[Arcticdeth]

i have listed speakers before.  1 pair bic dv-64 Ed Frias Models -*- bic dv-84 Ed frias Models.  some of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard.

2 pairs of Cerwin vega D9's - which is why i need the POWER - re-wired and upgraded crossovers, all sealed midranges, aftermarket woofers 122 Oz. magnet vented. ported monkey coffins. but man do they sound good. all upgraded with air core coils, film caps, resistors, all top notch parts, sound W-A-Y better  than stock pair i have - ....WAY !!

i dont own B&W - dahlquist, MB Quart, or whatever you snobs listen to your classical and that hellaciously horrid dian krawl tripe so many hold in such high regard   ive heard it, its ok, dont get your panties in your cracks guys. just havin a wee bit o' fun.

These CV's have been withme since new back in 87 i think, when i picked them up with my 84 cutlass supreme - 1 in trunk and 1 in front seat

bic v-630's  and v-830's

old pair MTX something or other. were a friends & i acquired them. they get no ear time, just for couch tables.


I have had some very nice speakers in the past, i had those altec lansing m510's which were good, but had no volume, and the soundstage was horrible, no matter what amp i used, so i moved em out

[stereo5]

I agree with you on music choices.  If I hear Diana Krall one more time, I'll throw up!  She does have a great pair of legs though.  Sara K is another one that irritates me.   I listen to 90% rock on my system, a lot of 70's rock (the best years for rock imho), and up.  I listen to Jazz and Classical when I want to fall asleep, lol.

[Arcticdeth]

I do most rock from 65 up til present.  Main music is metal, not the soft oftee metallipop either, the real stuff, been a metal head since my first Venom LP in 1981- havent looked back since !!! I need ....P-O-W-E-R ...as well as finesse. which is a very hard thing to accomplish. Which is why I went with the Emotiva 1000W monoblocks, ..they are descent for their price point, but just dont have the sheer perfect sound as my Threshold mono's ( huge price differential ) but DO have a great low end, and a surprising and very clear high end, midrange is a little subdued, but nothing  that is bad, just a bit soft, but my EQ does a nice job with that. IM happy with them, but am in need of a VERY MUSICAL set of mono's, which is why I am considering the strato's extreme's, but do not want to "not have enough power " when I feel like literally having my windows shake, when I get the 'ol D9's making some insane SPL levels which do shake my windows, and move the collectables on our shelves.


  Kismet mono in Strato cases, will be mine in several months, I think I have made my decision !

[bpape]

D9 Specs:
15”•3 way Floor System USABLE FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 29Hz-20kHz
POWER HANDLING CAPACITY – MINIMUM / MAXIMUM: 5/400 Watts
SENSITIVITY. 1 WATT @ 1 METER: 101 dB
MAXIMUM OUTPUT LEVEL(dB)@1 METER DRIVEN TO FULL POWER: 125 dB
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 4 Ohms 
CROSSOVER FREQUENCiES: 500/3500 Hz
DIMENSIONS HxWxD: 35-1/2” x 18” x 17-3/4” GROSS WEIGHT 95 lbs each

So.... At 101 db 1w/1m, and a max output of 125db yields a max input power of 256 watts into 4 ohms. They say 400 watts which would be short term power.

A LOUD rock concert will be around 115db maybe a tad more.  So to recreate that, you're looking at about 26 watts to reproduce.


<soapbox>
For your own hearing, please be very careful.  See below

Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss    90 - 95dB
Hand Drill    98dB
Power mower at 3'    107dB
Snowmobile, Motorcycle    100dB
Power saw at 3'    110dB
Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert    115dB
Pain begins    125dB
Pneumatic riveter at 4'    125dB
Even short term exposure can cause permanent damage - Loudest recommended exposure WITH hearing protection    140dB
Jet engine at 100'    140dB
12 Gauge Shotgun Blast    165dB
Death of hearing tissue    180dB

At 115db, OSHA max exposure is < 15 mins per day.

