AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Lab => Topic started by: SET Man on 23 Nov 2019, 10:00 pm
-
Hey!
My amps will turns 20 years old next month and as luck would have it, one of my coupling cap in one of my monoblock failed :? Took me a while to go over the whole thing and found the cap in question here is a Jensen Copper PIO 0.22uf 630V.
Now I'm looking for a new pair to replace these in my amps. Since I built my amps with these Jensen caps and pretty much voiced everything with them I thought I would just replace them with a new pair. So, I looked up at the Parts Connexion and look like Jensen after almost 100 years is going out of business making caps by the end of the year!
So, now I'm thinking maybe I should try some other caps out there. OK, yes I know about Jon L's Caps comparison thread...
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0)
A great wealth of info there and I thanks him for starting that. But since I'm not comparing any caps here so I started this thread here. So, with some snooping around at Parts Connexion and Sonic Craft of which have a circle here on AC. I narrowed down to a few that I'm interested in...
Audio Note Copper PIO. This is similar to the Jensen and I believe older AN caps were made by Jensen. But now look like AN are making their own caps now.
https://www.partsconnexion.com/ANCUCAP-81837.html (https://www.partsconnexion.com/ANCUCAP-81837.html)
Jupiter Copper Foil. I know these have been out for a while now. I have to admit that I do like the idea and fascinated of using natural components. And look like many people like them also.
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-copper-foil-022uf-600vdc-p-4307 (http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/jupiter-copper-foil-022uf-600vdc-p-4307)
Miflex KPCU. I noticed this one in Jon L's cap comparison post. Look like a new comer and looks great for the price I must say.
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/miflex-kpcu-022uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5290 (http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/miflex-kpcu-022uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5290)
I know there's a lot more! So many options that my head is going to explode! :o
Anyway, right now I have Russian K40Y .22uf 400V left over from my tinkering with my DAC and Pre amp in my amps right now. Haven't listen to them yet but will do so soon.
So, if any of you here have any recommendations or opinions on these caps or caps you are using in your system right now, especially those with SET amps I'd love to hear from you guys.
Buddy
-
I've tried them all and my preference is the Miflex. I run several SET amps. An Elekit Japan 2a3/300b, an TAL Korneff Type 45 and an Almarro A318B. I also run a pair of single ended pentode monoblocks, the Dennis Had Inspire MB12's.
-
In my Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3 SET I have tried Mundorf Silver/Oil, K40Y PIO, FT-3 Teflon and Jupiter Copper Foil coupling capacitors. I liked the Jupiter best followed by the FT-3. The K40Y were limited in the frequency extremes. Mundorf were solid. Have not tried the Miflex but have read good things about them.
-
I would go with caps from a major capacitor manufacture. They are made on big expensive machines and they have big Quality Control departments. Their caps won't fail.
-
I would go with caps from a major capacitor manufacture. They are made on big expensive machines and they have big Quality Control departments. Their caps won't fail.
Hey!
In someway you're right about that. But even those caps from big companies can fail also, but less likely. For this application as coupling cap and this is where cap can make a big impact on sound, I'm not worry much about it fail. But for power supply, yes I'll want more reliability for sure.
In my Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3 SET I have tried Mundorf Silver/Oil, K40Y PIO, FT-3 Teflon and Jupiter Copper Foil coupling capacitors. I liked the Jupiter best followed by the FT-3. The K40Y were limited in the frequency extremes. Mundorf were solid. Have not tried the Miflex but have read good things about them.
You're right about the K40Y. I listen to them for a few hours and I really missed the Jensen caps. With the K40Y, the detail is there, the mid is nice, but it just didn't have the airy extended high like the Jensen, I actually thought that my supertweeters were not connected! Also, the K40Y have flatter with less depth of sound stage and less dynamic swing. Well, those Jensen caps have almost 20 years of break in though. And I guess this is why I took the K40Y out after I tried the in my phono stage and DAC.
I've tried them all and my preference is the Miflex. I run several SET amps. An Elekit Japan 2a3/300b, an TAL Korneff Type 45 and an Almarro A318B. I also run a pair of single ended pentode monoblocks, the Dennis Had Inspire MB12's.
Hmmm... Miflex is that good. So, how would you characterize the sound between the Miflex and Jupiter? Miflex is sure cost a lot less than Jupiter. I might even pick up Miflex copper poly caps to by pass the output caps in my DAC also.
Man! My brain hurt thinking about this, so many options these days. When I built my amp 20 years ago there weren't so many options like today.
Buddy
-
one of my coupling cap in one of my monoblock failed
Want try a choke transformer?
http://ogonowski.eu/transformers/chokes/
-
Hmmm... Miflex is that good. So, how would you characterize the sound between the Miflex and Jupiter? Miflex is sure cost a lot less than Jupiter. I might even pick up Miflex copper poly caps to by pass the output caps in my DAC also.
Man! My brain hurt thinking about this, so many options these days. When I built my amp 20 years ago there weren't so many options like today.
