Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

OzarkTom · « **Reply #1000 on:** 10 Jan 2015, 10:58 pm »

In case you need another XLS Roscoe, here is a 1500 for $200 in Chicago.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/msg/4838840181.html

SlyFuu · « **Reply #1001 on:** 11 Jan 2015, 07:42 pm »

Looks like it might be missing the gain knobs. Odd the seller never mentioned it.

mjosef · « **Reply #1002 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 03:28 am »

Quote from: Odal3 on 8 Jan 2015, 11:36 pm

Per this website, even the xti has the conversion in bypass mode. The link also shows some independent measurement of the xti and other amps for those interested. I don't have the knowledge to judge it for accuracy but still an interesting read.
http://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=crown_XTI-1000

I see...a 2010 reference to the first generation XTi, I got the 1002 which is the 2nd generation and according to the pro-guys over at ProWeb the 2-series is way superior to the 1-series. Dust 2 ashes.
Regardless, lets 'talk' XLS...

Day One: XLS vs. Occam's NCore400.

FLatter, smaller soundstage vs the NCore. Bass sounded less defined, sustain shorter, dynamics less impactful vs NCore. Percussive 'strikes' were pretty good, stringed instruments were not as full-bodied as the NCore. Overall the NCore was in another league...like IMax vs regular production.
Best connections...balanced in, Speakon out. RCA out from the source sounded better with an XLR adapter into the XLS vs the RCA in.
Powered via the Bypass outlet was preferred vs the isolated 15A outlet.

Occam's system: EAR Acute cd player> NCore>Martens Miles speaker. Powered by his Alchemist conditioner and Waveform Fidelity cabling. Isolation devices...Stillpoints and SYnergystics Research MiGs.

Occam · « **Reply #1003 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 05:20 am »

What Martin said.....

That being said, the XLS amp is an excellent value and pretty darn good amp, leastwise through the Speakon speaker connectors. Subjectively those binding posts are anything but a clear window... Even through the Speakons, the amp had good resolution, but lacked the resolution of my Ncore. Like my smps powered Ncore 400, I also preferred the XLS with parallel X capacitors, rather than a series inductive / parallel cap mains filter that typically works exceptionally well with a 150 wpc 'Blameless' Class A/AB stereo power amp.

IMO, the amp responded very positively to placement on a laminated bamboo board supported by Synergistic MIGs

Perhaps the increased power of larger versions of the XLS might address my bass extension/control concerns, as might monoblocking which might also improve the sound staging and imaging. (the XLS lacked perceived image density)

Great bang for the buck.

FWIW,
Paul

Folsom · « **Reply #1004 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 05:30 am »

Paul, I'd like for you to hear a version with a dampened filter. Three CMC's in a row, in such a manner, will sing a tune that will degrade the playback substantially.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #1005 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 06:19 am »

Paul (Occam) - did you buy a Crown, and if so, which model, if you don't mind?
I ask because I haven't been following this thread lately, and there are too many pages for casual perusal.

Thanks, Russell.

mjosef · « **Reply #1006 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 06:31 am »

No Russell, I took the tour amp over to Paul to compare it with his NCore.

Day Two. A couple hours ago I swapped the XLS in for my tube amp, using the same cabling RCA in, speaker bananas out, thought it sounded 'dull' , then I sub the RCA cable for my own RCA-XLR IC, small improvement but still blah...subbed in my SpeakOn-spade speaker cable, and wow, big improvement. THose banana posts on the XLS are truly a detriment to the sound.
More to come...

System: Yamaha 1800 SACD>CAT SL1 pre>Response Audio 3205 Sig.(Plus+) >VMPS 626R

OzarkTom · « **Reply #1007 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 07:12 am »

Are you using the same brand of speaker wires in both comparisons? The Salis Audio mod with the Pomona binding posts adds quite a bit of emotion to the 1500. It should even be better after I get the amp cryo'd.

mjosef · « **Reply #1008 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 07:36 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 12 Jan 2015, 07:12 am

Are you using the same brand of speaker wires in both comparisons?

Of course, yes...IC, speaker cable...just different connectors XLR for RCA, SpeakOn for bananas.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #1009 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 10:11 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 12 Jan 2015, 07:36 am

Of course, yes...IC, speaker cable...just different connectors XLR for RCA, SpeakOn for bananas.

