Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

rodge827 · « **Reply #940 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 02:12 am »

A big factor in my system/listening discouragement is the room I'm in. I had a larger very good sounding room that I lost in Hurricane Sandy. I went from a 15.5'w x 21'l x 8.5'h to the room I'm in now. I had tried many things to get the room to sound better and it became more work than fun. It sounded OK but the engagement factor was missing, I found myself listening too hard and not allowing the music to take over.
I knew the Crown was special from the first few bars and from there the rest kinda fell into place. I had the speakers closer together with the Mosfet amp since the sound stage would collapse when further apart. I moved the speakers from 6'9" to 8'4" apart and that's when the magic really started to happen. The speakers completely disappeared and the HDW increased dramatically. John Coltrane's sax came from a little on the inside and behind the left speaker on "Freddy The Freeloader", Cassandra Wilson's "Children Of The Night" blew me away with all of the crazy Afro Beat layering and when her voice came in I, for the first time, truly understood her amazing artistry! I have listened to "Blue Moon Daughter" soo many times as a reference disc and yesterday I finally got her!

Thank you Harman for designing a low cost, exceptionally sounding, ugly as sin, digital amplifier!

JDUBS · « **Reply #941 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 02:28 am »

Guys, has anyone confirmed if these amps are converting to digital and then back to analog again? I'm guessing that's probably what's going on given the crossover functionality.

But DO want to confirm.

-Jim

jk@home · « **Reply #942 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 02:29 am »

Quote from: rodge827 on 6 Jan 2015, 02:12 am

Thank you Harman for designing a low cost, exceptionally sounding, ugly as sin, digital amplifier!

One of the reasons I went with two Crowns was to hide them behind the mid-bass subs, facing towards the front wall. Don't care how they look now as I can't see them from the chair.

Folsom · « **Reply #943 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 04:22 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 6 Jan 2015, 02:28 am

Guys, has anyone confirmed if these amps are converting to digital and then back to analog again? I'm guessing that's probably what's going on given the crossover functionality.

But DO want to confirm.

-Jim

I'll take a closer look, but it seems highly unlikely. Others have said no. It'd be hard to explain why single ended has such a low level if it were true.

Folsom · « **Reply #944 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 04:24 am »

Quote from: jk@home on 6 Jan 2015, 02:29 am

One of the reasons I went with two Crowns was to hide them behind the mid-bass subs, facing towards the front wall. Don't care how they look now as I can't see them from the chair.

That's what I've been thinking. How's the articulation with a bass driver? I imagine very good.

JDUBS · « **Reply #945 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 04:33 am »

Quote from: Salis Audio on 6 Jan 2015, 04:22 am

I'll take a closer look, but it seems highly unlikely. Others have said no. It'd be hard to explain why single ended has such a low level if it were true.

I would be VERY interested to hear what you find out. I guess I just don't understand the crossover functionality if the input isn't converted to digital first.

Thanks for looking into it.

-Jim

Folsom · « **Reply #946 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 04:40 am »

It's hard to read the chips, and some might be proprietary. Active crossovers aren't new, however, so I'm not surprised if it remains analog like others have said.

jk@home · « **Reply #947 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 12:19 pm »

Quote from: Salis Audio on 6 Jan 2015, 04:24 am

That's what I've been thinking. How's the articulation with a bass driver? I imagine very good.

Actually I'm using the Crowns to drive the KEF LS50s. The two 12" mid bass subs plus 4 more AE IB15 drivers in the ceiling are all driven be Yamaha P3500S amps in a closet on the front wall. The Yamahas are fine for the subs, but given the choice now, I would of gone all Crown.

Regarding the Crowns, even with hardly no hours of breakin, the new setup of using an active high gain preamp driving balanced cables to the bridged 1500s is much better than what I remember when I tried a single amp with a single ended passive pre back in October. If these smooth out just a touch after the breakin period, I will be a happy camper.

rodge827 · « **Reply #948 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 12:55 pm »

They will smooth out the Tour amp was very smooth top to bottom.

What active preamp are you using?

rodge827 · « **Reply #949 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 01:07 pm »

Gents, I'm thinking of getting a tube preamp and running my Dual Core on an input similar to what Tomy2Tone is doing.

Would this preamp be a good choice for the Crown XLS amplifier as far as impedance matching and output?

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Masterpiece.html

Chris

steve f · « **Reply #950 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 01:37 pm »

Yes, it will work fine.

jk@home · « **Reply #951 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 02:06 pm »

Quote from: rodge827 on 6 Jan 2015, 12:55 pm

They will smooth out the Tour amp was very smooth top to bottom.

What active preamp are you using?

NuForce MCP-18.

Tomy2Tone · « **Reply #952 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 02:41 pm »

Quote from: rodge827 on 6 Jan 2015, 01:07 pm

Gents, I'm thinking of getting a tube preamp and running my Dual Core on an input similar to what Tomy2Tone is doing.

