[Audioclyde]

My Meitner MA-1 makes no noise when switching resolutions, redbook to high rez to DSD, etc. (of course it only does DSD64 at this point).

[wisnon]

Then Meitner does not switch modes really. Its always in DSD. Every input is converted to DSD.

[ted_b]

I've had over a dozen DSD-capable DACs in here and very few click between PCM and DSD selections.  My Meitner, for example, is dead quiet.  I didn't notice anything with the Chord either.  The tiniest of ticks in between DSD tracks is a function of the edit master being cut into tracks (DSF or DFF).  If there is music in that edit you can't possibly hear it. 

[Audioclyde]

Wisnon:  That is correct with the Meitner, but I assumed the OP was having issues with DAC's making noises re switching between the resolution of the source being input.

[holzohr]

Thanks! Afaik the LUMIN can convert PCM to DSD on-the-fly, too.

[ted_b]

Thanks! Afaik the LUMIN can convert PCM to DSD on-the-fly, too.

Nope, the Lumin is not a one-bit DAC.  That conversion is likely in the player end of the signal path (Linux MPD-like). 

[holzohr]

Ted, yes. I find the Lumin's on-the-fly converting a nice feature. I wonder if I should go this DSD-only way. Listening to mixed PCM/DSD playlists (or in shuffle mode) is not that nice with these clicks. Well, usually I listen to albums. At least the Matrix doesn't click when the (PCM) sampling rate is changing.

I have read here about the DSD-only DACs (Lampizator and Loki). That`s very interesting!

[ted_b]

Holzohr,
I am not sure of your point.  There seems to be confusion over the term DSD-only DAC.  It means those DACs that will play only DSD formatted files.  The Meitner, EMM and Playback Designs DACs, those DACs that are exclusively using proprietary one-bit chip technology (i.e everything is internally processed as  some multiple of DSD) are not DSD-only DACs; they accept and play PCM from any PCM source. 

The Lumin is not a one-bit chip design, nor is a DSD-only DAC/streamer.  It is like the vast majority of SDM Dacs that accept both DSD and PCM file formats, and that do multibit internal resampling to deliver the analog output.

I would LOVE for someone who has both the technical know-how and the user friendly bedside manner, to explain, in laymens terms but in detail, the various DSD DAC implementations (R2R, FPGA, SABRE, one-bit, SD chip, etc) and their pluses and minuses.  As we all know, the architecture is one-thing (and that is what I'd like described by someone) the implementation of that digital architecture and it passing to a quality analog stage with quality power supplies....cleanly out the analog outputs....that's a whole 'nother thing...and typically more important than the chip design.  But if one digital design is that much more effective at delivering musical PCM AND DSD, then I would guess the back end (analog stage, power supplies) could do an even better job. 

The guys over on CA that seem to have huge technical backgrounds about these DACs have, for the most part, either a personal agenda to push their own (of course) or a lack of being able to "dumb it down" enough for the educated consumer. 

[holzohr]

Ted, thank you very much for broaden my horizon. Much appreciated! I guess I understand now about the different DACs and their used chips.

I found the DSD-only DACs interesting and understood they will play only DSD-files. But converting "all my" PCM files to DSD with the Korg AudioGate (probably Twitter would close my account very soon after posting dozens of bla-bla messages), that's a work I better avoid.

So, the Playback Designs MPD-3 DAC could be the solution?    Why I didn't know about these DACs before?   

[ted_b]

Well, it's all about tradeoffs.  The one-bit chip DACs like PD are great at DSD, of course, but even I, who has thousands of SACDs ripped, still have the overwhelming vast majority of my tracks (maybe not my storage ) in PCM...and these one-bit DACs take PCM on a journey that is unnecessary with other DACs.  Horses for courses!

[holzohr]

Well, it's all about tradeoffs.

That' s so true.

Surprisingly, I have found a PD dealer here in Berlin, even not that far from me! Must be destiny or something like that?    Hmm.. the shop is offering a "technique evening" every friday. Is tomorrow friday? Suddenly, I am so curious on this DAC. That's childish, isn't it? 

Ok, I am not in a hurry at all. The Matrix X-Sabre is a nice DAC. It does it very well in my "strange" Lyngdorf setup. I keep my wallet closed, at least till the end of the year  But definitely, I will have a look and "an ear" at the MPD-3.

