[ChrisM]

Hey Eric, i was wondering if your still offering the discount for AC members???

[roscoeiii]

Hi Eric,

Many thanks for that clarification. For those of us not using a computer as a transport, any update on the SPDIF implementation (or maybe an I2S???)? Or something with multiple input options? Don't get me wrong, I greatly admire your devotion to highest quality reproduction in your products. Maybe I need to factor in the cost of a Mac Mini when thinking about taking the plunge for a Tranquility...

And many thanks for mentioning your efforts with the Sabre DAC. I hope that at some point I am able to compare some of the highly praised Sabre implementations with DACs such as yours and the AVA Vision.

Exciting times to be in the market for a DAC to be sure...

[db audio labs]

To answer your questions:

Chris;

- Yes, we still offer the $200 off discount to all Audio Circle members. You guys have really supported our efforts and we seriously appreciate it!

Roscoeiii;

- Our next dac is still in the development stages. I can't put an actual firm timeline on the release date yet as we are working our R&D tails off to emulate the Tranquility's performance. This is not as easy as it sounds (no pun intended) as the cost of parts for a world class SPDIF solution that sounds as good will be more. Ever wondered why we started our digital offerings with a computer connected dac? Now you know.

- As far as an I2S connection scheme, the inherent impedance matching and noise can get really complicated, really fast, with cables lengths at a short 12 inches. The best news here is that we are confident that we can achieve just as heroic sonic results with other more common connection schemes.

- Lastly, I know that some audiophiles may have not considered the cost factor of having to buy a Mac Mini to create a statement source. But, at $599, it's a serious bargain in many audiophile's minds. Great OS functionality, no viruses to worry about, no defrag and it looks GREAT sitting next to your other audiophile components on your audio rack! You get the cool remote control functionality to control your Mac too...aka ITouch, iPhone remote capability. IMHO the iPad used in conjunction with your Mac may just be the coolest audiophile remote control to ever come to our listening rooms 


Cheers,

Eric

[roscoeiii]

Many thanks for the prompt reply. A very exciting DAC. TIme to explore Mac Mini options perhaps.

-Roscoe

[pixy]

Hi Eric,

I am excited about Tranquility dac and looking forward to audition. Based on your posts you were bias towards mac mini and iTune as a source. Is there any specific sonic advantages over other options such as Linux or Windows and foobar. 

I have embedded device which runs linux os and  has USB. I want to use this device as source. Will it sonically different form using mac mini with iTunes?

[laserboi]

Well, I received my dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC yesterday and it has been burning in ever since.  Early impressions include:  .  I'll post a slightly more detailed review when I get back from my trip to Vegas this coming week.   

P.S.  I'm also using the dB Labs usb cable.

Regards,

Pete

[bhobba]

I read this thread simply for something to do one day.  But after reading it I must say I am impressed.

I am not the type of guy who likes the typical audiophile stuff such as the this amplifier give you a view like in the front row seat rather than at the back and it has a slight midrange emphasis - you know the typical audiophile spiel.  I am more of a hard nosed tech type.  I like when a product is designed using listening tests but that it is also based on hard nosed engineering as well.  Well for me this product seems to have that engineering stuff in spades.

I do have a question though.  I see it is recommended an apple mini be used.  I am not an apple type of guy - I prefer the windows stuff.  On reason is apple Itunes does not support musepack which I use and believe is streets ahead of any other compression technology.  Also the computer store I deal with and have built up trust in does not deal in apple.  I can get cheaper computer gear elsewhere but although sometimes I think I will ditch them because of that I keep coming back to the good service they give me.  I also prefer widows machines because you can get them standard with SSD drives that are quieter and make the machine boot faster.  No defrag to worry about with them either.  But aside for that I just feel more comfortable with the Windows stuff.  The question is - it is really of that great an importance to use apple gear or can I stick with windows?  I am scratching my head a bit for a technical point of view why it would make any difference at all.

Anyway mighty impressed with this product an will think very carefully about getting one down the track.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Hi Eric,

I am excited about Tranquility dac and looking forward to audition. Based on your posts you were bias towards mac mini and iTune as a source. Is there any specific sonic advantages over other options such as Linux or Windows and foobar. 

I have embedded device which runs linux os and  has USB. I want to use this device as source. Will it sonically different form using mac mini with iTunes?

