Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

OzarkTom · « **Reply #420 on:** 1 Dec 2014, 08:11 pm »

Quote from: a.wayne on 1 Dec 2014, 07:20 pm

Sounds like more than the amp was cryoed, folded moongel pads, power cords, err did Cryo work .....

Just keep following this thread. Roscoe should have both amps sometime this week.

a.wayne · « **Reply #421 on:** 1 Dec 2014, 08:50 pm »

I have roscoe on sat/nav, he move, i know .............

roscoeiii · « **Reply #422 on:** 1 Dec 2014, 09:01 pm »

Quote from: a.wayne on 1 Dec 2014, 08:50 pm

I have roscoe on sat/nav, he move, i know .............

I wish I had sat/nav yesterday. I got super lost in a part of Missouri/Arkasas with zero GPS or cell signal. Added 1+ hours to my drive home. Beautiful country and fun roads for my VW GTI though, even loaded to the brim with speakers.

Tomy2Tone · « **Reply #423 on:** 1 Dec 2014, 09:11 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 1 Dec 2014, 09:01 pm

I wish I had sat/nav yesterday. I got super lost in a part of Missouri/Arkasas with zero GPS or cell signal. Added 1+ hours to my drive home. Beautiful country and fun roads for my VW GTI though, even loaded to the brim with speakers.

Wow, you loaded those Sp Techs in a GTI? That must have been a sight!

People probably thought you intentionally lowered it.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #424 on:** 1 Dec 2014, 09:24 pm »

I'll take a pic before I unload it. But yeah, I was really sweating whether it would all fit.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #425 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 02:26 am »

roscoeiii · « **Reply #426 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 02:28 am »

Next to the Von Schweikerts for scale.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #427 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 02:33 am »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 2 Dec 2014, 02:28 am

Next to the Von Schweikerts for scale.

Bet that Crown amp will make those sing nicely.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #428 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 02:36 am »

Just hooked up the XLS and adjusting the levels

roscoeiii · « **Reply #429 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 02:38 am »

12 o'clock gain is too little.

Tho treble is great. Not getting the bass impact. Bass quality and detail is nice tho.

But these are power hungry speakers so no real surprise.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #430 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 03:56 am »

Hmm, everyone must be watching the Jets game...

3 o'clock is a much nicer setting on the XLS. It remains the treble detail that I am most impressed with in this combo. Will it end up being fatiguing? Time will tell. But we don't have the harshness and brightness in the treble that we heard at Jack's before inserting the Haley power conditioner. Yes, overall this is a fairly forward set-up, but I am not sure what component is contributing more to this. Will need to play around with more amps to determine this.

Rclark · « **Reply #431 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 04:10 am »

So about what I figured. A very decent amp for the money and will do second system duty quite well, but it's no Ncore.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #432 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 04:23 am »

Are you making that conclusion from my comments in my system? I wouldn't. But yes, the synergy in Jack's system was better with the ncore. Hopefully I can talk him into bringing his ncore over here to check out on these speakers.

Rclark · « **Reply #433 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 07:26 am »

Eh. "Synergy" is a highly overrated term, usually used to sell speaker cables, or win arguments. Care to put a system's overall sound quality percentage on "synergy"? Care to define it?

Imo you need a big amp or a small one, simple as that. I call synergy by another term, "expectation bias".

Unless you find the Crown's to have better "synergy" than Ncores, then by all means, do tell.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #434 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 09:01 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 2 Dec 2014, 07:26 am

Eh. "Synergy" is a highly overrated term, usually used to sell speaker cables, or win arguments. Care to put a system's overall sound quality percentage on "synergy"? Care to define it?

Imo you need a big amp or a small one, simple as that. I call synergy by another term, "expectation bias".

Unless you find the Crown's to have better "synergy" than Ncores, then by all means, do tell.

Nice to hear from someone who really knows what he is talking about.

dlaloum · « **Reply #435 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 09:36 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 2 Dec 2014, 07:26 am

Eh. "Synergy" is a highly overrated term, usually used to sell speaker cables, or win arguments. Care to put a system's overall sound quality percentage on "synergy"? Care to define it?

Imo you need a big amp or a small one, simple as that. I call synergy by another term, "expectation bias".

Unless you find the Crown's to have better "synergy" than Ncores, then by all means, do tell.

I don't think so...

An amps sound is defined by how it behaves when it hits its various limits....

How linear is it into a very low impedance (requirement: lots of current) - and how does it behave as it approaches its limits? - What forms of distortion does it add?
How does the amp handle reactive loads that have capacitance and inductance? - And is its reaction limited to particular parts of the spectrum or across the board?

