[vegasdave]

Yeah, that's pretty bad. I would never spend money on that stuff. You're better off getting new speakers, amp, turntable, etc.

[Stu Pitt]

There's a ton of stupid crap in our hobby - cable elevators, somehow system enhancement CDs, markers, and on and on.

But that's not unique to home audio.  Every hobby has its share of absurd crap.  You probably haven't heard of other hobbies' garbage because you haven't investigated it as deeply.

[vegasdave]

There's a ton of stupid crap in our hobby - cable elevators, somehow system enhancement CDs, markers, and on and on.

But that's not unique to home audio.  Every hobby has its share of absurd crap.  You probably haven't heard of other hobbies' garbage because you haven't investigated it as deeply.

True.

[mclsound]

I purchased a brand new Artic Cat ZR 500 snowmobile in 1999 and a used AC Z440 for my wife.After 5 years in the hobby I spent an easy $25,000 in cash on everything and sold the sleds for $6500.I lost over $18,000 and it was a HOBBY......I will probably not purchase much ""NEW"" anymore in my audio hobby but to loose $18,000 here in 5yrs will never happen(not for me anyways) again....All hobbies have a price and I believe you pick only ""ONE"" hobby and love it ....not 3 and just like it!!

[vegasdave]

I agree. But, I don't like taking the chance on used gear, with some exceptions. I really would have to see it and hear it in person.

[Berto]

I purchased a brand new Artic Cat ZR 500 snowmobile in 1999 and a used AC Z440 for my wife.After 5 years in the hobby I spent an easy $25,000 in cash on everything and sold the sleds for $6500.I lost over $18,000 and it was a HOBBY......I will probably not purchase much ""NEW"" anymore in my audio hobby but to loose $18,000 here in 5yrs will never happen(not for me anyways) again....All hobbies have a price and I believe you pick only ""ONE"" hobby and love it ....not 3 and just like it!!

Whatever you do don't get into high-performance boating I don't dwell on the six figure loss since (as I'm aware)  u only go around once. As long as you can continue to pay all your bills and live ok, enjoy your life

[alexone]

it Is shamefull ,
The ultimate audio improvement
A serious upgrade,
A vital component,
$4200.00  GOLDEN GODESS SUPER EFECT SPEAKER BULLETS
http://www.audioxsell.com/classified/465177/Bybee-SES-Speaker-Bullets.htm
IT IS TERMINALS, for speaker wire,

And no, there is no defence,
this is complete with multiple reviews, and ridiculous, absurd claims.
Lowers noise,increases soundfield, relaxes, warms, comes to life, operates on the signal not the current.

I found one beliveable claim,  <It is difficult to say what  they do!!!!>

I invite you to check it out, why Audiophile has a bad reputation, and it is only getting worse.

Audiophile? not me.

Vettemanbc,

you are right. these kind of products are a shame. unbelievable.

al.

[Construct]

these kind of products are a shame. unbelievable.

Billy Mays here for the Bybee SES Speaker Bullets!.  They will make your stereo sensitive enough to hear clouds scraping!  This is the ultimate tweak, only the Bybee SES Speaker Bullets can make your system a window through time and you can have them for just 190 easy payments of $19.99!  If you order in the next ten minutes, we will throw in a bottle of Richard Gray Power Company snake oil in a 2 ounce bottle!  Be the first on your block to make your system even more superfluous than anyone else!  Here's how to order... call 1-800-gullible.[/]..
.

[werd]

Billy Mays here for the Bybee SES Speaker Bullets!.  They will make your stereo sensitive enough to hear clouds scraping!  This is the ultimate tweak, only the Bybee SES Speaker Bullets can make your system a window through time and you can have them for just 190 easy payments of $19.99!  If you order in the next ten minutes, we will throw in a bottle of Richard Gray Power Company snake oil in a 2 ounce bottle!  Be the first on your block to make your system even more superfluous than anyone else!  Here's how to order... call 1-800-gullible.[/]..
.

hello construct

so is it the price you don't agree with or you think it does nothing at all?

[Construct]

hello construct

so is it the price you don't agree with or you think it does nothing at all?

Both.  I am sure it does something, but for the cost---a better preamp or source would do 100X as much. As another posted alluded to: outrageous snake oil for extreme pricing for the gullible.  For that kind of money I can get a Bryston 4bsst, not just a couple wire terminals...what a joke.

[vegasdave]

Both.  I am sure it does something, but for the cost---a better preamp or source would do 100X as much. As another posted alluded to: outrageous snake oil for extreme pricing for the gullible.  For that kind of money I can get a Bryston 4bsst, not just a couple wire terminals...what a joke.

Exactly.

[kingdeezie]

Both.  I am sure it does something, but for the cost---a better preamp or source would do 100X as much. As another posted alluded to: outrageous snake oil for extreme pricing for the gullible.  For that kind of money I can get a Bryston 4bsst, not just a couple wire terminals...what a joke.

