Large Subwoofer putty question

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JOE WILMORE

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Large Subwoofer putty question
« on: 30 Jul 2003, 04:58 pm »
I wanted to know exactly what you are changing by taking putty out, or adding more in?  What should you notice when you have too much or not enough?

John Casler

Large Subwoofer putty question
« Reply #1 on: 31 Jul 2003, 02:27 am »
Hi Joe,

Well quite simply changing the mass (adding or subtracting putty) on your Passive Radiator allows you to tailor the response of your woofer system to the electrical impules of your amps output.

All amps have varying ability to send current to your woofers voice coil.  Generally those with larger current capabilities and higher Dampening ratios can move the woofers more effectively.

Lesser powered amps and those with lower dampening ability cannot.  If you run tube equipment, you will probably have to remove substantial putty.

If you run 600+wpc with 500+ dampening then you may need to remove none or even add.

As Brian says the symtoms of too much putty (mass) and too little (are) the same.  The sound becomes muffled and boomy, or wooly.

When the mass is right, you have a dryer, tighter and deeper bass, with pretty good definition.

Since the signal from the amp is going to be the same every time you play a certain cut at a designated power setting, the only alternative to getting the bass reasonably accurate is to make that mass adjustment.

It is not all that hard and many times it has to be made by what you hear and not what you measure.

If you remove too much putty, then the signal from the amp will "overdrive" the system and it will not sound right.  Usually muffled and boomy, not sharp and defined.

If you under drive the woofers they will sound the same way since they will respond too slowly because they are too heavy.

So the idea is to find the amount of putty that gives you the cleanest, most detailed bass.

And a couple hints in doing this.  Use the listening volume you would normally listen at for making adjustments.  This will yield the best overall result.

And if you change the amp or location of the woofer, you may have to re-adjust the putty so save all putty removed in a small plastic bag.

And newer suspensions being stiffer may require you remove a bit more putty to then add a bit back 6 months or a year later.

The method is usually to first lsten to the bass with some deep bass passages.  Remember what the bass sounds like now.  Then reach under and take off a bit of putty about the size of a pea.  Now listen again.  

Listen carefully.  Look for attack, leading edge, boominess, droneing, all the qualities bass can have.

If it sounds right, remove a "fingernail" full more.  Listen again.

Repeat this process until you hear the quality deteriorate to a wooly, loose sound.  At the first notice of that, add back the last "fingernail" and listen again.  You may have to add back two fingernails but that should be just about the right amount.

Some of the best music to use is Jazz String bass cuts, since they have good attack and definition when well adjusted.


So to recap:

Too much putty = slower woofer and muffled sound :cry:

Too little putty = over driven woofer and boomy sound :evil:

Just right putty = tight, deep, defined, bass. :mrgreen:

Hope that helps and Brian can correct me if I stepped on (or in)something 8)

audionoob

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Large Subwoofer putty question
« Reply #2 on: 15 Aug 2003, 04:07 am »
John does your explanation also applies to the 626R. I have received my 626R 2 weeks ago and I found the bass too boomy & muddy. I know Brian mentioned something about taking out some wool from the enclosure but won't that rise the Q factor and made the matter worst?

Sedona Sky Sound

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Large Subwoofer putty question
« Reply #3 on: 15 Aug 2003, 04:41 am »
Hello Audionoob,
What John said about the amp/speaker interaction applies equally to the 626Rs. Fortunately, the 626R is not nearly as hard to drive as the RM40s, so a wide range of medium to high current amps work well with them. Unfortunately, there is no mass to remove to help solidify the sound with an under-current/under-damped amp.

So far, the only time I have heard a "muddy" or "boomy" sound is when the 626Rs were hooked to 3 and 8 watt SET amps. The 626Rs also did not seem to mate well with a Conrad Johnson amp I tested which somewhat surprised me (the sound wasn't boomy but just wasn't as tight as it should be). With the 100W Marsh (what I would classify as a medium current amp) it is pretty solid. With the 200W Ampzillas (a very HIGH current amp) it is absolutely rock solid with no "flabbyness" what-so-ever.

This past weekend I mated my 626Rs with a modified 40W Sonic Frontier Tube Amp and the sound was absolutely fantastic (http://www.wardsweb.org/LSB/08_09_03/Houston.html). The mids were warm and the bass seemed to be just as solid as my Marsh.

I would hesitate to start removing wool if you are planning to upgrade amps anytime soon.  

Julian
www.sedonaskysound

John Casler

Large Subwoofer putty question
« Reply #4 on: 15 Aug 2003, 05:02 am »
Julian is right on the money.  And as far as removing part of the insulation, I would look for Big B to answer your question since i don't have any experience in that area.

But there are other things to look at:

1) as Julian said, make sure your have enough current to control the woofer.

2) make sure you have the speaker "placed" well so that the boominess is not caused by bad placement (check with your dealer)

3) Clean the path of the bass waves.  That is make sure that you are not interupting the path of the bass by having furniture between you and the woofers.  Bass travels until it encounters a boundary or object and when it does, it is delfected, channeled, and or absorbed (usually a bit of all 3).  If you have too many objects between you and the woofer, it could muffle/disturb the leading edge a bit.

3) See if you can place the speaker on a stand with a solid front.  Sound Anchor now makes such a stand and several of my 626R clientele have them. (although they are rather expensive)

If you don't want to purchase a new stand you might experiment like I did by using an "old speaker" that was 20"-26" high.  Make sure that the front of the 626R is "flush" with the front of the speaker.  

Turn the stand speaker so that the drivers themselves either face the back, or sides.  You don't want them facing forward or the bass wave pressure from the 626R will turn their woofer(s) into Passive Radiators, which may also soften or make the bass flabby or boomy.

And if these don't work search the archives for Big B's suggestions (I think he answered this question or one similar about 6-8 weeks ago)

audionoob

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Large Subwoofer putty question
« Reply #5 on: 15 Aug 2003, 05:12 am »
Hi Julian. I am running my 626R on a Musical Fidelity int amp with a power rating of 150w RMS @ 8ohms. The amp had no problem with my previous speakers, a Legacy Classic. In any case, I am desperate now so I think I will just go ahead and take out some wool from the 626R. I did notice the 626R's cone excursion is very "lively" compared to my Legacy's.

Sedona Sky Sound

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 204
Large Subwoofer putty question
« Reply #6 on: 15 Aug 2003, 06:06 am »
Hello Audionoob,
I have not heard  the Musical Fidelity amps with the 626R, but I would agree that this does not sound like an amp issue. I would definitely try all of John's suggestions before removing any wool. The drivers can be stuck in the cabinet pretty well so it is easy to damage something taking them out.

I also agree with John that you should be working very closely with your dealer. You should absolutely expect your dealer to assist you in every way possible until you are satisfied. Expertise and service are two of the main attributes of buying a VMPS product (even more so than price).

Best of luck.        

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com