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Other Stuff => Archived Circles => Hypex Owners Circle => Topic started by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 03:18 am

Title: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 03:18 am
This is not profit making suggestion, rather looking for good price for six chassis.  I also consider bamboo enclosure for esthetics but such requires foil lining for shielding (I have no RFI issues but you might). 

http://www.siliconray.com/re2207-215x70x228-aluminum-enclosure.html

Mike at this company in China replies quickly to my emails.  I need six chassis already, 3 for me, 3 for a friend.  IIRC I found him at DIYaudio.   

If I add four or more chassis to bring total order up to 10, and if someone makes CAD file, we can apparently get them delivered here to me in N. Utah for a good price.  Hoping member CoZ takes no offense, just considering other possibilities.

Mike emailed me:
Quote
Hi James
 
Shipping cost of 6 enclosures can be calculated online. Please note that there will be $10 (or $12, $15, depend on your location) one time flate rate shipping cost when check out. You need to pay $35 shipping cost for 1 pcs, but only $60 for 2pcs. That means the more you order the lower the average price.
 
We accept custom cutout for orders more than 10pc. Please send me the CAD file of the cutouts. Cost won't be very high here, or even free if the qty is big enough.
 
Regards
Mike
 

Tossing it out for reader's consideration.  Prepay with bank check or +3% for Paypal.  I will re-ship enclosures immediately after receipt, charging my exact wholesale shipping cost with Endicia 3rd party USPS to your home/business.  You must choose to add for insurance or decline insurance, your call.  No insurance is all your risk, but read on...   

Me shipping to you: For 1.5 years we have 100% success shipping primeVibe kits via USPS, about 60% to USA/40% international.  Maybe once or twice foreign customs delays otherwise, as I said, 100% perfect from USPS.   

Beyond that, the generally accepted layout seems fine:

One XLR, no RCA
IEC, no fuse, no switch (SMPS already fused...why add an unnecessary switch in the IEC?)
Seven base holes for amp/PS

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: JDUBS on 15 May 2012, 03:33 am
This is not profit making suggestion, rather looking for good price for six chassis.  I also consider bamboo enclosure for esthetics but such requires foil lining for shielding (I have no RFI issues but you might). 

http://www.siliconray.com/re2207-215x70x228-aluminum-enclosure.html

Mike at this company in China replies quickly to my emails.  I need six chassis already, 3 for me, 3 for a friend.  IIRC I found him at DIYaudio.   

If I add four or more chassis to bring total order up to 10, and if someone makes CAD file, we can apparently get them delivered here to me in N. Utah for a good price.  Hoping member CoZ takes no offense, just considering other possibilities.

Mike emailed me: 

Tossing it out for reader's consideration.  Absolutely positively you'd have to prepay adding 3% for Paypal because I'm not wanting to hassle with checks, sorry (shocked to find European vendors add 4%).  I will re-ship enclosures immediately after receipt, charging my exact wholesale shipping cost with Endicia 3rd party USPS.  You must choose to add for insurance or decline insurance, your call.  No insurance is all your risk.   

We've had 100% success shipping about 600 primeVibe kits via USPS to USA and about fifty foreign countries.  Couple times foreign customs delays, completely customs fault only. 

For bi-wire I prefer four binding posts where ever they best fit.  Buyers preferring single pair will have to empty holes, for which I presume you could find plugs. 

Beyond that, the generally accepted layout seems fine:

One XLR, no RCA
IEC with rocker switch, no fuse (SMPS already fused)
Power light on faceplate

Nice!  In addition to the backplate drilling, can you get them to drill out the bottom for the SMPS and module?  If so, I'm in for two.

-Jim
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TrungT on 15 May 2012, 03:40 am
I can draw a CAD file if you have all the dimension ready.
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: santacore on 15 May 2012, 03:45 am
I was going to order the long version of this chassis, so that I could put a little space between the amp and power supply modules. But hey, if they can do the drilling I'm willing to live with the smaller case. I would need 2 cases total.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: HT cOz on 15 May 2012, 04:00 am
  Hoping member CoZ takes no offense, just considering other possibilities.

No offense here, it's a free world and free market.  My day job is revolves around crude oil trading so I'm used to a pretty brutal marketplace.   :thumb:

Thanks,
Robert
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 04:12 am
I can draw a CAD file if you have all the dimension ready.
 :thumb:

Thanks.


I was going to order the long version of this chassis, so that I could put a little space between the amp and power supply modules. But hey, it they will do the drilling I'm willing to live with the smaller case. I would need 2 cases total.

For comparison, CoZ's chassis: 70 x 228 x 250
Chassis link in OP:                  80 x 228 x 215

Both above have enough space for mono.  IIRC CoZ' slightly longer chassis fits one PS and two amps.     
   

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 04:21 am
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 04:43 am
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 15 May 2012, 12:19 pm
Im in for a pair.  Do you think we should get the longer cases for adequate spacing of module and power supply?
I'd like to use cardas binding posts - wonder if that would be the same hole size
I dont need biwire holes per case only one set each
XLR Yes
power light not necessary
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: orientalexpress on 15 May 2012, 12:54 pm
I am in for 2 also,2 hole for speaker binding post. :D


Lapsan
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 05:54 pm
Im in for a pair.  Do you think we should get the longer cases for adequate spacing of module and power supply?
I'd like to use cardas binding posts - wonder if that would be the same hole size
I dont need biwire holes per case only one set each
XLR Yes
power light not necessary

Longer cases changes nothing regarding placement of PS and amp. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mjosef on 15 May 2012, 06:02 pm
That's one thing I don't like about these 'compact' Class D amp builds, cramming the power supply right up against the amp module...Bruno's "adequate" screams not optimal from an audiophile standpoint of wanting the best isolation between the ps (SMPS) and the amp.
I wonder why many manufactures often have the power supply in a separate enclosure...
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 15 May 2012, 06:07 pm
Fyi, JTWRace's touring pair and my pair shown on the "show us your NCores" thread use these same cases and have the appropriate orientation and spacing. It is similar to Hypex's NC1200 demo pair shown on 6Moons so I suspect it is quite optimum.

You really have to consider the pre-made cable and the twist you use. I waited until I had the modules and cases in hand, twisted the cables, laid it out on the base and back panel, then drilled the holes. Just keep in mind the instruction about keeping inputs and outputs away from power and don't run anything underneath or over the top of the modules.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 15 May 2012, 06:10 pm
FWIW I sent Jan-Peter an email with a picture when I had everything laid out on the chassis as I was the first one and Jan-Peter said it was fine...
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 06:24 pm
I really appreciate all the input regarding this, especially from pre-existing Ncore pioneers/builders/owners!



Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: rklein on 15 May 2012, 06:43 pm
I too, ordered the RE2207 enclosures with the IEC openings.  I just plan on doing my own drilling/cutouts as I am not sure yet on the connectors I will be utilizing. 

Regards,

Randy
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mjosef on 15 May 2012, 06:49 pm
Quote
Re. Ncore, it seems to come up over and over again that Bruno built something unique and counter-intuitive to our audiophile sentiments.  Of course we want to increase the space between the amp and it's PS.  But in this case the minimum acceptable spacing seems far less than what we'd normally expect.

