The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!

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Occam

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #180 on: 23 Jan 2010, 06:01 pm »
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#1 - Power cords and the Tranquility's sensitivity to different variants - The engineering staff at dB Audio Labs agonized long and hard over the question of the power cord sensitivity with the Tranquility design. Generally speaking, we appreciate excellent power cord technology. However, this comes at a cost - a substantial cost.  So, to turn the phrase a bit, the staff pondered, "Does it make sense to build a DAC the retails for $1495 that requires a power that costs more than double that to sound its best?" Ultimately, the staff decided that this made little, if any sense! The question then became, how to design and optimize the Tranquility to work with lesser power cords without sacrificing the sonics or, said another way, how to desensitize the Tranquility to differences between power cords. Could it be done? The answer is 'Yes!". First, the secondary of the power transformer is damped such that the switch-off of the diodes in the bridge subsequent the power transformer does not resonate with the inductance of its secondary. There is commonly a resonant tank circuit found here with what appears to be a typical bridge rectifier. We also managed to optimize without the use "hexfreds", "Cree diodes", or the like as it would actually degrade the performance. This is about cost and value to the consumer - not about boutique parts in and of themselves. Having taken care of the backward path, the forward path was considered. Here a similarly damped common mode choke is used and these devices, when properly employed, are excellent at taking care of or riding oneself of typical line born noise. Third, having chosen the forgoing, a CLRC or capacitor-choke-resistor-capacitor filter is realized. This further lessens the burden of subsequent voltage regulators and their, in turn, sensitivity of variations in power cords.  Moreover, they work more on a fundamental sinusoidal basis rather than on overtones/noise when their inherent impedance is less effective. From there, the Tranquility uses no less than three separate regulators! - two which are surface mount and one of which is discrete - for the output stages and current-to-voltage converters and dac chip.  (Yes, the engineering staff listened to all of the well regarded thru-hole regulators in addition to the surface mount regulators to make sure which was best!) Further, each manufacturer or brand of the selected regulator was also auditioned before arriving at those selected. Even a few other things, but we've got to still keep some of our design secrets to ourselves. In a nutshell, the totality of our tuning and proprietary optimizations greatly reduces the sensitivity to variations in power cords.
......
Cheers!

Eric H

Eric,

Your efforts to optimize your power supply are certainly laudable, and no doubt, quite successful. Nevertheless, I don't follow the logic (other than 'assuming the consequent') of your assertion that these efforts minimize the benefits of different power cords. I could certain see where you might argue that you efforts minimize/eliminate the need for power conditioning, as you're incorporated such within your component, where, ideally it belongs, tuned and optimized to the specific power requirements of the component.
The anecdote of the dac sounding better without the intermediation of a PS Audio Quartet might be more a confirmation of the importance of the cord feeding a conditioner, or the fact that in many systems, the nickel plated PowerPort receptacles within the Quartet aren't appropriate for higher resolution components.

While my CAT SL-1 preamp, with its herculean, sophisticated ps doesn't get along with any added power conditioning, it still benefits substantially from the proper choice of power cords.

Your assertion that your ps efforts obviate the benefits of bespoke power cords might well be valid, and I'm looking forward to further feedback. Given the size of the NYC Rave membership, hopefully someone will be bringing one to a Rave.

Regards,
Paul

DaveC113

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Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #181 on: 23 Jan 2010, 07:40 pm »
I don't follow the logic (other than 'assuming the consequent') of your assertion that these efforts minimize the benefits of different power cords.


There's 4' of high-end power cord with optimum geometry for the DAC coiled in the base of the chassis under a piece of sheet metal.  :wink:

trianglezerius

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #182 on: 23 Jan 2010, 09:05 pm »

There's 4' of high-end power cord with optimum geometry for the DAC coiled in the base of the chassis under a piece of sheet metal.  :wink:

Are we talking about the same DAC, DaveC113? Because the Tranquility I have has the IEC mounted directly and connected to the pcb board.

doug s.

