AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: ernest787 on 3 Apr 2013, 06:52 pm
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Hi guys. I'm new to the audiophile hobby and setting up my first system that will be used exclusively for music and a majority of that will be vinyl listening.
That said, I just purchased a pair of SAlk song towers with RT and a "10 tc sub
I now need to purchase the rest of the components but my head is starting to spin lol
I don't have a huge budget left right now so I think I'm going to have to make some sig compromises initially and then upgrade down the road.
I'm thinking of purchasing a Crown XLS 2000 for the amp but am torn on the preamp.
Everyone is tellin me the emotivia pre amp shouldn't be paired with the rest of the system. After purchasing everything else i don't want to spend more than 1k on the pre amp.
Any advice on current or even used pre amps I can get in that price range that would serve me well for the next year or two till I could afford to spend more on a pre amp?
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A nice, yet inexpensive way to enjoy 2 channel analog would be something like the Pioneer A-20 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Amplifiers/A-20).
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Maybe this should fit the bill.
parasound2100 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC2100)
Plus this used amp just posted here.
AVA240 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115613.msg1209165;topicseen#new).
This should be a very capable combo at a minimal budget. :thumb:
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I'm going to have to disagree with "everyone" and say that the Emotiva preamp (the new XSP-1) is a great, preamp at any price, plus it has a 30-day trial period. If 1k is your budget I would look at it very hard before passing it up. It is true that some older Emotiva products (the UMC-1 pre/pro, or the USP-1 pre) might not have been able to get the best from the SongTowers, but the XSP-1 pre is really in a different league from the older ones. The phono stage included in it is also quite good, which can save you some money if you haven't already purchased a discrete one.
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Maybe this should fit the bill.
parasound2100 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC2100)
Plus this used amp just posted here.
AVA240 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115613.msg1209165;topicseen#new).
This should be a very capable combo at a minimal budget. :thumb:
A big +1 from me on those recommendations.
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I didn't realize emotivia does a 30 day home trial. I'm seriously considering that.
I've also been looking and have found some older audio reseach pre amps that are within budget that I'm interested in.
The benefit to the audio researxh is that I can get a hybrid that will use tubes to power the phone stage. I've always been a big fan of the tube sound. Unfortunately most of the tube pre amps are out of my current price range
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I have this for 2 yrs + now and its superlative with the SongTowers..
http://avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=140&Itemid=203
Alex
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Maybe this should fit the bill.
parasound2100 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAC2100)
Plus this used amp just posted here.
AVA240 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115613.msg1209165;topicseen#new).
This should be a very capable combo at a minimal budget. :thumb:
A big +1 from me on those recommendations.
another big +1 for that combo! :thumb:
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While the Class D Crown XLS 2000 has a lot of watts for $500 (375W/ch @ 8 ohm, 650W @ 4 ohm), outside of PA use, the main home audio use by far is for passive subwoofers.
A combo that might keep you and the Salk SongTower RTs happy for more than a few years is the Parasound 2100 preamplifier mated with the Parasound 2125 amplifier (Class AB, 125W/ch @ 8 ohm, 200W/ch @ 4 ohm).
There is one of each available used on Audiogon right now, and at the price it would be hard to go wrong. The Parasound 2100 preamp for $435 and the Parasound 2125 amp for $425 makes an $860 combo that would be hard to beat for sound, features and price.
Steve
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While the Class D Crown XLS 2000 has a lot of watts for $500 (375W/ch @ 8 ohm, 650W @ 4 ohm), outside of PA use, the main home audio use by far is for passive subwoofers.
A combo that might keep you and the Salk SongTower RTs happy for more than a few years is the Parasound 2100 preamplifier mated with the Parasound 2125 amplifier (Class AB, 125W/ch @ 8 ohm, 200W/ch @ 4 ohm).
There is one of each available used on Audiogon right now, and at the price it would be hard to go wrong. The Parasound 2100 preamp for $435 and the Parasound 2125 amp for $425 makes an $860 combo that would be hard to beat for sound, features and price.
