digital shootout at Big B's

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zybar

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digital shootout at Big B's
« on: 2 Aug 2004, 12:56 am »
Steve,

Any thoughts or comments about the listening session?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=12046&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

George

audioengr

digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #1 on: 2 Aug 2004, 03:02 am »
I wasn't there, so it's hard to comment.  When I modded John's MSB, my system was in somewhat of a dissarray due to the contruction, so I didn't have very good comparison environment.  My environment is much better now, and I'm modding another MSB, so I should be able to make a better comparison this time to my P-3A reference.  The P-3A mods have also improve a bit since I modded John's MSB, as well as a change in my reference amp to the JC-1's.

It is however gratifying to hear that spending tons of money sometimes does actually get you some performance.

Sa-dono

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digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #2 on: 2 Aug 2004, 07:22 am »
Quote from: audioengr
The P-3A mods have also improve a bit since I modded John's MSB...


Can you clarify this, Steve? Thanks!

audioengr

digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #3 on: 2 Aug 2004, 03:33 pm »
Sure - in doing the mods for the ECD-1, I made some changes that apply to the P-3A.  They are quite small, but require temporary removal of the Superclock module.  The effect is more 3-D soundstage.

TheChairGuy

digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #4 on: 2 Aug 2004, 03:44 pm »
I'm not sure it was 3D soundstage that was missing Saturday, it was more the separation of instruments that was most noticeable to me.

Anyhow, I never thought I'd actually think $4500 invested in a front end was good money spent, but I am still abundantly pleased with everything.  I simply would never contemplate $9,000 for the Krell/Wadia system.

Unless I didn't value my nut sacks  :lol:

zybar

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digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #5 on: 2 Aug 2004, 03:48 pm »
From scanning Agon, I think you could do the Krell/Wadia for a paultry sum of $7000.

Will that you keep your nuts where you like'em?   :lol:

George

TheChairGuy

digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #6 on: 2 Aug 2004, 04:00 pm »
My nuts are staying where they are :o , and so is my front end.

Besides, the Wadia that I saw the other day on Agon was the older model 27. They are a couple variations past that, I think.  Brian's model is the 27ix (I think he bought it only a few months ago).  The Krell is 11 years old or something, tho.

audioengr

digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #7 on: 2 Aug 2004, 04:04 pm »
John - Separation is a tough one.  You can get improved separation by simply eliminating some high-frequencies or toning-down the dynamics.  This is what many of the cheaper DAC's do, such as the Ack! or some of the tube-DAC's.  The trick is to get HF extension and dynamics without sibilance.  If I understood correctly, you noted that the MSB delivers more impactful high-frequencies, such as percussion, than the Wadia.  The main weakness was mid and bass "body"?

TheChairGuy

digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #8 on: 2 Aug 2004, 04:15 pm »
Quote from: audioengr
John - Separation is a tough one.  You can get improved separation by simply eliminating some high-frequencies or toning-down the dynamics.  This is what many of the cheaper DAC's do, such as the Ack! or some of the tube-DAC's.  The trick is to get HF extension and dynamics without sibilance.  If I understood correctly, you noted that the MSB delivers more impactful high-frequencies, such as percussion, than the Wadia.  The main weakness was mid and bass "body"?


Yep Steve...I know how you do focus on that hi frequency extension and I found my system had it over the Krell/Wadia.  I 'saw' the guy playing the drums, slamming the high hats on the 2nd cut we played...a wild Jazz piece from South Afrcia that Brian had.  The high frequency performance, alone, was enough for me to enjoy this piece more on my system, rather than the Krell/Wadia. In other words, tho the other 80% fo the frequency spectrum was handled better by the Krell/Wadia, I enjoyed the Sony/MSB more on that one. The sum of the better parts did not add up to better fun.

I turned to a couple of the guys and told them that...but I don't think they heard it like me.  I was bobbing much more to the music than on the Krell/Wadia.  Due to natural limitations in hi frequency response, especially with males as they age (one was about my age, one slightly younger I'd wager), it's probably more difficult to assess a plurality on that issue.

The other tracks, with far less hi frequency emphasis on them, clearly held the Krell/ Wadia in a better light.  The music had more 'body', yes.  The instruments and voices were clearly dilineated better...a better sense eof the performance wasthru the Krell/Wadia.

Neither system had any notable sibilance or grain.  It was very non-digital sounding in that room that fine day...whichever system you were listening to.

audioengr

digital shootout at Big B's
« Reply #9 on: 2 Aug 2004, 04:27 pm »
John - interesting.  The MSB that I am currently modding has different op-amps than yours.  It was previously modded by ModWright.  It had a hollow sound, like listening through a cave prior to my mods.  It will have the 192K upsampling board in the DAC rather than the transport.  

The customer is evidently also buying a Sony DVP-S7700, which I will mod.  It will drive through the S/PDIF rather than the "network" connection.  Hopefully, he will want to add the Superclock2 to the Sony.  This will probably make the biggest difference in "separation".