AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Single Driver, Wide-Bandwidth Speakers => Topic started by: opnly bafld on 13 Apr 2014, 02:14 pm
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Anyone?
http://www.birchacoustics.com/
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Looks like this driver....http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne149w-08-5-1-4-fiber-cone-woofer-speaker-8-ohm--264-1132
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Looks like this driver....http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne149w-08-5-1-4-fiber-cone-woofer-speaker-8-ohm--264-1132 (http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne149w-08-5-1-4-fiber-cone-woofer-speaker-8-ohm--264-1132)
Except that particular driver is a woofer with response only to 5KHz, not a full-range driver. Maybe there is a full-range or extended-range variant.
Steve
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Stunning beautiful site. :thumb:
THe speakers too.
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Except that particular driver is a woofer with response only to 5KHz, not a full-range driver. Maybe there is a full-range or extended-range variant.
Steve
That's what I thought...I checked the Tymphany site ..I didn't see one. Unless I missed it. Their full range units only go to 3.5" diameter and response 10khz.
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Looks like this driver....http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne149w-08-5-1-4-fiber-cone-woofer-speaker-8-ohm--264-1132
THis driver addressed above is really a woofer.
The fullrange driver is a similar one, more expensive:
http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne149w-04-5-1-4-full-range-woofer--264-1082
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THis driver addressed above is really a woofer.
The fullrange driver is a similar one, more expensive:
http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne149w-04-5-1-4-full-range-woofer--264-1082 (http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-ne149w-04-5-1-4-full-range-woofer--264-1082)
Nope, PE just happened to use "full range woofer" in the title for that one. It's the same 5KHz woofer, just the 4 ohm version.
Steve
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The spec sheet shows an on axis peak from 6-7K and another around 15K. Looks like it does respond higher than the 5,000 mark. Never heard it and don't have an opinion.
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1132-parts-express-specifications.pdf
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Nope, PE just happened to use "full range woofer" in the title for that one. It's the same 5KHz woofer, just the 4 ohm version.
Steve
If it run til 5K only its not correct to call it ''full range'' IMO.
PE may wrong this time.
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As Blackmore pointed out there is response beyond 5KHz but it's not very smooth and not what I would want to run "full-range" without some kind of filtering correction, which according to Birch Acoustics, they don't use.
The term "Full Range Woofer" does seems to be PE's own description, as Tymphany/Peerless merely refer to it as a "woofer" even though they do say "FEA-designed motor features copper caps to minimize inductance and extend performance to high frequencies".
Then again, all of the Tymphany specifications are based on a 50Hz - 5KHz Test Spectrum Bandwidth. So while there is response beyond 5KHz, because it is a bit ragged, if I were Tymphany I would refer to it as a 5KHz driver as they do.
Although it looks like the same driver as far as flange, surround and cone, maybe Birch Acoustics has a different version built to their specifications and application?
I like the cabinets, but that's obviously what you're mostly paying for.
Steve
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Well PE just wrong call they "Full Range Woofer" they are Mid Range Drivers.
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Even that's stretching it by my lights. I certainly wouldn't fancy running them wide-open. That said, Vifa / Tymphany present data for most of their larger drivers, including nominal widebanders, in more or less the same way as they do for their midbass / LF products, which does not put them in a visually flattering light compared to some others. And they've had a few positive reviews, so evidently at least some people like the results, which is ultimately what matters, and the enclosures are very pretty. Improbable that they have a custom unit, although not impossible.
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None of you guys have ever actually measured a fullrange driver, right?
Yes, the response of that driver (and let's assume it is the one used in the speakers titled by this thread) looks a bit ragged, but please show me real measurements of a FR driver 3" or greater that isn't. On-axis, if you smoothed it, it would be "flat" to 20k. Like the measurements some other manufacturers provide. Off-axis, it falls off above about 2k. Show me a 5" driver that doesn't.
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... but please show me real measurements of a FR driver 3" or greater that isn't (ragged on top) ...
That's funny, I was about to post the exact same thing :lol:
That Vifa has been measured by the Parts Express guys. It extends just as "smoothly" as most full range drivers.
