[mykyll2727]

I was wondering on what driver recommendations you would have for a midrange to match with the RAAL 70-10D amorphous. It's a 3way modular design with dual 8" Dynaudio style polypropylene woofers in the bass cab. I'm looking for a 2way mid/tweet combo in a separate cab to mate with it. I'd like to keep the Xover point between the mid and woofers below 300Hz and even down to 200Hz or a bit less if possible(?). I've settled on the RAAL 70-10, unless you feel the extra cost of the 70-20 would be justified, and I don't mind spending some $ on the mid drivers so companies like ScanSpeak, AudioTechnology, Acoustic Elegance, etc, are not out of the price range. Even Accuton, except maybe for their most expensive units, would be acceptable as well. The sonic areas that I'm most interested in are resolution, dynamics, imaging/specificity, soundstage size (width and depth) without a presentation that's too forward. I also like a sense of weight to sounds so I'm not interested in a thin sound to have detail. What drivers in which of your designs would you recommend?

[Rick Craig]

I was wondering on what driver recommendations you would have for a midrange to match with the RAAL 70-10D amorphous. It's a 3way modular design with dual 8" Dynaudio style polypropylene woofers in the bass cab. I'm looking for a 2way mid/tweet combo in a separate cab to mate with it. I'd like to keep the Xover point between the mid and woofers below 300Hz and even down to 200Hz or a bit less if possible(?). I've settled on the RAAL 70-10, unless you feel the extra cost of the 70-20 would be justified, and I don't mind spending some $ on the mid drivers so companies like ScanSpeak, AudioTechnology, Acoustic Elegance, etc, are not out of the price range. Even Accuton, except maybe for their most expensive units, would be acceptable as well. The sonic areas that I'm most interested in are resolution, dynamics, imaging/specificity, soundstage size (width and depth) without a presentation that's too forward. I also like a sense of weight to sounds so I'm not interested in a thin sound to have detail. What drivers in which of your designs would you recommend?

First of all I would dump those woofers and get something else like a Scan-Speak Illuminator. The Dynaudios and their copies are mediocre at best. The larger mids are difficult to match to the 70-10 unless they have an extended and smooth top end response. That limits your choices.

[navin]

I was wondering on what driver recommendations you would have for a midrange to match with the RAAL 70-10D amorphous. It's a 3way modular design with dual 8" Dynaudio style polypropylene woofers in the bass cab. I'm looking for a 2way mid/tweet combo in a separate cab to mate with it. I'd like to keep the Xover point between the mid and woofers below 300Hz and even down to 200Hz or a bit less if possible(?). I've settled on the RAAL 70-10, unless you feel the extra cost of the 70-20 would be justified, and I don't mind spending some $ on the mid drivers so companies like ScanSpeak, AudioTechnology, Acoustic Elegance, etc, are not out of the price range. Even Accuton, except maybe for their most expensive units, would be acceptable as well. The sonic areas that I'm most interested in are resolution, dynamics, imaging/specificity, soundstage size (width and depth) without a presentation that's too forward. I also like a sense of weight to sounds so I'm not interested in a thin sound to have detail. What drivers in which of your designs would you recommend?

Have you got the 8" Dynaudio-like woofers already? If not I would go so far as to suggest a couple of dual 7-8" 3 ways that Rick already has like the Tempesta Extreme, Prestige, and the RC4 without subwoofer. If these do not meet your needs I am sure Rick could extrapolate these designs using a different woofer (or mid).

Every design is a set of compromises for example: The Audio Technology CQuenze 23cm woofer is a good woofer but really expensive for what it does. The Wavecor 8" (discused elsewhere on this section) or SEAS Prestige series L22 can go lower and louder but might not have the same articulation of say SEAS Excel 8".

I would suggest emailing Rick your requirement and application details and taking it from there. It worked for me even from 10,000 miles away.

[mykyll2727]

Rick, Thanks for the info. I take it then that would include the AT drivers as well. I think I read somewhere that the AT's were the grandaddy of the PP drivers with the vented dust caps. That Skaaning started it at AT and went on to start Dyna and SS and has still stuck at AT.

Isn't there a problem with the Illuminators as replacements though? I wasn't aware the there were any 8" or larger versions. That 6.5" is the max at this point in that line. If so would the Revelators be a good choice then? I've yet to hear bass from a speaker with 6.5" woofers that I could say I really liked. Not even the Paradigm's with 3 and 4 of them. But then again I haven't heard any with a pair of 6'5" Illums either.