The thing about classic valve amps, is that although they have power and linearity limitations, when they hit their limits they do so in a relatively benign manner - so when a transient peak triggers the nasties - they aren't too bad at all.
Solid State designs have traditionally had a lot more difficulties with this - and so have needed a lot more headroom to keep out of the nasties (coz the nasties in traditional SS designs are quite seriously bad) - Hence the need for bigger amps to achieve similar SPL's and subjective sound quality.

Now we have Class-D amps, which is really SS on steroids - it may in fact suffer from the worst of SS tendencies along with the best of SS tendencies... On the other hand, with Class-D, a 300W or 500W amp becomes quite viable under $1k, where class AB tends to max out around 100W in that price bracket... so we gain some more headroom.

What I would love to get a deeper understanding of, is what actually happens when the XLS reaches its limits and what those limits are....

But clearly big amp vs small amp doesn't tell you much about an amps ability to handle tricky loads!

Synergy is short hand (within this context) for a combination of amp and speaker which tends not to approach the limits of either component closely (also dependent on listening habbits, size of room, etc....).
Hence an amp which sound fantastic on one speaker (Quad 606 with Quad ESL989 in my case) may sound merely OK on another (606 with Gallo Ref3.2)- even though the two speakers have roughly similar SPL/W specs, their needs in terms of the amp are quite different.

To some degree I am of the old school that considers a good amp to be a wire with gain.... But it is remarkably difficult to provide that gain when the load on the end has a random handful of caps, inductors and resistors hanging off it playing havoc with different frequencies.....
The really good amps manage to still be a wire with gain under the worst conditions.

A number of other users of the Gallo's are driving them with 30W (or less) valve amps, with apparently fantastic results. (no I have not heard them- hearsay only) I am finally getting satisfying results by feeding them a diet of 880W of class-D XLS (2 x XLS2500) - Big amp vs Small amp, and both working well (providing synergy) into the same speaker....

that old black magic...

bye for now

David

orientalexpress · « **Reply #436 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 02:04 pm »

regarding driving That SP tech speakers,Ncore is too dry for me,i prefer DAC cherry amp over Ncore,it More musical.but Ncore sound great at low level,That only advantage Ncore have over DAC amp.Couples of my friends agree with what i heard also.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #437 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 09:44 pm »

Quote from: orientalexpress on 2 Dec 2014, 02:04 pm

regarding driving That SP tech speakers,Ncore is too dry for me,i prefer DAC cherry amp over Ncore,it More musical.but Ncore sound great at low level,That only advantage Ncore have over DAC amp.Couples of my friends agree with what i heard also.

Yeah, hope to try out the ncore, but also thought a meatier class d like Wyred, Red Dragon or DAC Cherry could be good matches. Guy I bought them from ran Wyred, and some Red Dragon amps are available locally used.

Tomy2Tone · « **Reply #438 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 10:06 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 2 Dec 2014, 09:44 pm

Yeah, hope to try out the ncore, but also thought a meatier class d like Wyred, Red Dragon or DAC Cherry could be good matches. Guy I bought them from ran Wyred, and some Red Dragon amps are available locally used.

I have some Wyred sx500 monoblocks you could try. If you like them we could work out a deal, if not just ship them back to me. At least you'll know how they work with your speakers.

jackman · « **Reply #439 on:** 2 Dec 2014, 11:44 pm »

Roscoe, I'm very excited for you! Those new speakers look massive and I've heard nothing but great things about SP Tech speakers (and I was very impressed with the smaller SP's you have).

I'll bring by the nCore and my SAS preamp (if you don't mind) to test on those speakers. I spent hours on Saturday, messing with different tubes in my preamp and CDP, and messing around with your power conditioner (which I will return when we meet). From what I understand, the SP Tech speakers like lots of power, so they might be a good match for the Crown.

I wanted to like the Crown, because the $ difference between it and the nCore was pretty significant (and I was already thinking of fun ways to spend the $$$ I was going to get when I sold the nCore, before the Crown ever hit my door). The Crown is also SUPER compact and cool running (and silent in my system). It must have liked the impedance of my speakers because the fan was rarely on. The only thing I did not care for was the sound! In my system it didn't sound anywhere near the nCore, even with power conditioning on the Crown.

The more I listen to the nCore (with SAS 10A preamp) and the Bamberg Series 5's, the more I like it. The speakers disappear and the sound envelopes you in a way I really enjoy. Unfortunately, the nCore stays until I find something better to replace it (maybe something up the nCore food-chain). I've never tried the Wyred amps but look forward to hearing Tomy's at Roscoe's house.

Cheers,
Jack