Steve
I'm really liking this too. :thumb:
For reference I've owned 2 Parasound amps and have been very happy with them. :wink:
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I don't own the salks, but I've thought about them many times, but I just wanted to confirm that you're wanting to spend 1K just on the pre? I think you can get a little more mileage for your buck by cutting your pre budget and boosting your amp budget. I own the emotiva USP-1 and I think it's a great piece of gear. If you're up for some DIY fun you could also check out something from bottlehead for a tubed pre.
If I'm doing the math right you're looking at around 1500 for your preamp/amp combo? I think that is a pretty healthy budget and there are some great options out there; lots of options that will make your speakers shine (the parasound gear mentioned above included.)
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I thought my budget was originally ok for the pre amp and amp and then after looking around and asking I was told my budget wasn't sufficient to get quality seperates that would do the Salks justice which was initially disheartening.
But the more I read and learn I'm finding out that's not completely true.
I think I'm going to drop the crown and look at the parasound amp. Would I get better mileage and Salk sound by snagging the 2250?
I'm still wanting to get a tube pre amp if possible.
I've for my eye on an audio research sp14. I know it's older but I'm strongly leaning that direction right now. Thoughts?
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What do you want from your pre? Remote? How many inputs? Onboard phono options? Headphone capabilities? Subwoofer output/crossover? Also, are you willing to try your hand at DIY?
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I don't care too much about having a remote. I would like to have a phono stage built in if possible since this will be heavily used for vinyl. I'd be willing to buy a phono stage seperate, but again the built in is preferential. I'd like tube if possible or at least a hybrid.
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Another +1 for the Parasound 2100.
My reasoning is you already have a sub and you are a vinyl guy. It is one of very few pre's in your price range that has analog bass management for your sub. If you care about keeping digital conversions out of your analog signal path, this is a great pick.
Even if you aren't concerned about this, it is still a great value.
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hate to be that guy in this thread but here it goes:
in my experience the past year of owning various salk speakers, and various amps is that the changes were subtle.... compared to speaker or room treatments. My 600$ bass traps on my back wall blew me away compared to spending thousands of dollars switching from a older integra av amp to parasound 2250 to a ava 400r to w4s sx1000. sure my critical ear may not be as critical as some but in my opinion you got yourself a nice pair of speakers stay within your budget on the amp and pre. I was/am selling a 2250 for $500 and getting low ball offers here in san francisco for 400$, there are great used gear and prices out there. I am also a huge fan of bottlehead products. their tube pre is really inexpensive and people love them. all of the options mentioned are great suggestions. good luck
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Having owned the Parasound 2100/2250 combo, I can say with confidence to steer away from the 2125 and 2250 amps. They have a distorted sound to them that I just couldn't live with. Go to the Halo line for amps. And while the 2100 is a great preamp in general with its feature set, I think it's fairly well known to have a poor sounding phono input. I'm not a vinyl guy, but we did some comparisons at a friend's house, and the 2100 actually sounded bad. For everything else, it's pretty great.
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I fully agree on the room treatments and that will definitely be something that is done, but will have to wait a little bit. We are waiting to close on our home and then will figure out what type of treatments are needed
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Having owned the Parasound 2100/2250 combo, I can say with confidence to steer away from the 2125 and 2250 amps. They have a distorted sound to them that I just couldn't live with. Go to the Halo line for amps. And while the 2100 is a great preamp in general with its feature set, I think it's fairly well known to have a poor sounding phono input. I'm not a vinyl guy, but we did some comparisons at a friend's house, and the 2100 actually sounded bad. For everything else, it's pretty great.
Just goes to show YMMV. :green:
My Parasound 5250 sounded great with my HT2-TL (to my ears). :thumb:
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Agreed...Halo is 'upmarket' & probably better.
However I too have owned & still do own Parasound products.