Buddy
I ran Jupiters for a long time in all my amps, and I still run them in my speaker crossovers. IME, the Jupiters were great and I'd have been perfectly happy with them if I'd never heard the Miflex copper caps. Basically the Miflex matches the Jupiters in tonal beauty and emotion, while exceeding them in clarity, soundstage and bass.
-
I ran Jupiters for a long time in all my amps, and I still run them in my speaker crossovers. IME, the Jupiters were great and I'd have been perfectly happy with them if I'd never heard the Miflex copper caps. Basically the Miflex matches the Jupiters in tonal beauty and emotion, while exceeding them in clarity, soundstage and bass.
What about Miflex prices?
-
What about Miflex prices?
Jupiter coppers are at least twice as expensive as the Miflix coppers, usually more.
-
This is a great option, thanks for inform :thumb:
Jeff also have Miflex
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/miflex-kpcu-02-022uf-600vdc-copper-foil-polypaper-in-oil-p-5311
-
I ran Jupiters for a long time in all my amps, and I still run them in my speaker crossovers. IME, the Jupiters were great and I'd have been perfectly happy with them if I'd never heard the Miflex copper caps. Basically the Miflex matches the Jupiters in tonal beauty and emotion, while exceeding them in clarity, soundstage and bass.
Hey!
Thanks for the infos Tyson. Unfortunately, both Sonic Craft and Parts Connexion are out of the Milflex .22uf KPCU. And with that I'm likely going to missed out on the current sale price once they get the new shipment in. :cry:
Well, I'm listening to my system with the K40Y in my amps right now. They are not bad considering how much they cost, probably better than some new poly cap. But I still missed the sound of those old Jensen. Anyway, still I'm happy to have amps back working again and knowing that it wasn't anything serious, pretty robust these babies are so far. Now I just have to wait to get those Milflex caps and try them in my amps. To be continue...
Buddy
-
I just ordered some Miflex KPCU from Sonic Craft, so they are back in stock. Last thing I need is some more capacitors, but oh, well...
-
My modded KEF Q100. Before with very cheap NOS Styroflex / Polystyrene 0.010 uF 600Vdc (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-deals-massdrop-ebay-amazon-etc-thread-on-audio-product-sales.3118/post-265651) as bypass.
And Würth 150 kHz 8 mm ferrite.
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-styroflex-bypass.jpg)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-filter-rockwool.jpg)
Now with MiFlex KPCU-01 0.022 uF 600Vdc.
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-MiFlex-bypass-2.jpg)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-MiFlex-bypass.jpg)
and.... AMAZING improvement!!!!!!!
-
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-deals-massdrop-ebay-amazon-etc-thread-on-audio-product-sales.3118/post-265263
(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/humblehomemadehifi-miflex-kpcu-01-600vdc-png.38613/)
Next week, the Mills 0.68 Ohms 5 watts resistors. You know, step by step to verify.
-
Yep, the Miflex are the real deal. After I heard what they could do in my Dennis Had Inspire single ended pentode monoblocks, I've gone through and upgraded to Miflex for every single cap that's in the signal path in my system. Amps, preamp and as bypass caps on my speakers. Every time, amazing improvement.
-
First I made one speaker to compare with the other. The difference was very evident. When the second too, AMAZING.
It needs only few minutes to burn. Styroflex needed some hours. With me was the same person as when I used the styroflex and before the ferrite. With the ferrite the change in bass was spectacular and we both appreciate it. In contrast with the bypass only I appreciated it. Now we have both hallucinated and after others.
-
Miflex for price/performance ratio.
-
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/188996-capacitor-bypassing-cascading-post2572035.html
-
By the way, to make a bypass it is better a small cap with at least 1/100 value than the big.
Days ago I was quite entertaining doing simulations with LspCAD, thanks to the fact that Zvu passed me the files with the KEF Q100 measurements.
Bypass with 0.022 uF aka 22 nF
3.9 uF + 0.022 uF = 3.922 uF
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/LspCAD-KEF-Q100-bypass-22nF-SPL-graph.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/LspCAD-KEF-Q100-bypass-22nF-SPL-graph.png)
Bypass with 0.220 uF aka 220 nF
3.9 uF + 0.220 uF = 4.12 uF
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/LspCAD-KEF-Q100-bypass-220nF-SPL-graph.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/LspCAD-KEF-Q100-bypass-220nF-SPL-graph.png)
The crossing point shifts slightly to the left and changes the SPL graph a little.
-
Sometimes is a good thing but without measurements...
-
https://www.google.com/search?q=diyaudio.com+miflex+kpcu-01
-> https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/331927-kzk-white-line-capacitor-review-russia-love-music-post5969552.html
-> https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/331927-kzk-white-line-capacitor-review-russia-love-music-post5986820.html
...The ClarityCAP CSA alone is natural but edgy, definitely not good. The ClarityCAP CSA+KZK K78-34+Miflex KPCU-01 gives the best harmony.
I also tried only the ClarityCap CSA+KZK-K78-34 but was missing the micro detail with the soundstage and the global warmness. Yes, the Miflex is very important and with such a small value is a strong influencer in the sound.