Until someone actually builds one with an outboard ps(or same chassis but increased spacing between ps and amp module) and compares it to a compact build...one should exercise caution with reaching a conclusion.
Whenever I get mines, I certainly will be exploring maximum spacing.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 07:27 pm
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 15 May 2012, 07:33 pm
A pair for me too please.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: JDUBS on 15 May 2012, 07:41 pm
What is price range for suitable press for this job?  I hate holes being off and needing enlargement to fit because they are .3mm off the correct center.

Re. "conclusions": Hypex is my sole source for my own minimum build specifications.  I tire of reading cautions concerning that. 

My only exception is based on personal preference and experience.  In normal binding post use the music signal travels from the internal speaker wire to:

A ring or spade, then from that to
The post, then
Trough the post (whatever is the conductor material and its quality) to outside the chassis, from the post to
Another spade or banana to
The external speaker wire and on to the speaker

Each/any disparate metal transfer affects sound quality IMO. 

In my own case I will drill my own extra hole, one next to each binding post.  I will insert a rubber grommet in the this extra hole.  The internal speaker wire exits the grommet hole.  I tin the end of the wire and stick it in the post hole for bare wire.  I stick the speaker wire tinned end in the post hole and torque the post knob.  The signal passes only from one tinned wire end to the other.  I estimate this approximates the quality of the $75/pr WBT posts.  The only thing better is to solder them, which I'm not up to doing.         

I think Ric Schultz at EVS started this (binding post "bypass") and its my preference, too - if the manufacturer is cutting the holes...let's get them to do two more for our amps.

I wouldn't worry / care about folk not liking the enclosure dimensions.  They can figure out their own if they don't like these.

-Jim
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 15 May 2012, 07:54 pm
Do you have pictures of this method? James described it in PM but I'm not quite visualizing all the terms.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: undertow on 15 May 2012, 08:01 pm
 :scratch:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 08:02 pm
My amps just arrived.  I went from wondering if Bruno ran away with my money to wondering why I don't have the parts to assemble them. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Barry_NJ on 15 May 2012, 08:29 pm
Absolutely positively you'd have to prepay adding 3% for Paypal because I'm not wanting to hassle with checks, sorry (shocked to find European vendors add 4%).

FWIW... If you send a gift via PayPal, there is no fee for the sender or the recipient ;)
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 15 May 2012, 08:34 pm
Ah gotcha, I think James.

 So instead of using the whole binding post, you bypass the inside-the-chassis part of the binding post, taking the wire directly outside the chassis from inside, and pushing it through the hole in the bottom part of the binding posts, and connecting the wires from the speakers through the top part of the hole on the binding post so that they meet inside at the bottom of the post.

 Right?
 
 But why would you tin the ends? I thought solder didn't transfer electricity?
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 15 May 2012, 08:41 pm
I have used the through hole/clamped wire and grommet technique on speakers before with good results, but just an obvious caution in doing this with an amp, which is an active, not a passive device like a speaker.

If, just be accident, those loose output wires touch each other while live or either touches the grounded chassis, you're going to have some fireworks or at least shut the amp down in a hurry. Obviously you don't want to do it live on a regular basis, but I've decided it's not really worth the risk myself because I tend to fumble when upside down connecting speaker wires in the dark.

YMMV, but be safe out there!
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: sts9fan on 15 May 2012, 09:14 pm

 But why would you tin the ends? I thought solder didn't transfer electricity?

Please have someone put these together for you.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 15 May 2012, 09:18 pm

 Right because there was never a first build for you, even before your conception, you were on another infinite plane, building amps. :roll:

 All I'd heard before was that solder is non conductive.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: undertow on 15 May 2012, 09:26 pm
Most solder, especially "Silver" solder is more conductive than some of the connectors themselves. So don't go touching a solder connection with your tongue thinking its "Non-conductive" please!

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 09:28 pm
deleted, irrelevent
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 09:30 pm
deleted, irrelevent
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: undertow on 15 May 2012, 09:34 pm
There is no doubt this amp kit is Pretty easy to build, but even though one could get away with "Quick connects" and a crimper maybe thru the whole thing(the XLR would be a little tuff) maybe RCA only, I would still suggest there needs to be a warning on the box that minimum requirement to do this project is once in your life holding a solder iron. Otherwise I think you are in trouble.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 15 May 2012, 09:35 pm
 I'm sure the build will require a surgeon's mastery, but somehow I will manage.

 I've built crossovers and they work great. This can't be any harder. If not knowing that certain types of solder are conductive will then cause the amp to explode by my lack of knowing this, then just tell me what else I need to know without all the drama.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: sts9fan on 15 May 2012, 09:37 pm
Right because there was never a first build for you, even before your conception, you were on another infinite plane, building amps. :roll:

 All I'd heard before was that solder is non conductive.

On the contrary I did and still do suck at building amps. Even after building a few gainclones, 41hz, ZenV9, F5 etc.
The point is I built to learn.  I read technical articles and f'd up a LOT. You would be doing yourself a HUGE favor by building a gainclone.
You are reading advertising copy and know this is what you must have.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: sts9fan on 15 May 2012, 09:44 pm
I'm sure the build will require a surgeon's mastery, but somehow I will manage.

 I've built crossovers and they work great. This can't be any harder. If not knowing that certain types of solder are conductive will then cause the amp to explode by my lack of knowing this, then just tell me what else I need to know without all the drama.
Nobody is out to get you here dude. You just preach so much about how awesome something is then post this?  I am out of non-conductive solder. When you pick some up can you grab me a roll?
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: undertow on 15 May 2012, 09:44 pm
Rclark
By the way I was not taking any shot at you. However, I will say this... SOLDER IS CONDUCTIVE for electrical period. Yes Crossovers are easily built using various quick connects. So basically you have no solder to stay away from, this whole thing should be soldered with "Conductive" solder. Crossovers are basic straight wire connections so you could essentially twist an entire crossover by hand and electical tape!

And I actually just said above you can pull off this build "MINUS" soldering. But that will be difficult due to the types of various connections you need to make, so you would want Power connections with spade ends to actually "Securely" put your connectors, you would need to figure out a way to hook your INPUT section easily to the Jacks, whether it is XLR or RCA I have not seen many at all that you could put a quick connect on.

RCA might be the only input you could figure out a way to do NO solder, but your really pushing it.

Maybe with holes in the connectors and the best you could do is twist the wire thru the hole and try to electrical tape it secure. But its pretty jerry rigged at that point.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 15 May 2012, 09:58 pm
 Ok, when I was building my crossovers, one of them didn't work and I was able to track it to a part where the solder got in the way of the wire, I redid it and it worked.

 Also, from Wikipedia "2.No-clean fluxes which are mild enough to not "require" removal due to the non-conductive and non-corrosive residue.[4] Performance of the flux needs to be carefully evaluated; a very mild 'no-clean' flux might be perfectly acceptable for production equipment, but not give adequate performance for a poorly controlled hand-soldering operation. They are so-called "no-clean" because the residue left after the solder operation is non-conductive and won't cause electrical shorts; nevertheless these fluxes leave a white-color residue like dilute bird-droppings. which is plainly visible. Since the presence of discernible flux residue on circuit boards is a defect for all three classes of electronic circuit boards (ranging from cheap consumer electronics to high-reliability, mission critical applications), these sorts of fluxes must still be cleaned as with all hand solder work, typically brushing with 99% isopropyl alcohol as the solvent and lint-free non-synthetic (eg cotton) wipes"

 so there is non-conductive solder, I'm not completely off my gourd.

 Anyway, I just really can't see how this could be difficult. It looks like you snap some connectors together and solder some wires.

