[macrojack]

Solar panels, plus an electric car and re-usable bags/packaging, and a focus on fresh (not boxed/processed) food that's been locally grown, in season, seems to go a long way toward lowering your overall footprint.  These are all things I do or plan on doing in the next few years as budget allows.  Are there any other "big" areas I'm missing that I can reduce my footprint?

LED light bulbs made a big difference here. We recycle and compost resulting in only about a half can of trash per week.
We recently unplugged the old freezer in the garage since we don't seem to need it any more. I had a vapor barrier installed in our crawlspace. At the same time we closed off the vents in the foundation and plugged all the perforations between crawl and main floor.Then we closed all the perforations in the ceiling and blew in R-49 worth of cellulose insulation. Then we bought Graber double cellular blinds for our east and west windows, getting blackout version for the ones facing west. Won't know what we've accomplished until winter but we feel good now. With any luck our good feelings will be vindicated when the heating bills roll in.
One other thing that might seem counter is we installed a ductless mini-split AC system. Calculations indicate that it may not use any more juice than the swamp cooler it replaced. The swamper ran full tilt all the time and was sometimes unable to keep up. The AC has an inverter system that is supposed to greatly reduce electric consumption. We'll see. I'm hoping all these other measures will cause the AC to see only occasional use. In any case, we have so much extra production from the panels. Almost forgot - we installed a roof mounted solar electric attic fan to reduce the AC load, keep humidity out of our new insulation, and prolong the life of our shingles. Also decided to replace overhead bathroom fans with highly efficient Panasonic models with ducting so that they actually exhaust rather than just humidifying the attic. Last year we spent about $650 on natural gas - hoping to cut that down to about $300. We have baseboard hot water heat and gas cooking along with a Rinnai on-demand water heater.
I hope these ideas help you, Tyson.

[macrojack]

I forgot to mention the clothesline. And I've read that there are new heat pump clothes dryers happening. Of course, they won't be cheaper than solar drying but they'll work better in the winter in Denver. Word has it that the heat pump dryers use 50% less electricity and eliminate the dryer vent which is said to compromise temperature stability in your home significantly. If you've ever opened the dryer door and been hit with a cold blast, you should be able to relate. Laundry, cooking and refrigeration are all things you could consider modifying for reduced impact.

[JLM]

Corrections/confirmations to the last few posts:

RDavidson has the carbon footprint concept down.

Yes, conserve whenever possible.  Macrojack, those are great suggestions.

Best to buy everything locally sourced and stop driving/flying.  One of reasons for my retirement was to save 25,000 miles/year of driving.

Yes natural gas powered vehicles (cars, trucks, ships, trains) is the best short term solution.  Growing up we had a propane powered truck (that hauled 40,000 pounds of grain).  (Natural gas is cleaner, cheaper, and more powerful per cubic foot than propane.)

Electric/hybrid electric cars use lots of batteries that cause huge amounts of environmental damage to produce and dispose of.  Consider more fuel efficiency gas cars if doing mostly urban driving or diesel if doing mostly rural driving.

Electrical utility transmission/utilization losses are roughly 80% as stated.  Big power plants can't be switched on/off instantly to match demand, so most is wasted during non-peak hours/days.  (Natural gas turbines are probably the best peaking power solution.)

Buy back of non-utility generated power is required in many states.

First kids to own the latest and greatest will always be on the bleeding edge of cost, reliability, etc.  And honestly the Volt isn't much different than the Prius which is cheaper with proven reliability. 

Wind farms aren't feasible (breakdowns, located away from demand - transmission losses, productivity is unpredictable).  A local installer estimated 30 year payback and they won't last 30 years.  Can't fathom why Pickens would make such a poor investment.

Photovoltaic and heating solar panels make great sense.  Greatest power generation coincides with highest demand (daytime/summer afternoons) and its free after installation.  Local production saves transmission issues.  Every week improvements of solar are announced and prices are coming down.  I received a rough estimate of $16,000 for a 6,200 kWh/year system that would provide 85% of our annual demand (12 year payback in a cloudy state).  Michigan buyback provisions limit residential systems to less than the annualized demand.