I did a post about this as well before I noticed yours.  I want to know as well.  For the life of me I cant see why.  I know the Steve Nugent who makes a competing product has no preference either way.  From what I can gather the main thing is to ensure it gives a bit perfect stream.  You can do that from a number of players like Jriver or Foobar.  I hope others can enlighten me.

Thanks
Bill

[db audio labs]

Hi Bill -

Boy, if it was only as easy creating a simple digital solution that provides a perfect bit stream. That's only the beginning to finding the real sonic magic. Our research has shown the digital is very fragile indeed. Music's delicate inner harmonics, lush high frequencies and heroic analog like sound staging can be easily truncated, smeared or lost altogether regardless if you have bit perfection. A good example that proves this point are the massive sonic differences with digital cables (on world class dacs mind you). These digital cables all provide the dac a "perfect bit stream", yet many can completely crush much of the sonic magic in their transfer of "perfect bits" as compared to the great sounding digital cables.

Now, let's segway into the better sounding computers such as the Mac Mini. There are a multitude of reasons why an Apple Mini could "sound better" than other PC solutions. Everything from the Mini's power supply on the power cord being connected a considerable distance from the Mini box (and the actual Intel processor inside) to the layout of the actual computer components that were possibly oriented in a lower noise configuration since the small physical size of the Mini itself would need more careful layout techniques of the various parts. So, it's starting to looks like the EMI and RF noise approximate to the Intel processor, within the computer itself could affect the overall sound of a typical desktop computer...negatively!

As far as a Windows based solution that can equal (or possibly surpass) an Mac Mini, it is possible in our minds. But, it's just anything from the norm with all the multitude of variants of the Microsoft based PC manufacturers and their various ever changing build methodologies. We suspect a top level computer guru, that knows all the "ins and outs" of building a custom PC, with a top flight motherboard, with top flight power supplies, low noise components throughout, and very careful analysis and custom configuration of the computer's Window programs. That may just get you to possibly match the sonic capability of a Mac Mini with a Windows based machine...perhaps...

Or you could just buy a Mini...no work or computer science classes needed


Cheers,

Eric - dB Audio Labs

[bhobba]

Hi Eric and others reading this fascinating thread

Or you could just buy a Mini...no work or computer science classes needed

I guess the problem is I have a degree in math and computer science so it is quite easy for me to get suckered into going down this sort of path.

Anyway I have been doing a lot of internet searching etc etc to get to the bottom of the issues I mentioned.  I have now been converted to the mac mini.  The only minor sticking point is I can't yet determine if it handles muspack files.  As a compressed format it is streets ahead of any other thing out there and it is really really hard at the extreme setting I use to tell it from the original.  Some guy had 45,000 tracks and really high end equipment and could only tell the difference on maybe 3-4 tracks and even then the difference was far from objectionable.  Indeed, and rather interestingly, in blind tests of high bit rate compressed audio the few guys that can tell the difference often gets it reversed - saying the compressed version is the uncompressed.  As a good friend of mine expressed it - it seems to get rid of 'crap'.  Although he cant tell the difference he feels it is in fact a bit clearer.  Anyway bottom line here is I would really want to keep muspack support.

I found some mac players that support musepac such as VLC.  Loaded the windows version on my windows machine.  Worked great on some songs but wouldn't play others.  The issue seems to be for some reason they nearly always have older codecs stored.  Actually a post I did on the squeezebox forum to see if the squeezbox supported - it (they don't fully support btw even though they say they do) found out the latest musepack codec - version 8 - has a different calling interface that would mean significant changes to software - something people don't want to do for a format that not many people actually use.  Such a pity of course because it really is a great format.  On the positive side however I get the felling sbooth play for the mac does support it and have registered on their forum to get the lowdown.  Keeping my fingers crossed on that one.  If it does it will pretty much seal the deal for me using a mac mini.

Well enough ranting about musepack.  One thing that interests me is I read where a 24/96 version is in development.  That would really interest me because I like the idea of using a players digital remote but don't want to suffer any bit loss in doing so.  The preamp I plan to get doesn't have a remote and I have bad arthritis so don't want to get up all the time to adjust volume.  Any updates on that would be really appreciated.

And last but not least I just want to ensure a 240v version is available of guys like me is Aus.