The result:
Extremely butter-liquid-silky smooth with huge soundstage, with rich organic micro fine detail. Unbelievable experience. We listened many different kind of music, classical, jazz, disco, latin and simply fantastic. We always turn the volume up
-
https://www.google.com/search?q=audiocircle+miflex+kpcu-01
-> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.msg1751828#msg1751828
-
Remember that there are differences between CAD capacitors, resistors & inductors and real world capacitors, resistors & inductors.
-
I know very well but I did not expect such an impressive improvement. Better than before yes but not so much! In other audio systems less optimized than mine (very optimized ALL componentes, Win10 too) and with recordings of lower quality and dynamic range I guess the differences will be smaller. It is evident, to me, that Bennic's yellow condenser, as usual in many crossovers, was acting like a big bottleneck.
That is why I bought Mills resistors, because they have very low inductance. The problem with all these expensive audiophile components is that they do not specify the values that make them superior. That is, in addition to the resistance they should publish the value of the residual inductance of the resistor and thus be able to emulate it in the software before the purchase.
-
To finish with the resistors off topic, days ago I commented about the importance of low inductance in the BIG resistors used to make measures -> it can changes the THD+N values up to 6 dB!
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/344540-alpha-nirvana-39w-8ohm-class-amp-post5981618.html
BIG IMG: https://clk.works/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/img_5b0780d0a980e.png
-
I am listening:
Various - Saturday Night Fever (The Original Movie Sound Track) (1977), Vinyl, RSO, US
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/music/6958-playing-listening-post5998156.html
(https://img.discogs.com/pLvCWZc1z3CY2y_BjTZggr6CgCA=/fit-in/600x596/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2632748-1294186071.jpeg.jpg)
And the sound improvement is incredible. You have to listen to it to believe it.
-
While the Milfex are VG the Duelund is just better overall. Do not like the forward presentation. Does not sound linear to me.
charles
-
It will depend a lot on the system I think. I usually listen in the near field with this second system. The small coaxial of the KEF Q100 creates a great soundstage.
One of the limitations is that it not was depth, something expected from the near field. These weeks I have achieved the depth I wanted so much all this time. Last week I got a little more after retouching the amplifier, hence it took a week to make the bypass, to get used to the new sound and that it had stabilized.
Which Duelund to make bypass? With value about 22 nF.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/duelund_capacitors.html
Only I can see minimum 0.1 uF, aka 100 nF. And they cost ten times more, almost twenty!!!
-
Here, 0.01 uF.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/duelund-pure-silver-foil-precision-bypass-capacitors.html
-> https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/duelund-pure-silver-foil-precision-bypass-capacitors.html € 107 (Brittish VAT included)
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
Duelund Silver Bypass Capacitor 0,01uF / 100VDC - 2% tolerance
Technical specifications (according to manufacturer): "Precision Speaker Capacitor; Pure Silver Foil; handmade in Denmark".
Sound: In one word: amazing! I have used these 0,01uF pure silver foil capacitors as bypass capacitors in many different systems. In just about every case there was an improvement in overall coherency and realism of tone. With realism of tone I mean that acoustic instruments and vocalists seemed much more tangible, more intimate. The Duelund Silver Bypass Capacitor brings out a certain harmonic richness in overtones, for example with brass wind instruments the tone gets a sort of "glow" making them so much more realistic. Big-band music is bright and warm at the same time if you know what I mean, just like in real-life. And now for a cliché: the Duelund Silver Bypass Capacitor really does remove a curtain from the sound, creating more depth, insight and it generally does a very good job in cleaning things up. It does this without getting harsh nor adding artificial emphasis on any part of the spectrum, something that can happen with certain types of bypass caps.
They even scared me once: my personal reference system uses a 1-inch beryllium compression driver connected to a tractrix horn that flares out to 29 inches. This "tweeter" has no resistors in the signal-path and is driven by a first order network, so only one capacitor in the direct signal-path. It works like an acoustic magnifying glass. I was fiddeling around as usual, tuning the value of this capacitor in steps of 0,10uF but the sound didn't quite seem to fall into place how I wanted it to. Then I decided to listen if the 0,01uF Duelund Silver Bypass Capacitor could help out here. Bingo! Makiko Hirabayashi's recording "Surely" (that I know very well) has some small bells that are used on several of the tracks. I thought I knew how they sounded but with the bypass capacitor in the network the bells were so realistic, it scared me :-) I am so pleased with these universal bypass capacitors that I have decided to keep them in stock.
Verdict: add about 2 points to whatever capacitor you are bypassing
-
I just ordered some Miflex KPCU from Sonic Craft, so they are back in stock. Last thing I need is some more capacitors, but oh, well...
Hey!
I tried to order a pair of .22uf KPCU with their "L2" matching but no stock show on the cart page. I emailed Sonic Craft and got a quick respond stated that they just don't have enough to do a matched pair for me right now for that value.
