AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Vinyl Circle => Topic started by: PDR on 2 Aug 2014, 11:50 pm
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Had been following the thread at DIY audio for a long time.
Cost was prohibitive so I didnt think I'd ever get one.
There was an offer made from Vibrato a new ultrasonic cleaner
company just for audio guys. It allowed me to get a machine to
my door for under $400......yeah! thats a deal shipped to Canada.
By the time I built this unit the total cost was about $470
Thats a deal for a machine that retails for over $4000.
OK, mine might not be as convenient, or as pretty...but
I'll take the money savings anyday..... :wink:
It works VERY well. I've had it up and running since
last night. Have cleaned about 15 albums so far.
Just going to make a filtration system now to save on fluid.
I'm using 4 litres distilled water, 3 oz of 99% Isopropanol,
and 3/4 oz of Kodak photo flo
I used minimal pieces to keep the build simple and easy.
A BBQ rotisserie motor @ 1 RPM is the drive.
Few pieces of 1-1/2" alum angle, a few screws, piano hinge, and
a few spare bits hanging around.....voila!
Works like a charm.
Perry
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm170/PDRCanada/20140801_163501_zpsac10883a.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/PDRCanada/media/20140801_163501_zpsac10883a.jpg.html)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm170/PDRCanada/20140801_163528_zps85117ac1.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/PDRCanada/media/20140801_163528_zps85117ac1.jpg.html)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm170/PDRCanada/20140801_163542_zps7ef68e50.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/PDRCanada/media/20140801_163542_zps7ef68e50.jpg.html)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm170/PDRCanada/20140801_163625_zpsc519da59.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/PDRCanada/media/20140801_163625_zpsc519da59.jpg.html)
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm170/PDRCanada/20140801_163850_zps90ed3670.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/PDRCanada/media/20140801_163850_zps90ed3670.jpg.html)
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Very cool Perry, almost makes me want to set up my turntable again......naaaah. :lol:
Best,
Ed
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Hi Perry,
Yes, coolness in the extreme. Is the deal still available? How do you dry the records?
neo
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Hi PDR,
I like your record cleaner.
Just last night I found my old Allsop record cleaner but no pads to go with it.
I guess I could use paper towels or Terri cloth for pads.
I was also thinking of using a spray bottle with a little dish soap and water.
Think it'll work ?
No Pad:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103289)
Paper towel
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103290)
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oops void
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Hi Perry,
Yes, coolness in the extreme. Is the deal still available? How do you dry the records?
neo
Yep, still available https://www.tindie.com/products/VibratoLLC/6-quart-60khz-vibrato-ultrasonic-cleaner/?pt=directsearch
Just air dry.....only takes a few minutes. There is Kodak photo flo in the fluid so no water marks or dry marks.
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Very cool, that's a great price too.
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Yep, still available https://www.tindie.com/products/VibratoLLC/6-quart-60khz-vibrato-ultrasonic-cleaner/?pt=directsearch
Just air dry.....only takes a few minutes. There is Kodak photo flo in the fluid so no water marks or dry marks.
So with this method, there will be no or very little fluid on the label??
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On the DIY Audio thread they are all worried about
protecting the label....This doesnt spin fast enough to
let water accumulate to even fall to the label, so I dont know what
theyre concerned about.
The fluid mixture is 4 litres of distlled
water, 3oz of Isopropanol 99%, and 3/4oz of kodak photo-flo.
The photo-flo prevents beading and spotting on photos
when theyre being developed, it does the same on the album.
Its cheap at about $10 a bottle.
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This thread as been inactive for a while, and in the meantime the cost of ultrasonic cleaners has really come down.
I've been trying out this unit for about a week, and I'm really impressed- and for under $130 to my door. I've got a little 1 rmp motor on its way from China for another $8. With a few bits and pieces from the garage, I'll have this thing working on automatic for just about $150 :o. It specs very similar to the commercial record cleaning units, and seems to be reasonably well made.
I suspect a motorized multi LP arm will take me a couple of hours to make... not super complicated.
I'll dry on my Nitty Gritty.
Updates after the motor arrives.
(http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/UT8WObEXxVaXXagOFbXs/225502080/UT8WObEXxVaXXagOFbXs.jpg)
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What frequency is that ultrasonic cleaner?
-Jim
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Very interesting! :) I'll be looking forward to your updates.
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What frequency is that ultrasonic cleaner?
-Jim
It's 40Khz. Some of the commercial RCM use 40, some use 60. The 40 is more aggressive, but testing by diy'ers indicates no damage to cavitation erosion. I found a site showing photos of before and after extended exposure of vinyl with no visible wear at high magnification. Seems that vinyl is fairly forgiving, as there are no reports of any black residue. I may put a sacrificial 45 in for an hour to test for damage. I've been using 3 minute cleaning cyles, meaning at the end of the cycle the vinyl has been immersed for about 1 minute. An hour would far exceed any reasonble exposure.
