The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!

db audio labs · « **Reply #440 on:** 7 Sep 2010, 04:27 pm »

Ed to answer your question -

Removing computer processes from the computer equation typically results in sonic improvements for sure. But the computer's layout, parts and overall construction are arguably much more important regarding the "cause and effect" to sound quality differentiation between computers. For example: If you have an older Mac Mini and do all sorts of various tweaks such as removing many of the program loads, add an SSD internal drive, add more memory and even add a custom outboard power supply. That solution will actually LOSE sonically in a head/head comparison to just a basic 2010 Mac Mini computer, without those added tweaks

What this seems to indicate is that careful spectral distribution of noise patterns and internal power supply layouts along with the internal shielding and lower noise parts are the top ticket to getting the absolute performance in the sonic domain. We strongly suspect that goal of low power consumption and bus speed improvements in the latest 2010 Mac Mini gave us these sonic merits. As Bill Hobba pointed out in his post - Apple's decision to mil the Mini's enclosure from a solid block of Aluminum certainly didn't hurt regarding the shielding capabilities of the latest Mac Mini design

So, what does this say regarding building a Linux solution that is above the 2010 Mac Mini? If you can emulate the 2010 Mini's latest power supply spectral distribution and the internal faraday shielding and the internal noise reduction of it's various ultra low power / noise components and the buss layouts and the USB connectivity layouts and the enclosure itself and subtract some program loads due to the Linux then you might possibly have a solution that is slightly superior to the 2010 Mac Mini...perhaps.

Cheers

Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs

ebag4 · « **Reply #441 on:** 7 Sep 2010, 04:35 pm »

Eric/Bill,
Thank you for your responses, much appreciated.

Best,
Ed

Bigfish · « **Reply #442 on:** 7 Sep 2010, 07:36 pm »

I made my MacMini/Tranquility decision prior to Apple introducing the new Mini. My old Mini is tweaked-out to the max with the new Bolder external power supply and every single tweak I made added sonically to the performance. If a stock 2010 Mini is superior to my unit I wonder how much better it would be tweaked-out? Sounds like the making of a good shoot-out???

Ken

bhobba · « **Reply #443 on:** 8 Sep 2010, 12:34 pm »

Hi All

Just got back from an initial checkout of the Tranquility. This was simply using a windows notebook to get a quick initial impression.

Ok some quick impressions - Dianna Krall - excellent - fluid, dynamic, musical and no trace of digital 'glare' or upper midrange issues I had with another DAC. The output stage does not sound like a solid state. Tom Jones Praise and Blame - it sounded very very good - you could almost believe Tom Jones was there with you. Without any comparison to other DAC's it sounded excellent.

It will be down at the guy whose reference system I checked it out on for at least the next few days while I contact Eric Hider to get my Mac Mini set up optimally for this DAC. The owner of the reference system, Mike, will continue to use it and come to grips with its sound. We will then arrange a listening session between Mike, Clay Geisler a DAC designer acquaintance, and myself to seriously evaluate the Tranquility and a new DAC Clay is working on - the PDX. Will keep you guys posted.

Thanks
Bill

dBe · « **Reply #444 on:** 8 Sep 2010, 03:28 pm »

Quote from: Bigfish on 7 Sep 2010, 07:36 pm

If a stock 2010 Mini is superior to my unit I wonder how much better it would be tweaked-out? Sounds like the making of a good shoot-out???

Ken

The answer is that it is beyond stunning! The stock 2010 Mini is better than a tweaked prior configuration and a fully tweaked 2010 is amazing.

I spent more than a couple of hours last night listening to some different configurations of my friend Darrell McCombs' system. We were trying some new things that I have coming as well as some footers being made by another local audio company - An Audible Difference. While we had success on multiple levels, the obvious stand outs of the evening were the Tranquility DAC through Darrell's tweaked 2010 Mini. He and another friend, Kevin Burke, have come up with series of mods that transform the Mini to a sonic marvel. Kevin does the physical modifications to the Mini and Darrell has created a new software configuration (well beyond everything I have seen in print) and written scripts for the Mini to hit the sonics that I heard last night. Kicks the old Minis' ass, BIG TIME.

