[jonwb]

Well, since I'm sure everyone is dying to find out who won, I'll "cut" to the chase...  the various hidden fasteners inside my shoddily built Alpha LS enclosures put up a hell of a fight but in the end, the Stihl tore up the Alphas.  





Alright, alright, to make a long story short… about a year ago I purchased an “almost completed” Alpha LS kit from a gentleman out East.  He was having the enclosures being built by a cabinet builder.  I thought this would be a good opportunity to pick up a set of Alphas where all I would need to do was put the finishing touches on the enclosures.  Well as it turned out there were many problems with the boxes.  To name a few:

- Both boxes were for right hand speakers (didn’t mirror copy), show stopper.
- Driver holes (woofers & tweeters) were not recessed for the drivers .
- The driver holes were cut with a jig saw (not very round) so I couldn’t just use a rabbet bit for the recess.
- Inner layer particle board, not MDF.
- Braces that are supposed to run from the woofer side wall to the divider panel actually ran from just behind the thin layer of veneer on one side to just behind the thin layer veneer on the other side.  Danny said that bracing the veneer was not necessary.
- Several of the braces were placed where they were right in front of the ports.
- After a few months much of the veneer started to bubble.



You get the picture.  My plan was to try and salvage the enclosures (and save some face with my wife) by basically cutting off the face on both enclosures, gluing on new faces, wrapping the boxes in ¼” veneered plywood, chamfering the vertical edges, etc…  But, after running into one surprise after another I finally called it quits on salvaging the old enclosures.  

So, I bought 5 sheets of MDF last week and rough cut the panels for the new boxes.  I also listed out, item by item, all the steps needed to make the new enclosures (that was a bit depressing).  Anyway, there is no turning back now obviously.  I’ve had a complete Alpha LS kit sitting in my basement for almost a year now.  Many house projects, and attempts at saving the enclosures I bought, have seriously delayed the project.  Time to get these things built!

jonwb

[azryan]

Good Luck man!

Damn sad story so far! Hope it's got a happy ending!

At first I was like... "Hmmm... what speaker brand is Stihl!?!"

heheh

That first cabinet looks like particle board?

[jonwb]

inner panels were partical board, outers were MDF... which I suppose means the new boxes will be even heavier than the now deceased boxes.

It never ceases to amaze me out freakin' heavy a sheet (let alone 5) of MDF is.  My wife was really struggling to hold up her end of the MDF sheets.    

jonwb

[Danny Richie]

Sad story indeed.

Maybe we can make this thing have a happy ending?

What caps do you have with your kit?

Sonicap upgrade?

What size is the large inductor?

[jonwb]

Sad story indeed.

You're right Danny... maybe I should have my brother-in-law help me with carrying the MDF.  

What caps do you have with your kit?

Sonicap upgrade?

What size is the large inductor?

Here's a picture of some of the larger constituents of the cross-over components.  I thought about the Sonicap upgrade back when you suggested it on the forum here, but then as well as now, was not a good time to hit the wife up for a cross-over upgrade.  You may recall, I plan on building external cross-overs.  So, I figured I could do that later.

That fancy new bass management setup you are working on sounds very interesting Danny.  I'm likely to have the Alpha LSs in the corners of the room fairly far apart.  Bass traps are not a likely decorating accessory.

The large inductors that I have w/ the kit are 6.5mH.

[MaxCast]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, jonwb.  But, at least you have a sence of humor.  I'm sure you will be happy with your finished speakers after you rake the leaves, eat turkey and open presents.
Good luck,

[Hank]

jonwb, I do salute your sense of humor!  Frustration with shoddily-built cabinets: depressing.  Satisfaction of chainsawing the cabinets:  Priceless!
I hope you got some compensation from the seller.