I agree with you.

However, I don't think these are made for the average audiophile. These are a luxury product, within a luxury, made for those people who already have top shelf throughout their system.

If you have a 100K speakers hooked up to 300K worth of electronics, what is 4K for some wire terminals to you?

If the manufacturer sells 10 sets of these a year, its likely he had made at least $39,000 in profit, and is likely all he cares about.

I would hope that if someone is rocking a reasonably priced system, that they would not blow the same amount on wire terminals that they have on a preamp under the notion that they would change his/her system. However, if they do, its not so much the fault of the manufacturer, as it is the person buying them blindly. 

[vegasdave]

I agree.

[whanafi]

It is an interesting conundrum that people with a lot of money are "gullible" and partial to buying snake oil. 

One would think that they would have to be relatively smart to have amassed the money in the first place, or all they all just spending their trust funds?

While being pro-choice when it comes to how a person spends their money, isn't there also an aspect of fraud when something is supposed to deliver a benefit that is illusory?  If you do that with food or drugs you get slapped down pretty hard.

[Construct]

I agree with you.

However, I don't think these are made for the average audiophile. These are a luxury product, within a luxury, made for those people who already have top shelf throughout their system.

If you have a 100K speakers hooked up to 300K worth of electronics, what is 4K for some wire terminals to you?

If the manufacturer sells 10 sets of these a year, its likely he had made at least $39,000 in profit, and is likely all he cares about.

I would hope that if someone is rocking a reasonably priced system, that they would not blow the same amount on wire terminals that they have on a preamp under the notion that they would change his/her system. However, if they do, its not so much the fault of the manufacturer, as it is the person buying them blindly.

Ok, we are more less on the same page so I will expand my point.
 $100K speaker systems tend to be arbitrarily overpriced to command prestige.  This is not new, or an exaggeration as the concept was indeed introduced by Dave Wilson.  He does not cater to the poor or middle class, and unabashedly has stated this about his products.  Like genesis and other companies the price is set at certain "magic"  price points that have nothing to do with production or materials...it's all about respect.  That is the same thing done by car companies that make cars affordable only to a certain income bracket or above.  Not just anyone can own these items...exclusivity= prestige =luxury.
And yes, if one can afford to drop 100K on speakers, the cost of the bybee terminals is of no more consequence than you or I buying a pepsi, it's all relative.  Again, bybee cannot justify the astronomical price of their toys by materials or manufacturing. (especially since they are probably made in China for $4.50  each.)  They do it for appeal, of course. 
Two additional clarifications:Luxury:My definition of luxury isn't a pair of arbitrarily priced costume jewelry terminals.  Luxury, IMO is an insanely heavy milled component stands rich with marble and gold plating.  It's that CNC milled chassis for a component with opulent appointments.  The product itself could be made for absurdly less, but is expensive due to these touches. It's that exotic wood cabinet and specialty enclosure.  And it's also that custom soundroom with beautiful lighting effects, hardwood floors and sound treatment. 
Gullible:  I have met very brilliant and rich people that are gullible. Did anyone really think Bernie Madoff's scheme was real? Certainly.  That's how certain cults can be explained.  That is how rich people are separated from their money by snake oil, too-good-to-be-true investments and anything else that can be had for a price that they have the means to buy.  They can throw cash at anything and value means nothing.  So if they find satisfaction, good for them.  But many things they spend money on fail the logic test badly.  It's not just gullibility, it's ego fuel.
Incidentally, I have heard $20K speakers that impress and involve me more than some $100K speakers I listened to.

[vegasdave]

Great post! Now, do you feel that most high end audio is overpriced, or?

[Construct]

Great post! Now, do you feel that most high end audio is overpriced, or?

Not necessarily.  Stuff like wilson, genesis, kharma, alon (ugh),  revel and others tend to be absurd for the sake of it.  I read an article about a brainstorming session to price high end products.  Even at $40K it would have been high.  The manufacturer decided it would sell better at the magic arbitrary number of $100k.  I once compared my modest ATC scm-12 to wilson watts (just the top of the watt/puppy).  Here we have speakers at least 10x the cost apart.  The scm-12 involved me, the focal-tioxid equipped wilson sounded hard and etched, not my bag.  I have an article from watchdog (audio perfectionist)  that describes how the watt/puppy wasn't just designed to impress rich folks, it was also made to impress reviewers.  The focal tweeter "went off like a fire alarm"  at 19khz. A speaker that cost $22K  that measures poorly and sounds less impressive than a $1,000 speaker.  Note that wilson moved on the beryllium tweeters. At least that gives them edge for the $10k-$12K dealer markup.  Not my cup o tea though.