 And not offended guys, even if that was your intention. It's cool.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: sts9fan on 15 May 2012, 10:02 pm
That's talking about flux not solder. Did you read what flux is?
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 15 May 2012, 10:03 pm

 Well you can't solder without flux, right?
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: *Scotty* on 15 May 2012, 10:08 pm
Rclark, there are probably adult education opportunities in your community that might you might be able to take advantage of. There should be a number of places where you could learn more about basic electronics and soldering. Many junior colleges and 4 year schools will allow you to audit college courses that deal with the subject you are interested in.
 With the potential of over $1,500 going up in smoke, acquiring first hand instruction in soldering techniques as well as a more complete grounding in basic electronics seems to be infinitely preferable to trying to acquire the necessary knowledge from internet forums.
Scotty
Non-conductive solder is also known as hot melt glue.
If you have to remove solder flux from a board CRC Brakleen available from your local auto-parts store
works very well. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 May 2012, 10:12 pm

...Non-conductive solder is also known as hot melt glue...

Stop...you're killing me. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 15 May 2012, 10:15 pm

 No, now I'm determined to build them out myself. I'll find other resources to help me through it, thanks. James if you'd like to include me in the group buy, great, if not, great.

 Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: sts9fan on 15 May 2012, 10:19 pm
Remember, the smoke is magic...
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: JDUBS on 15 May 2012, 10:44 pm
Wow, this thread has taken a turn...for the funny!   :lol:

-Jim
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: OzarkTom on 15 May 2012, 10:52 pm
Does he have black front faceplates too?
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 15 May 2012, 11:08 pm
Does he have black front faceplates too?
He does have them available now.  When I asked for my last pair he didn't so I made my own...

Let's please stay on topic for the OP.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: OzarkTom on 15 May 2012, 11:13 pm
He does have them available now.  When I asked for my last pair he didn't so I made my own...

Let's please stay on topic for the OP.

This is not on topic for asking for black faceplates? :scratch:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 15 May 2012, 11:14 pm
This is not on topic for asking for black faceplates? :scratch:

Yes, you're fine.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Big Red Machine on 15 May 2012, 11:15 pm
These folks have some less expensive options.  I have used them and they will do some slight mods if you request them.

All Aluminum 3 Space Rack Box 10" Deep | eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/All-Aluminum-3-Space-Rack-Box-10-Deep-/260898689385?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbec61169

check their store for other sizes
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: OzarkTom on 15 May 2012, 11:18 pm
I will take two with the black front faceplates.

I don't need an off/on switch, but for those that want one with an LED light too, this one seems very nice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiFi-Audio-DIY-Aluminum-Chassis-Aluminum-Case-B-/190673312049?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6503d931


(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTQ4WDYxNQ==/$(KGrHqR,!roE-Yzw6fBRBPn7hUYJ9w~~60_1.JPG)


Internal Siza: W 175 mm x H  63 mm x D 320 mm
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: HT cOz on 16 May 2012, 12:15 am
No, now I'm determined to build them out myself. I'll find other resources to help me through it, thanks. James if you'd like to include me in the group buy, great, if not, great.

 Thanks everyone.


I get that people want to learn and everyone starts somewhere.  Here are some tips to consider:

1). Reach out to experienced builders in your area.  People into DIY audio, radio, electric guitar etc.  These people are generally pretty friendly and will help review your work.
2). If you are uncomfortable with that approach find an electronics repair shop.  Tell them that you have a project that you have built and want a safety review prior to power up.  They might charge $50???  Well worth it when you consider how much you have invested and that you are working with a device that can harm.
 3). Practice soldering prior to working on your expensive new amp.  Here is an example http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-SP3B-Practical-Soldering-Project/dp/B0002LUALG/ref=pd_sim_t_7 (http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-SP3B-Practical-Soldering-Project/dp/B0002LUALG/ref=pd_sim_t_7)   Pick up a book to go with it http://www.amazon.com/Make-Electronics-Discovery-Charles-Platt/dp/0596153740/ref=pd_sim_t_6 (http://www.amazon.com/Make-Electronics-Discovery-Charles-Platt/dp/0596153740/ref=pd_sim_t_6)
4). Hire someone to build it for you if these first 3 points don't appeal to you.  What is the incremental cost 10% of project total? 
5). If you are new to this do not power it on until a qualified person has reviewed your work
6). Be careful poking around the thing, treat every cap as fully charged etc

Seeing that the demand for these amps is high and that the retail versions are going to be stratospherically high in cost, many will want to make a go at it.  This is doable if you use common sense and have a plan... otherwise how does that go a failure to plan is a plan to fail????  :lol: :thumb:

:rock:
Robert
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 16 May 2012, 12:52 am
Awesome, thanks Robert.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 May 2012, 02:31 am
deleted, irrelevent
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 May 2012, 09:55 pm
No, now I'm determined to build them out myself. I'll find other resources to help me through it, thanks. James if you'd like to include me in the group buy, great, if not, great.

 Thanks everyone.

You're in, no problem.

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TrungT on 16 May 2012, 10:04 pm
If CNC in-use, size and sharp won't matter.
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: *Scotty* on 16 May 2012, 10:33 pm
Quote
Does 20A IEC receptacle exist?   
Yes.
Check Mouser or Digi-Key
Scotty
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 May 2012, 11:51 pm
deleted, irrelevent
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 16 May 2012, 11:58 pm
So your layout is similar to TomS'?  I'm looking at it now and if such layout fits, it seems better for the PS to orient lengthwise front to back rather than turned 90 degrees as per Toms.  I'm still looking at it though. 

The prime reason I'm wanting the holes pre cut is I'm building six of these suckers, 3 for me, 3 for a Marine aviator to whom I owe a ton of favors.

TomS actually saw my build before he built his.  The SMPS will not go lengthwise and also incorporate the NC400 module in that siliconray chassis. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 12:35 am
deleted, irrelevent
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 17 May 2012, 12:49 am
Sorry for so many questions...what prevents the 140mm ps from fitting in the 217mm length chassis?  (RE2207) 

The issue you will have is the wiring layout.  Bruno is very specific about not running the wires under or over the modules and keeping the input wiring away from the power.  I don't have my model near me but I think it would be hard to do otherwise in that chassis. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 01:09 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62342)

TomS' build above, not mine (yet). 

OK...on a table I connected the ps and amp with the umbilical cord.  Indeed, cord is an integral component regarding placement. 

In Tom's build the quick-disconnects on the IEC take up space.  I'm estimating that soldering might free up space to turn the ps 90 degrees, which would appear to make the mains wire shorter...but in turn, the length of the umbilical forces the amp farther from the rear panel thus increasing the length of the input and speaker cables....meaning the bottom line, obviously, is no need to reinvent the wheel, after all...what a surprise.  Pick your poison: longer mains/shorter input/speaker or vice versa.  Actually, thinking about it, the former has one longer/two shorter, which intuitively seems ideal. 

Nothing changes from above with a longer chassis because of the fixed length of the umbilical cord, which determines the relationship between the two pcb. 

Seeing these up close and personal and putting them in their proper audio perspective (see the reviews) gives one an intimate view of Bruno's impact in high-end audio amplifiers.

Can't wait to hear Thorell's best arch tops and flat tops through this, and my friend's dozen + basses of every stripe including pre-war classic Italian double bass.         
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 01:30 am
deleted, irrelevent
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 01:34 am
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 17 May 2012, 01:35 am
I did end up soldering the IEC connections once I determined that everything played nice. I also strapped the 2 AC wires to the side of the case as far away from the power as I could get it. This is really the only logical layout in that case which does not violate the guidelines provided. Otherwise you'd need to re-terminate the cable, which just wasn't worth the effort to me.