I would never have described them as distorted. Neither Did Steven Stone.
In fact he described them as darn good just a tad shy of some of the best
High Resolution SS amps at the time. Mr Stone doesn't sugar coat.
But then YMMV, this hobby is all about preferences...imho
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Just so I don't continue to come off as some opinionated jerk...
The Parasound 2250 I had sounded cheap to me. I think this means it was a little thin in the midrange and there was some sort of odd distorted sound in the upper midrange/lower treble region. I had upgraded from some Emotiva gear at the time, and ended up being unhappy. It took me some time to realize the 2100 preamp was not the issue. I finally took the plunge and picked up a pair of Odyssey Audio monoblocks, and the difference in sound was very obvious.
A friend of mine has a Halo amp, and when we compared it to the Odyssey amps, they were more the same than different. I've never had an issue with the sound I get from my amps, and I know they aren't anything magical. I feel pretty strongly about the strange distorted sound of the 2250 amp. All I can say is that clarity is NOT a "preference" in my book. I always say that everything sounds good until you hear something better. Many times it's a curse when you do.
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The Synergy 240 mentioned about in this thread is an outstanding amplifier for you. In addition to the very low price for a current production amplifier, it was built in October, 2012, so there are two and a half years left on the factory parts and labor warranty, assuming that the seller is the original owner.
You can read a review of the amplifier's big brother here:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0912/audio_by_van_alstine_synergy_450.htm
The Synergy 240 is identical sounding, just lower power but plenty for your speakers.
Regards,
Frank Van Alstine
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does anyone have any experience with the Prima Luna Prologue 3?
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I've never used the Prima Luna gear, but I have used 3 different tube amplifiers with the SongTowers and have gotten excellent results each time. Currently using a Line Magnetic 845 based SET and I'm getting great dynamics and a stellar sense of ease. This speaker just presents a great look for a wide variety of amplifiers.....and tube amps are definitely in the mix.
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Again, if it were me I'd get a Parasound classic 2100 preamp and a Halo or AVA amp. FYI, though, Parasound will soon be releasing the P5 preamp, which is a Halo version of the 2100 with "better" components and features. It's run just over $1000, though, so you're still getting more bang for buck with the 2100.
http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289:preamp-evolution-parasound-and-primare&catid=93:feature-articles&Itemid=354
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I'm going to make a decision by this weekend. I was really wanting to at least get a hybrid that had tubes for the phono stage, but if it doesn't work out then I think I'm going to snag the parasound and the Ava or halo amp.
Of course something else could come up between now and then lol
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I'm going to make a decision by this weekend. I was really wanting to at least get a hybrid that had tubes for the phono stage, but if it doesn't work out then I think I'm going to snag the parasound and the Ava or halo amp.
Of course something else could come up between now and then lol
I am not aware of any sub-$1000 preamps with both a tube phono stage and bass management. Actually that is true at any price as far as I know. If you find one let us know.
If you primarily listen to vinyl, a dedicated phono stage is probably going to be something you want to have in the long run anyway.
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FYI, though, Parasound will soon be releasing the P5 preamp, which is a Halo version of the 2100 with "better" components and features. It's run just over $1000, though, so you're still getting more bang for buck with the 2100.
http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289:preamp-evolution-parasound-and-primare&catid=93:feature-articles&Itemid=354 (http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=289:preamp-evolution-parasound-and-primare&catid=93:feature-articles&Itemid=354)
Actually according to your link, 40% over $1000 at $1400. Still, with an onboard 24/192 DAC that's said to offer "higher levels of performance than currently offered by the Zdac", it's an interesting piece.
I like the Halo series in the new black, but it will obviously be some time before they would start to appear on the used market.
Steve
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If you primarily listen to vinyl, a dedicated phono stage is probably going to be something you want to have in the long run anyway.
^ This.
Actually according to your link, 40% over $1000 at $1400. Still, with an onboard 24/192 DAC that's said to offer "higher levels of performance than currently offered by the Zdac", it's an interesting piece.
