Recommendations for acoustic treatment

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TypicalLee

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Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« on: 3 Nov 2023, 03:48 pm »
I have already decided on 242s for the first reflection areas on the side walls and on the ceiling (which are textured), but would like advice on these areas:
  • The window on the rear wall that occupies the top half of the rear wall
  • The fact that the room opens up to the left of the left speaker, but the right side has a wall... does it matter?
  • the rear left side has a slanted wall and not a 90 degree corner unlike the rear right side... and does it matter

Aside from the 242s, what else should I prioritize?




Pics attached; sorry about the mess!

richidoo

Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #1 on: 3 Nov 2023, 04:51 pm »
I would try making the right wall the front wall. That will allow symmetrical front soundstage. Your speakers are small enough that they will benefit from close placement to the front wall, which will improve their bass output and reduce midbass smearing from front wall reflection. They can be placed wider for more realistic imaging, especially with center channel filling in the middle. Sidewall reflections will be much less noticeable, probably not needing damping ymmv.  All surfaces are hard, some are concrete, so you will benefit from damping as much midrange reverberation as possible to gain dialect clarity and better tonal texture. Carpet or rug, ceiling amplitude diffusion, etc.

The sub is probably better against a flat wall than in a corner, or at least put in the solid wall corner, not the corner with thin door with closet behind (same as alcove which is acoustic no-no.) Sub placed right behind listening position allows turning it way down to minimize bass modes, while still achieve proper bass SPL because you are very close to it.
Adjust speaker and sub distances as accurately as possible in your receiver.
Welcome to AudioCircle!

newzooreview

Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #2 on: 3 Nov 2023, 05:25 pm »
How does the room measure?

With a $90 UMIK-1 and an HDMI cable from laptop to home theatre receiver, the free REW software could identify the reverb time (RT) in the room across the frequency range above 200 Hz and let you determine where the bass highs and lows are for the room.

$90 is a bargain in the context of $1000s of room treatments: if you measure the room and send that with the room dimensions and speaker locations to GIK or others, they will be able to give you data-driven advice on what to buy and where to put it.

One could eyeball it, but with the time and investment planned, that doesn't seem optimal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVfxxUEhmnQ

TypicalLee

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #3 on: 3 Nov 2023, 05:42 pm »
I would try making the right wall the front wall. That will allow symmetrical front soundstage. Your speakers are small enough that they will benefit from close placement to the front wall, which will improve their bass output and reduce midbass smearing from front wall reflection. They can be placed wider for more realistic imaging, especially with center channel filling in the middle. Sidewall reflections will be much less noticeable, probably not needing damping ymmv.  All surfaces are hard, some are concrete, so you will benefit from damping as much midrange reverberation as possible to gain dialect clarity and better tonal texture. Carpet or rug, ceiling amplitude diffusion, etc.

The sub is probably better against a flat wall than in a corner, or at least put in the solid wall corner, not the corner with thin door with closet behind (same as alcove which is acoustic no-no.) Sub placed right behind listening position allows turning it way down to minimize bass modes, while still achieve proper bass SPL because you are very close to it.
Adjust speaker and sub distances as accurately as possible in your receiver.
Welcome to AudioCircle!

Thank you for the suggestions!
Unfortunately, I set up 4 dolby atmos in-ceiling speakers with this orientation in mind, and so won't be able to change the layout.
I've added an area rug to my shopping list, and will move the sub to right behind the couch - great idea!

TypicalLee

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #4 on: 3 Nov 2023, 05:55 pm »
How does the room measure?

With a $90 UMIK-1 and an HDMI cable from laptop to home theatre receiver, the free REW software could identify the reverb time (RT) in the room across the frequency range above 200 Hz and let you determine where the bass highs and lows are for the room.

$90 is a bargain in the context of $1000s of room treatments: if you measure the room and send that with the room dimensions and speaker locations to GIK or others, they will be able to give you data-driven advice on what to buy and where to put it.

One could eyeball it, but with the time and investment planned, that doesn't seem optimal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVfxxUEhmnQ

Thank you, just purchased  the mic... a little costlier with shipping to Canada, but you're right, definitely worth it for the value it brings

S Clark

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #5 on: 3 Nov 2023, 07:56 pm »
Wow.  That's a tough room.  Perhaps near field listening is your best bet.   

AllanS

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #6 on: 4 Nov 2023, 12:47 am »
How does the room measure?

With a $90 UMIK-1 and an HDMI cable from laptop to home theatre receiver, the free REW software could identify the reverb time (RT) in the room across the frequency range above 200 Hz and let you determine where the bass highs and lows are for the room.

$90 is a bargain in the context of $1000s of room treatments: if you measure the room and send that with the room dimensions and speaker locations to GIK or others, they will be able to give you data-driven advice on what to buy and where to put it.

One could eyeball it, but with the time and investment planned, that doesn't seem optimal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVfxxUEhmnQ

  What are your goals? Do you know what you’re trying to accomplish or fix?