The LS picture in your sig is one of the pair of Alpha's that I built for Danny.  No easy task.  It took about two months of my spare time and I had no help.  I think Danny was pleased, and they are HEAVY.  I think I'd charge two grand to build 'em for a customer, based on the hours of labor involved.  Actually, cutting the driver holes was easy and fairly quick with my Jasper jig-equipped router.  Good luck and enjoy.  What wife-pleasing veneer/stain will you use?

[Darren Thomas]

I hate to see poorly built cabinets...especially from a cabinet builder! I would hesitate to call him/her that after looking at and reading about the problems.

I look forward to seeing your work though, I love the look of the Alpha LS speakers...still haven't heard them though. Wish my wife would allow them in the house

[jonwb]

...I'm sure you will be happy with your finished speakers after you rake the leaves, eat turkey and open presents.

Thanks MaxCast!     I'm afraid you may be correct about the after Christmas completion.  The todo list for the speakers is long and time (especially this time of year) is hard to come by.  

I tend to be VERY picky when I work on things of this nature.  I won't be willing to sacrifice the quality by rushing through them.

jonwb, I do salute your sense of humor!  Frustration with shoddily-built cabinets: depressing.  Satisfaction of chainsawing the cabinets:  Priceless!
I hope you got some compensation from the seller.

The LS picture in your sig is one of the pair of Alpha's that I built for Danny.  No easy task.  It took about two months of my spare time and I had no help.  I think Danny was pleased, and they are HEAVY.  I think I'd charge two grand to build 'em for a customer, based on the hours of labor involve ...

Yea, Hank, at this point I have to take my lumps and get to work on those things.  I DON'T have much experience with speaker construction.  I also don't have the time to make "practice" enclosures of smaller speakers.  So, I'll be spending some time during construction making SURE that I know what settings to have on each thing as I go.  There will be lots of practice woofer, port and tweeter recesses.  (I did buy the jasper jig for the circles.)  BTW, did/do you use a straight bit or spiral (up/down) bit for recessing the driver holes???

Those enclosures you made for Danny are simply stunning.  I swear I've got a copy of every picture of these speakers that has ever been posted on the internet.  I also, have read all your warnings about the challenge of building these beasts.  

Because of my lack of experience w/ veneering, I'm taking a slightly different approach w/ building my version of these enclosures.  Basically, they will be sided w/ 1/4" Birch veneered plywood.  The trick becomes the vertical edges (seams).  But I've got a plan for that.  I also have planned a sequence that will allow me to finish the veneered plywood before I attach it to the enclosures, so I don't have to try and stain/varnish around all the holes.   In thinking this through I realized that a little planning should be able to help minimize the risk (and consequences) of mistakes.

If you guys want to be bored with exactly how I'm going to build these, let me know and I'll post my plan.

As far as the finish on the speakers, I'm going to try and match a built-in book case a friend made for me.  Not quite as red and not quite as dark as what you made for Danny.

I hate to see poorly built cabinets...especially from a cabinet builder! I would hesitate to call him/her that after looking at and reading about the problems.

At first I thought that the issues w/ the cabinets were related to the fact that the builder(s) didn't get concise enough instructions.  Later I became convinced that they didn't get concise enough instructions AND they are a bunch of frickin' hacks!  

Sorry for the long post...  thanks for the support guys!

[Danny Richie]

Hey, if you want, I will e-mail you the latest network with the bass management system.

If you want to try the latest version you can send me your old parts and I'll send you the new ones.

If you want to try the new network and upgrade to the Sonicaps (a nice upgrade on these by the way) I'll knock 25% off the Sonicap upgrade price and swap the parts out for the latest version.

Maybe that will ease your pain a little?  