But sunny conditions cannot be guaranteed (especially at night) so we'll need huge storage systems or the grid to be maintained.  Fuel cells can be used during sunny conditions to create hydrogen to be stored locally for home or automotive use.  Just need to get the cost down and reliability up.

[macrojack]

Corrections/confirmations to the last few posts:

RDavidson has the carbon footprint concept down.

Yes, conserve whenever possible.  Macrojack, those are great suggestions.

Best to buy everything locally sourced and stop driving/flying.  One of reasons for my retirement was to save 25,000 miles/year of driving.

Yes natural gas powered vehicles (cars, trucks, ships, trains) is the best short term solution.  Growing up we had a propane powered truck (that hauled 40,000 pounds of grain).  (Natural gas is cleaner, cheaper, and more powerful per cubic foot than propane.)

Electric/hybrid electric cars use lots of batteries that cause huge amounts of environmental damage to produce and dispose of.  Consider more fuel efficiency gas cars if doing mostly urban driving or diesel if doing mostly rural driving.

Electrical utility transmission/utilization losses are roughly 80% as stated.  Big power plants can't be switched on/off instantly to match demand, so most is wasted during non-peak hours/days.  (Natural gas turbines are probably the best peaking power solution.)

Buy back of non-utility generated power is required in many states.

First kids to own the latest and greatest will always be on the bleeding edge of cost, reliability, etc.  And honestly the Volt isn't much different than the Prius which is cheaper with proven reliability. 

Wind farms aren't feasible (breakdowns, located away from demand - transmission losses, productivity is unpredictable).  A local installer estimated 30 year payback and they won't last 30 years.  Can't fathom why Pickens would make such a poor investment.

Photovoltaic and heating solar panels make great sense.  Greatest power generation coincides with highest demand (daytime/summer afternoons) and its free after installation.  Local production saves transmission issues.  Every week improvements of solar are announced and prices are coming down.  I received a rough estimate of $16,000 for a 6,200 kWh/year system that would provide 85% of our annual demand (12 year payback in a cloudy state).  Michigan buyback provisions limit residential systems to less than the annualized demand.

But sunny conditions cannot be guaranteed (especially at night) so we'll need huge storage systems or the grid to be maintained.  Fuel cells can be used during sunny conditions to create hydrogen to be stored locally for home or automotive use.  Just need to get the cost down and reliability up.

I have seen numerous statements that the price of solar panels has come down 80% since 2008. My payback projection for sunny Colorado is just over 6 years. After that it all stays in my pocket. My working plan has me buying batteries and abandoning the grid within 10 years.

[DaveC113]

JLM, not true at all on wind farms if they are located in an area that is windy. Northern Europe gets more than 1/3rd of their power from wind, USA is near 5% but there are initiatives to increase that substantially. Wind farm detractors have the kind of credibility as conspiracy theorists, their points are mostly false although I would say living near a wind farm seems to be a really bad idea.


When considering an energy producing device Energy Return on Energy Invested (EROEI) is the most important factor. The cost to produce and dispose of the item is taken into consideration on EROEI calculations. For wind turbines we were up to over 15:1 when I was working in the field 5+ years ago, the technology is improving VERY rapidly and new turbines are well over 20:1 I'd guess.

Nuclear actually makes sense until you consider EROEI, the inputs to build and decommission a nuclear plant are enormous and the estimates are growing all the time. Nuclear might have an EROEI of 4:1...

Fossil fuels have an EROEI much higher than renewables but it's not sustainable and emits co2.