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Indeed. Prices have dropped tremendously and really vary depending on convenience features and number of records that can be cleaned at a time. You have one of these and a Nitty Gritty (or equivalent Audio Advisor, VPI, Oki-Nokki, etc...), and you're done!
Top 4 links here:
http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Ultrasonic+vinyl&isNewKw=1&isRefine=true&mfs=GOCLK&acimp=0&_trksid=p2056088.m2428.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xultrasonic+vinyl&sqp=ultrasonic+vinyl
The Vibrato cleaners are higher frequency (69khz and 80khz), and more $$$
The Encylopedia Brittanica on ultrasonic cleaning: http://www.tmasc.com/qa%20process.htm
Enjoy and thanks SClark for resurrecting this thread.
Best,
Anand.
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Yes, please do SClark, very interested.
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I wonder if anyone here has had any experience with ultrasonic cleaners as relief for arthritis in the hand. I've read that it does work, and I'm thinking of an older friend, a musician whose arthritis is starting to affect his ability to play—and he's a top rank jazz trombonist. This would be an economical solution, perhaps.
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I found the ultrasonic unit on eBay.....great prices. Im excited that I'll be able to afford an ultrasonic cleaner after all. Have 600 albums to do. I thought I had read some time ago that the best frequency was 80 kHz. Any comments on that?
Nick
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I found the ultrasonic unit on eBay.....great prices. Im excited that I'll be able to afford an ultrasonic cleaner after all. Have 600 albums to do. I thought I had read some time ago that the best frequency was 80 kHz. Any comments on that?
Nick
Addressed above.
-Jim
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Jim,
40 kHz, 60, 69 and 80 were mentioned above and SClark mentioned 40 as being the most aggressive. I didn't see any reference to a direct comparison. I was hoping someone had tested each frequency and come to a conclusion. Also, I would think the higher frequency would do the best job of cleaning
Nick
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There is a thread over on DIYAudio and in it is a comparison of 40 and 60KHz cleaners. Don't remember the exact post, but my take was that they both work well. Have no clue about higher frequencies, but the lower the frequency, the more aggressive the cavitation. The study I read about cavitation erosion was using a 20Khz cleaner.
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Harry Weisfeld of VPI seems to have played a lot with this as well. Basically his method combines a 60khz DIY UltraSonic cleaner, followed by using his son's, MW Cyclone for the final wash and vacuum. He himself states that he has not heard an audible difference between 40khz vs. higher frequencies.
Long thread here with a lot of questions answered: http://vpiindustries.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2289
Best,
Anand.
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Thanks for those responses. That is what I was looking for and I'll check out those threads
Nick
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Buyer beware! Here is what VibratoLLC said on post #1353.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218276-my-version-ultrasonic-record-cleaner-136.html
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more info on ultrasonic.
http://www.vibratollc.com/
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Interesting read. So the Chinese units may not have good quality control (surprise). I can live with that for the price. The tanks may erode... but not in my lifetime with the amount of use it will get in record cleaning. So the real issue is does it work. So far, the answer is yes. I do use ear muffs while I am standing there slowing rotating vinyl. When my 1 rpm motor arrives, I'll simply shut the door and leave the room. I will say this though, my old Jack Russell terrier hates this thing.
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I am with S Clark on this. I did a quick search and couldn't find any prices regarding the Vibrato products, but let's assume it's 2 or 3 times the Chinese products. It's just more than I'd want to pay. I doubt if the ultrasonic going haywire would damage a record, but even then, it wouldn't be a deal breaker
Nick
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Vibrato's 69KHz and 80KHz are both $675.50. The parts should be more reliable, but that is quite a bit more expensive.
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Thanks for the pricing info, GB.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144965)
Ok, it's been about a month since I've put this together with hot glue, a Whataburger malt straw, a promo pencil, $126 U-sonic cleaner, and an $8 dollar rotissarie motor.
I've probably cleaned 50-75 lps. No doubt, it works and produced a quieter lp than standard VPI type cleaners. I usually set the timer at 3 minutes, sometimes 4. I've filtered the solution three times without noticing any vinyl residue (I suspect that most of what comes off is tobacco smoke and dust). Eventually I'll do a controlled experiment with vinyl and take microphotographs, but honestly I think Ill be wasting my time. It doesn't create any audible degradation, and the cleaning is superior to standard vacuuming. For under $150. Any questions?
The dog still can hear it and can't stand it. He has to go in another room.
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Any reason not to use denatured alcohol as the base (besides being a fire hazard)?
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I have read that it can dissolve some "plastisizers", whatever those are. I simply followed some of the formulas that I found online- mostly distilled water, a couple of cups of 95% isopropyl, and a dash of surfectant like photoflo.