I used plain old crimped ring terminals, bent 90 degrees, on top of the speaker connections (13g). Works fine.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 01:43 am
(http://apexjr.com/images/5WAYBPSTGLD1.jpg)

$4.59/pr (unknown shipping), thanks Jason for finding these.  I like em, if group buyers find these acceptable.  I like the big hole for bare tinned wire, and they seem rugged enough, also like the solder well, and the shorter length seems better than the opposite. 

Jason, do they seem pretty rugged/durable?  I also like that a foreign object landing across them won't short.   
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 17 May 2012, 01:51 am
Jason, do they seem pretty rugged/durable?  I also like that a foreign object landing across them won't short.   
Yes, very nice actuallly.  I had a bunch of CPBP and chose these instead. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 01:51 am
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 17 May 2012, 03:45 am
If we use power cons then we can't use a power cable with a normal end on it?
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 17 May 2012, 04:22 am
(http://apexjr.com/images/5WAYBPSTGLD1.jpg)

$4.59/pr (unknown shipping), thanks Jason for finding these.  I like em, if group buyers find these acceptable.  I like the big hole for bare tinned wire, and they seem rugged enough, also like the solder well, and the shorter length seems better than the opposite. 

Jason, do they seem pretty rugged/durable?  I also like that a foreign object landing across them won't short.   

I have those on my GR-Insignia speakers and they do the job but I really love the Virtue propeller type on my amp though. You get a much more snug connection.

This is the type, of course, they're much more expensive: http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/propeller-post-binding-posts/

 Not sure it makes any difference though, and the ones you chose will be just fine.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 05:03 am
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 17 May 2012, 01:25 pm
Thanks James,
I'll vote IEC.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: JDUBS on 17 May 2012, 01:48 pm
I vote PowerCon.  IECs are horrible (from a connection perspective) in comparison.

-Jim
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: orientalexpress on 17 May 2012, 02:19 pm
I go with IEC.


lapsan
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 05:09 pm
Tastes great! (PowerCon)...Less filling! (IEC)........ :lol:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: santacore on 17 May 2012, 05:14 pm
I like the idea of the PowerCon, but don't really want to re-terminate my high end cables in order to use this case. So I guess I vote for IEC, to keep it convenient.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 05:31 pm
deleterious, detritus, delete! 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 09:34 pm
OK, so after all the above verbiage, surprise!  Current plan is to replicate TomS' build below (similar to jtwrace in same chassis).

I'll draw chassis ID on graph paper, specifying exact locations and dimensions ASAP for member TrungT's gracious CAD work.  I must order binding posts to measure chassis insulators for holes. 

Meanwhile, as soon as we all agree I'll forward specs to Mike for cutting cost (hopefully free but no promises).  BTW, last I looked HT CoZ had only one orphan mono chassis so it's this or dust off your drill press.

Again: larger chassis dimensions change nothing.  PCB relationship is fixed by umbilical cord (shown) length and flexibility or lack thereof.  It's quite stiff and even more so after twisting and tightly fixed with wire ties.  Bruno is fond of the twist, as in wire, not the dance, though he may also like the dance, I don't know.     

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62342)

1. Seven small round base holes, diameter TBD (3 amp, 4 ps)
2. One IEC receptacle far right looking from rear
3. Two holes for aforementioned binding posts, centered horizontally, about 1/3rd from top vertically (leaves room for me to install a second set for bi-wire, which I presume no one else wants but please advise).  What horizontal spacing between black/red?  3/4" for dual banana seems appropriate even though I much prefer tinned wire in the post hole over any banana. 
4. One XLR female chassis jack far left looking from rear

11 holes total if Mike is reading this. 

Specify when ordering/paying: aluminum face no extra charge or add $5 for black face (presuming Mike allows mixed order).

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 17 May 2012, 09:41 pm
You might consider an nAMPON switch between the XLR and binding posts. Not shown on that pic, but mine has them now ;-)
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 09:47 pm
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: santacore on 17 May 2012, 09:58 pm
Sounds great James, thanks for all the work on this.

John
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 17 May 2012, 09:58 pm
Tom,
Would you kindly explain and/or diagram the SPST switch and it's purpose?  Sorry, if I understood it earlier I forgot... :scratch:
It puts the amp into a standby mode. Basically, input signal does not flow to the output. I use it as a pseudo mute to change cables, left/right tests, etc. When you put a big AC connector in the switched IEC the AC rocker is a little hard to get to.

Wiring is just nAMPON wire (black) from the 4-pin input connector to the switch. The other side of the switch goes to ground. Switching to ground enables the amp.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 17 May 2012, 10:30 pm
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 17 May 2012, 11:02 pm
Mute switch is not necessary - don't want.

We can use our own binding posts?  you are just drilling the holes, not using the Apex in all of the chassis - right?

Thanks for all your work James.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 17 May 2012, 11:10 pm
I'll measure insulator diameter (Apex did not know).

10mm if you want exact or 25/64".  This is what mine were and what the program is made for. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 17 May 2012, 11:21 pm
I will post pics tomorrow of the Apex binding posts with measurements....
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: HT cOz on 17 May 2012, 11:24 pm
BTW, last I looked HT CoZ had only one orphan mono chassis so it's this or dust off your drill press.

No worries mate, I will have dual mono's available within a few weeks at roughly your two chassis plus shipping cost.  The trip from the Midwest "their birth location" is pretty quick too.   :thumb:

 :rock: :rock:
Robert
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 18 May 2012, 02:12 am
Thanks Tom. 

I ordered a dozen binding posts from Apex in CA.  Upon arrival I'll measure insulator diameter (Apex did not know).  Apex has "maybe three or four hundred pairs" remaining.  Apex adds 3% for CC, takes phone orders, and adds service fee "a little over the shipping fee."

I'm leaning against the mute switch function.

Tom: what is estimated minimum wait time after unplugging AC mains to plug/unplug the XLR with no damage risk to amp/speakers?

Buyer's note: you require either interconnect with XLR male in-line plug termination (on load side, wired per Ncore amp note/diagram) or female RCA to XLR male adapter.
Normally the relay shuts off in a couple of seconds, but don't take my word on when it's "safe" because I don't know.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 18 May 2012, 02:51 am
deleted
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 18 May 2012, 11:14 am
James

Here are the pics showing the insulator size on the Apex Jr. Short Binding Posts.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62740)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62741)
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 18 May 2012, 04:55 pm
Jason,
Thanks a ton.  You removed the last hurdle, as long as the other items have opening dimensions online, which I presume to be the "case" (as in "chassis"...no pun intended). 

I hope to have it sorted to forward to TrungT by tonight. 

What amp do you use now whilst other lucky members bask in the glory of your own Ncore mono blocks on tour?  I thought of pushing my/our luck in asking for the screw hole center locations under the base, but then realized you are as "Ncoreless" as am I (I have the amps but not assembled...I'll order connectors to hear them well before the chassis arrive). 

On a completely unrelated note: I can not more highly recommend new-to-me Caffe Ibis Triple Certified Organic whole coffee beans, Ibis Dark Roast.  Smooth, strong, and dreamy caffeine effect.         
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 18 May 2012, 04:59 pm
what amp do you use now whilst other lucky members bask in the glory of your own Ncore mono blocks on tour?  I thought of pushing my/our luck in asking for the screw hole center locations under the base, but then realized you have no amps.   
 