While the Milfex are VG the Duelund is just better overall. Do not like the forward presentation. Does not sound linear to me.
charles
Charles, Duelund caps are crazy expensive. Wish I could afford them and have room for them. Anyway, I'm not a fan of forward presentation also. And I've read the "Humble Homemade Hifi" cap comparison and they mentioned about that also. So, Jupiter caps are still on the table for me. But Milflex are not expensive, I might buy them too and see which I like better in my amps.
My modded KEF Q100. Before with very cheap NOS Styroflex / Polystyrene 0.010 uF 600Vdc (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-deals-massdrop-ebay-amazon-etc-thread-on-audio-product-sales.3118/post-265651) as bypass.
And Würth 150 kHz 8 mm ferrite.
.....
Good job on speaker upgrade Maty but I'm not sure how this will help with my search here for coupling caps to be use in my SET amps.
By the way, I really don't have use for caps, inductors, resistors for my speakers anyway..., except one 0.47uf for high pass to my supertweeters.
Buddy
-
See if I am skeptical -by formation- that I still maintain the original wiring. In his day I selected Neotech at the request of Danny Richie but I did not make the purchase because I was satisfied with the cheap NOS styroflex.
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/hificollective-shop-kef-q100-crossover-up.png)
When I change them, I have selected with the logic, that is, thinking about the inferences -> star quad geometry. Cheap Canare 4S11, like very expensive (with very good measurements in Canadian site) floor US loudspeakers.
Star quad, the best geometry to build audio and power cables
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156793.0
BTW: First I have heated the Miflex copper legs, I have smeared with flux and I have welded with normal tin.
-
Only if you have caps in the audio-path of your amplifier, I guess it is with tubes and not Direct couple.
Picture?
Gainclone with LM3886 with an audiophile/boutique cap. Here you can bypass with Miflex 600Vdc 0.022uF the cheaper cap and you spend money.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/chip-amps/234032-my_ref-fremen-edition-build-thread-tutorial-post3901718.html
(https://i56.servimg.com/u/f56/16/82/91/97/dscn2911.jpg)
Don Sach's DS2. Custom 6SN7 Preamplifier
http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20line%20stage.html
(http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/CitationRestoration_html_files/8273.jpg)
My latest and greatest version features OLED display and relay input switching. It can only be built in the cherry or walnut case. The special model has every option. (photo with large display at right)
• 64 step remote Khozmo attenuator
• relay input switching, one xlr input and 3 rca inputs
• Duelund wiring
• all film cap power supply
• Polish oil caps on output
• 4 CV181-T tubes included
BTW, we can see a RF/EMI inlet filter too at mains input :D
-
By the way, I really don't have use for caps, inductors, resistors for my speakers anyway..., except one 0.47uf for high pass to my supertweeters.
My older Big 3-ways (1991), rear bass-reflex, paper cones, 91 dB with supertweeter -aligned with rear bas-reflex- (18.1 kHz), full-range (950 Hz) and woofer 27 cm / 10.6" scheme and... kidnapped by TV, family and bad recordings. I know, very strange.
Image updated. Older was wrong!
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-filtro-esquema-tres-vias.png)
Hummm, maybe the supertweeter is inverted.
It does not make much sense, for now, to improve the components or create a new filter. Or to buy new loudspeakers (KEF perhaps). Better a second system.
-
The last picture, DAC output.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/blog/dac-output-stage-capacitor-sound-test.html
(https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/jaudioresearch_insta.png)
"I'm guessing this test isn't much about duelund or Mundorf sio,...everyone knows they are amazing.
Miflex is the new cap on the block and it's OK on its own...but the midrange is quite shy and top end slightly highlighted so it's not so well balanced to my personal opinion.
But it has the best bass out of 3 caps!.
Bypassing Miflex 0.47uf with Jupiter copper 0.047uf....fixes that problem.
You will get great midrange of Jupiter copper !amazing 3d sound stage and bass to die for."
But the final value is different too: 0.47uF + 0.047uF = 0.517uF
Again, better 1/100, I think.
-
I am creating a purchase to estimate the cost based on the components chosen in hificollective.co.uk for the Big 3-ways and I only can order one Miflex KPCU-01 0.022 uF !
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-filtro-esquema-tres-vias.png)
Without electrolytics (68 uF), maybe:
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-components-101-euro.png)
Miflex with VAT: 18 €. 77 + 18 = 95 € at home.
* The important cap: 68 uF of the full range, bypassed with Miflex KPCU-01 0.022uF.
* The 1 uF (supertweeter) bypassed with NOS styroflex 10nF 600Vdc of the coaxials.
* The woofer with Würth 150 kHz 8mm ferrites (I have two without use).
-
To finish with the strange Big 3-ways, the SPL graph with and without super tweeter. Speakers simulated as 8.2 Ohms. LspCAD soft.
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-LspCAD-SPL-graph-with-8-Ohms.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-LspCAD-SPL-graph-with-8-Ohms.png)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-LspCAD-SPL-graph-with-8-Ohms-without-supertweeter.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-LspCAD-SPL-graph-with-8-Ohms-without-supertweeter.png)
Without the super tweeter the sound is less airy. The simulation confirms it.