Companies like salk, vmps, bryston, magnepan, mccormack, Thiel, vandersteen, vonsweikert, AVA, nottingham, VPI, B&W, Clearaudio and a HOST of others offer what I call fairly (understandably or justifiably) priced high end. That is partly because they are engineered.  They each make products that sound purely musical, win awards and kick the snot out of a lot of those overinflated products.  If a company pours it's soul into R&D and HONESTLY engineers (like Richard Dunlavy, Richard Vandersteen,  D'Appolito, Nelson Pass, Brian Cheney, John Curl etc)  I can understand a certain expense, especially when you get a product adorned in expensive touches (milled chassis, gold plating , marble etc)  Ever heard of Hamilton?  They use the diaural crossover gimmick and sold a few $14K mini monitors.  $14k?  GMAFB.

This may sound crazy, but I listen with my ears alone.  That excludes eyes, wallet, or genitals.  I appreciate fine work and eye candy.  But the bottom line is that there are plenty of products that don't cost as much as a house in Nebraska that sound as -good often better-  than these cost-is no-object ego inflation devices.  On this very board, we have Salk, VMPS, and PLC speakers that offer that level of sound refinement, and manage to do it without the ponzi-scheme prices.  They all have technology and drivers that don't usually find their way into sub $12,000 speakers, let alone $2,000 speakers.  I have said it before and I'll say it again:  these companies only need to formulate some kind of pretentious model name for their speakers, add a shiny corian cabinet and charge $40K-$100K  and they will be in the running.  Lucky for us, they give us pure performance that also measures well at an affordable price. 

FWIW: I have heard genesis, infinity (remember the irs-III?)  Kharma, wilson, krell (speakers, eeew) revel and other snob-approved cost unlimited high end speakers that made me walk out of the room.   Yet I have heard displays of the products in the second paragraph and wanted to listen all day.  But I don't have a 6-figure income, and I have no one to impress.  Therefore I am forced to be objective vs price-oriented.  The facts as I see them are that high price is not always attached to superior sound.

[Construct]

Construct,
 
The Enter key lets you divide long posts into paragraphs so they are more easily read.
 
Steve

Your pedantic sarcasm aside, I tried that and it recombined after posting.  I'll try again. It recombines (even after several space)  when img links are included as well.
Must be the wysiwyhyg  interface.  (What you see is what you hope you get)

[whanafi]

Ok, we are more less on the same page so I will expand my point.
 $100K speaker systems tend to be arbitrarily overpriced to command prestige.  This is not new, or an exaggeration as the concept was indeed introduced by Dave Wilson.  He does not cater to the poor or middle class, and unabashedly has stated this about his products.  Like genesis and other companies the price is set at certain "magic"  price points that have nothing to do with production or materials...it's all about respect.  That is the same thing done by car companies that make cars affordable only to a certain income bracket or above.  Not just anyone can own these items...exclusivity= prestige =luxury.
And yes, if one can afford to drop 100K on speakers, the cost of the bybee terminals is of no more consequence than you or I buying a pepsi, it's all relative.  Again, bybee cannot justify the astronomical price of their toys by materials or manufacturing. (especially since they are probably made in China for $4.50  each.)  They do it for appeal, of course. 
Two additional clarifications:Luxury:My definition of luxury isn't a pair of arbitrarily priced costume jewelry terminals.  Luxury, IMO is an insanely heavy milled component stands rich with marble and gold plating.  It's that CNC milled chassis for a component with opulent appointments.  The product itself could be made for absurdly less, but is expensive due to these touches. It's that exotic wood cabinet and specialty enclosure.  And it's also that custom soundroom with beautiful lighting effects, hardwood floors and sound treatment. 
Gullible:  I have met very brilliant and rich people that are gullible. Did anyone really think Bernie Madoff's scheme was real? Certainly.  That's how certain cults can be explained.  That is how rich people are separated from their money by snake oil, too-good-to-be-true investments and anything else that can be had for a price that they have the means to buy.  They can throw cash at anything and value means nothing.  So if they find satisfaction, good for them.  But many things they spend money on fail the logic test badly.  It's not just gullibility, it's ego fuel.
Incidentally, I have heard $20K speakers that impress and involve me more than some $100K speakers I listened to.

All of which makes sense except for practical experience which suggests that most rich people are incredibly cheap.  On everyday items, they haggle like crazy.  As you say, it is the ego-stroking, mumbo-jumbo that reviewers and salesmen use that changes that native cheapness into a desire for the "best" however ridiculous the actual service/device/material is.

[Construct]

All of which makes sense except for practical experience which suggests that most rich people are incredibly cheap.  On everyday items, they haggle like crazy.  As you say, it is the ego-stroking, mumbo-jumbo that reviewers and salesmen use that changes that native cheapness into a desire for the "best" however ridiculous the actual service/device/material is.

Sure, I was neighbors with a few well-to-do.  One guy drove a subaru, the other had two vipers, which together cost less than one  porsche.  Some are very cheap, but sad to say, there are throngs of them that love to flaunt it.