[Tyson]

LED light bulbs made a big difference here. We recycle and compost resulting in only about a half can of trash per week.
We recently unplugged the old freezer in the garage since we don't seem to need it any more. I had a vapor barrier installed in our crawlspace. At the same time we closed off the vents in the foundation and plugged all the perforations between crawl and main floor.Then we closed all the perforations in the ceiling and blew in R-49 worth of cellulose insulation. Then we bought Graber double cellular blinds for our east and west windows, getting blackout version for the ones facing west. Won't know what we've accomplished until winter but we feel good now. With any luck our good feelings will be vindicated when the heating bills roll in.
One other thing that might seem counter is we installed a ductless mini-split AC system. Calculations indicate that it may not use any more juice than the swamp cooler it replaced. The swamper ran full tilt all the time and was sometimes unable to keep up. The AC has an inverter system that is supposed to greatly reduce electric consumption. We'll see. I'm hoping all these other measures will cause the AC to see only occasional use. In any case, we have so much extra production from the panels. Almost forgot - we installed a roof mounted solar electric attic fan to reduce the AC load, keep humidity out of our new insulation, and prolong the life of our shingles. Also decided to replace overhead bathroom fans with highly efficient Panasonic models with ducting so that they actually exhaust rather than just humidifying the attic. Last year we spent about $650 on natural gas - hoping to cut that down to about $300. We have baseboard hot water heat and gas cooking along with a Rinnai on-demand water heater.
I hope these ideas help you, Tyson.

We compost and recycle - in fact it's crazy, we have way more recycle than "regular" trash nowadays.  Gotta try to figure out how to reduce that too, if I can.  We do clothesline dry also, and only run the dishwasher when it's really, really full.  All new double plane windows came with the house when we bought it (it's a 1954 brick home).  We don't have solar panels yet, but I'm hoping the tax credit for them gets extended, especially since prices seem to be coming down over time. 

But that begs the question - if you produce all the energy you need from solar panels, do you really have to be conservative with your energy usage in your home?  Seems like that's only a concern if you're on the grid...

[JLM]

Tyson,

The more you conserve, the fewer solar panels you'll need to buy.     Will your utility buy electricity you generate in excess of what you use?  (In Michigan the utilities only have to buy up to what you use on an annual basis.)

We recently gave up curb side trash pickup ($20/month) in favor of driving it to the recycling center ($0.50/bag).  Since the kids have moved out we only generate a couple of bags of garbage per week, so its much cheaper, and on the way to the YMCA.  Plus we can recycle newspaper, metal, cardboard, and plastics while wondering when/if the pickup service will arrive before the neighbor dogs knock over the can and rip into the bags.

Dave,

Europe is much more densely populated, so transmission losses would be less.  In Michigan many of the new windmills (big and small) aren't turning (big ones not needed all the time, small ones broken).  Michigan utilities, like in many other states, are required to produce a percentage of their power via renewable means by dates certain.  And I'd hate to have to manage the grid with significant wind/solar inputs.  Yeah, I worked on coal and nuclear power plants many years ago.  Yes, we have yet to solve how to dispose of nuclear waste.

macrojack,

I've thought about leaving the grid, but without something like fuel cells with hydrogen storage or adding a propane whole house generator with a few batteries, I don't see batteries alone being feasible here in Michigan where we routinely have heavy cloud cover for a week or two at a time in the winter.  Heck back in the 70's I was thinking of this stuff and living in an underground house.  When we built this house 10 years ago considered geothermal, but hated the extra $20,000 up front and the idea of heating with electric resistance in the duct with the furnace fan (the most inefficient system known) when it got below 20F.  Now with our propane fireplace and small generator we can get by on 3 gallons of gas per day when we lose power.

[macrojack]

Tyson - There is a lot to learn about solar in Colorado. The fewer panels you have to buy, the shorter your payback time. I've learned quite a bit in the last year and would be glad to help you. If you still have my number, give me a call. Or P.M. me. There will be no extension of the tax credit. The only reason it happened in the first place was it being part of the stimulus. Get it before 12/31/2016 or miss out forever.
Perhaps you should consider just getting a loan for the solar install. If you pay the money to a bank every month instead of Xcel Energy, at least there is a final payment day and you will have something in the end. If you just keep paying the utility, there is never any gain. Also, if the cost of utilities was to triple, you would speed up the payback dramatically.