-
Interesting info about super tweeter, by Danny Richie
How to add a super tweeter, or how not to
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161633.0
This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164641.0
-
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/346373-cheap-coupling-cap-post6003696.html
EFD RA31 capacitor condenseur - Google Search (http://"https://www.google.com/search?q=EFD+RA31+capacitor+condenseur")
-> [PDF] https://exxelia.com/uploads/PDF/59bac6f55a3ad.pdf (https://exxelia.com/uploads/PDF/59bac6f55a3ad.pdf)
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Exelia-capacitor-performance-frequency-model.png)
-
Amazing improvement.
Alberta Hunter - Amtrak Blues (1980), Vinyl, Columbia, US
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/music/6958-playing-listening-post6006775.html
(https://img.discogs.com/EUuIThonoXZ6wBVoln1pebNZpFM=/fit-in/600x594/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-602749-1505592866-6155.jpeg.jpg)
DR14
******* ********
Tomorrow I will change the Bennic resistor with Mills 5 watts. The same person will be with me as when I made the previous changes in KEF Q100 crossover to verify if we are both able to notice change -how much, one or none.
-
Received Miflex KPCU 0.22 uF 600V caps, and right off the bat, there are two HUGE problems:
1: Miflex is gigantic compared to other 0.22 uF caps, much larger than Jupiter Copper or VH CuTF, larger than Duelund CAST. It will not fit where I intended to place them :duh:
2. To make matters worse, Miflex is radial design, which makes it even more difficult to fit in many places designed for axial caps.
Sonic Craft does not allow returns on passive components (which I understand for a small company), so I am looking for someone who may want to trade a pair of used Jupiter copper 0.22 uF/600V with my brand new pair of Miflex 0.22 uF/600V caps. I can throw in a pair of some other caps (like a nice pair of Vishay Roederstein MKP-1839 bypass caps or something). :green:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49220515893_c48d6c0e38_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hZs1yn)MiflexJupiter (https://flic.kr/p/2hZs1yn) by drjlo2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60017347@N03/), on Flickr
-
Received Miflex KPCU 0.22 uF 600V caps, and right off the bat, there are two HUGE problems:
1: Miflex is gigantic compared to other 0.22 uF caps, much larger than Jupiter Copper or VH CuTF, larger than Duelund CAST. It will not fit where I intended to place them :duh:
2. To make matters worse, Miflex is radial design, which makes it even more difficult to fit in many places designed for axial caps.
Sonic Craft does not allow returns on passive components (which I understand for a small company), so I am looking for someone who may want to trade a pair of used Jupiter copper 0.22 uF/600V with my brand new pair of Miflex 0.22 uF/600V caps. I can throw in a pair of some other caps (like a nice pair of Vishay Roederstein MKP-1839 bypass caps or something). :green:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49220515893_c48d6c0e38_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hZs1yn)MiflexJupiter (https://flic.kr/p/2hZs1yn) by drjlo2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60017347@N03/), on Flickr
I'll make that trade.
-
Great! You got PM :thumb:
-
Replaced the cheap cement resistor of Bennic 0R68 5 watts with another of Mills MRA05 5 watts 0.68 Ohms. The air runs below. It has taken a while to remove the cemented resistance, which was also stuck. Luckily we were two people, one desoldering and the other stretching.
[PDF] https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/mills_data_0.pdf
I have waited for the same person with whom I made the previous changes to be with me: bypass with the cheap NOS styroflex / polystyrene and after with Miflex KPCU-01 0.01 uF 600 Vdc.
First left speaker (photo). The difference was very audible in front the right. With the two speakers improved the sound has improved greatly. It is as if the tweeters had been behind a curtain!
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-Miflex-KPCU-01-001uF-capacitor-Mills-06R8-5-watts-resistor.jpg) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-Miflex-KPCU-01-001uF-capacitor-Mills-06R8-5-watts-resistor.jpg)
And yes, you can see steel nuts and... in the speaker connectors. The magnet is your friend.
In the end I will end up building the filter on a wood and point-to-point connections, in addition to changing the wiring and connectors!
Klipsch RP-600M Upgrade, by Danny Richie
-> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.msg1770733#msg1770733
-> https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.msg1771815#msg1771815
-
Moved
-
When you get ready to build out your crossover on a separate board, check out the Path Audio resistors, they are the best I've used for speaker crossovers:
https://www.partsconnexion.com/path-audio-resistors.html
-
Very expensive these Polish resistors! In EU too!
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/pathaudio_resistors.html
http://www.pathaudio.eu/
You have to understand me, what I am doing with the crossover goes against my academic knowledge, hence it has been so cautious, going step by step to verify every possible improvement.
Before I will try to solder directly the original cables to verify the steel nuts. It does not cost me a penny to do it. Of course, together with the other person who has always been with me when making the changes and who is also as surprised as me; including the 150 kHz Würth ferrite addition on the woofer cables.