Don't get me wrong - I like it loud on occasion too, but I value my hearing enough not to get to insane levels that can cause permanent hearing loss. 

</soapbox>

What you need is an amp with enough power and enough current to drive AND CONTROL the speakers.  An amp that can pretty much instantly deliver all it has and not choke but quickly recharge the power supply.  The Odysseys do that in spades.  I had a pair (always regretted selling them) that were tricked out by Klaus driving Dynaudio Contours which are a TON harder to drive, weird impedance curves, WAY less efficient at around 88db at 1w and I could easily hit 110db with a speaker that's 14db LESS efficient and much harder on the amp.

[Arcticdeth]

i know odyssey amps are damn good, im not denying that at all!  im nervous as always about buying into something new to me is all. it took me over a year since hearing about the emotiva brand before i actually bought them, so i expect this will probably take longer....as the EMotiva's have a lifetime no fault warranty for the life of the amps,  parts/labor, all inclusive for the life of the amps, I would have been a fool if i did not buy these. sold my bryston 4b as it was a pain in the ass to get service from the company, hasskles & more hassles. if youve had better luck then good for you. companies always have and make up their own rules as they go along on what is included etc etc, Bryston lifetime warranty ( 20 years ) is great on paper, but try to get good service, and its a hassle for which i have yet to recover, so i sold them, losing money, and a semi descent poweramp, which didnt really have a great sound, more of a QSC type straight wire sound anyway.

[Arcticdeth]

D9 Specs:
15”•3 way Floor System USABLE FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 29Hz-20kHz
D9 Specs:

POWER HANDLING CAPACITY – MINIMUM / MAXIMUM: 5/400 Watts
SENSITIVITY. 1 WATT @ 1 METER: 101 dB
MAXIMUM OUTPUT LEVEL(dB)@1 METER DRIVEN TO FULL POWER: 125 dB
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 4 Ohms 
CROSSOVER FREQUENCiES: 500/3500 Hz
DIMENSIONS HxWxD: 35-1/2” x 18” x 17-3/4” GROSS WEIGHT 95 lbs each

So.... At 101 db 1w/1m, and a max output of 125db yields a max input power of 256 watts into 4 ohms. They say 400 watts which would be short term power.

A LOUD rock concert will be around 115db maybe a tad more.  So to recreate that, you're looking at about 26 watts to reproduce.


<soapbox>
For your own hearing, please be very careful.  See below

Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss    90 - 95dB
Hand Drill    98dB
Power mower at 3'    107dB
Snowmobile, Motorcycle    100dB
Power saw at 3'    110dB
Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert    115dB
Pain begins    125dB
Pneumatic riveter at 4'    125dB
Even short term exposure can cause permanent damage - Loudest recommended exposure WITH hearing protection    140dB
Jet engine at 100'    140dB
12 Gauge Shotgun Blast    165dB
Death of hearing tissue    180dB

At 115db, OSHA max exposure is < 15 mins per day.

Don't get me wrong - I like it loud on occasion too, but I value my hearing enough not to get to insane levels that can cause permanent hearing loss. 

</soapbox>

 I dont trust what it says on paper most of the time, only real life events that happen are real

[stereo5]

My choices in music are first and foremost, Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull, Led Zepp, Nirvana, foo Fighters, Ozzy, Black Sabbath, Hendrix, etc.  You can see where I am going.  I have a Odyssey Stratos Extreme+++ amp which blew away the 4,000.00 Classe' Audio amp I was using previously and the Classe' amp had more power too!  My Odyssey amp plays effortlessly and I am also using his Kismet Reference floor standing speakers which sell in the mid 3,000 range.  Using their Groneberg cable between my tube preamp and the Stratos amp and the Groneberg speaker cable from the Stratos to my speakers made a huge difference in system synergy.