I have a LOW TIM Leach that I've been using but my new NCores should show up next week.  Hopefully. 

The NC400 & SMPS600 drawings are here http://www.hypex.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=56
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 18 May 2012, 05:46 pm
Recap: 15 Holes Total

Base: Seven (3 amp, 4 ps)
Rear: Eight, L to R from rear: XLR + 2 fasteners, two binding post, IEC + 2 fasteners

Everyone in please post quantity. 

Cost:
Blank chassis black body: $49 silver face or $54 black face
Mike's cutting fee TBD, higher quantity = less per unit
Shipping quantity discount, China to me in N. Utah

I'll post above invoice.
Unit cost = above invoice/quantity.
Buyer prepays unit cost x quantity.
Prepay bank check or +3% Paypal.  (Someone suggested "gift" Paypal saves me 3% but that's inconsistent with accounting practice...if necessary, please see accounting definition of gift).
           
Late fee due after chassis arrive, me shipping from Utah to you: I'll weigh each chassis on certified scale with your address and email each buyer the shipping fee printed on the shipping label, for commercial Endicia 3rd party USPS Parcel Post.  Same as above: bank check and wait to clear or +3% Paypal to ship same business day received by 15:00 hours MDT, Zulu -6 hours.   

Thanks for everyone's patience. 

As soon as I get the quantity I'll forward to Mike for his quote. 



Me: 6 chassis
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 18 May 2012, 07:29 pm
Bill - 2 silver chassis for monoblocks

Thanks Jim for all your work,
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 19 May 2012, 04:45 am
I have six new Apex Jr. short gold plated binding posts for sale for same price I just paid, $4.29/pr.  I ordered 12 pairs expecting to install two pairs per amp, but decided one pair is adequate.

Edit Saturday: Received the Apex Jr. binding posts...I've been doing this for decades...these are similar quality vs. Parts Express posts for twice the cost...best post value I've seen.


Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: macrojack on 19 May 2012, 07:00 pm
James - I'll take two black cases and two pairs of the Apex Jr. binding posts.

Is there an ordering deadline? An order date? An ETA?

Are the holes for XLR and IEC standard or do we need to know which specific parts the holes will accommodate?

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 20 May 2012, 05:56 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62798)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62801)


Not pretty but here it is.  Note the rear panel is inside view: invert L to R for outside view, XLR left, IEC right.  I'll forward this link to TrungT.

XLR: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=092-037  also silver contacts available otherwise identical...gold vs. silver: IMO the gold is a little thicker and smoother, the silver a bit lighter and more detailed, my system is about dead neutral, the amp being digital, I ordered gold.  If it was a tube amp I'd lean silver, but as Sean says on TV show Psyche, "I've heard it both ways..."

IEC: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=090-442  only 10A (certification not specified), but other similar receptacle was rated either 10A or 15A depending on the certification type, so this may be a 15A too.   

See above for Apex Jr. short gold insulated binding posts, which are, IMHO, great value, well above average quality, and sturdy. 

I twisted and tied the amp/PS umbilical and this layout seems to provide the greatest distance between the AC mains input on the top and the input way down on the bottom, the speaker binding posts in the middle.

As you can see, one pair of binding posts.  Open to suggestions for any changes.

Including two fastener holes each for XLR and IEC = 15 sum total.   
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TrungT on 20 May 2012, 06:05 am
You are killing me with metric and standard.
 :wink:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 20 May 2012, 06:14 am
Sure, I'll redo it.  Just say the word.

Do you think Mike is OK with "inside" vs. "outside" panel dimensions? 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TrungT on 20 May 2012, 06:26 am
Outside dimensions is most use.
If you stick with one measurement system would be great, I don't have to manually convert.
Standard is defaut on CAD though.
The drawing look good though.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 20 May 2012, 06:43 am
Outside dimensions is most use.
If you stick with one measurement system would be great, I don't have to manually convert.
Standard is defaut on CAD though.
The drawing look good though.

Should I redo all in metric or inch decimal? 

I'll redo with outer dimensions and repost tomorrow. 

Compared to TomS', the amp on mine is lower (closer to the closest side panel).  Yes, it's quite close to the the side panel, but it's well secured with three M3 screws, and this placement increases distance to the AC mains wire, which Bruno suggests is a good idea in the instructions.

FYI: I twisted and plastic-tied one amp/PS umbilical cord, connected the amp and PS, and lay both pieces on the graph paper with outline of ID.  I got the XLR specs from the Neutrik website.  I got the IEC specs from Parts Express.  Jason posted binding post caliper and I confirmed the insulator grommet diameter.

I request and suggest buyers confirm my dimensions at the Neutrik and Parts Express websites. 




A 1-lb, kick-butt, affordable, super-efficient, audiophile mono block, that will hopefully last a few decades or more.  Can you beat that?               
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: orientalexpress on 20 May 2012, 11:50 am
2 black plate and 2 apex jr binding post for me,if u could include 2 IEC and 2 XLR in your group buy also ,that would be great.Thank you for doing this


lapsan
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: bhakti on 20 May 2012, 04:53 pm
I would love two chassis with the silver face plate and two pairs of the Apex Jr. posts.

Thank you!!
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: santacore on 20 May 2012, 08:46 pm
I'm still in for 2, preferably with silver face. Thanks.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 20 May 2012, 09:42 pm
OK, good news, looks like we're up to about 15 or 16...Mike's cutting fee should be minimal, pray for zero...I'll send Mike the quantity and my diagram.  I'll also request ETA after he gets the CAD.  After he replies I'll quote him and post itemized prices for chassis, cutting, delivery to Logan UT, and lead time to ship.

It just now occurred to me that we could all just commit to individually purchase from Mike, but if someone doesn't pull through to achieve the magic minimum number guaranteed, we're all kind of in limbo...so it still seems ideal for all to prepay me so I can run away with your money  :lol: make one order meeting the minimum quantity. 

I'd appreciate a link to reliable (preferably free) conversion software, pdf to jpg.   


 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: genjamon on 21 May 2012, 03:44 pm
Does the length of the run between IEC and AC input on the power supply matter in reducing internal RF or noise?  If it does, why not situate the power supply along the side, instead of along the front of the chassis?

I'm considering this option, but the Neutrik power connector gives me pause - not sure I want to get new power cords.  Also  not sure I want monoblocks, as I'm a little short on direct wall plugins for an extra power cord.  Still, it's an attractive group buy situation.



(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62798)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62801)


Not pretty but here it is.  Note the rear panel is inside view: invert L to R for outside view, XLR left, IEC right.  I'll forward this link to TrungT.

XLR: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=092-037  also silver contacts available otherwise identical...gold vs. silver: IMO the gold is a little thicker and smoother, the silver a bit lighter and more detailed, my system is about dead neutral, the amp being digital, I ordered gold.  If it was a tube amp I'd lean silver, but as Sean says on TV show Psyche, "I've heard it both ways..."

IEC: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=090-442  only 10A (certification not specified), but other similar receptacle was rated either 10A or 15A depending on the certification type, so this may be a 15A too.   

See above for Apex Jr. short gold insulated binding posts, which are, IMHO, great value, well above average quality, and sturdy. 

I twisted and tied the amp/PS umbilical and this layout seems to provide the greatest distance between the AC mains input on the top and the input way down on the bottom, the speaker binding posts in the middle.