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Ok, it's been about a month since I've put this together with hot glue, a Whataburger malt straw, a promo pencil, $126 U-sonic cleaner, and an $8 dollar rotissarie motor.
Wicked cool!! :thumb:
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Wicked cool!! :thumb:
I have to admit, yes it is! These things are stupid expensive when bought retail, but they can be made pretty cheap now that Chinese ultrasonic units have become available. I still use a vacuum to quickly dry and get the solution off, but a spinner wouldn't be all that hard to rig up. If you are a vinyl user, you've got to think about building one.
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This is fantastic. Got to find the DIY audio thread and start putting parts together.
Thanks for resurrecting this thread.
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This is too cool to leave off my list. Thanks (excitement and a little sarcasm, so many projects i want to do and time is limited). Definitely on the summer list now.
How about attaching a blower, so instead of going to s typical vacuum machine, we can use air to blow the liquid off. Like at the end if a car wash.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144968)
https://www.amazon.com/Brushless-Radial-Blower-Centrifugal-4-72x4-72x1-26/dp/B01CSNEO2G/ref=sr_1_79?ie=UTF8&qid=1465957368&sr=8-79&keywords=blower+fan
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The blower should work quite well, especially if you could rig the rotisserie motor to turn the lp while the fan dried it.
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I'd think a blower, while certainly removing fluid, would also draw any ambient dust and particles in and deposit them back onto the record surface.
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I agree. Either a spinner or a vacuum would be the best solution.
Here is a pic of the fit of the shaft into the connector (pencil & straw) The spacers are the closed foam packing that came with the cleaner. I figure that a wavelength of about 3 cm was needed for 60 KHz in water. It's not exact since I didn't account for the alcohol, which should lengthen it a bit.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144994)
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I'm sure you've seen many of these buy options, but this guy had a nice solution, fairly easy to fabricate on your own from wood or plastic. He also sells the bits and pieces.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161402849405?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/161402849405?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
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I agree. Either a spinner or a vacuum would be the best solution.
Here is a pic of the fit of the shaft into the connector (pencil & straw) The spacers are the closed foam packing that came with the cleaner. I figure that a wavelength of about 3 cm was needed for 60 KHz in water. It's not exact since I didn't account for the alcohol, which should lengthen it a bit.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144994)
Are these just standard pvc fittings?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=144996)
http://www.hifigem.com/UpgradeHCAtoMKII.html
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I saw that kit for rotation. Let's see, he wants $290 :lol:... and I've got $8 in mine.
As far as the kit to keep the label dry, it's not needed. Rotating at 1 RPM the solution runs off and doesn't get on the label.
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Yeah, his stuff is very expensive, and even if cheap I'd stay far away from it. But that doesn't mean there aren't a few good ideas to borrow from his contraption. :thumb:
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Yeah, his stuff is very expensive, and even if cheap I'd stay far away from it. But that doesn't mean there aren't a few good ideas to borrow from his contraption. :thumb:
Absolutely. I like the adjustable height. I'll eventually get around to redoing the rotisserie to make it more adjustable. Right now, the solution level has to be just right to keep the label out and the record submerged. Actually, things would be simpler if the cleaning tank were just a cm longer... but it's not. An lp is about 1/8 inch too big. You can put it in at an angle, but then it will only hold 2 lps, or raise it up until you gain clearance to let it run 3 lps at a time.
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I've now probably cleaned over 250 lp's, filtered solution 5-6 times, replaced it twice. My experience is that no degradation occurs, no extra noise introduced, and just very clean, quiet vinyl is the result.
On lp's that had previously been wet vacuum cleaned, there is still a noticeable improvement. On thrift store stuff, I wipe them down with a wet cloth first. In both cases, this $150 cleaner is excellent.
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Scott, how many litres is your unit?
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Sorry that I didn't notice this... been out of town. Mine has a 6.5L capacity, and it's barely large enough.
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S Clark, are you still liking it?
What fluid do you use?
Thanks,
Jim
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It cleans much, much better than just using a Nitty Gritty. I'll never go back to just vacuum. The solution is water, alcohol, and triton X. There are lots of recipes out there. It does need to be filtered reasonably often (~30 lps) and changed every 60-90.
I still use a vacuum to dry, and believe it's an important step
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This looks neat for this cleaner, but $380??? Over 2x the cost of the Ultrasonic cleaner itself...
http://cleanervinyl.weebly.com/cleanervinyl-pro.html
-Jim
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Yeah, that's kind of silly for some spacers and a ten dollar stepper motor. And I really don't think it would work that well. I try to space my lp's > 1 wavelength apart... about 3 cm. He advertises 12 lp's at a time... no way. I can get three, but usually one or two just because it's easier.