I don't play my music nearly as loud as you do as I value my hearing greatly, and if it's too loud I can't concentrate on the music.  Using a iPhone app spl meter, I measure my average listening levels to be from 87 to 93 db. with peaks at times around 98-100db.  I wouldn't want it any louder than that as I remember when going to concerts back in the late 60's and 70's, my ears would usually be ringing for a few days after the concert was over.  As I just turned 60, I want to be able to listen to great music for a very long time and don't want to damage my hearing.  My advise is to smoke a bowl of good weed and enjoy the music at a lower volume.  You will find over time that you were missing some of the different sounds as it was just too loud to hear the subtleties in the music.  Peace.

[Phil A]

I listen to rock as well.  Grew up in the 60s but also listen to stuff listed in the prior post.  I do have audiophelia though and do listen to jazz, blues, acoustic and sometimes classical too.  I've come to appreciates good recordings as much as good music.  I have listened to stuff that is very loud  but fortunate I can still hear well.  About to turn 62 in a couple of months.  There is nothing wrong with listening to things that you like or on speakers or with equipment that you like.  Everyone has different taste.

[Arcticdeth]

ok, what is the power output at 4 Ohm ?  kismet amps in stratos cases is what I would go for, with any, all and every available option for beefing them up to the max, or allowed by Klaus, before he switches to " buy something else " mode 

info........../??

[Phil A]

ok, what is the power output at 4 Ohm ?  kismet amps in stratos cases is what I would go for, with any, all and every available option for beefing them up to the max, or allowed by Klaus, before he switches to " buy something else " mode 

info........../??

It is contained in this review - over 300 - http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/odyssey2/1.html

[bpape]

Sorry - the math is fact. It takes 2x the power to increase loudness by 3db. That's a fact.  So increasing 24 db takes 2^8 more watts than the 1w to do 102db.  now if you want to question the specs for the D9's, be my guest.  I have no way of knowing if they're accurate or not, if your crossover changes had any impact on efficiency, etc. 

175 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 320 watts into 4 ohms and roughly 600 watts into 2 ohms. Hobbyists report that the Odyssey amps are not only stable into 1 ohm but also that the power output easily reaches 1KW into that impedance.  Just the fact that they will run at 1 ohm tells you a lot about the power supply

[arthur]

At the moment listening to The Great Southern Trend Kill at spine vibrating volume with my Stratos Stereo from around 10years ago. Don't worry, unless you are running some crazy esoteric speakers, it will give you more than what you can handle.

 Would I like to have Klaus perform some upgrades on it? Sure. Am I willing to live without the amp long enough to ship it and wait for it to come back? Nope!!!

Throughout the years Klaus has proven to me that he always delivers way more than what you pay for. Yes the man must be a magician... especially considering how he answers his phone at ungodly hours, when only the devil and I should be awake.

Just buy it, plug it in and hang on!

[arthur]

By the way, Fritz, from fritzspeakers.com was over a couple of weeks ago and couldn't believe how good my system sounded with the Stratos amp and Tempest preamp. He said he is going to buy one himself.

I'm still waiting for the rev 5s to fully break in before writing a review. Maybe in a few weeks. So far -

[lazydays]

D9 Specs:
15”•3 way Floor System USABLE FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 29Hz-20kHz
POWER HANDLING CAPACITY – MINIMUM / MAXIMUM: 5/400 Watts
SENSITIVITY. 1 WATT @ 1 METER: 101 dB
MAXIMUM OUTPUT LEVEL(dB)@1 METER DRIVEN TO FULL POWER: 125 dB
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 4 Ohms 
CROSSOVER FREQUENCiES: 500/3500 Hz
DIMENSIONS HxWxD: 35-1/2” x 18” x 17-3/4” GROSS WEIGHT 95 lbs each

So.... At 101 db 1w/1m, and a max output of 125db yields a max input power of 256 watts into 4 ohms. They say 400 watts which would be short term power.

A LOUD rock concert will be around 115db maybe a tad more.  So to recreate that, you're looking at about 26 watts to reproduce.