Thank you very much for the recommendation.
-
They are 1% precision, where do you have seen the price?
-
Moved
-
The reason I like the Path Audio resistors so much is they are the only ones I could find that are made out of copper. I've been on a mission to remove ALL non-copper parts from the signal path in my system.
-
Tyson, Danny Richie does not sell those very expensive resistances, so you will have to change them later, once you know the new values?
In his day I carefully researched the products and the company that manufactures Miflex and the same with Mills. The expensive Mundorf (they was my first choice, two years? ago) and others too.
Path Audio Resistors page (http://www.pathaudio.eu/) only generates distrust, at least to me; the leap of faith is very big!
PS: I hope to see you soon in a video on the YouTube channel.
-
Moved
-
Moved
-
Comments about resitors moved to a new thread: Resistors with very low inductance -> speaker crossover (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166906.0)
-
Hey!
Hmmm.... this thread sure got pretty long, maybe I should change the subject title to "Maty's speaker xover upgrade" :icon_lol:
Anyway....
Received Miflex KPCU 0.22 uF 600V caps, and right off the bat, there are two HUGE problems:
1: Miflex is gigantic compared to other 0.22 uF caps, much larger than Jupiter Copper or VH CuTF, larger than Duelund CAST. It will not fit where I intended to place them :duh:
2. To make matters worse, Miflex is radial design, which makes it even more difficult to fit in many places designed for axial caps.
Sonic Craft does not allow returns on passive components (which I understand for a small company), so I am looking for someone who may want to trade a pair of used Jupiter copper 0.22 uF/600V with my brand new pair of Miflex 0.22 uF/600V caps. I can throw in a pair of some other caps (like a nice pair of Vishay Roederstein MKP-1839 bypass caps or something). :green:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49220515893_c48d6c0e38_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hZs1yn)MiflexJupiter (https://flic.kr/p/2hZs1yn) by drjlo2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/60017347@N03/), on Flickr
I'll make that trade.
Man! Those Miflex caps are pretty big! But I think I do have room in my amps for them. But look like Tyson already got the first dip on them. :lol:
OK, were was I on this? So, I did more reading and research on this and with a few mentioned that the Miflex can sound a bit forward. I decided to go with the Jupiter .22uf 600V copper paper and wax. Well, as mentioned before I fascinated by the use of old fashion natural materials in them. And they were still on sale at the Sonic Craft. As for Miflex, since they are not terribly expensive, I might try them down the road when they are on sale again. Although, it is a pain to lift my amps up and swap the caps in over again, they are 45lbs each. :weights:
I have been breaking the Jupiter caps the past 7 days 24/7 using my 40wpc Rotel integ amp speaker out to the caps and to dummy load resistor. Not at a high voltage but better than nothing.
One more thing, I actually realized that I do have another matched pair of Jensen .22uf PIO caps around, they are in my DIY NOS DAC as by pass caps. I don't really use that DAC now since I like the old NOS DAC better, so I might take them out an put them in my amps if Jupiter caps don't work out. Well, after all the past 20 years I've been tuning and listening to Jensen PIO caps in my amps.
Anyway, I'm putting the Jupitor caps in my amps tonight, but not sure if I will have time to fire up my system to really listen to them tonight. To be continue...
Buddy
-
Deleted
You are right. coupling != bypass. My fault. You know, English is not my first language.
-
Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures! by Tyson
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166996.msg1778521#msg1778521
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203619)
Hey!
Although it is good to see members who are passionate and active here on AC.
But with all due respect Maty, again the post above have nothing to do with my post which is about caps in line level in tube equipment. I will not by pass my .22uf caps with any caps.
Anyway, I'm still working on my cap search but it will take a while, currently I have Miflex .22uf KPCU in my amps still. I want to give time listening to each one in my amps before I decided which one will stay.
But perhaps again, I should just change this thread to Maty's xover caps, resistors and etc talk?
Buddy
-
.... currently I have Miflex .22uf KPCU in my amps still. ....
Buddy, I thought you got Jupiter copper foil caps. Maybe Maty got you confused. :)
I really like the Jupiter caps in my Bottlehead Stereomour.
Boris
-
Buddy...my recommendation is to stick with the Jensen if you still like the sound of your system. I wouldn't be concerned about them going away...worry about that in another 20 years.
-
Buddy...my recommendation is to stick with the Jensen if you still like the sound of your system. I wouldn't be concerned about them going away...worry about that in another 20 years.
Buddy, I thought you got Jupiter copper foil caps. Maybe Maty got you confused. :)
I really like the Jupiter caps in my Bottlehead Stereomour.
Boris
Hey!
Bill, that's what I first thought too when I realized that I have another pair of the Jensen. But! Of course my curiosity got the best of me and I can't help it! :icon_lol:
So, here I am with these. Pick your flavor!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203644)
Boris, I was going to update this post when I'm ready. Yes, I had the Jupiter in my amps for a while and spent a good amount of time with them. And I can see why you like them. They do have a great tone overall.