[Hank]

jonwb, thanks for the compliment.  First, I use a 1 1/4" diameter rabbet bit as the Jasper circle jig instructions call for.  Be sure to do the correction when selecting the pivot pin hole in the jig.  It is made to use the diameter scale directly if you're using a 1/4" diameter bit, which is what you use to cut the driver through-holes.  Routing the driver recesses using the 1 1/4" diameter bit requires you to subtract 1" from the required driver recess diameter.  So, if you need a 7" recess diameter, select the 6" Jasper jig pivot pin hole for the guide pin.  Using a 1 1/4" diameter bit makes the calculation simple:  always subtract an inch from the required recess diameter.
I use a 1/4" diameter solid carbide spiral upcut bit to route driver through-holes in bare MDF.  If you route your through-holes after applying your veneer, use a spiral DOWNcutting bit, as it will slice downward throught the veneer layer, making a very smooth cut.
Note that most drivers are made to metric measurements and the Jasper jigs are in inches, so your recesses may either leave a gap or be a very tight fit between the vertical edge of your recess and the driver frame.

Have fun by taking your time so as to not stress out
BTW, Danny is making you a generous discount offer to change the xover parts - go for it.  Be sure to post an occasional construction photo.

[jonwb]

Hey, if you want, I will e-mail you the latest network with the bass management system.

If you want to try the latest version you can send me your old parts and I'll send you the new ones.

If you want to try the new network and upgrade to the Sonicaps (a nice upgrade on these by the way) I'll knock 25% off the Sonicap upgrade price and swap the parts out for the latest version.

Maybe that will ease your pain a little?  

That would be great Danny, I'd like to see the new network.  I really think the bass management system will be something I'll need.  (jonwb@yahoo.com).  I'm curious to see how much different the new network looks.  

Either way, thanks VERY much for the offer to replace/upgrade my parts.  I think its terrific how you stand behind your customers (even second-hand customers).   You're a good egg  

I'll shoot you an e-mail later regarding the parts swap and upgrade.

jonwb

[jonwb]

Thank you for the tips Hank.  Sorry, but I have a couple questions on the instructions you listed.  First I need to explain my plan a bit.  Below is a picture of what I’m planning for the box design.  The red lines are the MDF, the black lines represent the ¼” birch-veneered plywood.  That’s right, pre-veneered plywood, I don’t want to try and tackle doing my own veneering on a box this large.



Section 1 shows the front baffle, with the layer of ¼” plywood glued on, speaker holes all in and recessed; this complete front baffle glued to the side wall(s).  My plan is to make up this basically complete front baffle before I glue it onto the enclosure.  That way if I screw up the front baffle I don’t have to get the chainsaw out again.

Section 2 shows the side layer of ¼” plywood glued on.  You can see how it overlaps the side edge of the front panel MDF.  You can also see that I show the ¼” plywood not running all the way to the edges, don’t need to…

Section 3 shows a ¾” x ¾” chamfer cut along the vertical edge(s).  I plan on going with the bigger chamfer to compensate for the slightly wider box.  That way the flat part of the front baffle will be the same width as called for in Danny’s design.

Section 4 shows where I plan on laying a strip of material on the chamfered face(s).  It’ll be about 1” wide.  Not exactly sure what I’ll put on there yet.  I may go with a strip of brushed aluminum or Stainless.  Not sure how I’d attach that however (maybe epoxy).

There it is… for the front driver holes I plan on cutting the inner panel holes with a jig saw slightly undersized (to me cleaned up later).  Then, gluing the inner MDF, outer MDF and plywood together.  Then cutting the recess, then my driver holes from the front with the Jasper jig & router.  

Hank, sounds like you used a 1 ¼” rabbet bit (without a bearing I presume) for cutting the recess.  I guess I’m a little nervous about how close those holes are to one another and having the router breakout a thin section of wood.  That is why I had asked if might be better cut the recess with a spiral down cut bit and then the holes with a straight bit.  You’re the pro, I’d love whatever feedback you (or anyone else) may care to offer.