JLM - You have a very different set of parameters in Michigan than what we work with in Colorado. Maybe you should just move down here. Colorado requires electric utilities to get 30% of their power from renewable sources. Rather than create their own infrastructure, these companies chose to incentivize the public to build it. Now that the goal has been reached, they are not so eager to encourage competition.
Electric heat pumps are claiming 100% efficiency to -5 degrees and 85% at -13 degrees nowadays. That probably doesn't add enough range yet for Michigan but it is nudging the feasible around here.

[Phil A]

Unless I missed it - I have not seen this technology mentioned - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heat_pump

Could be good for some areas

[RDavidson]

Some newer houses here in South Dakota have them. I think they're even more common in North Dakota.

[harley52]

Ok, I read the geothermal article and that geothermal is nothing more than the original heat pump that got its heat/ac from pipes buried in the ground. Gee, that was30-35 yrs. ago.

The heat pumps sold here are not capable of holding the temp in a home at 71/72degrees in the winter once it goes below 31/32 degrees. Fortunately, it doesn't get those kind of night time temps much. I even had two installers come to the house and tell me it was functioning properly at the home before this one. I thought well, guess they don't make heat pumps like they did back in the 80's. That incapability is what drove me to purchase a small electric space heater.  When I bought this house a heat pump wasn't an option in this development.

I was kind of thinking this thread might turn into a discussion on climate change but, I'm glad it hasn't.

[macrojack]

My motivation in all of this, I'm sorry to say, is personal and selfish. While I am an old hippie with sympathies that lean toward conservation and environmentalism, I never acted toward maximizing the efficiency of my home until the reality of retirement was impossible to ignore.
I'm about to turn 68 and my wife, who is still working, will be 61 later this year. I read somewhere that you can have a greater influence on your security in retirement by reducing the amount of money you need than by amassing great sums. Since I have no prospect of amassing anything on the positive side, I saw a lot of sense in reducing the need side of the equation. My own belief is that the major problems we will confront in terms of monthly bills moving forward will be energy and food. This assumes that Social Security and Medicare remain in place.
Food is not the topic of this thread but would probably be a valuable discussion for another thread.
We buy gas and electric from the same major corporation. Natural gas, for now, is very cheap and efficient. Because of my panels, electricity cost is zero. Most other steps we've taken center on reducing heating and cooling expense by increasing insulation and the integrity of our envelope.
Because of my age and Colorado policy, my property tax is a whopping $453.00 for this year.  The city I live in provides sewer service and trash and recycling pickup at a senior rate of $27.40/mo. Domestic water is inexpensive. The bill ranges from $22 to $27 per month. As a result, we expect to pay about $80/month for gas, electric, water, sewer, trash and recycling combined. All of that for 60% of our cell phone bill. We dumped  cable, leaving us with $80/mo. for broadband and our landline phone. These last items offer more room for paring going forward.
We are doing good things if not for the most noble of reasons. We are doing them nonetheless. If, like me, you need selfish motives to energize these kind of changes, so be it. Fact is, you will feel better because you are reducing your personal overhead and you might even take some delight in the fact that you are becoming part of the solution.  Please consider it.

[JLM]

Yes, geothermal is a passive groundwater heat pump (the ground being more consistent temperature 6 feet down and water having a much higher thermal coefficient) makes it more efficient to pump water than running an air condenser in a common air to air heat pump (but as macrojack eluded to, newer models are challenging the paradigm).  Most installations use a vertical (if land is limited) or horizontal buried water/antifreeze loops that exchange heat with the ground.  One of the cool factors is that energy to create hot water in the summer comes from space cooling (doesn't have to loop in the ground (the same system provides hot water and space comforting).  But big upfront costs, including lots of insulation and sealing up the leaks for it becomes viable.  Systems are optimally sized based on outside design temperature of 20F (below that the upfront cost of the recirculating loops and constant pumping cost become excessive).  As mentioned above, the downside is how to heat below 20F.  Antidotal accounts of these systems vary widely.