As you can see, one pair of binding posts.  Open to suggestions for any changes.

Including two fastener holes each for XLR and IEC = 15 sum total.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 04:04 pm
If the left connector is the IEC I think you're making a mistake putting it in that location.  I'd put it to the far right and the XLR where the IEC is.  This keeps the power wires away from the NC400 as Bruno suggests. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 May 2012, 04:12 pm
Does the length of the run between IEC and AC input on the power supply matter in reducing internal RF or noise? 

Please consider multiple variables.  Possibly you missed this below, or possibly I deleted it by accident to minimize clutter (sorry if the latter).  Per Bruno the umbilical cord should not go under nor over pcb and IIRC audio input should not cross AC mains nor umbilical cord.  TomS twisted and tied the cord, which seems smart.  The cord can not be shortened.  The above limitations more or less fixes the physical relationship between the two pcb to my diagram.

If pcb swap L/R relationships, and both swivel 90 degrees clockwise, umbilical cord crosses both audio input and speaker output.     

Quote
If it does, why not situate the power supply along the side, instead of along the front of the chassis?

Current design has maximum spacing between AC mains input (longer, yes) and audio input and speaker outputs (both quite short).  Also, audio input and speaker cable do not cross AC mains nor umbilical cord.   



Quote
I'm considering this option, but the Neutrik power connector gives me pause - not sure I want to get new power cords. 

Negative.  No Neutrik power.  Power is standard 10A-15A IEC.  XLR is Neutrik female available in gold or silver contacts (I prefer gold but this choice is purely personal).


Quote
Also  not sure I want monoblocks, as I'm a little short on direct wall plugins for an extra power cord.  Still, it's an attractive group buy situation.

I'm torn on this too but not for lack of AC receptacles in this new construction.  This setup is pure analog Trinaural processor based (it's almost impossible to accept stereo's "phantom center" after listening to proper Trinaural).  The center channel is most critical, while the L/R can be viewed as "effects".  I this case, a 3-ch amp would site the same distance from the C speaker as 3 mono blocks. 

But then...this is likely a final purchase for me, and these are killer amps.  And I want to tote these around to A-B with other amps, plus my pro musician friends want to hear it.  Plus, in the end, even in my system the L/R channels will likely perform audibly better with mono blocks sited next to the speakers.  Finally, stereo and 3-channel amps have unique wiring problems.  So that's why I decided on the extra clutter.   
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: genjamon on 21 May 2012, 04:13 pm
I initially thought that, too, but then realized it was drawn from the perspective of the INSIDE of the chassis.  It might be a counterintuitive drawing approach for some - perhaps many of us - given our typical vantage point of looking from the outside of the chassis.  I'm not sure what standard practice is - I'm a total newbie to DIY or design.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 04:16 pm
TomS twisted and tied the cord, which seems smart. 
This is recommended by Hypex and is in the data sheet. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: genjamon on 21 May 2012, 04:20 pm
Maybe you could label on your drawing where each of the connection points are on the modules?  When I've looked at the data sheets for the SMPS and the NC400, it looked to me like you could avoid any wires crossing each other or going under or over pcb's with what I suggested.  Maybe I'm not visualizing the location of the connection points the same as you are.

Please consider multiple variables.  Possibly you missed this below, or possibly I deleted it by accident to minimize clutter (sorry if the latter).  Per Bruno the umbilical cord should not go under nor over pcb and IIRC audio input should not cross AC mains nor umbilical cord.  TomS twisted and tied the cord, which seems smart.  The cord can not be shortened.  The above limitations more or less fixes the physical relationship between the two pcb to my diagram.

If pcb swap L/R relationships, and both swivel 90 degrees clockwise, umbilical cord crosses both audio input and speaker output.     

Current design has maximum spacing between AC mains input (longer, yes) and audio input and speaker outputs (both quite short).  Also, audio input and speaker cable do not cross AC mains nor umbilical cord.   



Negative.  No Neutrik power.  Power is standard 10A-15A IEC.  XLR is Neutrik female available in gold or silver contacts (I prefer gold but this choice is purely personal).


I'm torn on this too but not for lack of AC receptacles in this new construction.  This setup is pure analog Trinaural processor based (it's almost impossible to accept stereo's "phantom center" after listening to proper Trinaural).  The center channel is most critical, while the L/R can be viewed as "effects".  I this case, a 3-ch amp would site the same distance from the C speaker as 3 mono blocks. 

But then...this is likely a final purchase for me, and these are killer amps.  And I want to tote these around to A-B with other amps, plus my pro musician friends want to hear it.  Plus, in the end, even in my system the L/R channels will likely perform audibly better with mono blocks sited next to the speakers.  Finally, stereo and 3-channel amps have unique wiring problems.  So that's why I decided on the extra clutter.   
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 21 May 2012, 05:16 pm
labeling would be a great addition,
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 05:32 pm
labeling would be a great addition,
This is how I did mine:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62838)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62839)
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 May 2012, 06:27 pm
Jason,
I presume your pcb layout is similar to TomS'?

Your binding post/XLR positions are opposite mine.  Looking at it again, yours seem better because of shorter XLR to amp audio input.  I'll follow your plan. 

Who did your stencil?  It looks great.   

 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 06:30 pm
Can you post image of pcb layout?
What PCB?

Quote
Who did your stencil?  It looks great. 
Me, thanks.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 May 2012, 06:32 pm
Sorry, pcb = amp/ps boards. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 06:35 pm
Sorry, pcb = amp/ps boards.
I'll check later to see if they're on the other computer.  I don't know if I took any.  TomS' is very similar to mine as I was the first to use this case.  The only difference insdie is that my NC400 is square to the SMPS.  That's really it.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 21 May 2012, 06:47 pm
Would it not make sense to mount the speaker binding posts vertically rather than horizontally?

I guess it depends if you have your amps on a higher shelf (horizontally makes sense then) or on the floor like I do, where vertically makes sense.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 06:49 pm
Would it not make sense to mount the speaker binding posts vertically rather than horizontally?
Personally I'm not crazy about it like that.  The cables don't lay flat usually.  Not really that big of a deal though.  If you were going to run two pairs for bi-wire then yes, I'd do it as you suggest.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 21 May 2012, 06:50 pm
I'll check later to see if they're on the other computer.  I don't know if I took any.  TomS' is very similar to mine as I was the first to use this case.  The only difference insdie is that my NC400 is square to the SMPS.  That's really it.
I did switch the XLR and posts around as I just wanted the input signal as far from power as I could get. Otherwise pretty much the same.

I mounted the posts horizontal as they are next to my speakers (no rack) and I didn't want the wires to have to cross over other stuff side to side. Sometimes squeezing in large spades is a challenge next to an IEC or XLR.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 21 May 2012, 06:53 pm
I did switch the XLR and posts around as I just wanted the input signal as far from power as I could get. Otherwise pretty much the same.

I mounted the posts horizontal as they are next to my speakers (no rack) and I didn't want the wires to have to cross over other stuff side to side. Sometimes squeezing in large spades is a challenge next to an IEC or XLR.
Right.  I was refering to the sketch above on the rear panel layout. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 May 2012, 09:05 pm
...TomS' is very similar to mine as I was the first to use this case.  The only difference insdie is that my NC400 is square to the SMPS.  That's really it.

