[Mr P]

My TS rounds arrived today  , it's going to be another week or so until the adapters arrive.  But I have to reiterate what a great combo the HW CV-378 + RCA cleartops is.  My system has remained unchanged for a few weeks now so all tubes are fully broken in and they really are sounding sweet. 

I pulled one of the cleartops today and took a look inside the transporter to see how close the caps are to the sockets, and sure enough one of them is tight up next to the front socket, so when the adapters get here I will have to do some filing/grinding.  I wound up choosing to go with the the Taiwanese version because they are the most cost effective, and compact (no matter how much I would like to support Waynes efforts, the cost and extended height was just too much of a detractor for me).  They are no longer the blue/orange johnnys that some of you guys have, but are now made in basic black.  Not that it matters really, as they only seen when you install them.  I had to wait a week or two for them to be back in stock, seems there was some kind of rush on them a few weeks back, and the supplier was cleaned out...    hmmm...  I wonder what could have caused that. 

Next step would be to get ahold of a EML to try out.

By the lack of activity in this thread I think we can assume that everybody is still happy with that combo, huh.
Anyone brave enough to shell out for the Swedish Standard 33S30's that Marco posted a pager or two ago?  I see they have had at least one offer made on them 

Funkmonkey - My Tung Sols arrived today also.  I stated a month or so that I was in love with the EML/RCA Cleartop combo.  I can only say that love is blind!  The EML/Tung Sol combination smokes EML/Cleartop combo.  There is just no comparison.  You are going to be very pleased when you receive your adaptors. 
Mark

[rpf]

Hey Marco,

Yes, I'm sorry to say there is a significant difference - in my experience - between the Mullard military GZ 37 (mine was not croyed for whatever that's worth) and the HW GZ37. While the former is very good (better than some Mullard 5AR4s in my Modwright Sony 9100), the latter has increased resolution, greater frequency extension and refinement, and a much larger soundstage.

As always, IMS, YMMV.

Rob

[funkmonkey]

Just wanted to report that adaptors arrived on monday, and rolled in the TS-Rounds...  very nice.  They are not burned in yet (only about ten hours on them) but the difference that they make is in all the right places.  First thing that I noticed was a fleshier bottom end/more meaty bass.  Not that they extend the range, they just ad a fair amount of heft over the RCA cleartops, especially in the low-mid bass region.  Mids are a little more bloomy and full, but not overdone, I like what is going on here.  The highs I am still undecided about, and hopefully will open up a little more as the tubes burn in...

Anybody know of a good cheap "second choice" 6SN7 that I should pick up for more casual listening?  Something that does most of what the TungSols do, but doesn't cost nearly as much.  I know it has been mentioned before but after a quick search back I couldn't find the post I was looking for...

Thanks guys, I am glad I took the 6SN7 pill. 

[zybar]

Just wanted to report that adaptors arrived on monday, and rolled in the TS-Rounds...  very nice.  They are not burned in yet (only about ten hours on them) but the difference that they make is in all the right places.  First thing that I noticed was a fleshier bottom end/more meaty bass.  Not that they extend the range, they just ad a fair amount of heft over the RCA cleartops, especially in the low-mid bass region.  Mids are a little more bloomy and full, but not overdone, I like what is going on here.  The highs I am still undecided about, and hopefully will open up a little more as the tubes burn in...

Anybody know of a good cheap "second choice" 6SN7 that I should pick up for more casual listening?  Something that does most of what the TungSols do, but doesn't cost nearly as much.  I know it has been mentioned before but after a quick search back I couldn't find the post I was looking for...

Thanks guys, I am glad I took the 6SN7 pill. 

Two possible choices are the Ken-Rad and Raytheon VT-231's.

Both are significantly cheaper than the TungSol's and get you a good deal of the way there.

George

[Philistine]

Just wanted to report that adaptors arrived on monday, and rolled in the TS-Rounds...  very nice.  They are not burned in yet (only about ten hours on them) but the difference that they make is in all the right places.  First thing that I noticed was a fleshier bottom end/more meaty bass.  Not that they extend the range, they just ad a fair amount of heft over the RCA cleartops, especially in the low-mid bass region.  Mids are a little more bloomy and full, but not overdone, I like what is going on here.  The highs I am still undecided about, and hopefully will open up a little more as the tubes burn in...

Anybody know of a good cheap "second choice" 6SN7 that I should pick up for more casual listening?  Something that does most of what the TungSols do, but doesn't cost nearly as much.  I know it has been mentioned before but after a quick search back I couldn't find the post I was looking for...

Thanks guys, I am glad I took the 6SN7 pill. 