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Yeah, that's kind of silly for some spacers and a ten dollar stepper motor. And I really don't think it would work that well. I try to space my lp's > 1 wavelength apart... about 3 cm. He advertises 12 lp's at a time... no way. I can get three, but usually one or two just because it's easier.
Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.....
-Jim
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This thread as been inactive for a while, and in the meantime the cost of ultrasonic cleaners has really come down.
I've been trying out this unit for about a week, and I'm really impressed- and for under $130 to my door. I've got a little 1 rmp motor on its way from China for another $8. With a few bits and pieces from the garage, I'll have this thing working on automatic for just about $150 :o. It specs very similar to the commercial record cleaning units, and seems to be reasonably well made.
I suspect a motorized multi LP arm will take me a couple of hours to make... not super complicated.
I'll dry on my Nitty Gritty.
Updates after the motor arrives.
(http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/UT8WObEXxVaXXagOFbXs/225502080/UT8WObEXxVaXXagOFbXs.jpg)
This all sounds great, I am sure it would be a step up from my DIY Vacum RCM. Do you have a link for your DIY kit?
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There is no kit. That expensive thing is all there is... Shit, I'd buy it if I thought the price was no more than 3x the cost. But it seems high, or the means of production are wildly inefficient. (such as 3D printing instead of hiring a plastics place for a small run)
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My rig was not a kit, just an ebay ultrasonic unit, an ebay 110V stepper motor, and some parts out of the garage. I hot glued two bits of plywood, one to hold the motor, one with a V slot to support a pencil. The pencil attached to the motor shaft with friction fit to a piece of a plastic straw. The straw attached to the shaft with a pin, but you could hot glue it also. The record goes on the pencil, spaced and held with 2 three" diameter pieces of foam with a hole in the center. The foam keeps the record from slipping on the shaft and spaces if you clean more than one at a time.
Look at reply #28 in this thread for a photo.
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Sorry that I didn't notice this... been out of town. Mine has a 6.5L capacity, and it's barely large enough.
I found the 6 L Capacity on ebay, linked below. Are you sure your cleaner is 6.5? I want to buy one but want to make sure it will fit a record of course
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/6L-Digital-Stainless-Steel-Ultra-Sonic-Bath-Cleaning-Tank-Cleaner-Timer-Heater-/302031320187?hash=item465278347b:g:1eoAAOSwJqpXoYPA
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That sure looks like the same one. On the plate with serial # it states the capacity as 6.5L, along with the voltage, amps, etc.
Looks like they've gone up about $40. But I can attest that they do work well.
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That sure looks like the same one. On the plate with serial # it states the capacity as 6.5L, along with the voltage, amps, etc.
Looks like they've gone up about $40. But I can attest that they do work well.
Here is the plate off the one I see on ebay. As you can see it says 6 L. I guess the real question would be, are your dimensions on your plate the same as the dimensions on this plate?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152023)
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Yep, those are the same dimensions. With a full tank, records can go straight in. My solution comes up to within about an inch of the top, and my records go in at a slight angle to get them to fit. I simply have my axle moveable on the side away from the motor.
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If my math is correct, 300mm x 150mm x 150mm is 6.75L. 6.0, 6.5, 6.75L, we're all friends right :thumb:
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My guess is that those dimensions are to the very top of the tank, and the 6 or 6.5L capacity is some estimation of working volume. Regardless, it's about 3 mm short of letting an lp fit completely into it, so you either have to immerse part way (no problem since you don't want the label wet) or put it an an angle.
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I saw that kit for rotation. Let's see, he wants $290 :lol:... and I've got $8 in mine.
As far as the kit to keep the label dry, it's not needed. Rotating at 1 RPM the solution runs off and doesn't get on the label.
There's another on ebay selling his DIY attachment for cleaning records using the same ultrasonic cleaner.
It's a $100 cheaper.
He also has a $27 add on for 2 LPs, and another version for 12 LPs.
(http://cleanervinyl.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/8/9/26897907/1609488.jpg?545)
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Link, don't just post a pic.
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Says CleanerVinyl in the pic:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CleanerVinyl-One-Attachment-Ultrasonic-Vinyl-Record-Cleaning-/322270132862?hash=item4b08cbfa7e:g:8XsAAOSwdzVXlSau
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Link, don't just post a pic.
Sorry about that.
There is also a website, with videos -
http://www.cleanervinyl.com/
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These people are foolish. The price is still absurd. Why are they 3D printing? 3D printing is for prototypes and things that can't possibly be cast. They could pay a casting place to make a run for not much money, and sell them very low, and able to fit 3 discs, no less. Then they'd be flying off the shelf. People would buy them to use for vacuum systems too if they were adaptable.