Took a CEU class on super insulated houses last December (complete R 60 exterior envelope = 18 inch walls/floor/ceiling and expensive windows) that heat/cool with a single split system air to air heat pump unit and supplement here in the great white north with in-duct electric coil (the capacity of a hair dryer).  2 inch PVC is used for interior ductwork with a small air to air energy recovery unit.  Very few have been built due to extreme upfront costs.

[thunderbrick]

Tom, you have an excellent retirement strategy.  I've done much the same thing (new HVAC, refinanced the house for 15 years, improved insulation, appliances, etc), INVESTING in our retirement by cutting long-term costs.  I also buy used cars and keep them for 10+ years. Now is not the problem, the future could be.  We are 64 and 61 respectively, and both have health concerns on the horizon.  We figure 3-4 years max of full-time work before we have to put up with each other full time.

I even consider my audio system an investment.  Music (TURN THAT DAMNED THING DOWN!!!!!) will be an important part of my retirement life so I'm making my system the best I can reasonably afford.   

[macrojack]

What I did not mention is my 4 mortgages and an equity line. I plan to sell 2 properties to pay off all 4 sometime in the next few years. The condo goes first during 2016 so I can take advantage of my tax credits from the solar install. We don't earn enough to use it otherwise. Selling the condo will eliminate the mortgage on our primary residence. For cars we have a low mileage 2 wheel drive 1997 Tacoma and a 2006 Prius with 107,000 miles. At the rate we drive, they will last us another 20 years but we will probably reduce to one car (possibly electric) in another 5-7 years.
On the audio front I think it is a good idea to set yourself up for the duration now and to concentrate on reliable brands who will continue to exist. Some of our favorites are one guy operations and he is often not young. There are 20 Jeff Rowlands, Nelson Passes and Richard Vandersteens for every Vinnie Rossi or Dan Wright. Turning to headphones could be a good strategy as well. They cost less, require less space, and don't create the same kind of conflict with the spouse, although there is always the issue of ignoring her while strapped in.
My big fear is runaway inflation. I'm pretty well set to endure through the trajectory we are on but a loss of SS or Medicare (or both) and/or a $15/gallon gas price or exponential increases in food pricing will kill us.
That's why I would like to keep at least one rental - it gives us something that is realistically pegged to cost of living increases.
Does anyone else have a strategy to share? We've gone off on a tangent but it's one that applies to a large percentage of us. And the energy angle seems to have been pretty thoroughly covered.
As usual, Thunderbrick and JLM represent the voice of reason. When I offer a reason, my wife calls it an excuse.

[DaveC113]

This is a good blog about retirement and consuming less... the guy lives in the Boulder area, I met him a couple weeks ago. There is an associated forum you may be interested in too.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/


I'm nowhere near retirement but it's never too early to start planning. I have done a lot of different things in my life which has been great but now it's time to settle down. I intend to continue with ZenWave for the next few decades as I enjoy doing it...

[Tyson]

This is a good blog about retirement and consuming less... the guy lives in the Boulder area, I met him a couple weeks ago. There is an associated forum you may be interested in too.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/


I'm nowhere near retirement but it's never too early to start planning. I have done a lot of different things in my life which has been great but now it's time to settle down. I intend to continue with ZenWave for the next few decades as I enjoy doing it...

That is an awesome resource, thanks so much for posting that - much reading ahead of me!

[macrojack]

That is an awesome resource, thanks so much for posting that - much reading ahead of me!

Agree completely. My kind of slacker. And he likes rent properties - just the sort of reinforcement I like.

One thing he mentioned was the importance of recognizing enough when you have it. Also his dwelling on the importance of being happy and always making decisions based on that.

I lived in the mountains just west of Boulder (wallstreet) for a little over 10 years - I wonder if I know this guy.

[Phil A]

There's too many people who don't understand the concept of money (I know some of them) and never learned it and never will (and I've tried helping some of them to no avail).  Part of the crisis with the mortgage companies years back was due to lots of people thinking the equity in their house was the same thing as an ATM machine withdrawal.  When real estate values went down their investment gains in the home were gone.  Some good info at that site.

[macrojack]

Kinda like explaining the difference between spending and investing to my wife.