Just curious because I was thinking about trying the speakon, how do you switch the bananas to the speakon?

jk@home · « **Reply #1010 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 11:42 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 12 Jan 2015, 10:11 am

Just curious because I was thinking about trying the speakon, how do you switch the bananas to the speakon?

DIY on a connector. Right now I am using bare wire (Canare 4S11) into the stock binding posts, was able to fit two 14 AWG into each post. Guess I need to try the Speakons, but am running the amps bridged, so will have to wire the connectors accordingly.

http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/fc-series/nl4fc

http://www.neutrik.com/en/support/faq/how-do-i-wire-my-cable-onto-my-speakon

mjosef · « **Reply #1011 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 09:39 pm »

I normally bi-amp with my RM1s using the Xti on the bass drivers, so I have a dedicated SpeakOn speaker cable for the Xti. Same with the RCA/XLR IC

Quote from: OzarkTom on 12 Jan 2015, 10:11 am

Just curious because I was thinking about trying the speakon, how do you switch the bananas to the speakon?

OzarkTom · « **Reply #1012 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 11:12 pm »

Quote from: mjosef on 12 Jan 2015, 09:39 pm

I normally bi-amp with my RM1s using the Xti on the bass drivers, so I have a dedicated SpeakOn speaker cable for the Xti. Same with the RCA/XLR IC

I guess I will pass on the speakons. I have two cables of the same brand, one has spades, the other bananas. I hate spades, but the spaded one sounds quite a bit better than the bananas. The speaker cables I am using are cryo'd, if I change ends, I will have to send them off and get re-cryo'd.

cab · « **Reply #1013 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 12 Jan 2015, 11:12 pm

if I change ends, I will have to send them off and get re-cryo'd.

Seriously?

OzarkTom · « **Reply #1014 on:** 12 Jan 2015, 11:31 pm »

Quote from: cab on 12 Jan 2015, 11:22 pm

Seriously?

Sure, to get the best sound out of the cryo'd cables, you need the ends cryo'd also. I ran out of time, but the cryoman said to send him the Pamonas to him to cryo and let Roscoe change out on that cryo amp.

Triode Pete here on AC sells cryo'd cables, ask him.

cab · « **Reply #1015 on:** 13 Jan 2015, 12:02 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 12 Jan 2015, 11:31 pm

Sure, to get the best sound out of the cryo'd cables, you need the ends cryo'd also. I ran out of time, but the cryoman said to send him the Pamonas to him to cryo and let Roscoe change out on that cryo amp.

Triode Pete here on AC sells cryo'd cables, ask him.

Oooohhhhh kay........

Folsom · « **Reply #1016 on:** 13 Jan 2015, 12:36 am »

OzarkTom · « **Reply #1017 on:** 13 Jan 2015, 01:00 am »

Quote from: Salis Audio on 13 Jan 2015, 12:36 am

Cryo

I am still waiting for the one from Roscoe. I still have not sent the Salis modded one yet, I was wanting to compare it to the stock cryo first.

Tomy2Tone · « **Reply #1018 on:** 13 Jan 2015, 01:13 am »

Enjoying the Salis mods at the moment. Separation of instruments, well defined stage, increase in clarity. I think for the price you can get these amps used its probably a good idea to get the mod.

Anybody else out there got the Salis mod but also got it cryoed? I remember Salis saying he modded one or two and sent it off to cryo. Waiting to hear what the combo offers.

mjosef · « **Reply #1019 on:** 13 Jan 2015, 06:28 am »

Day Three...XLS does not like Stillpoints, at least not in my system. Sound was on the hard side, detailed but hard. Finally settled on a combination of two unhappy ballz and one LAT Sorbothane feet. Three LAT feet was delicious, makes you want to dance but was a bit too 'dark'. Plus about 10lbs of weight on top to keep it grounded.
Now strings has good texture, voices sound more 'human'.
The fan is very quiet, I had to peek through the front grill to know it was running...I was wondering whether it ever came on since I never heard it. That is one over the XTi, its fan lets you know when its running, you can hear it 8feet away.

Now that I have optimized the XLS in my system, tomorrow I will compare it to the Xti.
The XLS DSP is very rudimentary, almost primitive vs the Xti DSP , but I can also compare the two amps as a sub or bass amp...easy enough to match the 24dB crossover slope and freq. of the XLS with the Xti.