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These people are foolish. The price is still absurd. Why are they 3D printing? 3D printing is for prototypes and things that can't possibly be cast. They could pay a casting place to make a run for not much money, and sell them very low, and able to fit 3 discs, no less. Then they'd be flying off the shelf. People would buy them to use for vacuum systems too if they were adaptable.
Agree. The 1 rpm stepper motors are cheap (<$10) and the rest is basically plastic and a couple of screws. Just not enough value for 200 bucks. Now if it was $59, it would be worth it not to DIY.
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Agree. The 1 rpm stepper motors are cheap (<$10) and the rest is basically plastic and a couple of screws. Just not enough value for 200 bucks. Now if it was $59, it would be worth it not to DIY.
Stepper motor - fancy . A cheap hobby motor with built in gear reduction is fine. No need for a controller then.
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Stepper motor - fancy . A cheap hobby motor with built in gear reduction is fine. No need for a controller then.
They were cheap Chinese surplus stuff from fleabay... but don't seem to be available. Looks like some decent options are still under $20
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If those were $60, could hold 3 records (the max you want in these tanks, it seems) you'd be doing awesome. You could have a sonic cleaner for $200! That's pretty much impossible to beat. I bet you could bulk buy the cleaners and sell as a package too.
Although a vacuum setup for drying would be nice, it's not an absolute necessity.
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Although a vacuum setup for drying would be nice, it's not an absolute necessity.
Some of the other U.S. cleaner fans may disagree, but I kinda think that vacuum dry is actually a big deal. Letting the fluid dry on the record leaves a bit more noise in the groove, or at least, that's my experience. And if you are going to go through this much trouble to clean an lp over a spin clean, then go the extra mile.
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The first way I cleaned records was windshield wiper fluid and a towel. It worked great, actually... but I didn't know back then that over time it probably wouldn't be good for records over time (too much alcohol for regular use).
But I do agree that your best choice is to vacuum, but a towel will work way better than air (not recommended) if you haven't got the vacuum going yet.
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Good article on the online high end magazine, Positive-Feedback, on DIY ultrasonic record cleaning.
http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/rushton-paul-diy-approach-ultrasonic-cleaning-lps/ (http://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/rushton-paul-diy-approach-ultrasonic-cleaning-lps/)
Quite a good article, actually. It includes an interesting formula for cleaning fluid.
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Been researching Ultrasonic for a few weeks now after I came across this thread. I took the plunge and bought the 6L Tank. I actually found a really good price here in Canada off of ebay.ca.
$219 shipped with no tax. That is 164 US. I will add a DIY auto Spin Function and I am all set. I have a DIY Record Cleaning machine already but I was always wondering if I was just pushing dirt deeper into the grooves. I can use it to dry the records now, as long as the ultra sonic works out. Here is the link for anyone interested.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Stainless-Steel-6L-Liter-Industry-Heated-6L-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Heater-w-Timer-CA-/252460817093?hash=item3ac7d65ac5:g:QLwAAOSwzLlXhzg3#shpCntId
I will post my impressions as soon as I clean a few albums.
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Eager to hear your impressions and to see pics of your set up.
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Absolutely. I like the adjustable height. I'll eventually get around to redoing the rotisserie to make it more adjustable. Right now, the solution level has to be just right to keep the label out and the record submerged. Actually, things would be simpler if the cleaning tank were just a cm longer... but it's not. An lp is about 1/8 inch too big. You can put it in at an angle, but then it will only hold 2 lps, or raise it up until you gain clearance to let it run 3 lps at a time.
What are your thoughts on minimum tank size, L x W x D? With so many available, i cant always correlate volume with dimensions for our purpises (can you believe people actually use these for non-LP cleaning purposes ! The horror )
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It should be shipped in 3 to 10 days I think. It might take me a while to get a proper motor setup. I will macgyver a spinny thing in the meantime
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152484)
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What are your thoughts on minimum tank size, L x W x D? With so many available, i cant always correlate volume with dimensions for our purpises (can you believe people actually use these for non-LP cleaning purposes ! The horror )
Well, the 6L/6.5L tanks are just barely big enough for a records to go straight in if the fluid is close to the top. As you the level drops, you have to angle the record to gain a couple of mm's. Anything smaller won't work. The big 10L tanks would work great, but have a lot of excess capacity.
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I considered the 10L as well but went with the 6L. I saw your pictures and you had 2 records on you spindle and it looks like it works. I measured a record and at the bottom of the label it measures around 11 1/4 wide. I figure it should leave about 1/4 inch or so each side of the tank when the records are inside. The 10L seemed a little overkill in size. For 2 records is the size still working out for you S Clark?
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For 2 records is the size still working out for you S Clark?