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Well, the point is (for me anyway) not to diss FR drivers but simply to point out that the driver, used full-range, seems no better or worse from the apparent measurements than anything else of a similar size.
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Which is what I said. The data presentation on the Vifa is less flattering than that employed by most manufacturers of wideband drive units. Personally, I'd still filter it -the cone profile & design suggest operation over a more limited range than some (note caveat) where they were expected to be run wide open. But I've seen worse too. As for the Birch designs -not what I'd do, but that scarcely matters. To each their own & all that.
Oh -I have measured widebanders thanks.
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Measurements aside, I believe the issue is terminology. PE calls it a full range woofer, an oxymoron for sure.
This unit is not what usually comes to mind as a full range driver. Of course you could use one as such...the proof is always in the listening, not the measuring.
But as far as putting things in neat little classifications... this TB unit is what one would consider full range https://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w8-1808-8-neodymium-full-range-driver--264-894
The cone area of an 8" unit is over twice that of the 5.25" unit yet the cone mass is still less than the 5.25", offering a better top end response. Greg
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But as far as putting things in neat little classifications... this TB unit is what one would consider full range https://wholesale.parts-express.com/tang-band-w8-1808-8-neodymium-full-range-driver--264-894 (https://wholesale.parts-express.com/tang-band-w8-1808-8-neodymium-full-range-driver--264-894)
Your link goes to the wholesale Parts Express site, requiring a log-in.
How about this:
http://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w8-1808-8-neodymium-full-range-driver--264-894
Steve
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A good driver of its type.
Whatever the views on the driver, I for one am simply glad that there is another small loudspeaker manufacturer out there. Good luck to them.
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Your link goes to the wholesale Parts Express site, requiring a log-in.
How about this:
http://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w8-1808-8-neodymium-full-range-driver--264-894
Steve
Thanks for catching that..I don't know what the problem is...every time I go to the site it takes me to the log in page. That never used to happen!!
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A good driver of its type.
Whatever the views on the driver, I for one am simply glad that there is another small loudspeaker manufacturer out there. Good luck to them.
Agreed !!
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Your link goes to the wholesale Parts Express site, requiring a log-in.
How about this:
http://www.parts-express.com/tang-band-w8-1808-8-neodymium-full-range-driver--264-894
Steve
Called PE..they helped me fix the issue..it was on my end...I am a computer idiot for sure !!
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Why do all the online comments / reviews have these speakers at $7500, yet the mfr sells them direct at $2750? :scratch:
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649317115-sale-birch-acoustics-raven-fullrange-speaker-silver-flute-edition/
Going out of business sale?
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Is it a cheaper / inferior driver to what was in the original $7500 Raven?
At only $160 total for the drivers, seems like an awfully big markup for cabinets and profit margin.
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Is it a cheaper / inferior driver to what was in the original $7500 Raven?
At only $160 total for the drivers, seems like an awfully big markup for cabinets and profit margin.
I can't wait for you to say that after you've made stacked plywood cabinets like that, and then tried to make a living off of it...
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The ferrite magnet Silver Flutes and his Ribbon tweeter companion are nice drivers for the price, but there is better drivers at more price-much more w/neo magnet.
At this incredible price hard to beat the Flutes, its on Madisound since 2003/4 at the same low price.
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I can't wait for you to say that after you've made stacked plywood cabinets like that, and then tried to make a living off of it...
Just asking the question, my friend. :roll:
Are you his business partner?
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No
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Is it a cheaper / inferior driver to what was in the original $7500 Raven?
At only $160 total for the drivers, seems like an awfully big markup for cabinets and profit margin.
the same can be said for virtually every manufactured speaker available.
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The speaker cabinets are beautiful, you can definitely see that a lot of thought, work and detail has gone into them. It would interesting to see how they would perform with a better driver something like AER or Voxativ.
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My Brines Acoustics M18-F200 (floor standing single driver speakers) cost $1525 at the time (American hand made) and used $750 worth of drivers. (The extra $25 was for the commissioning fee.) Note that Bob Brines works by himself out of his garage.
The Birch Acoustic speakers do use a very elaborate, labor intensive, and inefficient design concept which would justify use of high quality drivers.