But I can't help it so I got Miflex to try out also. The Miflex are much larger in size compared to the Jensen and Jupiter, luckily I do have room in my amps for them, but I needed to zip tied them in place. Like the Jupiter before I use my Rotel 40wpc integ amp to break them at speaker level for a week before I put try them in my amp, not ideal though since the voltage in my amp is higher but better than nothing.
I've only spent about 8 hours listening to the Miflex so I can't really say much about them for now. I want to take my time and make sure I really I get this right and keep the pair I really like in my amp. It is a pain to lift my amps and flip them over to change caps since they are 45lbs each.
After the Miflex I will put my extra pair of the Jensen back in just to see. Of course Jensen is gone, I think the closest now I think is the Audio Note UK copper PIO caps. There are two 0.22uf couplings caps in my amps, the other pair is also Jensen but they are OK, but replace the other two with says Miflex can be a challenge since the space there is tighter. And the saga continue on...
Buddy
-
Did you give any thought to VCap ODAM? I have Miflex coupling caps in my preamp, but space limitations mean I had to use a smaller value than is ideal into my low-ish input impedance amp. The ODAM are getting some really positive comments, but I have yet to see a comparison to the Miflex. But the ODAM are much smaller and could fit in smaller quarters. Comments I’ve read about them suggest there’s a chance they’re playing in the same league as Miflex or perhaps even higher. Just curious if you looked into them.
-
Did you give any thought to VCap ODAM? I have Miflex coupling caps in my preamp, but space limitations mean I had to use a smaller value than is ideal into my low-ish input impedance amp. The ODAM are getting some really positive comments, but I have yet to see a comparison to the Miflex. But the ODAM are much smaller and could fit in smaller quarters. Comments I’ve read about them suggest there’s a chance they’re playing in the same league as Miflex or perhaps even higher. Just curious if you looked into them.
Hey!
Hmmm... this is actually the first time I've heard about this ODAM. That's pricey for a poly caps I must say. They are small indeed. No, I don't think I'll try these ODAM cap specially for that price. And I have to admit that tend to like the idea of copper foil cap better than poly caps. But if you don't have room maybe it would worth a try.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203800)
But yes, the Miflex caps are big indeed. This is the biggest problem I see with Miflex. Luckily I do have enough room for them in my amps. By the way, I found that blue zip tie sounds better than the white one... just kidding! :lol:
Anyway, I spent 3 hours listening to the Miflex in my amps tonight and again they are pretty impressive. But! Still I can't say for sure which one, they all each have strengths and weakness :scratch:
Buddy
-
I've tried many of the exotic caps in various tube amps/preamps and speaker crossovers over the years. I've found the Jupiter copper foils always nice, Vcaps more dependent on prior voicing, a bit less natural sound than Jupiter. Better Mundorfs spot light the upper frequencies for me, very impressive in short run, however. Various Duelunds always nice, again, very natural timbres. Lately, I discovered Audyn True Copper Max, using them in my Klipshorn crossovers, very nice timbre, 630v rating, so fine for coupling duty. The Duelund Silver bypass is also very impressive, I was amazed silver could sound so natural, never had good luck using silver anywhere previously. Jantzen Z Superior coppers nice at lower price point, smaller size means they fit where the larger exotics won't.
Never used the Miflex, if I have need will try. I just wonder how long price advantage will remain, may be loss leader to gain toehold in market. I believe the Jensen PIO cap failure you experienced is not unusual, I had those same caps fail in a Cary amp I owned some years ago. Those caps regularly failed in various Cary amps. I do recollect hearing those failures may have been from a bad batch, so perhaps not all those caps prone to failure? I also read somewhere that Duelund purchased assets of Jensen, perhaps those caps will remain in production.
Scott
-
I totally understand the hesitance to give ODAM a try on a .22uF cap size - the prices don't scale very much with size of cap. At the 2.2uF size I would need in my preamp, ODAM is a bit more expensive than Miflex, but cheaper than other copper foil options. So, the question in my case is whether they're just as good as a Miflex for around the same price and smaller dimensions? A friend says they're better than Mundorf Silver/Oil caps in his preamp, but not sure the Mundorf comparison is a good indicator relative to a Miflex. I really don't have the extra cash to just spring and give it a try, so trying to find the best points of comparison I can before I commit any funds.
But this is all a bit off topic - sorry, don't mean to derail the thread with a VCap discussion. Carry on.
-
I've tried many of the exotic caps in various tube amps/preamps and speaker crossovers over the years. I've found the Jupiter copper foils always nice, Vcaps more dependent on prior voicing, a bit less natural sound than Jupiter. Better Mundorfs spot light the upper frequencies for me, very impressive in short run, however. Various Duelunds always nice, again, very natural timbres. Lately, I discovered Audyn True Copper Max, using them in my Klipshorn crossovers, very nice timbre, 630v rating, so fine for coupling duty. The Duelund Silver bypass is also very impressive, I was amazed silver could sound so natural, never had good luck using silver anywhere previously. Jantzen Z Superior coppers nice at lower price point, smaller size means they fit where the larger exotics won't.