I've currently got a pair of Ken-Rad's on loan, and I'm very impressed with them.  No time to do a critical AB with the Tung Sols, but I could certainly live with them as a permanent tube.

[funkmonkey]

Thanks guys, The Ken-Rad is the one that I was trying to remember.  Any difference (sonically) between the clear & black glass versions of the Ken-Rad?  I'll have to research the Raytheon a bit more.  Any notes on the Sylvanias? They look cool if nothing else.

[funkmonkey]

Pair of Swedish Standard 22S22C / GZ34 Tubes NOS at $610 right now
with 24 minutes to top it... 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320354092153&ssPageName=h:h:alt:3

EDIT:  they sold for $890 for the pair!!!!! 

[Berto]

  I have not tried the ken rads or rathyeons, and I like the TS alot more then the gray glass RCAs. But same RCAs are still very good as most in here will prob vouch
  My fav non TS round tube (so far) is the Orange labeled clear glass Brimars. They are more detailed, and open then coated Brimar. TS are so far the King of resolution but give the musical nod to the Orange Brimars. Just easier to listen too.
 Alot of these rare tubes like the swiss ones and B65's im sure sound great but the fact they are so rare is why your paying more, then anything else. (IMHO) Good example is the Orange brimars I prefer over coated are less expensive and not as rare.
  I am negotiating for some Sylvania (not metal base) 6SN7Ws, supposedly called there answer to the TS rounds, and have recieved rave reviews as well. Also trying to get some rare Cossor 6SN7GTs both of these are half the price of TS rounds or lower. I will comment on those as well, eventually.
  Definitely some good choices out there if your willing to search out and experiment.

[ted_b]

My fave non-TS round is the RCA VT-231 gray glass, but the silver labeled RCA is a close third.  The gray glass cost me like $35 each incl shipping from Greece (they go for slightly more now), and the silver labels (not VT-231) around $30 each. 

[Audioclyde]

Funkmonkey,

Paul L., good guy that sells lots of quality 6SN7's, tells me that there should be no difference between clear and black glass Ken Rad VT231's.  I have a pair of each and can't tell the difference.  This tube, along with the Raytheon 6SN7 are my second favorite after the TS; while I found the RCA gray glass very easy to listen to, I thought they gave up too much detail (and this coming from me, that prefers a warm sound).

Randy

[Berto]

      The Sylvania 6SN7W blk base are highly regarded but the metal base version is said to be best 6SN7 period.  Ive just read comparisons from users and ratings from the sellers themselves.  Black base people were flawed, but rolled against the metal and then they noticed a "sparkle from top to bottom" 
      There also 3x the price as the black base, I guess thats the goin rate for sparkle these days, but to rationalize it a lil maybe another 50 bux more then TS rounds  but also more exotic with that chrome top and engraved metal base and pretty much everyone calling it the mac daddy of u.s. 6SN7 tubes.
       Do they have a helpline for people who can't stop buying NOS tubes

[zybar]

      The Sylvania 6SN7W blk base are highly regarded but the metal base version is said to be best 6SN7 period.  Ive just read comparisons from users and ratings from the sellers themselves.  Black base people were flawed, but rolled against the metal and then they noticed a "sparkle from top to bottom" 
      There also 3x the price as the black base, I guess thats the goin rate for sparkle these days, but to rationalize it a lil maybe another 50 bux more then TS rounds  but also more exotic with that chrome top and engraved metal base and pretty much everyone calling it the mac daddy of u.s. 6SN7 tubes.
       Do they have a helpline for people who can't stop buying NOS tubes

I have a pair of Sylvania metal base 6SN7W tubes and while they are excellent, I still prefer the TungSol Roundplates.  The TS tubes have a more organic and liquid sound while maintaining a slight edge on detail and texture.  The 6SN7W's might have a small edge in the bass area.

Both a great tubes and both are very expensive.

For me personally, the few extra dollars on the TungSol tubes is worth it.

George

[grenamc]

Hi guys.

I recently discovered my speaker (and there was much rejoicing).  I will be building a pair of Linkwitz Orions for myself and will be building a dedicated 2-ch setup for them.  I am posting because when I auditioned the Orions I got a chance to A/B my MW TP with an SB3 to a Theta Va DAC and I really thought the sound was surprisingly similar.  The Theta had the same organic quality that I have always associated to the tube stage in my TP.  This was a pretty neat situation, listening to two DACs that have completely different design approaches but similar sound.  I chalked it up to "good design is good design".  At any rate, I am thinking once my Orions are built (which will probably be a few weeks at least) I might try the tube rolling thing to see if I can discern a real difference and mold the sound to something different or if the Orions just bludgeon the sound into their own footprint.  If they do, I will be getting an SB3, lol.  It looks like the Ken Rads or Raytheons is a good starting point for power tubes.  What about Rectifier?

-Michael

[Marco Prozzo]

Hi guys.

 I got a chance to A/B my MW TP with an SB3 to a Theta Va DAC and I really thought the sound was surprisingly similar.  The Theta had the same organic quality that I have always associated to the tube stage in my TP.  This was a pretty neat situation, listening to two DACs that have completely different design approaches but similar sound.  I chalked it up to "good design is good design".  <snip>
-Michael

On a similar note, I recently did an extended comparison session over at my friend's house.  I'm very familiar with his room and system having spent many an evening listening there.  He currently has one of the best systems I've heard, and it is very revealing of changes...intimately so.  He was interested in hearing and comparing both the Transporter and my one-box 36.5 preamp to a few different contenders he'd been considering in his system.  I don't have time for a long post on this so I'll try to be brief.  We did strictly blind comparisons where one would do the setup while the other would leave the room for swapping.  His system is in a custom built wall cabinet with easy access from the back via a separate small room so it made it very easy to do the swapping out.  We used mostly digital files and discs for the TP comparison. We did one comparison adding an Einstein phono section into the linestages of each of the two preamps being compared. Bottom line was we both consistently preferred the sound of the MW TP over four different options (again, choosing this blind with several cuts of music we were each familiar with).  The contenders there were an Empirical PaceCar + Empirical Modded Northstar DAC with i2s connection, the same PaceCar to an MHDT Havana DAC (better than the Northstar, believe it or not, but not as nice as the TP), and a Electrocompaniet EMC1-UP player (stock), both with and without Pacecar via SPDIF.  The closest was the Havana DAC and Pacecar combo.  The others just seemed to lack the natural feel of music that the TP presented, but the TP was a very clear winner.  At the time I was using a non-HW Mullard GZ37 and RCA cleartops (I'm trying to imagine the difference with an EML in the mix).  We did not change that throughout.  Everything was thoroughly warmed up when comparing (we left anything that was unplugged from the system powered up and at idlle.  That goes for preamps too.  The 36.5 one-box preamp trounced the Lamm LL2 Deluxe with premium tubes (NOS Amperex and Mullard) - every time over and over we'd both pick the Modwright. The difference was very clear in his system.  The MW had superior detail and soundstaging abilities and just presented the illusion of a real, palpable instrument in space.  We began a comparison with a Hovland HP-100 which we both thought was closer.  I picked out the Modwright definitively but not by a large margin in one set of comparisons (4 diverse cuts), while my friend chose the Hovland, but, like me, opining that it was so damn close and each had very nice qualities. Tubes in the one-box 36.5 were a Mullard 5AR4 and DR's (thank you David).   My friend really wanted to try the Hovland comparo again as he felt ambivalent about his late-night Hovland impressions (I think it was getting on 2AM by that point). We could not repeat that test again as our time was cut short the next morning by a windstorm cutting the power for several hours stopping all testing for us and by then I had to leave.  Had the 36.5 been a two-box it would have undoubtedly taken all the bacon by a very long shot. As it was, it was a clear winner for me and just short of that for my friend. The MW TP trumped all.  He was very impressed. A damn fine showing for Dan, and for Alan's circuit in the 36.5!  Someday I'll bring my KWA over to his place (when my back is feeling a bit stronger) - I think it would do really well there, but certainly would have some worthy opponents.   I'm really enjoying that amp in my own system. 

[funkmonkey]

Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA.  He said that the latest shipment arrived today. 

[Marco Prozzo]

Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA.  He said that the latest shipment arrived today. 

It's probably somewhere in the past 55 pages of this thread, but how do the mesh plates compare to the solid plates?  I thought it was the solid plate that everyone is writing about when they are gushing over the performance of the EML.  Am I mistaken?

 

[Philistine]

Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA.  He said that the latest shipment arrived today. 

It's probably somewhere in the past 55 pages of this thread, but how do the mesh plates compare to the solid plates?  I thought it was the solid plate that everyone is writing about when they are gushing over the performance of the EML.  Am I mistaken?

 

Marco,

Only one owner, Mr P, has posted a comparison of the mesh and solid plate EML 5U4G:

I completed my comparison of the Emission Lab 5U4G solid plate and mesh plate tubes in my Transporter this afternoon.  This activity was originally planned for yesterday afternoon, but a power outage due to high winds put that plan on hold.  Just another reason to get off the grid.