[mykyll2727]

Navin, I was posting at the same time as you. Yes I have the 8" woofers and the cabinet. So I was looking to keep that and just add a another module with the mid and tweet. Unless I mistook what Rick was saying, it doesn't seem he feels that any of the Dyna style drivers are all that good. That would include the ATs. It's my understanding, and I could be wrong, that that's where it all started. I've looked at the the C-Quenze drivers and they are the same style PPs. And yes they are pricey.

[mykyll2727]

The Wavecor 8" (discused elsewhere on this section) or SEAS Prestige series L22 can go lower and louder but might not have the same articulation of say SEAS Excel 8".

I would suggest emailing Rick your requirement and application details and taking it from there. It worked for me even from 10,000 miles away.

Thanks! I'll do that. I appreciate the answers.

[navin]

Rick, Thanks for the info. I take it then that would include the AT drivers as well. I think I read somewhere that the AT's were the grandaddy of the PP drivers with the vented dust caps. That Skaaning started it at AT and went on to start Dyna and SS and has still stuck at AT.

But then again I haven't heard any with a pair of 6'5" Illums either.

From what I know Mr. Skanning founded both Dynaudio and Scan-Speak. I believe Vifa-Speak was an off shoot from Scan-Speak. AT was started after Skanning left Scan-Speak. BTW Dynaudio also licensed their Hexa-Tech coil technology to Morel (Morel is another complicated story).

Wavecor's CEO is also ex-Scan-Speak. In some indirect way Skanning influenced much of modern Danish transducer design.

The 7" Illuminator woofers from Scan-Speak are quite good.

[Rick Craig]

Rick, Thanks for the info. I take it then that would include the AT drivers as well. I think I read somewhere that the AT's were the grandaddy of the PP drivers with the vented dust caps. That Skaaning started it at AT and went on to start Dyna and SS and has still stuck at AT.

Isn't there a problem with the Illuminators as replacements though? I wasn't aware the there were any 8" or larger versions. That 6.5" is the max at this point in that line. If so would the Revelators be a good choice then? I've yet to hear bass from a speaker with 6.5" woofers that I could say I really liked. Not even the Paradigm's with 3 and 4 of them. But then again I haven't heard any with a pair of 6'5" Illums either.

I would take the 7" Illuminator over many 8" woofers. Yes, the AT drivers are derivative of Dynaudio but the underhung motor is better. Same basic cone technology though and in that area I think they are behind the times. The 7" AT is limited by its' suspension and motor compared to the Illuminator. I suspect the same holds true for the 8". The 8" Revelator (aluminum cone) would be one to consider.

[mykyll2727]

You're probably right about Skaaning. It was IIRC that I read somewhere that he started AT in like 1969 and then started SS in 1970 and Dyna in like 1977. But I guess it really doesn't matter. Indeed he seems to be a driving force in Danish driver design. He and his son own AT and their C-Quenze drivers are the PP vented cap design like Dyna became famous for. They do make a sandwich cone woofer driver now too.

[mykyll2727]

I would take the 7" Illuminator over many 8" woofers. Yes, the AT drivers are derivative of Dynaudio but the underhung motor is better. Same basic cone technology though and in that area I think they are behind the times. The 7" AT is limited by its' suspension and motor compared to the Illuminator. I suspect the same holds true for the 8". The 8" Revelator (aluminum cone) would be one to consider.

I see. That PP driver style sure has been around for awhile. Do you feel the aluminum cones are better than the paper? If so in what way? Another nice thing about the SS's they are less expensive than the ATs size for size.

[Rick Craig]

I see. Do you feel the aluminum cones are better than the paper? If so in what way?

In the lower frequencies I think a stiffer cone has an advantage; however, there are some paper cones that do well by virtue of adding Kevlar, coatings,etc

[mykyll2727]

In the lower frequencies I think a stiffer cone has an advantage; however, there are some paper cones that do well by virtue of adding Kevlar, coatings,etc

Very good. I certainly trust in your judgement. I've also pondered the thought, if my original idea just wasn't practical enough, to just go on and have a speaker made from the ground up. I haven't the maens to DIY it and there are physical reasons, arthritis and age, that I want to have a modular design. I'll give it some thought and if it would be acceptable to you email you my ideas and go from there.

