[DZetye]

how do you download the Battle Royale file?  looks interesting but can't seem to get anything

[ted_b]

how do you download the Battle Royale file?  looks interesting but can't seem to get anything

The ftp link, user id and password are on the link .  Just download the files.  As I posted there, the DSD64 files are missing right no but Bruce has promised to re-upload.  5 DSD64 files and 3 DSD128 files.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?11944-DSD-Battle-Royale!&p=231876&viewfull=1#post231876

[TF1216]

ted_b,

Do you know which DACs that are capable of playing back DSD do so without converting to PCM before their analog output? 

[wisnon]

Duplicate

[wisnon]

1 bit Dacs and filter boxes.

That means Sonore eXd, PB Designs, Meitner, EMM Labs, Lampizator are sure. The chipped Dacs except for the 1 bit Cirrus Logic are likely converting, at least partially (multi-bit SDM and DSOP manipulations). At least that is my understanding...

[ted_b]

ted_b,

Do you know which DACs that are capable of playing back DSD do so without converting to PCM before their analog output?

I am not quite sure of your intent.  Anything I call DSD-capable means it accepts native DSD at its input and does not resample before the DAC chip (meaning the DAC chip accepts native DSD, or is chipless filtering like the Lampi).  What the chip does internally is one of several variations.  But that can be said for standard PCM DACs too.  In other words, many PCM DACs internally convert to multi-bit SDM which is frankly a form of DSD.  As I stated earlier in this thread, that is about as far as my tech knowledge goes.  I would LOVE if someone provided a non-biased primer for DSD processing (i.e what do the different digital designs do with DSD and why are they beneficial/harmful).  You have dCS ring, R2R, FPGA, one-bit (a true pure DSD process I know of that is chip-based...but then they convert PCM so that is another tradeoff), SABRE, TI, etc etc,..  My flag is what the signal does before the D/Achip, and if the chip accepts native DSD I'm good with calling it DSD-capable.    Let the flames begin. 

[TF1216]

Thanks for replying guys.

One thing I wanted to deduce with my question is if "reviews" tend to favor DACs that leave DSD in its native form or not.  What I mean be "native form" is if it's left as a single bit and never resampled.  I will admit, I don't have complete understanding of DSD other than its 1-bit, MHz sample rate. 

I have read that DSD is not always single bit and that there is compression involved but I don't know the validity to these statements.  Does anyone know if I am talking nonsense or not?

What else is involved in DSD playback, without a DAC chip, besides the multi-stage filter to retrieve the music content?   

[zybar]

Now for some non-technical comments...

I've had my AuraLic Vega DAC for almost two weeks now and I am extremely happy!  I know it is cliche...but this IS the best my system has ever sounded.

Although I do believe that the Vega is the main contributor to this positive improvement, there were some other changes in my system (preamp upgrade, fresh batteries for my speaker crossover, new fanless computer as my music server).

I'll try and put some thoughts together this weekend around its performance and what it sounds like in my system.

If you have the ability to hear or buy one, I definitely suggest doing so based on my initial impressions.

George

[edn4x4]

What else is involved in DSD playback, without a DAC chip, besides the multi-stage filter to retrieve the music content?   

Tyler,

Lots of storage and bandwidth!  I have my W4S DAC2 upgraded to the dsd version - I think it was last time you were over - anyway I have more native DSD downloads to listen to.
I have found that my DSD DL compared  with a hi rez equivalent that I own (Nora Jones - Come away with me) from AS and the 24/96 from HDTracks, sound different in my system. I prefer the AS DSD in my system, but need to see what it is that makes it sound different/better in my system.  I just bought the AS version yesterday to perform the actual comparison.  The AS seems like there is more detail/space presence warmth realism etc..

The DSD format for me has been a really pleasant experience and have found great enjoyment with the material  I have DL.  Last night I also listened to Santana ABRAXAS and Muddy Waters Folk singer both were just surreal.

One thing I have been wanting to post is the change of sound I get when I use JRiver 19 to convert to DSD from PCM  - the thing I notice is guitars that are in the left speaker ( think Joe Walsh at the start of Hotel, Pete Townsend on Behind Blue Eyes (electric guitar)) get pushed back into the soundstage and become almost inaudible.  There are a few other examples I have found, and they are all consistent.  The guitar part gets pushed back and is quite noticeable.  So I am not sure if it is from the JRiver conversion or the DAC itself.
Let me know when you want to come over for a listen and we can listen to the various playback options and see what you prefer.
Keep me away from the flames - I enjoy my setup.

Eric

[poseidonsvoice]

Now for some non-technical comments...

I've had my AuraLic Vega DAC for almost two weeks now and I am extremely happy!  I know it is cliche...but this IS the best my system has ever sounded.

Although I do believe that the Vega is the main contributor to this positive improvement, there were some other changes in my system (preamp upgrade, fresh batteries for my speaker crossover, new fanless computer as my music server).

I'll try and put some thoughts together this weekend around its performance and what it sounds like in my system.