Yep
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Hi all
Has anyone seen the video on how to test to see if your ultrasonic cleaner is working by putting in a small piece of tin foil? After a few min. a bunch of holes formed in the foil. Is there some tech reason metal is affected but vinyl is not? I believe if it did affect vinyl in any way, there would be a thread called
What I did to my ultrasonic welder! Involving firearms, explosives and moving trucks. Am I wrong?
bout ready to pull the trigger on this project.
Scott
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My 6 L arrived yesterday (only took 2 days to ship). Tonight I will be testing and cleaning a few records. so far I just filled it and turned it on. Starting to sketch out some ideas for the electronic record spinner manly made up of oak. The ultrasonic cleaner itself seems pretty good. Simple to use. I thought it would be louder and 6L is a the right size for me. Build quality seems fine. I will post my impressions when I have some.
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...Build quality seems fine. I will post my impressions when I have some.
And?
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And?
Well I rigged up a little stand and spinner with some wood clamps and a screw. I just cleaned 2 records. Pink Floyd Obscured by Clouds and The Carpenters (they are my guilty Pleasure). Both these records have been cleaned with my DIY Vacume Machine but I knew they still have some noise. Before I cleaned each record I listened to two songs, taking note of the background noise and clicks and pops. Definitely and improvement in background noise. Definitely and improvement with clicks and pops.........much much cleaner. I can not say the click and pops are gone because they are not. They have be reduced significantly.
I know this is by no means a thorough comparison.
I am listening to the Carpenters as I type and am a little shocked how much better it sounds.
I used Distilled water and 240ml of Isopropyl alcohol and Dryed the records with my RCM.
My next project is to make the stand and motor.......good times
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152581)
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I bet a little X-100 would make them even cleaner.
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I bet a little X-100 would make them even cleaner.
That stuff is a little pricey and is difficult to find it seems. Is there anything similar / cheaper / easy to obtain, that would do the trick?
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Are you kidding? This bottle (https://www.amazon.com/Triton-X-100-Surfactant-500ml-Purity/dp/B009RZZB76) will last the rest of your life.... well probably.
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Are you kidding? This bottle (https://www.amazon.com/Triton-X-100-Surfactant-500ml-Purity/dp/B009RZZB76) will last the rest of your life.... well probably.
Lol, yeah, stuff doesn't get much cheaper than this.
-Jim
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Glad you like the results. I have had the same experiences with mine. It's as much better than vacuum rcm, as vacuum is over a DiscWasher... a big step up. :thumb:
And Folsom's right, 500ml of Triton X will last you for decades.
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Oh...........ok. So is just a few drops added to the mixture or something. What is the benefit of Triton?
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It reduces surface tension, allowing water molecules to penetrate into the grooves more deeply. Basically, it's like a soap with little residue.
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Yup, and this one doesn't leave residue, photoflo leaves a little.
There's also something you can add to reduce static but I forget what that was, started with an H.
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So how much Triton X100 would I be adding to approximately 6L of mixture? A cap full? a drop? 3 drops? The reason I ask is I found a supplier and the price difference between 500ml and 1 L is only 15 bucks.
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I added about 3 ml, or half a cap.
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I have a Vibrato ultrasonic cleaner which works well. My only problem is that there is no drain in the unit. I bought a pump, but it struggles to pull the solution up and out of the unit. Does anybody have any advice on how to add a drain to the pan? My only thought was to buy a used ultrasonic cleaner with a drain and cannabalize the pan from it. I checked around the plumbing section of Home Depot & Lowes, but all I found were drains that were too large for my needs. Thanks for any advice you can give.
Kevin T
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It would sure be easier to get a better pump. Perhaps something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/Koehler-Enterprises-RA990-Multi-Use-Transfer/dp/B0181EDCZ6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1479136251&sr=8-2&keywords=hand+pump+liquid
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Not nearly as elegant as I was thinking, but it looks cheap and easy. I was wanting to have the tank drain through a pump and then refill the ultrasonic pan after the solution passed through a filter. I guess I could use that device to pump the solution into a container. Then use the container as an infinite loop to filter (drain out of the bottom, pump/push through filter, and refill into the top). Now I just need a 6L container that has a drain on the bottom.
Kevin T
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I have been working on for the past week and final finished. It turned out really nice and works perfectly. I had to buy the motor and motor control from a local hobby / electronic shop and I had some wood kicking around the work room.
I kinda copied a design I found online but tweaked it to my preference. Mainly I wanted to be hands free when I add and remove the records. That is where the back arm lifts with the motor attached. I still need to make the mechanism to hold the arm up when raised. Another challenge was holding the records on. I could not find an appropriate clip to hold records on with a smooth metal bar so I had to go with threaded rod and wing nuts. Then I realized it was taking me too much time and effort to screw and un screw the wing nut onto the rod. So I came up with using the cotter pin. Works well for now but I will be on the look out for other options, if anyone had ideas, please let me know.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153471)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153472)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153473)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153474)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153476)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153477)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153478)
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I have been working on for the past week and final finished. It turned out really nice and works perfectly. I had to buy the motor and motor control from a local hobby / electronic shop and I had some wood kicking around the work room.
