[Rick Craig]

... Alexandrite arrays in Walnut Burl   

[gooberdude]

Does Selah Audio have a shop in Chi-town?

[Rick Craig]

Does Selah Audio have a shop in Chi-town?

No but I'm open to having an in-home dealer for these areas :

 Chicago, Denver, NYC, Seattle, southern / northern California. Call, PM, or email if you're interested. This would be local sales only with a restricted territory.

[alotaklipsch]

Craig,

I am interested in having the ULTIMATE line array, I have the Epiphany 12/12's now, and have a pair of ls9's on order.  I have a couple ideas myself, though, and have been playing with custom speakers like these http://picasaweb.google.com/tmoble/Stevewalls1213

I am thinking along the lines of scan-speak revelator drivers wire in pairs or tri's, to enhance efficiency, I may be barking up a tree, and yes, I know they are $$$$, but, the best costs.  I would definatley consider being an in home dealer.  Email me, and let's talk.

BTW, I would love to compare the Alexandrite to the 12/12, and tell people what I hear.  I have some top notch eq. to use....

Steve

[David Ellis]

Does Selah Audio have a shop in Chi-town?

I'll take the liberty of blogging on this subject.

The short answer is that retail hifi shops work on 100% markup, and there just isn't enough margin in DIY speakers commonly familiar to folks frequenting this forum.  DIY loudspeaker purveyors spend too much on parts and their prices aren't high enough to "afford" having their products in a retail storefront.  Folks who intimately understand amplifiers have conveyed the same sentiment regarding the products they convey.

A very easy example of a solid commercial loudspeaker product exists in the Joseph Audio RM22si.  I believe this product is very good and represents a marquee in the commercial loudspeaker realm.  This speaker has a fairly decent cabinet, about $250 in electronics internally and retails for $2200. 

The very simple reason why folks like Rick are able to build a better loudspeaker for less $$ is that Rick doesn't use a storefront and it's 100% markup.  There are other factors too, but the storefront markup is the most significant.  There really isn't anything "magical" at work herein.  Rick has all of the knowledge necessary to design an extremely competent loudspeaker, and... this knowledge is significant.  Given the lack of commercial/storefront overhead, Rick is able to sell the same product for less money or a much better product for the same money as the commercial folks.  This knowledge is common for those who understand loudspeakers.

Oh, the relative value issue is also why the Salksound HT3 sounds on par with the Joseph Audio Pearl.  The quality of parts implemented is very similar.  However, I have a hunch that Jim's tweeter capacitors are better.  There aren't many commercial speakers using boutique capacitors in their speakers.  Most commercial consumers have grown accustomed to Solen's aren't willing to pay for the better stuff.

It might not be fair for Rick to convey this information in his own forum.  Certainly it would seem like self-aggrandizement.  It also opens a can-of worms for further discussion.

Please understand that I truly believe the products from Joseph Audio represent a very good commercial product.  Many other speakers use cheaper drivers, but these are less obvious.  I was told that ALL drivers in B&W loudspeakers are made in China, and have never heard otherwise. 

Also, as a rule of thumb... I believe the quantity of marketing gobbledygook is inversely proportional to the value of components used.  The company is obviously spending more time paying for their marketing department than in hardware.  I believe B*** has truly perfected this balance.

Dave

[smithsonga]

"I was told that ALL drivers in B&W loudspeakers are made in China, and have never heard otherwise."

I am assuming you are assuming that all products from China are substandard.  I feel we need to be careful in that broad assumption.

[WEEZ]

I think Dave's comment about B&W's Chinese driver manufacturing had more to do with 'mark-up' and 'profitability' then whether they're "sub-standard" or not. I believe that B&W has their lower-end speakers completely made in China. Makes no difference to me either way.

WEEZ

[WEEZ]

..and so there's no misunderstanding, I am NOT endorsing B&W. Quite the contrary...