[Rick Craig]

Very good. I certainly trust in your judgement. I've also pondered the thought, if my original idea just wasn't practical enough, to just go on and have a speaker made from the ground up. I haven't the maens to DIY it and there are physical reasons, arthritis and age, that I want to have a modular design. I'll give it some thought and if it would be acceptable to you email you my ideas and go from there.

Sure - no problem.

[jimbones]

First of all I would dump those woofers and get something else like a Scan-Speak Illuminator. The Dynaudios and their copies are mediocre at best. The larger mids are difficult to match to the 70-10 unless they have an extended and smooth top end response. That limits your choices.

I would agree with Rick that the Scan Speaks are better, especially since you want to match the quality of the RAAL(which I am told is exceptional). However, I would not say that the Dynaudio's are bad as some are telling you. They are quite good when used with a decent dome, just not in the same league as the RAAL/SS.

I built a speaker using Dynaudio 17W75 as a mid and a SB acoustics 29 tweeter. I felt they were in the same quality level and against a lot of people  recommending against using the Dynaudios they sound very very good. Go figure.

[mykyll2727]

I would agree with Rick that the Scan Speaks are better, especially since you want to match the quality of the RAAL(which I am told is exceptional). However, I would not say that the Dynaudio's are bad as some are telling you. They are quite good when used with a decent dome, just not in the same league as the RAAL/SS.

I built a speaker using Dynaudio 17W75 as a mid and a SB acoustics 29 tweeter. I felt they were in the same quality level and against a lot of people  recommending against using the Dynaudios they sound very very good. Go figure.

Thanks for the response. I definitely want to use the Raal so it seems that the SS would be a better choice. Unfortunately it seems that I'll need to upgrade the woofers too. A little expensive right now but at least I know my direction.

[navin]

I definitely want to use the Raal so it seems that the SS would be a better choice. Unfortunately it seems that I'll need to upgrade the woofers too. A little expensive right now but at least I know my direction.

Maybe a Circondare?

That reminds me. I owe you some photos on my build thread in the Lab. Will get to these tomorrow or Monday.

[mykyll2727]

Maybe a Circondare?

That reminds me. I owe you some photos on my build thread in the Lab. Will get to these tomorrow or Monday.

That could definitely be a way to go. Love those pics!!!

[navin]

Thanks for the response. I definitely want to use the Raal so it seems that the SS would be a better choice. Unfortunately it seems that I'll need to upgrade the woofers too. A little expensive right now but at least I know my direction.

Just realised after my last post that Rick has many designs using the RAAL. From the MA1 to the Tempesta. Have you seen Selah's gallery here?
http://www.selahaudio.com/id274.html
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=299;image_page=19

If dual 7" don't give you the SPL you desire then something like the MA1 could be "upgraded/modified" to use 8" woofers.

[mykyll2727]

Just realised after my last post that Rick has many designs using the RAAL. From the MA1 to the Tempesta. Have you seen Selah's gallery here?
http://www.selahaudio.com/id274.html
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=299;image_page=19

If dual 7" don't give you the SPL you desire then something like the MA1 could be "upgraded/modified" to use 8" woofers.

Excellent!Thanks for the advice.

[navin]

Excellent!Thanks for the advice.

Welcome. The way I look at this is...
With a 3 way the woofer can either cover a range of say 40-700Hz (approx) and articulate well with limited SPL and cover 30-700Hz and give you 3-6db more SPL especially in the lower registers but at the cost of a slight loss in detail. Remember this is relative and companies like SEAS, ScanSpeak, Wavecor, etc produce good drivers - better than those found in many commercial speakers (in the same price range).

In value terms I would put a speaker like Selah's Peridot-Excel (being built by me) in the same league as say Jeff Joesph's Pearl. Similar driver complement. jeff's cabinetry is about as good and i dont believe Jeff makes a poor crossover either. I don't know what the price difference between a finished Peridot-Excel and Pearl would be in the US though.

As far as low end extension goes, maybe you could add a small subwoofer (or 2) like the SEAS L26ROY. It only needs about 1 cu. ft. So a 15" cube would work.

Oh and if I have confused you even further I suggest you email Rick. He has the antidote.