 I agree making the rh side wall the front wall would give you the best opportunity to correct what’s left.  In addition to the funky geometry you’ve got a lot of hard surfaces to deal with.

  Regardless, if you’re willing to dig REW can lead down some pretty deep rabbit holes but I completely agree with REW first - figure out what the problems are before throwing treatments at it.  No matter what you do you may never find great sound stage symmetry or whatever you want to accomplish.
 My room isn’t that bad but is similarly asymmetric and I was pretty disappointed that treatments didn’t make a more audible difference (carpeted floor, 244s at first reflection on the one side wall, front wall corner traps/diffusers, rear wall traps/diffuser, free standing panels).
 Measuring now with and without treatments I can see in the plots where the improvements are.  They are definitely measurable and not insignificant but not audibly dramatic.  But knowing allows me to target specific problem areas.  I ended up adding a MiniDSP SHD to tame the worst of it.
Bet of luck!

vonnie123

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #7 on: 4 Nov 2023, 02:42 am »
Perfection will be tough to attain.  Tough room.  But you can probably improve it using some acoustic art or panels.  I put a couple of the art panels up (2’x4’x4”) and it helped smooth things out.  It was a smaller symmetrical room though.

TypicalLee

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #8 on: 4 Nov 2023, 12:32 pm »
Wow.  That's a tough room.  Perhaps near field listening is your best bet.

Is that because of the geometry or the hard surfaces or both? The latter I am hoping to remedy to an extent with treatments.

TypicalLee

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #9 on: 4 Nov 2023, 12:38 pm »
  What are your goals? Do you know what you’re trying to accomplish or fix?

 I agree making the rh side wall the front wall would give you the best opportunity to correct what’s left.  In addition to the funky geometry you’ve got a lot of hard surfaces to deal with.

There is a very audible echo right in the room (clap test) which I was hoping to address. Other than that, just create a highly immersive sound stage and cinema experience.

Do you think thick absorption to the right of the right speaker will mimic what is on the left?

WGH

Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #10 on: 4 Nov 2023, 10:44 pm »
Flip the room 180 degrees putting the TV under the window (no more window reflections in TV anymore either). Bass will now go into hallway making room less boomy.

A big area rug will control a lot of the echo, that should be #1 no matter what you do.

Blackout blinds or cellular shades from blinds.com for acoustic treatment and make room pretty. Too much treatment/absorption on front TV wall will deaden the sound
https://www.blinds.com

A few big plants diffuse sound and make room pretty too. Bamboo palm do well in low to medium light, all palms need bottled or rain water, tap water is usually too hard.

The GIK Impression or Acoustic Art Panels will make your house look like a home and not a recording studio.

JWL.GIK

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #11 on: 6 Nov 2023, 10:00 pm »
Some good advice above. If that was my room I'd flip it around so the speakers are on the wall with the window, firing back toward the door/opening. But even if you keep the same setup treating things will still help a lot.

242s work at reflection points if thicker panels cannot be tolerated.

GIK can definitely help advise on a great treatment strategy for your room. If you are already working with a GIK designer you can reach out to them directly, or if not I'd start with our Free Acoustics Advice form on the website. Once that's complete your form will be assigned to a designer and we can move forward with a great plan.

We look forward to seeing more!

TypicalLee

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #12 on: 6 Nov 2023, 10:11 pm »
Flip the room 180 degrees putting the TV under the window (no more window reflections in TV anymore either). Bass will now go into hallway making room less boomy.

A big area rug will control a lot of the echo, that should be #1 no matter what you do.

Blackout blinds or cellular shades from blinds.com for acoustic treatment and make room pretty. Too much treatment/absorption on front TV wall will deaden the sound
https://www.blinds.com

A few big plants diffuse sound and make room pretty too. Bamboo palm do well in low to medium light, all palms need bottled or rain water, tap water is usually too hard.

The GIK Impression or Acoustic Art Panels will make your house look like a home and not a recording studio.

Thank you; much appreciated!

TypicalLee

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #13 on: 12 Nov 2023, 04:29 pm »
So I finally got REW up and running and took a measurement... I'll do another round with multiple measurements, but see what you folks thought are the key takeaways to how I should approach acoustic treatments

The mdat file is uploaded at https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApEw9S8B9NoPkKs3DUUdVhLSyNZM4w?e=O7NPaL






jamieattfield

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Re: Recommendations for acoustic treatment
« Reply #14 on: 10 Jun 2024, 08:40 pm »
The first reflection points to the sides are the most important on the side walls and the ceiling. Go with the monster traps if budget allows. Add in a little diffusion on the front wall with add to spaciousness and soundstage depth. If you can, remove all your furniture from the center and mount your tv on the wall. Also stack two bass traps per corner of the walls. Start with as many as you can afford then listen and you’ll know if you need more. Good luck!