I am pretty much computer stoopid anyway, but from what I understand the software end of the tweaks is not for the faint of (experienced) heart. I am encouraging these guys to offer modification services for the new Mini. I know that the purpose built stripped XP Zotac ION based PC that I built (running the excellent AQvox ASIO driver) is to be replaced very soon by a Burke/McCombs MacMini. I have struggled to get my PC sounding good, but it doesn't hold a candle to the full blown 2010 B/McC Mini.

Dammit! Crow for breakfast again... oh, well.

Dave

jrebman · « **Reply #445 on:** 8 Sep 2010, 03:47 pm »

So, does anybody have any bright ideas on how a headless mini may be used with a Windows laptop as a client to control playback, playlists, etc.?

Thanks,

Jim

dmccombs · « **Reply #446 on:** 8 Sep 2010, 03:59 pm »

Quote from: dBe on 8 Sep 2010, 03:28 pm

The answer is that it is beyond stunning! The stock 2010 Mini is better than a tweaked prior configuration and a fully tweaked 2010 is amazing.

I spent more than a couple of hours last night listening to some different configurations of my friend Darrell McCombs' system. We were trying some new things that I have coming as well as some footers being made by another local audio company - An Audible Difference. While we had success on multiple levels, the obvious stand outs of the evening were the Tranquility DAC through Darrell's tweaked 2010 Mini. He and another friend, Kevin Burke, have come up with series of mods that transform the Mini to a sonic marvel. Kevin does the physical modifications to the Mini and Darrell has created a new software configuration (well beyond everything I have seen in print) and written scripts for the Mini to hit the sonics that I heard last night. Kicks the old Minis' ass, BIG TIME.

I am pretty much computer stoopid anyway, but from what I understand the software end of the tweaks is not for the faint of (experienced) heart. I am encouraging these guys to offer modification services for the new Mini. I know that the purpose built stripped XP Zotac ION based PC that I built (running the excellent AQvox ASIO driver) is to be replaced very soon by a Burke/McCombs MacMini. I have struggled to get my PC sounding good, but it doesn't hold a candle to the full blown 2010 B/McC Mini.

Dammit! Crow for breakfast again... oh, well.

Dave

Dave,

You are too kind... But I have to admit, the MacMini, with the right software and hardware mods blows the stock MacMini away, and the stock MacMini is terrific.

The Tranquility DAC is fantastic as well. Together, they make an incredible sounding front end at great price.

Darrell

dmccombs · « **Reply #447 on:** 8 Sep 2010, 04:00 pm »

Quote from: jrebman on 8 Sep 2010, 03:47 pm

So, does anybody have any bright ideas on how a headless mini may be used with a Windows laptop as a client to control playback, playlists, etc.?

Thanks,

Jim

Jim

Setup Sharing on the Mac and run a VNC client on the Windows laptop. RealVNC is a good VNC client.

Darrell

kenreau · « **Reply #448 on:** 8 Sep 2010, 04:33 pm »

I have been reading these recent threads with a great deal of interest. I recently jumped into the mac mini music server platform and am in the market for a new DAC to mate with it. I was headed down the Firewire Weiss/Metric Halo DAC path until discovering this Tranquility component review topic.

I am looking for confirmation that the new 2010 Mac Mini is objectively, black and white, significantly better than an optimized 2009 Mac Mini?

I think Ken/Bigfish and I have the exact same mac mini configuration and before I make another upgrade/change, I wish to confirm it is a certain, tangible improvement.

It is just intuitive to me (and I think many others) that the new 2010 mac mini model with on board power supply, detuned power consumption, et al would be a step in the wrong direction for an ideal audiophile/optimized computer platform.