I kinda copied a design I found online but tweaked it to my preference. Mainly I wanted to be hands free when I add and remove the records. That is where the back arm lifts with the motor attached. I still need to make the mechanism to hold the arm up when raised. Another challenge was holding the records on. I could not find an appropriate clip to hold records on with a smooth metal bar so I had to go with threaded rod and wing nuts. Then I realized it was taking me too much time and effort to screw and un screw the wing nut onto the rod. So I came up with using the cotter pin. Works well for now but I will be on the look out for other options, if anyone had ideas, please let me know.
Looks good!
Could you list the motor and controller brand and model numbers?
It would be nice to use one that has already been tested, instead of having to 'reinvent the wheel'.
Thanks!
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Looks good!
Could you list the motor and controller brand and model numbers?
It would be nice to use one that has already been tested, instead of having to 'reinvent the wheel'.
Thanks!
Sure. I really didn't know what I needed for the motor and controller but it was pretty straight forward once the dude at the store gavve me what I needed.
The motor is
37D 131:1
80 rpm 0.3A s:5A 250oz -in
(at the slowest point it goes around 3 rmp. at the fasted it goes like 80 or something)
The motor controller is
PWM 10A
AMS12402P 10-100% 13k
not sure if this helps, but that what the packages say. I dont have brand names to go by for these.
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Quick question: how do you use a vacuum machine to dry it, when both sides are wet? ...doesn't that just make the platter on the machine wet when you flip it over?
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Quick question: how do you use a vacuum machine to dry it, when both sides are wet? ...doesn't that just make the platter on the machine wet when you flip it over?
Good question, I realized that it might be an issue as I was cleaning my first record. Turns out it wasn't a big deal though. On my DIY cleaning machine I have a rubber turntable mat similar to the one pictured. Just the ridges of the mat get a little wet and it is not a concern for me.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153893)
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Whereas mine is a variation on the Nitty Gritty RCM. It is only supported from the label area.
(http://www.analogplanet.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/recordoc.jpg?itok=hWiAi9yd)
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It's here and fairly affordable due to 3D printing technology:
http://www.cleanervinyl.com
$379 for the 12 record attachment, $139 for the 6L Ultrasonic cleaner from Amazon and $129 for the dryer, total is $647 shipping included.
A nice price for fellas who don't want to DIY. In 1 hour you'll have 12 records cleaned and dried.
Best,
Anand.
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Just an update on my DIY Ultrasonic RCM for anyone interested in this method. I have started cleaning my whole collection, its about 350 records as of now. I have been putting on the albums after a cleaning and WoW! this thing is cleaning them really well, They sound fantastic.. I dont think it can get any better than thins, they sound pristine
My Method.
Heat water until it is about 30 degrees C
Spin 2 records for 3 mins
Vacuum dry on DIY Vacum RCM
Using
Distilled water
Isopropyl alcohol
Triton X100
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Just an update on my DIY Ultrasonic RCM for anyone interested in this method. I have started cleaning my whole collection, its about 350 records as of now. I have been putting on the albums after a cleaning and WoW! this thing is cleaning them really well, They sound fantastic.. I dont think it can get any better than thins, they sound pristine
My Method.
Heat water until it is about 30 degrees C
Spin 2 records for 3 mins
Vacuum dry on DIY Vacum RCM
Using
Distilled water
Isopropyl alcohol
Triton X100
how many RPMs in that 3 mins?
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how many RPMs in that 3 mins?
3.5 RPM is the lowest speed of my motor. that is what I run it at
so 3.5 X 3 mins = 10.5 Revolutions
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Interesting.
I've heard different people get different results with slower speeds -- only doing one 10min revolution...
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Interesting.
I've heard different people get different results with slower speeds -- only doing one 10min revolution...
This is the speed I have to work with. Seems like it works great. I feel the Triton x100 and the heat did wonders
I am scared to put the records back in the Sleeves now. some dust might get on them :)
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I am scared to put the records back in the Sleeves now. some dust might get on them :)
And you should be. After all the trouble you've gone to to get them clean, spend a couple of dimes to get a new sleeve.
Here is my go to sleeve and it's source. http://www.sleevecityusa.com/Diskeeper-2-0-Antistatic-Record-Sleeves-p/9235.htm
A few of my more valued lp's go into a MFSL sleeve.
I'm glad to hear that your impressions are similar to mine. I haven't used the heater yet, simply cleaning at room temp. I'll try it on the next batch.
Ultra sonic is the way to go, and is a clear upgrade to vacuum cleaning.
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ya I really should upgrade my sleeves. Thanks for the link.