I like the Halo series in the new black, but it will obviously be some time before they would start to appear on the used market.
Steve
Steve
Whoops - thanks for the correction. Wow, that's a bit pricey, but most dealers allow 10-15% off MSRP. It's definitely tempting for me to upgrade to it, as then I'll have all Halo electronics. If the P5 with built-in DAC sounds better than my 2100 with my Digitial Link III DAC, I could sell the both and be half way there price wise. Hmm...
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I ended up purchasing the ARC SP-14. I read some reviews and the phono stage is suppose to be outstanding. Worst case, if I don't enjoy it I should be able to resale it fairly easily.
Now to get an amp!
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I ended up purchasing the ARC SP-14. I read some reviews and the phono stage is suppose to be outstanding. Worst case, if I don't enjoy it I should be able to resale it fairly easily.
Now to get an amp!
Congrats! That looks like a great piece of gear.
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Went with the crown xls 2000 amp.
Got a decent deal on eBay. If it doesn't work out I'm sure I can easily get my money back.
Just closed on the house and got funding done today so I'll be able to put these new toys to use very soon!!!
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Went with the crown xls 2000 amp.
Got a decent deal on eBay. If it doesn't work out I'm sure I can easily get my money back.
Just closed on the house and got funding done today so I'll be able to put these new toys to use very soon!!!
Let us know how it goes. This might be the first pair of Salks powered by a Crown amp (or at least the first pair I've noticed). Go easy on those tweeters!
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I have a parasound 2125 with emotiva usp-1. Very happy with the sound for what I paid. It sounds a bit bright to my ears but that could also be my speakers which are totem model 1s.
You mentioned you are looking for a hybrid. Have you considered the sphinx by rogue audio? I've also been considering this amp as an option to simplify my setup.
I haven't heard it but love the concept and have only been hearing good things about them.
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Let us know how it goes. This might be the first pair of Salks powered by a Crown amp (or at least the first pair I've noticed). Go easy on those tweeters!
Not the first. We have a SoundScape 10 owner in CA who ditched his high $ tube amps and went with a pair of Crown 2500 amps. He drives each speaker with one amp, powering the woofers with one channel and the midrange/tweeter sections with the other. He seems very happy with the results.
Based on his feedback, I purchased one and ran an experiment using a tube amp to drive the midrange/tweeter sections of a pair of SoundScape 8's and the Crown amp to drive the woofer sections. The gain of these two amps was obviously different, but I could use the volume controls on the Crown to set its gain to match the tube amp and everything tracked perfectly from there.
This model Crown amp is digital class D and has a fan. But the fan is very quiet compared to some other similar amps I have used in the past (I didn't really notice it in use). It seemed to do a good job driving the woofer sections of the SS8's with plenty of headroom (which should be expected with 775 watts per channel into 4 ohms).
- Jim
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Jim,
That's an interesting combination, but does make pretty good sense. I guess those of us running a subwoofer may well end up with a similar combination of amplification, but I've not heard of going this route for driving the woofers of the mains. I recall a few HT3 owners describing them as power hungry, so I guess this would be one way of alleviating that concern with reasonably priced amps?
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I'm even more excited about my crown purchase now that I know Jim has run a similar set up with his speakers. Obviously mine are no SS8 but I'm confident it should work out great.
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i really like EAD used equipment when you can find it. not much out there right now...
this Conrad Johnson pre would seem to be exactly what you are asking for:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Conrad-Johnson-PV10A-Stereo-Tube-Audiophile-Preamplifier-Phono-/290900289032?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item43bb022608#ht_430wt_1172 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Conrad-Johnson-PV10A-Stereo-Tube-Audiophile-Preamplifier-Phono-/290900289032?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item43bb022608#ht_430wt_1172)
the AVA 240 amp would be a great match!
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I actually looked at one of the Conrad Johnson preamps but it sold for more than I could spend.