Thanks
Kenreau

Quote from Eric
...If you have an older Mac Mini and do all sorts of various tweaks such as removing many of the program loads, add an SSD internal drive, add more memory and even add a custom outboard power supply. That solution will actually LOSE sonically in a head/head comparison to just a basic 2010 Mac Mini computer, without those added tweaks

Quote from dBe;
...The answer is that it is beyond stunning! The stock 2010 Mini is better than a tweaked prior configuration and a fully tweaked 2010 is amazing.

He and another friend, Kevin Burke, have come up with series of mods that transform the Mini to a sonic marvel. Kevin does the physical modifications to the Mini and Darrell has created a new software configuration (well beyond everything I have seen in print) and written scripts for the Mini to hit the sonics that I heard last night. Kicks the old Minis' ass, BIG TIME.

jrebman · « **Reply #449 on:** 8 Sep 2010, 04:42 pm »

Darrel,

Thanks, I'll have to look into that and make sure Real VNC will work with my screen reader software.

Thanks,

Jim

dBe · « **Reply #450 on:** 8 Sep 2010, 05:36 pm »

Quote from: kenreau on 8 Sep 2010, 04:33 pm

It is just intuitive to me (and I think many others) that the new 2010 mac mini model with on board power supply, detuned power consumption, et al would be a step in the wrong direction for an ideal audiophile/optimized computer platform.

Thanks
Kenreau

Kenreau. I get it. I'm there with you. What you say is logical. It is totally intuitive that an onboard power supply is a step in the wrong direction - that is until you hear the new 2010 Mini. What they have done with the new Mini defies logic. It is a proverbial blivit: 10 pounds of s__t in a 2 pound bag. There is NO WAY that they can put all of that performance in that small of a package, but they have done it. That part I do not get.

All I can say is until you hear a fully optimized SSD equipped 2010 Mini compared to a fully optimized SSD equipped former generation Mini, you are completely entitled to your intuition and beliefs. Wrong, but entitled. I didn't believe it, either. That is what I mean about eating crow.

Dave

bhobba · « **Reply #451 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 08:15 am »

Further to my previous post about my initial impressions of the Tranquility; the guy whose reference system we tried it out on did some further investigation when I left and this is what he posted in an unrelated thread on another forum (it was about a DAC shootout we were at):

Bill had a normal Laptop and I think he was using I River (it was J River) software. First impressions were ! well a little underwhelming. Nice and smooth to be sure , top end seemed a little down to me and the bass was Ahh lazy ! It did nothing wrong but it did nothing right either ! the ConnorNM24 (thats the systems reference DAC - a heavily tweaked and synergised pcm1704 dac) killed it in my view. OK so bill leaves and I thought I’d just drop my Compaq laptop on and feed it some of my wav files from I tunes. HOLY SMOKE what just happened, It was instantly competitive with the NM24. This little alloy brick thingy must be very sensitive to what USB signal it’s fed. More on this device soon when we feed it with a Mac mini ( as recommended by Eric Hider ) It did however trail behind the NM24 overall and particularly in the bass , being still a touch inarticulate and rounded. Resolution was very good with no hardness or detectable digititis evident Perhaps with MacMini integration we could have a real competitor. Although Mr Hider has’nt stated what DAC is being used it sounds very 1704 ish to me.

What is happening now is I will be investigating optimizing my Mac Mini and see exactly how close we can get it to the systems reference DAC - or maybe even exceed it. Watch this space.

Thanks
Bill

db audio labs · « **Reply #452 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 02:08 pm »

Hi guys,

I've been asked if I am still offering my special discount to AC members. The answer is yes! Your $200.00 discount on a Tranquility is still in effect. Thanks again to everyone here for all of your wonderful support. I look forward to meeting many members who are going to be at the upcoming RMAF show.

Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs

mamba315 · « **Reply #453 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 08:28 pm »

Quote from: kenreau on 8 Sep 2010, 04:33 pm

I am looking for confirmation that the new 2010 Mac Mini is objectively, black and white, significantly better than an optimized 2009 Mac Mini?