Jason,
Yes, that is what I thought above.  Comparing my diagram to TomS' image, my amp is further south for a shorter audio input to the XLR (XLR located @ south-east corner of my base diagram or left-most on my rear panel diagram).


Builders/buyers:
Coming new base diagram will display audio input wire and speaker cable.  The answer to the following question determines whether the XLR locates left and the binding posts locate center (looking at rear panel of assembled amp) or vice versa:

What's better and why: shorter audio input/longer speaker cable or vice versa?     
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 May 2012, 03:32 am
Mike, Silicon Ray emailed:

MOQ 20 pieces
Cutting fee $10ea
OK to mix black/silver faces, no up-charge for black face (normally +$5)

What number are we up to?
I suggest possibly someone post note @ DIY to increase the quantity
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 May 2012, 03:35 am
I emailed Mike @ Silicon Ray the number of cuts.  He replied:

MOQ 20 pieces
Cutting fee $10ea chassis, $49 + $10 = $59 + shipping to me, me to you
OK to mix black/silver faces, no up-charge for black face (normally +$5)

What number are we up to?
Maybe post @ DIY to increase quantity? 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: orientalexpress on 22 May 2012, 01:33 pm
if He's charge $10.00 for cutting,how much are we saving here for the group buy?


lapsan
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 22 May 2012, 03:14 pm
I'm still in, and glad I don't have to drill the holes myself!
2 silver chassis for me,  :D
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 May 2012, 03:36 pm
if He's charge $10.00 for cutting,how much are we saving here for the group buy?


lapsan

If anyone knows of any precut CAD/CNC mono Ncore chassis please post here so readers including me can compare apples to apples, and decide where/how to spend our money.  AFAIK it's this chassis vs. cut your own and you'll save a few dollars.  The IEC hole is rectangular, and I'm not interested in cutting six such holes and 90 holes total (six chassis x 15 holes each). 

HI CoZ sold all his mono chassis.  I'm saving more money than others because I'm buying six chassis, but others benefit because I contribute 30% toward the MOQ (industry term for "Minimum Order Quantity") of 20. 

I'll get the total shipping cost for 20 pieces to me.  I'll also get the weight per chassis, then I'll get an actual shipping cost from me to a specific address (48 state) and thereafter post my shipping cost.

Then we'll have one hypothetical total cost for two chassis to one specific address (your address may be slightly different). 

     

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 May 2012, 04:30 pm
OK...SR is closed now...I proceeded through checkout for 20 chassis, all silver face (Mike said no $5 up-charge for black faces):

Chassis $49
Shipping each to me $20
Subtotal $69 x 20 = $1380
One time SR $10 handling fee = $1390/20 = 69.50 ea
Add $10ea for cutting, $79.50
Add estimate $10ea shipping from me to you, $89.50, $179/pr (this is not your exact final cost...rather than $10 estimate as above you'll prepay me the amount printed on your shipping label which you'll confirm when it arrives)

AFAIK Mike @ SR requires single order, MOQ 20, for $10 per chassis cutting fee.

I estimate $200-$300 depending on geographic area for CAD/CNC cutting. 

Above two chassis delivered uncut to my Utah zip code 84332:
Silver face $49 + 20 = 69ea, $138/pair + 10 SR handling = 148/pr...black face + 10/pr = $158/pair, but $10 fee varies depending on zip code.

So we pay about $30/pair more for fully cut chassis vs. $200-300 for local service (estimate).       

I'm happy to spend less if possible, please post here. 

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mr_bill on 22 May 2012, 07:39 pm
Do you want our addresses sent to you now?
I sent mine to your email address.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: genjamon on 22 May 2012, 07:45 pm
Yesterday I checked out the www.FrontPanelExpress.com option TomS mentioned over on the chassis parts thread.  It has a price estimator built into the free design software you download.  I designed a rudimentary back plate with the various holes and dimensions outlined on James's hand-drawn sketch.  It didn't have the holes in exactly the same places, as I didn't have a lot of time to perfect the design. 

If you provide the plate, they would charge about $20 for cutting all the holes in one plate - $40 for two.  You can also just give them the dimensions of the plate, and they will make a new plate and design it with all the right holes.  For that, it was $26 per plate.  Based on this, it seems like you could do a lot better than $200-300 with alternative options.  Front Panel Express might also do bulk discounts.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 22 May 2012, 07:53 pm
Or just get a Coz chassis and be done.  I bet he would make you guys a deal if you pre pay for 20 pcs....
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 May 2012, 08:17 pm
Or just get a Coz chassis and be done.  I bet he would make you guys a deal if you pre pay for 20 pcs....

He's offline but I'll PM him now.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 May 2012, 08:36 pm
Yesterday I checked out the www.FrontPanelExpress.com option TomS mentioned over on the chassis parts thread.  It has a price estimator built into the free design software you download.  I designed a rudimentary back plate with the various holes and dimensions outlined on James's hand-drawn sketch.  It didn't have the holes in exactly the same places, as I didn't have a lot of time to perfect the design. 

If you provide the plate, they would charge about $20 for cutting all the holes in one plate - $40 for two.  You can also just give them the dimensions of the plate, and they will make a new plate and design it with all the right holes.  For that, it was $26 per plate.  Based on this, it seems like you could do a lot better than $200-300 with alternative options.  Front Panel Express might also do bulk discounts.

Thanks for posting this option. 

SR charges $10ea for cutting.  So if someone else cuts for free, we save $10ea, right? 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 May 2012, 08:39 pm
Do you want our addresses sent to you now?
I sent mine to your email address.

No.

Maybe everyone in should email me at the link under my name.  In the subject line type "chassis" followed by numeric value (quantity desired) and I'll get the current total. 

Sorry, the new drawing is coming today, hopefully.

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 22 May 2012, 10:04 pm
Wow, Mike's first coffee cup in China is early! 

He just discounted $5ea off the normal $20ea shipping, for net $15ea.  So discount $5 off each chassis.

Waiting for Mike's reply for inside our outside chassis view diagram before I re-draw and post.   
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: PeteG on 23 May 2012, 12:05 am
Or just get a Coz chassis and be done.  I bet he would make you guys a deal if you pre pay for 20 pcs....

+1  :thumb:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 23 May 2012, 12:24 am
CoZ' unedited reply to my cost query for MOQ 20 mono chassis:

Quote
"Hey James,

I'm on vacation in the Caribbean until Friday. I can check when I get back in pocket. It is not fast though probably 6 weeks. From order date.

Thanks
Robert

Consider "not fast...probably...from order date".  I suppose we'd order separately, meaning nothing starts, and price increases (above whatever he eventually quotes) if short MOQ 20.  Just sayin'.       

But Robert added that he'd pay for and take us with him on his next vacation... :lol:

Also...I turned the PS and amp 90 degrees clockwise.  Surprisingly this seems ideal.  Photo coming.  AC mains about 2" long (was 8-10").  Audio input and speaker cable about 4" each. 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 23 May 2012, 03:00 am
I'm convinced (for now  :lol:) this layout is ideal in this chassis.  The only wire not shown is the speaker cable from amp (two gold Phillips screws just above the audio input jack) to binding posts (mount vertical, centers spaced 40mm).