Jon

PS Funny side story… A couple days ago I told my wife I had posted a picture of my sawed up cabinets in a thread on this forum.  I shot her the link and she got a chuckle out of it.   Zoom ahead to today and after work today we hopped in the car together to go up North to visit her Grandma and the first thing she says is, “so… where do you think you’re going to get the money for this ‘cross-over upgrade’ you’re talking about with Danny and your internet friends.”   YIKES!  You know, its nice to be able to share your interests with your spouse but this is getting too close for comfort.   Big brother is watching (and you thought the moderators kept things on a short leash).    A female has entered our midst and its my fault.    Everyone say hi to Tammy!  

BTW, she hates these Emoticons...  

[bubba966]

Hank, sounds like you used a 1 ¼” rabbet bit (without a bearing I presume) for cutting the recess. I guess I’m a little nervous about how close those holes are to one another and having the router breakout a thin section of wood. That is why I had asked if might be better cut the recess with a spiral down cut bit and then the holes with a straight bit. You’re the pro, I’d love whatever feedback you (or anyone else) may care to offer.

If you use a new good quality 1/2" shank rabbet bit and only take off a very slight amount on your first pass (to basically score the veneer), you shouldn't have much of a problem.

A quality 1/2" shank router bit (used properly of course) will make very clean cuts. I only use 1/2" shank bits unless it's absolutely impossible to find in 1/2" shank.

[Hank]

jonwb,
The key to accurate driver hole placement, which is definitely needed with closely-spaced holes, is to very accurately measure and locate the driver hole centers.  Then you drill your circle jig pivot pin holes (must be perpindicular to the baffle).  I strongly recommend the Jasper circle jig - maybe Tammy will buy you one as an early Christmas present
The 1 1/4" rabbit bit doesn't have a bearing and doesn't need one the circle jig pivot pin will control the cut.



Hi Tammy!  Go easy on him - he'll be working hard on this project.

[jonwb]

jonwb,
The key to accurate driver hole placement, which is definitely needed with closely-spaced holes, is to very accurately measure and locate the driver hole centers.  Then you drill your circle jig pivot pin holes (must be perpindicular to the baffle).

Yes, I am a little nervous about the pin-point hole locations needed for the front baffle.  Actually, I was fortunate enough to procure a Jasper Jig last year for Christmas (still in the package).  After carefully measuring, I plan on using one of those spring loaded punches to mark/dent the center of each hole, then drill.  

I was also thinking of pre-drilling my driver fastener holes while I'm drilling my pivot holes.  I'm a little paranoid about not having the fastener holes lined up (from speaker to speaker) and thought it'd be easier to locate them on the front baffle before I cut the driver recesses & holes.  Does seem a bit risky though...

[Hank]

Just do it.  BUT, measure twice and cut once.  Seriously, I was nervous about building the cabs alone, but after I routed the recesses and holes for the woofs, then routed out the long rectangular recess and cutout for the tweets and saw the equal spacing between the woofs and the equal spacing between that long tweet rectangular opening and the adjacent woofs, I breathed a sigh of relief and forged ahead.  The rest was fine - just extremely time-consuming.  But, I was continually motivated by imagining what a cabinet shop would have charged me for all the cuts and routs and assembly time involved.

Time to stop discussing and start fabricating.  Remember the shining star of DIY:  MDF IS CHEAP.

[audiojerry]

Hey jonwb,
I was wondering what ever happened to my Brookfield neighbor's project.
Now I know - bummer.
I'm impressed with your perserverence; I hope you take Danny up on his offer.
If you want assistance with the veneering or other parts of your project, have you considered stopping at the Woodworker's store on Mayfair road for tips and also business cards of guys who offer their services?  

Tell your wife you need to focus on completing this project - there are guys waiting to hear those babies!

[jonwb]

Time to stop discussing and start fabricating. Remember the shining star of DIY: MDF IS CHEAP.

I'm goin', I'm goin'...



All 20 panels cut to EXACT width (well pretty close anyway).

Danny, did you  get the kibbles and bits?

[Andrikos]

Hey jonwb,
Good work! Did you use a table saw or did you measure every single panel?