My amps showed up yesterday so now I'm just waiting on the speakers! Can't wait to give all these new toys a whirl
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ok guys. this is probably a silly question but i'm needing a little more help. All the components and the speakers have arrived!!!!!!! I was getting ready to set up my system and realized the sub does not have a high pass filter and my pre amp does not have sub output.
For reference my system is as follows:
Crown XLS 2000 amp
ARC SP14 preamp
Rega RP1 TT
Salk STRT
Sub
In my research, am I correct that I can use 2 Y Adapters and connect that to the L & R Main Outputs on my ARC preamp. Then I'd connect the subs Low Level R to one of the R adapters and do the same with the L. I'd then run the R from the pre amp to the Amp and the second L to the amp.
That maybe confusing, so here is a picture.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=79478)
any help with this is appreciated. my budget is blown at this point so i'm hoping the Y Adapter will work, even if i'm currently not envisioning it correctly.
Thanks!
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I don't know if there were several versions of the SP14 preamp relative to outputs, but all of the photos I see of the back panel have two sets of Main L/R outputs. If that is the case with yours, then using one set for the amp and one set for the sub is generally preferable to using a Y-adapter, as the two sets of outputs are usually buffered or isolated and won't have a detrimental affect on the output impedance of the preamp, which is always a possibility when they are passively split.
Yes, the main speakers will be running full range without a high pass filter, but many people run their setups that way. Generally, you can play them a little louder with less distortion when high passed, but there is no hard and fast rule. Many people who use REL subwoofers prefer to use the speaker level connections, running the mains full range and just adding the missing octave(s) with the subwoofer.
Steve
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Welcome to music appreciation. Maybe yer next topic will be about speaker placement within your room. Hopefully members will give you the insight you need until then.
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Yeah normally the ARC has 2 sets of main outputs, but purchasing mine used the other set of outputs has been removed and closed off. Down the road I can probably get this fixed, but until then I wanted to make sure the y adapter would work.
I don't know if there were several versions of the SP14 preamp relative to outputs, but all of the photos I see of the back panel have two sets of Main L/R outputs. If that is the case with yours, then using one set for the amp and one set for the sub is generally preferable to using a Y-adapter, as the two sets of outputs are usually buffered or isolated and won't have a detrimental affect on the output impedance of the preamp, which is always a possibility when they are passively split.
Yes, the main speakers will be running full range without a high pass filter, but many people run their setups that way. Generally, you can play them a little louder with less distortion when high passed, but there is no hard and fast rule. Many people who use REL subwoofers prefer to use the speaker level connections, running the mains full range and just adding the missing octave(s) with the subwoofer.
Steve
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In your case, I would use speaker level connection. :thumb:
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I've got maybe 2 hours of listening into the system now and all I can say is WOW!!
The crown was an excellent buy. I can't hear the fan at all. It pushes the speakers wonderfully.
I put on a record by Dave Hause and it sounded like I was sitting in front of him while he played the piano. I was blown away. I can't wait to get deeper into the system
Ohhhh. And this is all sans sub. I have to hook that up still
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Just a quick update...
I finally got my sub hooked up and wow!!!!!
My only issue now is that the sub is causing bass rumble with my TT. I'm going to buy some new feet to try and help decouple the TT and possible the stand as well to see if that helps, but when I listen to MP3s with the sub on, the speakers sound even better.
I know everyone always says the same thing, but I'm rediscovering my music collection now. The clarity in the speakers just continually blows my mind. Listening to the piano in Dave Hause's Cmon Kid is unreal. I can close my eyes and picture him playing for me.
I'm going to try and convince my wife to let me get a pair of SCST for the tv room now.
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MP3????????? Salk speakers deserved more than that. :duh:
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I agree. I prefer vinyl but can't use the sub with my TT right now because of the bass rumble so I've settled for listening to some mp3s and what not to give the sub some play. Ideal... No. But it shows how truly amazing these speakers are