I'm wondering the same thing, since I own the Late 2009 Mac Mini.

I think it would help if Eric, dBe, and anyone else with 2010 experiences share exactly which past Mini model they've done comparisons with (and how both models were modded). I was under the impression that the 2009's sounded better than earlier models too. So, are these 2010 being compared to the 09's, or to older Mini's?

As usual, Wikipedia has great info with all the Mac Mini release specs over the years. This is a good place to find out which Mini you have if you don't remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini

dmccombs · « **Reply #454 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 08:56 pm »

Quote from: mamba315 on 10 Sep 2010, 08:28 pm

I'm wondering the same thing, since I own the Late 2009 Mac Mini.

I think it would help if Eric, dBe, and anyone else with 2010 experiences share exactly which past Mini model they've done comparisons with (and how both models were modded). I was under the impression that the 2009's sounded better than earlier models too. So, are these 2010 being compared to the 09's, or to older Mini's?

As usual, Wikipedia has great info with all the Mac Mini release specs over the years. This is a good place to find out which Mini you have if you don't remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini

Mamba,

A friend had an Early 2009 MacMini, Intel 40GB SSD, 4GB Ram, Play.app
I then bought a Mid-2010 MacMini, Intel 40GB SSD, 4GB Ram, Play.app

We played the exact same rips (.flac at the time) off of the same external hard drive. The 2010 was much cleaner, had a quieter noise floor, better soundstage, etc.

My friend ended up selling me his Early 2009 model and he bought the Mid-2010 model. I now use the 2009 Mini to host my web sites and do some Web Development. It cost him ~$300 to make the upgrade, but he is glad he did. He says it was a no-brainer.

Darrell

mamba315 · « **Reply #455 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 09:22 pm »

Quote from: dmccombs on 10 Sep 2010, 08:56 pm

Mamba,

A friend had an Early 2009 MacMini, Intel 40GB SSD, 4GB Ram, Play.app

Thanks Darrell

Do you know if the Early 2009 was running Snow Leopard (10.6.x), or the 10.5 that it came with?

dmccombs · « **Reply #456 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 09:28 pm »

Mamba,

Both had 10.6.4 with the latest updates installed.

Darrell

denjo · « **Reply #457 on:** 11 Sep 2010, 12:56 am »

It seems that Eric Hider will be releasing a non-USB Tranquility DAC (With SPDIF) in the near future!

navi · « **Reply #458 on:** 11 Sep 2010, 12:07 pm »

Quote from: newzooreview on 20 Jul 2010, 09:17 pm

"Turn your journaling off -
Open "Disk Utility" (located in Applications/Utilities).
Highlight the name Macintosh HD on the left side of choices
To disable journaling, press Option key on keyboard, WHILE HOLDING ON TO the OPTION key - select disable journaling from the top of your screen on the file menu."

I tried this on a 2.66 Quad MAC Pro and the computer kept crashing.

I.

newzooreview · « **Reply #459 on:** 11 Sep 2010, 04:00 pm »

Quote from: navi on 11 Sep 2010, 12:07 pm

I tried this on a 2.66 Quad MAC Pro and the computer kept crashing.

Are you using the Mac Pro as a dedicated music server with a fresh installation of the current operating system? With the monitor and keyboard removed, and no third-party software running?

I ask because a Mac Pro is pretty expensive to dedicate as a music server, but if the computer isn't dedicated to the task then there are likely multiple background processes running that will degrade the audio, making the tweaks less relevant.

I don't know why the computer would crash when you turn journaling off. I'm not even sure that it's crashing when you switch it off or at some point afterward. How reproducible is it?

If the Mac Pro is a dedicated music server, I would sell it and get a new Mac Mini. If the Mac Pro is not dedicated as a music server I wouldn't worry about the tweaks that Eric suggested since there are probably a lot of other things that could degrade the sound and the tweaks may not make a major difference.