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62913)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62914)


 

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: genjamon on 23 May 2012, 03:21 am
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: santacore on 23 May 2012, 05:50 am
That looks great James!
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Rclark on 23 May 2012, 05:58 am

 Ah my first monoblocks. Loving those pics.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 23 May 2012, 05:43 pm
Yeah, this layout makes much more sense, sorry I didn't try it earlier...Mike said he prefers "OD" so I'll re-draw and post later after I get some exercise...ribs in the oven for lunch, yum!
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 23 May 2012, 06:20 pm
The output wires are going to be very close to the umbilical from the NC400 > SMPS.  Not so sure I would do that...
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 23 May 2012, 06:57 pm
The output wires are going to be very close to the umbilical from the NC400 > SMPS.  Not so sure I would do that...
+1

From the data sheet:

12.1 Cable dressing
The NC400 module has exceedingly low distortion. This makes it very easy for extraneous causes to
add much more distortion and colouration than the amplifier itself. The first major cause of such
distortion is direct magnetic crosstalk from the supply cable into the audio input or the loudspeaker
output. This is minimized in several ways:
• Run the audio and power supply cables away from each other.
• Tie-wrap the supply cable to form a tight bunch.
• Tightly twist all loudspeaker cabling inside the chassis.


Why take a chance when you have a better option that works?
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 23 May 2012, 07:44 pm
Got it...thanks, you saved me from finding this in the manual, which I planned to do...
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 24 May 2012, 12:43 am
Tom and Jason:
The last item...IIRC, on the rear panel, viewed from the rear, Jason sited binding posts approximately center and the XLR far left, while Tom chose the opposite. 

The center terminal has the shorter wire, the far left terminal wire is a bit longer.  No wires cross any others in this overall layout.   

I can't decide which seems better.  On what did you base your choices?

Thanks a ton for your help. 

Buyers:
Sorry this took longer than expected.   

I'll post the final base drawing (outside view) in a few minutes.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: TomS on 24 May 2012, 01:24 am
Either one is fine. I just wanted the lowest level signal (inputs) furthest from the power bundle. It just looked like in your layout the BP's would be right on top of the power bundle and wires aligned the same direction.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: mjock3 on 24 May 2012, 08:27 pm
What PCB?
Me, thanks.

If you don't mind, how does one do stenciling?

Thanks
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: jtwrace on 24 May 2012, 08:44 pm
If you don't mind, how does one do stenciling?

Thanks

Laser Engraver
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: roscoeiii on 24 May 2012, 08:52 pm
Laser Engraver

Yup, that'll work.
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 24 May 2012, 09:44 pm
Rear panel on this image: single XLR audio input at bottom, two binding posts vertically spaced 40mm around center.  I chose this because the audio input wires are easier to bend back to the bottom corner vs. the speaker cables. 

Rear panel diagram coming later today. 

This is final.  If Jason OK's I propose to start a new thread after posting the rear panel with total cost including final delivery, only authorized reply is "In, quantity X, faceplate black or silver" (same price), no voting on anything-period, black chassis only.

Mike said white lazer etching over black only $10 if you have a logo or whatever.  Note: white etched on silver face is barely visible.  Hypex said OK to etch "Ncore" logo as long as Ncore amp is inside!

I wait for Mike to email shipping weight per chassis to better estimate shipping weight from me to you.  I'll contribute at least $10ea x 6 ($60) toward total cost as if I was also subject to the final delivery fee. 

On the one hand it seems to have taken much longer than expected to consider placement for two boards (one only 3.5" round), AC, input, and output.  Frankly at first this wasn't much fun.  But I'm happy with the final results now and that brings a sense of satisfaction and some accomplishment.  As long as the holes are placed correctly I think we'll all be pretty happy with this.  I'm convinced placement is ideal.     


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63159)


We're deeply indebted to Jason, TomS, and JohnR for the forum's help in this project.  Good on 'em!   :thumb:
 
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Ambiant on 26 May 2012, 12:32 pm
Hi James,

I've recently stumbled upon this site and read your thread with interest. I might fancy a couple myself. Just a couple of questions:

Has the layout changed again, I thought the favourite was now the one in reply #136; seems to make the most sense to me...

I live in Switzerland so can you ask Mike if he would send 2 of them directly to me? It whould work out cheaper and be less hassle for you.

What is the situation with the lazer engraving; what will it cost and can one have it without the white powder, i.e. just the engraving?

Cheers,
Anthony

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 27 May 2012, 03:51 am
Hi James,

I've recently stumbled upon this site and read your thread with interest. I might fancy a couple myself. Just a couple of questions:

Has the layout changed again, I thought the favourite was now the one in reply #136; seems to make the most sense to me...

Anthony,
Thanks for your interest. 

Drawing post #136: Yes, the AC mains input and XLR music input are shorter than above (especially the AC mains).  But the speaker cable output is much closer to, and worse could run parallel to, the PS-to-amp umbilical cord.  Hypex instruct users to generally avoid this situation.  Intuitively #136 seems better than above but it's actually worse. 

I live in Switzerland so can you ask Mike if he would send 2 of them directly to me? It whould work out cheaper and be less hassle for you.

Yes, I'll ask Mike as soon as TrungT submits me the CAD file so I can submit it to Mike. 

Quote
What is the situation with the lazer engraving; what will it cost and can one have it without the white powder, i.e. just the engraving? 

Again, I'll ask Mike.  $10 for sample he sent as email attachment, large and rather gaudy font for the chassis model number. 

Curious if you don't mind me asking: What do you consider etching? 

regards,
James
Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: Ambiant on 27 May 2012, 09:52 am
Hi James,

thanks fro the quick reply!

yup I know what you mean with the wires; definately doesn't look so good in 2D, but it's a 3D build and if you put the speaker posts at the top of the enclosure it will look like Mike's (mgalusha) build from the audio circle - nice picture here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105527.0

In this case the wires don't intersect. They get close to each other, as they will in any layout because of the proximity of the connections on the NC400 itself. Anyhow after that the speaker wires and the umbilical cord dissapear at 90 degrees to each other. Where do the connects and wires go on your drawing?

For the engraving I was going to put a little logo on it; I used to run a radio show on Kiss FM in Berlin called Confusion Control and have made a little logo for it - not sure which one to use, what do you think?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63089)

or

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63090)

I think I prefer the top one. It seems like $ 10 is great for the engraving, but as you said yourself the sample showed does look gaudy. I'd go for black and don't want the logo to shine out like that. A really dark blue would be nice, but otherwise it would be OK without any colour so you don't notice the logo until you go up close.

Just so you know I'm still playing around with the idea of sticking both NC400 into one box. If the layout is done carefully so there is no interference are you still more likely to get a better sound using mono blocks, or is it more one of those aesthetic things?

This is what I'd probably do with a one-box solution, although your bulk purchase is tempting too :?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=63091)

Of course if I only use one PS then I don't even get the umbilical and AC wires crossing and the designer said somewhere online that he thinks apart from the max power output it should make any sonic difference, although I know a few people here think it does, much as he prophesied. That would be using a Galaxy Maggiorato (23 X 23 cm) as per here:

http://www.modushop.biz/ecommerce/cat154_l2.php?n=1

Cheers,
Anthony

Title: Re: Mono chassis $49 + shipping
Post by: James Romeyn on 28 May 2012, 04:35 am
Anthony,

As Sean of TV Show Psyche often says, "I've seen it both ways".  I appreciate very much HT CoZ's layout choice and mgalusha knows what he's doing.  In seeing the two boards laid out both ways in person, with all cords connected on the boards, in the area of the base panel, I chose the later design and my subjective evaluation is it's more consistent with Hypex' notes.  I'm certain others might disagree and that's fine.   

Nice graphic design!