<soapbox>
For your own hearing, please be very careful.  See below

Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss    90 - 95dB
Hand Drill    98dB
Power mower at 3'    107dB
Snowmobile, Motorcycle    100dB
Power saw at 3'    110dB
Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert    115dB
Pain begins    125dB
Pneumatic riveter at 4'    125dB
Even short term exposure can cause permanent damage - Loudest recommended exposure WITH hearing protection    140dB
Jet engine at 100'    140dB
12 Gauge Shotgun Blast    165dB
Death of hearing tissue    180dB

At 115db, OSHA max exposure is < 15 mins per day.

Don't get me wrong - I like it loud on occasion too, but I value my hearing enough not to get to insane levels that can cause permanent hearing loss. 

</soapbox>

What you need is an amp with enough power and enough current to drive AND CONTROL the speakers.  An amp that can pretty much instantly deliver all it has and not choke but quickly recharge the power supply.  The Odysseys do that in spades.  I had a pair (always regretted selling them) that were tricked out by Klaus driving Dynaudio Contours which are a TON harder to drive, weird impedance curves, WAY less efficient at around 88db at 1w and I could easily hit 110db with a speaker that's 14db LESS efficient and much harder on the amp.

good post!

I once had a pair of Meadow Lark Kestrel hot rods being driven by either a 40 watt tube amp, and later a 35 watt tube amp. Now these speakers didn't go down to 29Hz, but would do an honest 35Hz and had a very nice smooth upper end (can you tell I miss them?). Now with the volume knob set at about the 50% mark they were as loud as I could stand, and 90% of my listening was in the 30% range. They were rated at a nominal 8.0 ohms, and think they went upto 12 or 16 ohms. Think they were rated at 89db @ 1 watt. I later hooked up a pair of Mono Extremes  in front of them, and they just cruised along. Interestingly, I used the same preamp (Conrad Johnson), and never even changed the position of the volume knob!

I know the Cerwin Vegas quite well, as the guy I used to work for bought that same model. He had a receiver driving them that was rated at close to 200 watts a channel (maybe even more). After egging me to come over and listen to them, I took him up on it (plus the free meal and free beer). Kinda reminded me of an old pair of Synergistics speakers that I used to own, but they had a much tighter bass and mid range. Playing kinda loud in a large room the amp was failing in a big way when he got into long extended notes. The following weekend I brought over an Accuphase intergrated amp, and two or three records. It was like different speakers with and extended sound. That amp was rated at 140 watts in 8 ohms. Well Dave tells me he has to retool his system again. This time he bought Polk SDA's (great big ones). The Polks flat smoked Dave's old speakers (about three to four months old!). After a half dozen amps, Dave ended up with a pair of bridged Dynaco 70 watt amps! Ran just fine! I tried to get him to listen to Maggies, but he just wouldn't.
gary

[lazydays]

Sorry - the math is fact. It takes 2x the power to increase loudness by 3db. That's a fact.  So increasing 24 db takes 2^8 more watts than the 1w to do 102db.  now if you want to question the specs for the D9's, be my guest.  I have no way of knowing if they're accurate or not, if your crossover changes had any impact on efficiency, etc. 

175 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 320 watts into 4 ohms and roughly 600 watts into 2 ohms. Hobbyists report that the Odyssey amps are not only stable into 1 ohm but also that the power output easily reaches 1KW into that impedance.  Just the fact that they will run at 1 ohm tells you a lot about the power supply

very few amps are totally stable at two ohm loads for extended periods. For short micro seconds yes, but not for an hour or two. The Stratos extremes are. The glass ceiling models are said to be stable in a one ohm load playing at 90% all day long (talk about hearing loss!). That's roughly 900 watts continuous power. They won't heat the house up as they will only get to about 125 degrees if that matters much, and heat kills amps fast. You'll be able to fry eggs with a Chinese amp doing that if it even lives that long.
gary