Never used the Miflex, if I have need will try. I just wonder how long price advantage will remain, may be loss leader to gain toehold in market. I believe the Jensen PIO cap failure you experienced is not unusual, I had those same caps fail in a Cary amp I owned some years ago. Those caps regularly failed in various Cary amps. I do recollect hearing those failures may have been from a bad batch, so perhaps not all those caps prone to failure? I also read somewhere that Duelund purchased assets of Jensen, perhaps those caps will remain in production.
Scott
Hey!
Was your Cary amp from around late '90s to early 2000's? I got my amps in December 1999 and the Jensen caps that failed was made in 1999 according to the date on it. My amps use 2 in each amp, so maybe I should think about changing the other 2 also.
Anyway, the Jupiter is sure nice indeed, but I'm still undecided right now. Actually I'm thinking of running wires out under my amps so it would be easier to swap them in and out than having to lift my amps up and flip it over, not fun since they are 45lbs each.
Yes, I've read that Duelund bought out Jensen's asset so yes I'd love to see them keep making those Jensen caps again and hope the price would be about the same.
Buddy
-
I totally understand the hesitance to give ODAM a try on a .22uF cap size - the prices don't scale very much with size of cap. At the 2.2uF size I would need in my preamp, ODAM is a bit more expensive than Miflex, but cheaper than other copper foil options. So, the question in my case is whether they're just as good as a Miflex for around the same price and smaller dimensions? A friend says they're better than Mundorf Silver/Oil caps in his preamp, but not sure the Mundorf comparison is a good indicator relative to a Miflex. I really don't have the extra cash to just spring and give it a try, so trying to find the best points of comparison I can before I commit any funds.
But this is all a bit off topic - sorry, don't mean to derail the thread with a VCap discussion. Carry on.
Hey!
No, not off topic at all. Actually I didn't know about the ODAM caps until you pointed it. But they are very pricey. Sure! I would love to try all the caps out there but I just don't money to do that :icon_lol:
Buddy
-
My recommendation is Mundorf Silver/Gold. They sound outstanding, and they are reliable.
Jupiters IMHO are not meant for power amps. They simply can't handle heat, and to me, the Mundorfs sound better.
-
My recommendation is Mundorf Silver/Gold. They sound outstanding, and they are reliable.
Jupiters IMHO are not meant for power amps. They simply can't handle heat, and to me, the Mundorfs sound better.
Hey!
Well, it had been a while again.
Yes, I've read about the Jupiter melting. My SET amps never get that hot inside so that's not a problem.
So after all this time, which was the winner? The old Jensen Copper PIO won. After I tried the Miflex and Jupiter for a good amount of time. I put the spare Jensen I have in my amps and it was back to why I like the sound of these amps at the first place. Well, no surprise there, these amps came with the Jensen 20 years ago and I voiced my system over the years with those caps in them.
Anyway, here's my take on Milfex, Jupiter and Jensen in my system. Keep in mind that I can't do a quick comparison. I lived with Miflex and Jupiter for about 2-3 weeks each.
Jupiter... super smooth sound overall. A bit too syrupy in my system. But it does a wonderful job fleshing out the body of the sound, the acoustic bass have more body and etc. With good depth but lack a bit of airy feel. The high is not as extended though, but the fuller relaxing sound can be a bit very attractive.
Miflex... in my system, it reminded me of having a bit of "Happy face EQ" setting. At first it was great but after awhile, the mid seem to be muted too much for my taste especially when I listen to something like Anna Netrebko, the mid receded a bit too much for me and this make things sound a bit smaller. Great sound stage side to side but lack the feel of the height. I do missed a bit of how the Miflex handle the bass though.
Jensen... well, I'm not surprised that I ended up with the Jensen back in my amps. Overall it is the most musical of the three to me. I think for me the Jensen have the best midrange, at least in my system, it seem to be able to spotlight the singer in the forefront surrounded by the instruments. With expansive soundstage, both side to side, depth and height. I do like that airy feel to the sound, this give me the sense of open spacious feel. OK, the Miflex have a bit better bass but the Jensen is not far behind. Although, I can see some people might feel this could be too forward sounding in some system.
So, with that I'm back where I was 20 years ago, with Jensen Copper PIO caps. The sad part is that Jensen is no longer in business. But Duelund bought out the Jensen's machinery, I emailed Part Connexion and they recommend me Duelund "JAM" line of copper PIO caps, they said they are basically Jensen copper PIO but better built. Well, that's good to know in case I want to stick with this sound.
Well, there you have it folks. Now what to do with Miflex and Jupiter caps? I don't know. :scratch:
Buddy
-
Miflex KPCU-01 0.047uF 600Vdc
http://www.bartola.co.uk/valves/2020/05/05/300b-se-amp-build-part-v-fixed-bias/
[Big IMG, link] https://bartola.co.uk/valves/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/IMG_0172.jpg