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I had a pair of the "Finch":
http://www.birchacoustics.com/filterless_fullrange_004.htm
Beautiful workmanship. Certainly could be called an "artisanal" speaker, with a really sweet sound. So I think that worrying about driver quality kinda misses the point. I did find the driver listed on Parts Express, I don't recall the model, but I do recall that it is nothing special. The speaker cabinet and the binding posts (more clamps than posts, actually) clearly are a labor of love. Also, the shipping crate for these little speakers is a hand-built wooden crate that weighs a lot more than do the speakers.
I sent a picture of the speakers to a buddy of mine, and he immediately wanted them Having no real need for them, I sold them to him. He has them in his office, and drives them with one of the Naim Uniti pieces.
Still have some pics:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122988)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122987)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122989)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122984)
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I had a pair of the "Finch":
http://www.birchacoustics.com/filterless_fullrange_004.htm
Beautiful workmanship. Certainly could be called an "artisanal" speaker, with a really sweet sound. So I think that worrying about driver quality kinda misses the point. I did find the driver listed on Parts Express, I don't recall the model, but I do recall that it is nothing special. The speaker cabinet and the binding posts (more clamps than posts, actually) clearly are a labor of love. Also, the shipping crate for these little speakers is a hand-built wooden crate that weighs a lot more than do the speakers.
I sent a picture of the speakers to a buddy of mine, and he immediately wanted them Having no real need for them, I sold them to him. He has them in his office, and drives them with one of the Naim Uniti pieces.
Still have some pics:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122988)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122987)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122989)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=122984)
Those are really beautiful, not a bad price either. My only complaint would be that the specs don't look efficient enough for me to use my tube amps with.
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This lateral BR duct is very good to help form a central soundstage.
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This lateral BR duct is very good to help form a central soundstage.
Really?
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Those are really beautiful, not a bad price either. My only complaint would be that the specs don't look efficient enough for me to use my tube amps with.
Yeah, I doubt that they'd do well with low wattage. My gut feeling says that they'd do okay with a 6BQ5 push-pull amp (with 15 substantial watts per channel), but not much less than that. Plus, they're inherently warm-sounding, so good-quality solid state does make a good match. I now have a Virtue Audio Sensation integrated amp with a substantial power supply upgrade, which kinda makes me wish I'd kept the speakers.
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My Brines Acoustics M18-F200 (floor standing single driver speakers) cost $1525 at the time (American hand made) and used $750 worth of drivers. (The extra $25 was for the commissioning fee.) Note that Bob Brines works by himself out of his garage.
Just saw this. I am a bit more proud of my work these days. If you look at my posted prices and do the math, you will see that I charge $1000 over costs for a pair of floor-standers. But you get free shipping! Oh, yeah, shipping is part of my costs, isn't it. For what it's worth, I do sell a half a dozen sets a year.
It's a funny thing about audio gear. Once I bumped my profit from $500 to $1000, my unit sales actually increased. Seems that customers take a $2500 speaker more seriously than a $1500 speaker.
Bob
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Just saw this. I am a bit more proud of my work these days. If you look at my posted prices and do the math, you will see that I charge $1000 over costs for a pair of floor-standers. But you get free shipping! Oh, yeah, shipping is part of my costs, isn't it. For what it's worth, I do sell a half a dozen sets a year.
It's a funny thing about audio gear. Once I bumped my profit from $500 to $1000, my unit sales actually increased. Seems that customers take a $2500 speaker more seriously than a $1500 speaker.
Bob
This is the Stereophile effect.
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Just saw this. I am a bit more proud of my work these days. If you look at my posted prices and do the math, you will see that I charge $1000 over costs for a pair of floor-standers. But you get free shipping! Oh, yeah, shipping is part of my costs, isn't it. For what it's worth, I do sell a half a dozen sets a year.
It's a funny thing about audio gear. Once I bumped my profit from $500 to $1000, my unit sales actually increased. Seems that customers take a $2500 speaker more seriously than a $1500 speaker.
Bob
I second the craftsmanship of Bob. All the designs he has produced and of the 3 that I own, I can clearly see the marked increase in craftsmanship from my first commissioned pair that goes back to almost 12 years to his most recent that I just took delivery this year. :thumb: