I like this Ethan Winer primer :thumb:
http://exposed.ethanwiner.com/ate.htm
I get great results from IsoAcoustic stands.
Results do depend on the floor and home construction for sure, but for me, I got a subwoofer stand to try out years ago. I crank up my system, the result was subjectively cleaner bass, but also much less resonance throughout my home. All the things that normally rattle around stopped or were reduced in amplitude by a large amount. My home was "singing along" with the music a lot less. Picture frames, lighting enclosures, windows, etc. all vibrate less or not at all anymore.
Later, I tried them under my 15" woofer enclosures and the results were even better... less smearing of the midrange, which results in better imaging and soundstaging. These 15s can rattle my house much more than my sub could and the result here was even better as far as reduced resonance in my home.
The thought that speaker cabs don't vibrate enough to transmit vibration to the floor is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
... my experience with Isoacoustics stands coincides with DaveC's results and yes, it is subjective. The type of testing to properly test isolation products from my understanding is quite expensive, in other words, you can't just use REW and see if there is a change in frequency response :lol:
In addition, I would like some psychoacoustic research thrown in. I have been tested with blindfolds listening two of the same type of speaker (it was a coax!) with height corrected and I was able to tell which one had an Isoacoustics stand and which one didn't. That being said, I would love for a testing modality to prove it so I can sleep well at night. Yes, I'm still unsure!
Another isolation method type to try is what PrimeAcoustic does with their RX7 monitor isolations (Recoil stabilizer: http://www.primacoustic.com/recoils/). An avid DIY'er could come up with something similar like using a granite slab with foam like product on it (NoRez, PartsExpress Sonic Barrier, etc...)
Best,
Anand.
Some of the terminology is a little messed up in regards to coupling, de-coupling, and isolation.
What most of these devices really do is damp out vibration. These products act like a shock absorber on your car, but your car is not de-coupled from the road. The tires are still on the road. And the speakers are still coupled to the floor.
Rule of thumb is if the floor can move then there can be some benefit from adding a damper. But if the floor is a solid concrete floor then couple the speaker to the floor with floor spikes.
Rule of thumb is if the floor can move then there can be some benefit from adding a damper. But if the floor is a solid concrete floor then couple the speaker to the floor with floor spikes.
My listening room is in the basement, so I'm pretty sure there is a concrete floor under the carpet. As stated above, my risers (5.15" high) also act as isolation platforms. The top 2" layers are solid MDF and everything below on the inside is foam of varying densities. Despite the concrete floor, these do a tremendous job of really cleaning up the bass - and the mids too. The difference is prettyobviousspectacular as tweaks go.
I hate spikes. Besides damaging the carpet they make fine tuning a pain. I'm much happier being able to slide my speakers around without snagging the carpet. :D
Thanks Danny. Nomenclature aside, have you used anything that you recommend to dampen vibrations for your speakers on live wood floors? My wife was raised in Texas & still has family there, so I know that most houses are on concrete slabs, but with older ones being pier & beam. Anand mentioned No Rez as a possible effective layer & I know that you sell it for speaker linings. Have you ever tried it under speakers?
I had looked into the GAIA isolator series when I was looking at the other IsoAcoustic products. The N3's lined w/ No-Rez weigh 57# each, so I could get by with the III smallest versions. But at $400 for a speaker pair, it's not an option for me. The L8R-200 sub fixed isolators would work, & for $120 are a strong possibility.
Thanks Jay, I appreciate the input! I had looked into the GAIA isolator series when I was looking at the other IsoAcoustic products. The N3's lined w/ No-Rez weigh 57# each, so I could get by with the III smallest versions. But at $400 for a speaker pair, it's not an option for me. The L8R-200 sub fixed isolators would work, & for $120 are a strong possibility.
Gotta say watching that Ethan Winer video was a bit creepy. What was he thinking?Ethan is for sure, ahhh, -- different.
I made these after reading some of what Barry Diament wrote on Computer Audiophile. MDF on the floor with three drawer pulls attached that have a concave face. These are for the ball bearings to rest on. The top MDF has a large ceramic tile attached to the bottom with liquid nails. This is for the ball bearings to have a hard smooth surface. Actually a friend made these for his Magnepan 3.7i speakers and he said "All I can say that it has taken my 3.7s to a new level. Vocals just sound more realistic. Cymbals and percussion just have added resolution. The entire presentation sounds clearer." I can't say I hear that much of a difference, but there is more clarity. I'm not sure if the improvement I hear just comes from raising the Spatial M3 Triode Masters up a bit.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/35143-vibration-air-roller-bearings-thanks-to-barry-warren/?tab=comments#comment-713639
http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/
I'm not sure if the improvement I hear just comes from raising the Spatial M3 Triode Masters up a bit.
Gotta say watching that Ethan Winer video was a bit creepy. What was he thinking?
We've got a set of these under Don's NX-Tremes and they seem to be working well.
His speakers are on carpet so a large 2'x2' tile sits direct on the carpet, then the "iso pods", then the speakers
http://www.isoacoustics.com/isoacoustics-news/isoacoustics-gaia-speaker-isolation-available-in-the-us-and-canada/
I'm sure you could get away with the smaller ones for the N3Tl's, yo'd have to call about thread sizing
jay
I bought them at Home Depot, but can't find a link after looking for quite a while.
I made these after reading some of what Barry Diament wrote on Computer Audiophile. MDF on the floor with three drawer pulls attached that have a concave face. These are for the ball bearings to rest on. The top MDF has a large ceramic tile attached to the bottom with liquid nails. This is for the ball bearings to have a hard smooth surface. Actually a friend made these for his Magnepan 3.7i speakers and he said "All I can say that it has taken my 3.7s to a new level. Vocals just sound more realistic. Cymbals and percussion just have added resolution. The entire presentation sounds clearer." I can't say I hear that much of a difference, but there is more clarity. I'm not sure if the improvement I hear just comes from raising the Spatial M3 Triode Masters up a bit.
I bought them at Home Depot, but can't find a link after looking for quite a while.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178110)
did you consider getting the carpet spikes for the gaia's ?
Well just lifting them up certainly makes a difference. I've raised mine so that the center of the compression driver matches the height of my ears. Try doing this and see how you like it; I know I sure do. :D
Isolation is a bonus, and to be honest I think boxed speakers benefit more from it than OBs.
I made these after reading some of what Barry Diament wrote on Computer Audiophile. MDF on the floor with three drawer pulls attached that have a concave face. These are for the ball bearings to rest on. The top MDF has a large ceramic tile attached to the bottom with liquid nails. This is for the ball bearings to have a hard smooth surface. Actually a friend made these for his Magnepan 3.7i speakers and he said "All I can say that it has taken my 3.7s to a new level. Vocals just sound more realistic. Cymbals and percussion just have added resolution. The entire presentation sounds clearer." I can't say I hear that much of a difference, but there is more clarity. I'm not sure if the improvement I hear just comes from raising the Spatial M3 Triode Masters up a bit.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/35143-vibration-air-roller-bearings-thanks-to-barry-warren/?tab=comments#comment-713639
http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178102)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178109)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178110)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178111)
In the OP doesn't the use of the rickety wooden table invalidate all the results? Shouldn't the speakers rest on the most solid surface possible so that the effect of each isolation devise could be measured more accurately rather than through the lens of the unstable platform that smears everything?
For Rollo's excellent suggestion of the 7/8" dowels, I'm wondering if they should be parallel with the sides or front of the speaker. From the post I believe he's saying parallel with the front/back, but I'm thinking parallel with the sides would halt any forward/back movement caused by the speaker moving in the same direction.
The dowels are to placed perpendicular the side of speaker. One front one back. Just need a level floor below.
charles
Don't you lose efficiency allowing the speaker to move back and forth versus anchoring it ? If it moves back and forth, that force that should go into making music gets burnt up mechanically moving the speaker diminishing music production.
And yet spiking a speaker to the floor tightens up bass response.
And yet it is common observed and accepted by many people...
Come on man. How about the bass can get tighter, and less bloomy.
It's a bit like a sub with cabinet wall resonances. The resonances might be minuscule compared to the output of the woofer, but taking away the resonances sounds cleaner for sure.
...Should I use cones, rubber feet or springs under components?
It seems every body has forgoten about the story. In the late 70's when Gilles Millot (famous speaker and driver designer) first presented spikes under speakers, the tip was facing a wooden floor.... The spike is only one part of the system : the part that is easy to sell and ship .... Spikes and cones tips must face a damping / spreading material like plywwod. Then, only can the spikes behave as a "large bandwidth" and "omnidirectional emitter" of energy in the dissipating material, thus allowing minimum energy return to the component through the spikes. Only if you have a thick plywood plinth under components, it is worth to try what happens with cones or spikes. Most of the rubber feet, springs or inflating devices are no useless for quality : mostly good enough to provide a less disturbing sound balance in a poor sounding system.
Does plywood also improve speaker's balance and micro-dynamic?
The problem is very much the same as with components. The difference is that some parts of the speakers actually generate vibrations. For the same reasons, decoupling materials should be rigid and damping to allow spreading of the vibration's energy. Again the best material is plywood... A good thick plinth of plywood where to spike a floorstander speaker is a must. Additionally, spikes won't scratch the floor any more. Same applies under stands of bookshelf speakers. Additionaly, one can put plinths on top of each stand. If speakers are also on spikes, it can be also interesting to keep the spikes under the speakers ....(http://www.lavardin.com/KRAKL12E400.jpg)
There is only 3 feet under Lavardin Technologies amplifiers. Why?
3 feet is the guaranty that each foot will receive a constant pressure what ever is the flatness of the support. With 4 feet and a non perfectly flat support, one foot can remain unloaded. They are made of specific hard neoprene rubber to allow at least good results even in the most adverse environment.
Dave, my experiences are from our listening room and various audio shows.
The stability of the floors can vary as much as noise on the A/C lines. Some are pretty solid and some will move.
At shows we go through a lot of moving and positioning of the speakers to find the right spots and once we've found the spots then we spike the speakers.
I thought it was brilliant. :o :lol:
I know, this thread is about speaker isolation but...
What is the best rack to put the amplifier?
http://www.lavardin.com/lavardin-faqE.html#support
....