If you have the ability to hear or buy one, I definitely suggest doing so based on my initial impressions.

George

+1. My thoughts exactly. The Vega is the real deal.

Best,
Anand.

[hifial]

  "Do you know which DACs that are capable of playing back DSD do so without converting to PCM before their analog output?"

My understanding is that the e20 MK III by exaSound and the Zodiac Platinum by Antelope Audio do NOT convert the DSD to PCM. Both state so on their web sites.
Antelope STRESSES that they do not.

I agree that it would be great to have a list of all the DACs that do not convert the DSD to PCM and that is verifiable.

[ted_b]

  "Do you know which DACs that are capable of playing back DSD do so without converting to PCM before their analog output?"

My understanding is that the e20 MK III by exaSound and the Zodiac Platinum by Antelope Audio do NOT convert the DSD to PCM. Both state so on their web sites.
Antelope STRESSES that they do not.

I agree that it would be great to have a list of all the DACs that do not convert the DSD to PCM and that is verifiable.

NONE of the DSD-capable DACs convert to what we consider PCM.  The exaSound is a great DAC< but the SABRE chip DOES manipulate DSD beyond it's one-bit (internal to the chip), and that is the debate.  I think we are confusing DSD-to-PCM dacs (like the Astell-Kern portable that claims DSD but in fact does 24/xxx) with those chip architectures that internally process DSD into multi-bit SDM, etc.  It is really nor worth worrying about.  The DSD database is ALL DSD dacs. 

[hifial]

Thanks Ted. Yes, that was my understanding too, that "the SABRE chip DOES manipulate DSD beyond it's one-bit (internal to the chip)", but then exaSound states otherwise on their web site so one does not know if one is coming or going. Ugh, I hate when a manufacture plays the word game.

It makes one question all things stated by all manufactures and I do not want to be like that.

Know I wonder if what Antelope states on their web site is "factual" or not.

 

[tasar]

Seems our 4 letter friends at Sony, are coming up in our rear view mirror. Their once DSD pet projects now coming to a store near you..... SACD transports (no kidding !), multiple code audio engined DACs (oh my!). Heck, it appears they're playing nice w Apple files. They might pull off the marketing, but then, those 4 letters....S...O...N...Y

[jackman]

Seems our 4 letter friends at Sony, are coming up in our rear view mirror. Their once DSD pet projects now coming to a store near you..... SACD transports (no kidding !), multiple code audio engined DACs (oh my!). Heck, it appears they're playing nice w Apple files. They might pull off the marketing, but then, those 4 letters....S...O...N...Y

I'm going to wait for one of these to become available before making any final decisions.  Hopefully, the price of these will come down to the $600-700 range.  http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HAPS1-Hi-Res-Player-System/dp/B00FFZCZE4/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_3

[tasar]

The rollout could morph into separates, ie, pull the amp out and give me the audio engine. They have customers who gain from this approach rather than more Sony "all in one" boxes. Hey SONY.... get it right this round !!

[k6davis]

I'm going to wait for one of these to become available before making any final decisions.  Hopefully, the price of these will come down to the $600-700 range.  http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HAPS1-Hi-Res-Player-System/dp/B00FFZCZE4/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_3

That unit certainly seems to have a lot going for it, but unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't function as a USB connected DAC that plays audio files from a computer. It has it's own operating system and plays files from its internal hard drive or from an externally connected drive.

That may not be a deal breaker for others, but it is for me. I'm happy with the performance, flexibility and look and feel that I get from my computer rig. Sony offers a model further down in this line that does operate as a DAC connected to a computer, but it lacks the pretty screen.  I don't know if that model offers the same audio performance as this top of the line unit does.

[k6davis]

The rollout could morph into separates, ie, pull the amp out and give me the audio engine. They have customers who gain from this approach rather than more Sony "all in one" boxes. Hey SONY.... get it right this round !!

With their implementation of audio formats, Sony just seems determined to disappoint high end users.

This is their top of the line model, but as you said, it's a "all in one" type of unit, which is the kind of configuration you'd think they'd market to consumers who value simplicity over flexibility and the best possible sound. You'd think they'd at least offer the option to use this unit as a "normal" DAC. Maybe they will with a firmware update.

As they often do, Sony has confused me here.

[k6davis]

I just saw that the internal HD for this "hi-res" player is 500GB.

ROFL

I know you can add more drives, but still... Sony's got jokes. 

[jackman]

I just saw that the internal HD for this "hi-res" player is 500GB.

ROFL

I know you can add more drives, but still... Sony's got jokes. 

Yeah, 500GB is nothing, but I believe anyone using HR files will need external HD's no matter how many TB's Sony spec'd these units with.  I'm not in the market for a Pre/DAC/HD/Amp/Headphone Amp but would like to test the Sony unit with some external HD's in place of my computer/HDD/DAC.  The amp could be decent for desktop use but it's not powerful enough for my speakers.  And Audiogeeks, like myself, like to have options.  The ES version looks interesting but it's $2K retail makes me think twice.  I'll take a chance on a lower model even if I don't use all of the features.