Thanks
Bill

[pardales]

I have had my Mac Mini in the mix now for a couple of weeks. It replaced a first generation Macbook Pro running Snow Leopard.

I must say that the differences are aduible. Probably the biggest thing I noticed was a much lower noise floor. Black background and all that. This, of course, makes everything sound better as you can hear greater detail and more layers to the music. I hope to discover more benefits as time goes on; suffice it to say that it is a better than my old laptop. I control it via screen sharing with a laptop and an iPod touch.

[truant]

I received Eric's tips for tweaking the Mac today and having followed his steps earlier this evening I must say I'm impressed with the results.  I wasn't expecting such dramatic improvement.  Thanks Eric.  Wow.

[jhm731]

I still don't understand why anyone would pay $1495. for a DAC that only does 16/44, only has a usb input, no remote, when the same money buys a Wyred 4 Sound balanced DAC-2 with:

Robust 35A Schottky bridge rectifiers (same as used in the STP-SE)
*88,000uF of filtering with Wyred 4 Sound low ESR "super-caps" (same as used in the STP-SE)
*upgraded VFD display for input, sample rate, volume control, and configuration viewing
*Remote controlled preamp capability
*Defeatable - 32 bit volume control
*HT Bypass inputs (selectable via DC trigger)
*1x AES/EBU input
*1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format)
*24-bit 192kHz Asynchronous USB input
* Proprietary drivers for 32/64 bit Windows XP, 7 and Mac OS 10.4, 10.5 ,10.6

[pardales]

I received Eric's tips for tweaking the Mac today and having followed his steps earlier this evening I must say I'm impressed with the results.  I wasn't expecting such dramatic improvement.  Thanks Eric.  Wow.

Agreed. Frankly I was stunned by what these last three alterations to the MINI did to improve the overall sound of my set-up.

[timztunz]

I still don't understand why anyone would pay $1495. for a DAC that only does 16/44, only has a usb input, no remote, when the same money buys a Wyred 4 Sound balanced DAC-2 with:

Robust 35A Schottky bridge rectifiers (same as used in the STP-SE)
*88,000uF of filtering with Wyred 4 Sound low ESR "super-caps" (same as used in the STP-SE)
*upgraded VFD display for input, sample rate, volume control, and configuration viewing
*Remote controlled preamp capability
*Defeatable - 32 bit volume control
*HT Bypass inputs (selectable via DC trigger)
*1x AES/EBU input
*1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format)
*24-bit 192kHz Asynchronous USB input
* Proprietary drivers for 32/64 bit Windows XP, 7 and Mac OS 10.4, 10.5 ,10.6

Have you even listened to either of the units you are citing?  Or does what it sounds like not enter into your decision making process?

[Big Red Machine]

Have you even listened to either of the units you are citing?  Or does what it sounds like not enter into your decision making process?

I believe he has a legitimate value prop question there.  At this point it is a $2000+- product if a Mac is required to make it sing.  Someone with a Windows machine, of which I have 5 in the house, who can use an existing SB and associated software with existing FLAC files and playlists and achieve similar results is scratching their heads.  It's not practical, from an investment in time and money, to have to purchase those other pieces (MAC and monitor adapters) of equipment and change your file system (iTunes or whatever it is) just to see if it sounds significantly better.  That, I believe, is creating a dilemma for some of us.

[chadh]

I believe he has a legitimate value prop question there.  At this point it is a $2000+- product if a Mac is required to make it sing.  Someone with a Windows machine, of which I have 5 in the house, who can use an existing SB and associated software with existing FLAC files and playlists and achieve similar results is scratching their heads.  It's not practical, from an investment in time and money, to have to purchase those other pieces (MAC and monitor adapters) of equipment and change your file system (iTunes or whatever it is) just to see if it sounds significantly better.  That, I believe, is creating a dilemma for some of us.

Pete,

That makes it sound as though these "tweaks" available to upgrade the sound detract from the value of the proposition.  Perhaps it would be more useful to take the following attitude:  as an AC member, one can buy a Tranquility DAC for $1300, download Foobar for free, use some sort of ASIO driver and employ any old USB cable.  Your music may or may not sound better than through the SB or the WFS DAC - only you can tell.  The upgraded USB cable, the Mac Mini, an upgraded power cord, a whole new approach to power filtration, a custom platform, magical stones or a velour smoking jacket for the DAC can be purchased afterwards to enhance the sound as you desire.