[klaus@odyssey]

Yup,  very stable, had an Extreme on an industrial 1 Ohm load, running on the bench with test equ. hooked up at 90 %...walked away (couldn't stand seeing it), came back after dinner, and there was my sweetie, still (literally) cooking.  Didn't blow,  didn't melt a transistor,  which surprised me,  but wasn't too far off doing that though as the amp was very hot......but still worked...also,  we have as customers a couple of Universities, as well as industrial scientific companies and also the defense Industry (an educated guess).  Reason is exactly that,  stability, and more important,  an insane and stable frequency response....that's my baby,  but also to be realistic,  it doesn't have 900 or 1000 + Watts max, as the PS is 800 +,  and although the trannies are efficient,  they still lose some wattage up there.  However,  the typical Rolls Royce approach:  more than adequate.....

Now, again, ....I do understand that if your heart is set on high Wattage, some of the actual control facts might not seem that important,  and honestly, I don't know if Arcticdeath or others in his situation would be 100 % happy with any amps less than ultra high Wattage....just don't want to create a situation where one party might not have a happy ending here....

Late,
Klaus

[Phil A]

very few amps are totally stable at two ohm loads for extended periods.

That's so true.  I had Thiel 7.2s and a name brand amp rated at 600W into 8 ohms (and the test sheet was 645 in one channel and 649 in the other) and 900W into 4 ohms and due to the impedance the amp would shut down at what I would call loud but reasonable levels (I also have a large room with a 19 ft. ceiling that opens into other spaces).  I sent the amp back to the manuf. and was told there was nothing wrong.  I ended up having to build a custom amp stand with fans.  So I had an amp that would test over 900W into 4 ohms that really could not handle the load of the speakers.  I then got Thiel 3.7s, and although not as bad a load, are still not easy to drive (rated at 4 ohms).  Stereophile tested them at 2.4 ohms minimum and between 2 and 3 ohms over much of the audio band.  While the amp did not shut off, it would get so hot you could burn yourself touching it at times.  I ended up with my current Modwright amp rated at 150W into 8 ohms and 275 into 4.  I once again sent my name brand amp off to the manuf. (to make sure nothing was wrong so I could sell it) and I spoke to the same technician again who basically told me it was impossible for their amp to run hotter than my Modwright.  Now I may not be a technician, but I can feel hot.  So I would listen to what Klaus says.  I had an amp rated at many more watts than the current one and it could not drive what I owned.  I've shortened the story of the experience I had with the old amp I had, and, needless to say while I still think the company makes nice products, I do not have the same amount of respect for them.

[Arcticdeth]

I have ran my thresholds into a  1 ohm load for an extended period as well, hot as can be, but performed flawlessly. This is good news....... my only other amp which actually could handle this was a measly onkyo m504 - kudos to that little amp for running 2 pair of 4 ohm speakers simultaneously for hours, it did eventually fry a couple years later, but what an amp that was !!  ok i think I have been sold here,    " i think "   Must do more research, and somehow get a listen or audition these before the final sale. as this is a lot of money.

I will be in touch............

[Phil A]

In the old days, Infinity Kappas were noted as amp killers.  From memory the impedance dipped to around 0.9 ohms around 40 hz.  Here's a small write up from an audio dealer impedance and amplifiers - http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/spkramp.html

[Arcticdeth]

Thank you for ALL your input, brothers !! I appreciate it. I have been up many nights comparing paper specs of many amps. I am not yet sold on any peticular amp, but am moving close to the Kismets in Strato cases, as I really dont need fancy cases to make good sound...

I think I will or should get about 300watts into a 4 ohm speaker, so I think my power worries are over in that respect. I havent called Klaus yet, but I will make some time, and see if he can make a couple Sherman tanks. Again, thanks to you all.  cheers & MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL AND YOUR FAMILIES. Or Hanukkah, or whatever you celebrate.  cheers & biers !