Thanks again for having mentioned these one-bit DACs 

Mario

[wisnon]

Ted, thank you very much for broaden my horizon. Much appreciated! I guess I understand now about the different DACs and their used chips.

I found the DSD-only DACs interesting and understood they will play only DSD-files. But converting "all my" PCM files to DSD with the Korg AudioGate (probably Twitter would close my account very soon after posting dozens of bla-bla messages), that's a work I better avoid.

So, the Playback Designs MPD-3 DAC could be the solution?    Why I didn't know about these DACs before? 

???

You only need to do the Korg Audiogate Twitter thing once!

[ted_b]

Holzohr, if you are sending everything to a Lyngdorf I would not invest heavily in pure native DSD.  Your amp is a PCM-based amp.  Just get the best PCM DAC you can hear inhome, and then convert DSD to 24/352k PCM.  My recommendation is the updated Chord QuteHDEX.

[holzohr]

Loading 33,500 FLAC files into the Korg and converting all of them in a session? How long would that take? 

[ted_b]

Loading 33,500 FLAC files into the Korg and converting all of them in a session? How long would that take? 

If that question is for me, you are going the wrong way.  Don't convert PCM to DSD and then have your digital amp convert it back to PCM.  Take you DSD files and use JRIver (for example, no Twitter feed needed) to convert offline to 24/352.8k (aka DXD).  This is using the broad assumption that you use the Lyngdorf in a normal digital way.  I use the same logic for folks who want to get into DSD but at the end of the day (and signal path) I find out they use digital speaker crossovers like Behringer...aka PCM.

Be nice to your digital music. 

[holzohr]

Ted, the Matrix is connected with the TDAI 2200 via analog XLR. I admit that gave me a headache before if that will make sense at all, this D(SD)/A --> A/D processing. All I can say is it makes sense (to me). Though in the first days I was not really happy with the sound. I guess the DAC and also the Lyngdorf A/D card (it was new, too) needed a burn-in time. So now I am not wasting any thought about that D/A ->> A/D processing anymore  Ok, from time to time I do 

For the future I plan to change to active speakers (indeed that' s more urgent than a DAC upgrade) so the Lyngdorf amp is not here for eternal, probably. Btw the new TDAI 2170 has an asynchronus USB DAC but DSD is not implemented in the firmware yet. Still waiting for a news-update from Denmark. 

[BPT]

Ted:
The Lyngdorf processes digital at 24/96 (maybe 24/192 in the newest stuff--don't know), so he should convert DSD to the native sample process rate for best results.  That way it isn't converted again inside the unit.
Chris H.

[ted_b]

Chris,
Your point is a good one, but especially if he were sending digital PCM to the Lyngdorf...send it in 24/xxx, whatever the Lyngdorf can handle without more up or down sampling.  He is coming into the Lyngdorf via analog, so is he doing an A/D, regardless.  So how he gets his music to analog is up to him.  The PCM or DSD rate before he goes analog is now kinda irrelevant to his final step,  going analog to PCM (24/96, let's say).  So he needs to determine what sounds good to him in analog, but his bottleneck or weak link is that final A/D.  So having a DAC that does native DSD is secondary to that. 

Holzohr, can you come in digitally?  It would mean huge advances and would eliminate a number of conversions now happening in your signal path. 

[holzohr]

I shouldn't have mentioned the Lyngdorf  I know the additional A/D processing sounds strange and not optimal for purists  The built-in DAC (Wolfson somethings) can handle 24bit/192kHz. The ADC converts the analog signal to 24/96.

I have bought the amp without that ADC, it came with digital inputs only so I was practicing the digital way with an Oppo 103 and a HDMI-Audio De-embedder for several months. I liked what the Lyngdorf made of the Oppo's 88.2kHz PCM with SACDs and DSD-files playback and preferred it compared to the Matrix - ADC connection in their first days here but that changed totally. At the end I even removed the HDMI-Audio De-embedder and connected the Oppo and the amp analog. This ADC is doing a great job, I even like to listen to vinyl again. So for the moment it is ok (to me) as it is.

For the future I plan a less complicated rig. Active speakers (B&M Prime 6). Then I could hook a DAC directly via analog XLR until I have found an analog preamp alternative. It seems that I have to say farvel to Lyngdorf sooner or later. Won't be that easy   

[TF1216]

Has anyone listened to the "DSD Battle Royale!" yet?

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?11944-DSD-Battle-Royale!&p=231876&viewfull=1#post231876