[Rick Craig]

Craig,

I am interested in having the ULTIMATE line array, I have the Epiphany 12/12's now, and have a pair of ls9's on order.  I have a couple ideas myself, though, and have been playing with custom speakers like these http://picasaweb.google.com/tmoble/Stevewalls1213

I am thinking along the lines of scan-speak revelator drivers wire in pairs or tri's, to enhance efficiency, I may be barking up a tree, and yes, I know they are $$$$, but, the best costs.  I would definatley consider being an in home dealer.  Email me, and let's talk.

BTW, I would love to compare the Alexandrite to the 12/12, and tell people what I hear.  I have some top notch eq. to use....

Steve

I'll contact you when I'm back in the office. The arrays are shipping next week or the week after that.

[alotaklipsch]

Craig,

I am interested in having the ULTIMATE line array, I have the Epiphany 12/12's now, and have a pair of ls9's on order.  I have a couple ideas myself, though, and have been playing with custom speakers like these http://picasaweb.google.com/tmoble/Stevewalls1213

I am thinking along the lines of scan-speak revelator drivers wire in pairs or tri's, to enhance efficiency, I may be barking up a tree, and yes, I know they are $$$$, but, the best costs.  I would definatley consider being an in home dealer.  Email me, and let's talk.

BTW, I would love to compare the Alexandrite to the 12/12, and tell people what I hear.  I have some top notch eq. to use....

Steve

I'll contact you when I'm back in the office. The arrays are shipping next week or the week after that.

Cool, I look forward it Merry Christmas aa

[Rick Craig]

I think Dave's comment about B&W's Chinese driver manufacturing had more to do with 'mark-up' and 'profitability' then whether they're "sub-standard" or not. I believe that B&W has their lower-end speakers completely made in China. Makes no difference to me either way.

WEEZ

Much of the product sold now is coming from China. Some of it is very good quality and some not so good.

[David Ellis]

I am assuming you are assuming that all products from China are substandard.  I feel we need to be careful in that broad assumption.

This... would be an incorrect assumption.

I think Dave's comment about B&W's Chinese driver manufacturing had more to do with 'mark-up' and 'profitability' then whether they're "sub-standard" or not.

This would be the correct assumption.

As mentioned in the initial preamble, there are may issues that may be controversial, and result in a "can of worms" being opened.

I can certainly offer some clarification regarding the relative quality of parts made in China.  This is my OPINION only.  I don't have kippel graphs to support my assertions.  I also don't have double-blind listening test results with appropriate statistical analysis performed.  They are my subjective opinion only.  

I do think there are good loudspeaker drivers made in China.  The Usher drivers are certainly decent.  I think the Usher woofers are superior to darn-near every Vifa woofer.  And, I think some of the B&W drivers are decent.  And, I had a paper coned driver similar to the W18 made in China and it was pretty decent too.  And, I hesitate to admit this, but I have a relatively cheap modular radio with some plastic coned woofers and a foam surround that sound okay.  Eventually, more quality conscious people may indeed have their drivers produce in China.   Certainly there has been a migration towards this in the past 15 years.  B*** was probably the first large company to cross this bridge, and has done so quite successfully.  So, it should be clear that I do not believe that all loudspeaker drivers made in China are substandard.

Some time ago I read a diatribe from a gent who formerly worked at Jensen loudspeakers in the USA.  It was an interesting read that ultimately ended in defeat following Jensen's inability to produce car audio drivers for less than @$1.50 each.  I am not sure of the exact amount, but it was darn close to $1.50.  

//

I do believe the very best drivers on the planet are not made in China.  Accuton, SEAS Excel, Scanspeak, Raven, Dynaudio Esotar, are certainly among these.  ATC, Zellaton, ATD are also exceptionally good drivers that probably have no equal in China.  

My intent is not to address all drivers from all manufacturers in the above commentary.  It is only to offer some clarification regarding the initial misconception.

Dave