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Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #183 on: 23 Jan 2010, 09:07 pm »
Are we talking about the same DAC, DaveC113? Because the Tranquility I have has the IEC mounted directly and connected to the pcb board.
i think dave is making a funny...   8)

doug s.

angelo

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #184 on: 23 Jan 2010, 09:55 pm »
i think it's impolite getting it naked and not sharing the pics with others ;)

Are we talking about the same DAC, DaveC113? Because the Tranquility I have has the IEC mounted directly and connected to the pcb board.

newzooreview

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #185 on: 23 Jan 2010, 11:15 pm »

The anecdote of the dac sounding better without the intermediation of a PS Audio Quartet might be more a confirmation of the importance of the cord feeding a conditioner, or the fact that in many systems, the nickel plated PowerPort receptacles within the Quartet aren't appropriate for higher resolution components.


I'm the source of the report on the improved sound when I got rid of the PS Audio Quartet (Duet actually, probably my mistake in the earlier post). I actually got rid of two things at once: the VH Audio Flavor 1 power cord and the PS Audio Duet.

The Tranquility is now plugged in via a stock cord (Volex 17604 http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=93K2606&CMP=AFC-GB100000001) that connects to the wall outlet via a drug store lamp cord (three-pronged grounded--looks like 14 AWG on each line +/-/n).

I don't know that the nickel-plated receptacles in the Duet would explain the improvement in sound since the Volex cord looks like it has nickel-plated prongs as well.

One thing I hadn't tried was swapping the VH Audio Flavor 1 in for the Volex cable connected directly to the extension (that is plugged directly into the wall outlet). So, I just tried that. Whoa. The VH Audio cable took everything down a notch. I lost openness, accuracy of timbre, and gained some grunge and congestion. Not horrible, but a noticeable downgrade.

So, the Tranquility was not happy with the VH Audio, independent of the PS Audio Duet.

I finished off the test of each change in isolation by plugging the Volex into the Duet. The difference was not as immediately objectionable, but still a bump down in sound quality. The separation between voices and the clarity of tonal differences were slightly off, and everything sounded smoothed over. Maybe to Duet was filtering out some noise in the A/C but the smoothness also seemed to muddy things. Back to the Volex connected to the extension cord and everything is good again.

I have a Dodd Balanced Power Supply on the way to check out. Presumably it will clean up the A/C without any negative affects. It will also give me surge protection that I lack connecting the DAC to the wall directly. I'll feel better once it's got a little protection in place.

P.S. I swapped the VH Audio Flavor 1 feeding the amp with another Volex that had been sitting unused upstairs. The Volex seems to smooth things without losing detail or tonality or anything else (imaging still excellent, etc.). I'm not at all intending to bash VH Audio--they are a terrific company. I think the Flavor 1 was the wrong choice for my components, and VH Audio's beefier Flavor 4 might be a better choice. The Volex has also received a lot of positive comment as a cheap cable that performs surprisingly well. In my system I prefer it.


pardales

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #186 on: 23 Jan 2010, 11:19 pm »
I too think it sounds better plugged directly into the wall rather than my Quintet. I have had the DAC for a couple of weeks now and am really enjoying its sound. More to come...

satfrat

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Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #187 on: 23 Jan 2010, 11:27 pm »
I have a Dodd Balanced Power Supply on the way to check out. Presumably it will clean up the A/C without any negative affects. It will also give me surge protection that I lack connecting the DAC to the wall directly. I'll feel better once it's got a little protection in place.

I didn't know the Dodd Balanced Power Conditioner had surge protection included, are you sure about this? Thanks.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin

trianglezerius

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #188 on: 23 Jan 2010, 11:31 pm »

I didn't know the Dodd Balanced Power Conditioner had surge protection included, are you sure about this? Thanks.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin

I own the Dodd BPT and it doesn't offer surge protection just balanced power.

newzooreview

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #189 on: 23 Jan 2010, 11:33 pm »
I forgot to note that I'm getting better bass swapping the VH Audio Flavor 1 with the Volex on my amp. It still has excellent definition, but now has more heft and solidity. The music is now getting my fingers and toes tapping more than before. Very nice! I should have played more with it earlier, but just assumed the improvement on the Tranquility was unique and that the amp was still better off with the $130 cord. It's good to be wrong sometimes. :)

newzooreview

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #190 on: 23 Jan 2010, 11:37 pm »
I own the Dodd BPT and it doesn't offer surge protection just balanced power.

I got the idea that it did from this post: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=22943.0

It states "Extensive filtering for emi/rfi/surge on the mains coming into the unit."