Would this preamp be a good choice for the Crown XLS amplifier as far as impedance matching and output?

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Masterpiece.html

Nice find Chris! When I first saw it I thought it was something from China, but looks like its right here from the good ole USofA.

guest61169 · « **Reply #953 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: rodge827 on 6 Jan 2015, 01:07 pm

...Would this preamp be a good choice for the Crown XLS amplifier as far as impedance matching and output?

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Masterpiece.html

Chris

Well, I can't seem to see any numbers for output impedance anywhere, other than for the headphone jack. Plus it's a kit and it's $1000 including tubes and resale value will be very low because it's a kit and because it is very homemade looking. With power amplifiers you are better leaving the power amp on 24/7 and I wouldn't do that with a tube preamp so that would mean (for me) having to switch the power amp off before the preamp (good practice to avoid power switch noise). Also the power amp should be off before turning the preamp on again. So you will need warm-up for both. If you want a tube pre I would go with a popular make that has excellent build quality, resale value and looks. Like used Audio Research, Sonic Frontiers, C-J, Quicksilver, etc. But beware output impedance issues!

Frankly I think you would be better off with a solid state Headphone amp/pre with balanced outputs and leave it on all the time, along with the power amp. Like a Benchmark, Bryston, Wyred 4 Sound, etc.

JDUBS · « **Reply #954 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 03:38 pm »

Quote from: Salis Audio on 6 Jan 2015, 04:40 am

It's hard to read the chips, and some might be proprietary. Active crossovers aren't new, however, so I'm not surprised if it remains analog like others have said.

I reached out to Crown last night and this was the reply:

"Jim,

The DSP takes care of the crossover/filtering so, yes, the signal goes analogàdigital @ DSP for crossover à analog.

Regards,
Aaron "

rodge827 · « **Reply #955 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 03:56 pm »

Quote from: noway on 6 Jan 2015, 03:12 pm

Well, I can't seem to see any numbers for output impedance anywhere, other than for the headphone jack. Plus it's a kit and it's $1000 including tubes and resale value will be very low because it's a kit and because it is very homemade looking. With power amplifiers you are better leaving the power amp on 24/7 and I wouldn't do that with a tube preamp so that would mean (for me) having to switch the power amp off before the preamp (good practice to avoid power switch noise). Also the power amp should be off before turning the preamp on again. So you will need warm-up for both. If you want a tube pre I would go with a popular make that has excellent build quality, resale value and looks. Like used Audio Research, Sonic Frontiers, C-J, Quicksilver, etc. But beware output impedance issues!

Frankly I think you would be better off with a solid state Headphone amp/pre with balanced outputs and leave it on all the time, along with the power amp. Like a Benchmark, Bryston, Wyred 4 Sound, etc.

Haven't purchased one and was looking for some feedback.
The Transcendent gear does hold its value about as good as the more popular "name brand" gear on the used market.
FWIW I like the idea of building a kit and dealing with innovative small companies. I feel that there is a better dollar to value ratio going in this direction.
Bruce has been around a long time and puts a lot of R&D in his products before he releases them.

I like how this preamp utilizes the 300b tube in the output stage. At one time I had a wonderful sounding 300b amp with some Lowther horns and liked how it conveyed music. Getting some 300b sweetness in my room could be a good thing. BTW the amp, preamp, and dac I had were all from ANKits. Unfortunately I had to sell them all due to a financial need.

Tomy2Tone · « **Reply #956 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 04:12 pm »

Is there anything that has the 300b tube that comes anywhere near this price?

roscoeiii · « **Reply #957 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 05:33 pm »

I'd check with Bruce on the output impedance as a preamp. Tube preamps can have pretty high output impedance. Though the headphones impedance is a good sign.

steve f · « **Reply #958 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 08:13 pm »

Output impedance is only 15 Ohms.

Do not worry about resale value. It's about the cost of the kits. You only lose your assembly time. Now go check the used market. TS gear is rarely up for sale. People keep them. If you are an impress your friends with fancy cases and cables kind of guy, this isn't for you. If you are about the music first, and appreciate good design, snap one up.

Stories: I took the older Transcendent Sound preamp to visit a speaker manufacturer. He ordered one.

At a well known fest, everybody stopped what they were doing to listen to the music.

At an audio store, an old friend and I brought my now modded preamp in to compare it to a top of the line unit by another company. After a couple of clients started asking me about it, the salesmen took it out of the system and asked me to put it back in my car.

And no I'm not a fanboy of any company.

Steve

DaveC113 · « **Reply #959 on:** 6 Jan 2015, 08:22 pm »

Looks like a nice preamp to me, 300Bs can sound great if the circuit design is good and judging from the measurements I'd bet it'll be great.

I also love my 6SN7 Aikido, you don't get a full kit but if you like selecting all your own parts and chassis it's a good option. I've compared it to some pricey gear and it holds up easily. It has a slightly modified white cathode follower output, it drives the Crowns with no problem and my subwoofer amp at the same time.

Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

guest61169