You don't HAVE to buy into all the tweaking crap to enjoy a product. 

And if you're really interested in how it sounds (without a Mac Mini - mine is a windows household as well), you can always borrow mine for a weekend.

Chad

[timztunz]

I believe he has a legitimate value prop question there.  At this point it is a $2000+- product if a Mac is required to make it sing.  Someone with a Windows machine, of which I have 5 in the house, who can use an existing SB and associated software with existing FLAC files and playlists and achieve similar results is scratching their heads.  It's not practical, from an investment in time and money, to have to purchase those other pieces (MAC and monitor adapters) of equipment and change your file system (iTunes or whatever it is) just to see if it sounds significantly better.  That, I believe, is creating a dilemma for some of us.

With all due respect I think we're talking about two different things.
1) The value of the Tranquility compared to the value of other DAC's.
2) The question of which computer system produces better sounding music, Mac (in this case a Mac Mini) or PC.

Regarding #1 - I don't think it's very fair to make ANY claim about it, good or bad, without ever even hearing it.

Regarding #2 - I don't think the claim has ever been made that the ONLY way to get excellent sound quality from this DAC is with a Mac Mini.  It has been suggested however, that to get the BEST sound one should use a Mac Mini vs. a PC.  But I have seen that claim made from both camps regardless of which DAC is being used.

From my own personal experience, I have used this DAC with a dedicated PC and never once thought, "Jeepers, this sounds like crap.  I need to get a Mac."  Much to the contrary, a PC is what was used through the process of my discovering what an excellent product the Tranquility is in the first place.  It was only "suggested" to me that a Mac Mini would give me even better sound for a number of reasons that have everything to do with computing issues and nothing to do with the DAC itself.  Computer audio is a new thing for me and I want it to sound the best it can within the parameters of what I can afford.  It was important enough for me to try the Mac Mini, the first Mac for me too in a house full of PC's.  Now that I've lived with the Mac Mini in my system for awhile it is my opinion that it DOES sound better than the PC rig i was using.  But even at that I never did think the PC sounded BAD.  I just think this sounds better.  But that has nothing to do with the DAC.

Just my 2 cents.

[pardales]

With all due respect I think we're talking about two different things.
1) The value of the Tranquility compared to the value of other DAC's.
2) The question of which computer system produces better sounding music, Mac (in this case a Mac Mini) or PC.

Regarding #1 - I don't think it's very fair to make ANY claim about it, good or bad, without ever even hearing it.

Regarding #2 - I don't think the claim has ever been made that the ONLY way to get excellent sound quality from this DAC is with a Mac Mini.  It has been suggested however, that to get the BEST sound one should use a Mac Mini vs. a PC.  But I have seen that claim made from both camps regardless of which DAC is being used.

From my own personal experience, I have used this DAC with a dedicated PC and never once thought, "Jeepers, this sounds like crap.  I need to get a Mac."  Much to the contrary, a PC is what was used through the process of my discovering what an excellent product the Tranquility is in the first place.  It was only "suggested" to me that a Mac Mini would give me even better sound for a number of reasons that have everything to do with computing issues and nothing to do with the DAC itself.  Computer audio is a new thing for me and I want it to sound the best it can within the parameters of what I can afford.  It was important enough for me to try the Mac Mini, the first Mac for me too in a house full of PC's.  Now that I've lived with the Mac Mini in my system for awhile it is my opinion that it DOES sound better than the PC rig i was using.  But even at that I never did think the PC sounded BAD.  I just think this sounds better.  But that has nothing to do with the DAC.

Just my 2 cents.

Nicely stated. I have always been a MAC user, and so, getting a MINI was no big deal. If I had a house full of PC's I would think twice about converting to MAC, but that should not stop someone from giving this DAC a try. Value is as much a matter of perception as anything else in this hobby. Some people think their 10K amp, which takes them to audio heaven, is a bargain.

[Danny Richie]

timztunz nailed the whole thing.

I have been a PC guy for years too and the Mac Mini that I purchased was a first for me. The cool thing was that I sold my CEC transport for $450 and bought the Mac Mini with cordless mouse and key board for $425. Talk about stepping up in performance...