) and I will be using slab woods. Not because the manufactured stuff isn't good but because I love wood working, it's one of my hobbies.
I have not used stone for anything but speaker bases and as long as they are isolated they work well and look good. In my opinion stone just passes vibration through and must be isolated from the floor, especially if it is a suspended floor. A previous abode had a large living/dining room space with a poorly built suspended floor made of 2x6 joists on 16" centers and 1x4 stringers between the joists. Footfalls were death to my turntable there. My current place is not much better but I now have a 3" slab wood table made of Honey Locust that does a good job of minimizing vibrations. Wood is also my preference for the warm aesthetic it lends to decor.
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A few years ago, I had a rack made for me. The supporting frame is made from rectangular 1" x 2" steel tubes welded together. The steel vertical supporting skeleton is located to the rear, so it appears <from the front> that the shelves are floating. Each shelf is ~2" thick black walnut. Each contact point between wood and steel supports is isolated with a sheet of silicone. [Imagine a sandwich wood/silicone/steel bolted together.] All the materials and construction cost me $1500. Once it was set up, I added six Isoacoutics feet/pucks for further isolation (not included in the $1500 cost).
I'm pretty sure I posted pics and a brief explanation on AC when I set it up, but where the heck did I post it??? :scratch:
Photos:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210668)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210669)
The top shelf normally supports my turntable or whatever new toy I'm trying out.
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I tried a few racks over the years, from solid wood, Polycrystal, Core Audio, Solid Steel, etc. The Adona racks have given me the most balanced sound and lowest noise floor.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251543)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251544)
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Those are nice racks. Not much WAF for a living room installation like mine :lol:
Don P.
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AudioCircle...
Lets not forget that Klaus (Odyssey) makes stereo racks to order.
They may not have any exotic materials, but would apear to be made well.
Compared to some of the other Rack companies I've seen around (Massif, TemberNation) Odyssey has a bit more customization available to the customer.
(Color of pillars, Type of Veneer, Thickness of shelves, 2 tier, 3 tier, Stepped tiers, Ect.)
The best thing about working with Klaus, is his cost to the customer, I've worked with Klaus a few times, and he always trys to give a great price. The more you spend with him, the more he will find a way to lower the price.
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I had a rack made to spec by a local builder. Glued and screwed 1.875" local hardwood. Price was less than Timbernation and no assembly or shipping required. I was so pleased with the results I had another one built to replace the rack in my second system. I found the builder by inquiring at the local store that sells woodworking equipment.
I am not sure what to call the joints. The uprights were dado cut and the shelves were notched on the corners so shelves ended up flush with the outside of the uprights. Anti-Ikea. 8)
I did do the finish work myself and got a great match to my furniture and cabinets. I customize isolation under individual components.
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I do favor a rack that's as open as possible.
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The best one is an inflatable bladder with a bag of weight on top. Too many variables in mass/stiffness of floor/rack/component, footers, and frequencies to design the ideal rack (need a PhD in structural dynamics to do it right). But the rack should be between the loudspeakers and kept as low as possible to avoid disrupting the sound stage and minimize speaker cable lengths.
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I'd say it doesn't make much difference at all (except for maybe a TT). Of course it should be sturdy and level, but to go way beyond is well.......pointless.
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25 years ago I built a flexi rack using 2x6 pine laminated to build the 17x26 shelves. I now have that entire rack in a separate room so truly isolated.
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High density materials can transfer vibrations well internally. They don't absorb or transmit vibrations well from lower density mediums, like air, unless they strongly coupled, like to the floor. Generally speaking pressure waves don't like changing mediums of differing density.
So a dense rack that is isolated from the floor will perform well. Isolating the equipment from the rack will improve things further.
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For vibration isolation there should be several layers of different materials such as>
- Soft rubber 10mm
- Cork 5mm
- Felt 5mm or more
- Aluminum 3mm or other non-magnetic metal
This sandwich is suitable for isolation feets, but can be use in racks also.
Iam using aluminium 10mm.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256817)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=256818)
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Google -Mana Acoustics (No longer made).Design completely opposed to just about everything before or since but mostly superior to everything before or since
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Anyone every try bubblewrap between wood platform and shelf - as an absorption/dampening layer of a sandwich? Poor-man's "inflatable bladder" as JLM mentioned? I tried it many years and four homes ago, when I had a not-so-robust suspended wood floor listening room over a crawl space that seemed to vibrate a fair bit. Can't remember how that sounded, though.
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But the rack should be between the loudspeakers and kept as low as possible to avoid disrupting the sound stage and minimize speaker cable lengths.
I've seen manufacturers urge people never to site their equipment between speakers but instead to use longer speaker cables and locate equipment to one side. I don't take a position either way (my equipment is between my speakers) but food for thought.
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My racks are long out of production AV123 short 3 shelf units that are very rigid and I glued Herbie's Giant Fat Gliders on each leg. Each component is isolated by some form of Herbie's product. Most are Tenderfeet, Fat Dots, or Baby Booties. Although I have not used an accelerometer to measure the effectiveness of the devices, my ears do detect better clarity in the system. I make sure the mechanical units (spinners, turntables, valve gear, etc) get the better ones and components with no moving parts (SS gear, DACs, tuners, etc) get less attention.
That's my general approach. I think vibration isolation is dealt with in two disciplines of thought, mass and rigidity, or suspension and flexibilty. To couple or to uncouple, that is the question. Of course any combination of these two schools can produce better results.
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Intuition doesn't work for vibrational analysis (racks and acoustical panels).
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I've seen manufacturers urge people never to site their equipment between speakers but instead to use longer speaker cables and locate equipment to one side. I don't take a position either way (my equipment is between my speakers) but food for thought.
Any solid object between the speakers will block the soundstage forming.
Its an obvious fact but must people dont know this, so some manufacturers aware of their customers level make this warning or recommendation.
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I solved my speaker vibration issue by having tempered 3/8 inch tempered glass panels made to set the speakers on. The speakers are ATC SCM 40 V2 with spikes, and the floor is oak hardwood. This solution works very well.