During the comparison I used two songs I was very familiar with.  The first was vocal/acoustic based, “Cry of a Tiny Baby” off the Columbia Records Radio Hour CD.  The second was “New South Africa” off the Live Art CD by Bela Fleck and the Flecktones.  This song has a lot going on instrumentally.   

To compare I listened to a song three times with the solid plate tube, changed to the mesh plate tube, let it warm up, listened to the same song two times, changed back to the solid plate, let it warm up and listened to the same song one more time.  I did this for each of the two songs.  My system had been playing for 90 minutes prior to starting.  All tubes had >100 hours on them.

The differences in my system were subtle.  The solid plate was a little more incisive/tighter with a touch more drive, most noticeable in the bass.  The stage presentation with the mesh plate plate was slightly further back than with the solid plate, even with the front of my speakers instead of slightly in front of them.  There were a couple of instances where I thought I heard a little more resolution with the mesh plate.  That was about it.  In my system these were not huge differences.  For me the solid plate will be my main tube as my system is a little laid back at this time.

A couple of other notes.  In my system the RCA Cleartops are magic with either the mesh plate or solid plate EM Lab 5U4G.  While the 6N1Ps provided a little more resolution, there is no comparison in the tone and timbre areas.  I have not tried the 6H30DRs and to be honest I’m in no hurry.  This tube combination along with the Hyper-Drive mod has sent my system to new level.  Also, the two 5U4Gs in series in my system was too much of a good thing.  I experimented with putting one in the Transporter and one in my amplifier.  While the sound was not bad, it was clearly better with just the one in the Transporter.

Disclaimer - Results are based on my system and YMMV in yours.

System = Transporter with Hyper Drive Mod - First Sound Presence Mk II Preamp - Yamamoto 300B SET amp - Zu Definition Pro Mk II Speakers

Let me know if you have any questions.

To date I believe most, if not all of us, have the mesh version.

Phil

[Marco Prozzo]

Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA.  He said that the latest shipment arrived today. 

It's probably somewhere in the past 55 pages of this thread, but how do the mesh plates compare to the solid plates?  I thought it was the solid plate that everyone is writing about when they are gushing over the performance of the EML.  Am I mistaken?

 

Marco,

Only one owner, Mr P, has posted a comparison of the mesh and solid plate EML 5U4G:

I completed my comparison of the Emission Lab 5U4G solid plate and mesh plate tubes in my Transporter this after<big ass snip>

To date I believe most, if not all of us, have the mesh version.

Phil

Hey Phil - Thanks so much for posting that.  I'd gone back over quite a few of the posted pages and had not located that post, but did read many others.  My system is probably on the forward side, and my room is overly live, so I'm thinking mesh plate is the way to go for me.  It's my birthday on tax day, so I'm going to treat myself and try one out.

[Philistine]

Just placed my order for an EML mesh plate 5U4G from George at TubesUSA.  He said that the latest shipment arrived today. 

It's probably somewhere in the past 55 pages of this thread, but how do the mesh plates compare to the solid plates?  I thought it was the solid plate that everyone is writing about when they are gushing over the performance of the EML.  Am I mistaken?

 

Marco,

Only one owner, Mr P, has posted a comparison of the mesh and solid plate EML 5U4G:

I completed my comparison of the Emission Lab 5U4G solid plate and mesh plate tubes in my Transporter this after<big ass snip>

To date I believe most, if not all of us, have the mesh version.

Phil

Hey Phil - Thanks so much for posting that.  I'd gone back over quite a few of the posted pages and had not located that post, but did read many others.  My system is probably on the forward side, and my room is overly live, so I'm thinking mesh plate is the way to go for me.  It's my birthday on tax day, so I'm going to treat myself and try one out.

It will be interesting to get your feedback on the EML Marco, a great birthday present.
I've celebrated finishing my personal and business taxes by buying a KWA 150

[Marco Prozzo]

It will be interesting to get your feedback on the EML Marco, a great birthday present.
I've celebrated finishing my personal and business taxes by buying a KWA 150

Wow, talk about your great gifts to one's self!  Very nice - congrats, Phil.  I look forward to hearing your impressions.  I think you'll be very pleased.  Mine has been breaking in quite nicely and I've been loving it more every day. 

Funny about my B'day present:  My wife is not entirely supportive or happy about my audio obsessions, in spite of her training as a musician.  She asked for a clue as to what I wanted for my birthday and I told her that an EML 5u4g would be very nice. Her response (eyes rolling upwards) - "If you think I'm buying you one of those hundred dollar light bulbs you're dreaming!"  So I'll be gifting myself this year and I think I'd better shred that receipt.