And "Uses hyd/mag breaker for protection and power switch"

Are you sure that there is no surge protection in the Dodd, or are we just using the term differently?  :scratch:

newzooreview

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #191 on: 23 Jan 2010, 11:39 pm »
Also, trianglezerius, since you also have the Tranquility DAC, can you comment on any improvement with the Dodd power supply? Danny thought it wouldn't do as much for the Tranquility (due to built-in regulation and filtering in the DAC) but would help my amp (with switching power supply) a good bit.

Thanks.  :thumb:

DaveC113

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Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #192 on: 24 Jan 2010, 02:10 am »
i think dave is making a funny...   8)

doug s.

Yes, but I have my lawyers working on the patent application as we speak. I'd license the technology to dB Audio Labs for a couple of DACS... you know, to show my appreciation as this thread made me think of it.  8)

rpf

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #193 on: 24 Jan 2010, 02:29 am »
Eric,

 Given the size of the NYC Rave membership, hopefully someone will be bringing one to a Rave.

Regards,
Paul

What he said.   8)

db audio labs

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Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #194 on: 24 Jan 2010, 07:01 am »
Hi Guys,

Just for clarification sake, there are DEFINITE sonic differences between different power cords used on the Tranquility. The sonic differences are just reduced as compared to most other audiophile power supply circuits. Hence, there are other things that a good power cord may offer beyond our own electronic optimizations and noise rejection schemes. For instance, you should be able to detect some dynamic differences between power cord variants. Our goal was to give you guys the ability to achieve really good sound from the Tranquility right out of the box, without the absolute need of having to purchase a big money state of the art power cord to get it to sound special  :green:

Cheers,

Eric H

timztunz

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #195 on: 24 Jan 2010, 12:49 pm »
Hi Guys,

Just for clarification sake, there are DEFINITE sonic differences between different power cords used on the Tranquility. The sonic differences are just reduced as compared to most other audiophile power supply circuits. Hence, there are other things that a good power cord may offer beyond our own electronic optimizations and noise rejection schemes. For instance, you should be able to detect some dynamic differences between power cord variants. Our goal was to give you guys the ability to achieve really good sound from the Tranquility right out of the box, without the absolute need of having to purchase a big money state of the art power cord to get it to sound special  :green:

Cheers,

Eric H

This makes sense and my own findings agree.  I added a Silver Circle Audio Vesuvius power cord to my Tranquility and did experience increased dynamics.  I concur that the change was less dramatic than the difference I've seen in adding these power cords to all my other components.  I wasn't at all unimpressed with the sound of this DAC using a stock power cord, quite the opposite in fact, I'm still in awe of what this DAC can do.  But I had the Vesuvius and wanted to see what it would do.  It took me just one step closer.  Isn't that what we're all trying to do, just get "one step closer"?

gerald porzio

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Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #196 on: 24 Jan 2010, 01:56 pm »
As an audio agnostic, what's the essence of SOA pwr. cords? Anything beyond Ga., $ spent & duplicate good filtration which is the sine qua non of any properly designed amp.

newzooreview

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #197 on: 24 Jan 2010, 03:23 pm »
As an audio agnostic, what's the essence of SOA pwr. cords? Anything beyond Ga., $ spent & duplicate good filtration which is the sine qua non of any properly designed amp.

 :scratch: I'm not sure that I understand the question. What is "SOA" and what is "Ga."?

drab

Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #198 on: 24 Jan 2010, 03:28 pm »
"State of the art" and "Gauge" :thumb:

DaveC113

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Re: The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!
« Reply #199 on: 24 Jan 2010, 04:00 pm »
As an audio agnostic, what's the essence of SOA pwr. cords? Anything beyond Ga., $ spent & duplicate good filtration which is the sine qua non of any properly designed amp.

Any cable will have an effect on the signal going through it, be it audio or a 60 Hz sine wave. Power cord geometry and the quality of connectors makes an audible difference in a lot of gear. All the reasons why haven't been answered, but it's east to see how geometry effects C and L... what the results are is not fully defined, but a lot of people (delusional or not) notice sometimes significant differences in audio quality depending on the power cord used.

With most things audio, it's not necessary to spend lots of cash to achieve good results, although if you want the best materials available, it's going to start costing a lot. I used surplus mil-spec wire I found on ebay and basic, non-plated connectors I got at a local surplus store for my pcs and am happy with the results considering they cost less to build than many pre-built extension cords at a hardware store. Better connectors are available at over 10x the price, but I'm not rich yet.