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I went Big Baller (http://www.sleevecityusa.com/diskeeper-ultimate-audiophile-inner-sleeve-p/312nlps.htm) for my inner sleeves. Maybe I'd feel different if I had more than 150 LP's or so... na, I love these sleeves. They don't crumple, they're non-static, and very tough.
But I need outside sleeves now... :lol: any experience with the different sizes from SleeveCity?
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I've used those interchangeably with the MFSL, and suspect they may be the same sleeve. But, they are too pricey for the entire 2.5K lp collection.
For outer sleeves I use the cheapest I can get.
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Hey it's your fault you bring home every stray dog! :lol:
I only keep stuff I listen to, or I'd have another 200 LP's. Don't get me wrong, I've got hundreds in my wish list.
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I don't mind the strays, cause I find some real gems that way. But there are probably 500 that should be culled. I've need to put some up for sale here after the new year. You just don't need 3 copies of Dvorak's New World Symphony.
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Just discovered this Michael Fremer Video talking about Ultrasonic Cleaners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAIpIh2Dq24
Not impressed with the Cleanervinyl.com Version at all. By the time you get the drying adapter setup the records would be already dry from air. And you need to drian the water :o
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I watched the video. He's using the same Chinese cleaner that we are. I have no earthly idea why he is cleaning for 15 minutes, as that is way overkill. I'm 3 minutes and done, then 1 minute on the Nitty Gritty to vacuum, so even less evaporative residue. I also don't like running more than 3 lp's at a time. It may not make a difference, but I've kept my spacing to at least 1 wavelength, or about 3 cm, hoping to get better results in the space between lp's. I knock out about 3 records in 10 minutes, or about the same as just three step scrubbing and vacuuming on the Nitty Gritty.
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After seeing the AUDIO DESK rollers in action I wonder if I should be manually scrubbing above the water when my records are spinning. Or would it do nothing at all or just push dirt deeper. I have not tried 3 at a time. I clean two at a time and as I vacuum the first one I leave the spin motor running on the ultrasoic so my 2nd record does not dry. I find they dry very fast.
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After seeing the AUDIO DESK rollers in action I wonder if I should be manually scrubbing above the water when my records are spinning. Or would it do nothing at all or just push dirt deeper. I have not tried 3 at a time. I clean two at a time and as I vacuum the first one I leave the spin motor running on the ultrasoic so my 2nd record does not dry. I find they dry very fast.
I had a long chat with my brother who uses USCs in a lab setting: very high end science situation. He said basically said the bubbles do all the work. Extra scrubbing, detergents, etc are pretty much redundant.
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I had a long chat with my brother who uses USCs in a lab setting: very high end science situation. He said basically said the bubbles do all the work. Extra scrubbing, detergents, etc are pretty much redundant.
this is good to know, thanks
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I had a long chat with my brother who uses USCs in a lab setting: very high end science situation. He said basically said the bubbles do all the work. Extra scrubbing, detergents, etc are pretty much redundant.
Yep, my scrubbing days are over. The vacuum is just used to dry and remove fluid.
Wait... Are you saying they don't use any surfectant? Just water?
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Yep, my scrubbing days are over. The vacuum is just used to dry and remove fluid.
Wait... Are you saying they don't use any surfectant? Just water?
Depending on the hardness of your water, you may not need anything else. Start with plain (filtered/distilled) water and check your results. That was his advice to me.
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So you don't have to use a vacuum cleaner to dry? I thought that was one of the key ways to make sure it sounded good?
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So you don't have to use a vacuum cleaner to dry? I thought that was one of the key ways to make sure it sounded good?
Drying is up to you. I'm simply commenting on the operation of the US tank.
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It's just I thought SClark said without vacuuming his, they didn't play as clean.
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It's just I thought SClark said without vacuuming his, they didn't play as clean.
I find that my cleaning fluid does suspend crap from the records, and actually pretty quickly - perhaps 10-15 cleanings. Vacuuming pulls it off the record before it can end up back in the groove. So, I'm a big advocate of vacuuming after USC. Why just let the fluid evaporate when you can pull most of it off?
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When I use an ultrasonic cleaner, there is usually a “line of debris” that adheres to the record after cleaning, so I have found it necessary to rinse and vacuum the records as well. You might ask, “Is it worth the trouble to use the ultrasonic cleaner and the vacuum?”… And yes it is! I ran a test when I first started using the ultrasonic cleaner and placed a record I had cleaned first with the vacuum and then put it in the ultrasonic cleaner. There was still a lot of particulates liberated from the record (as evident from the line of debris) after using the vacuum first.
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I haven't been on AC in a while and happened across this thread, I built one of these recently as well. Since I have a home machine shop I took advantage of it. A 90* worm drive motor from fleabay and the standard 40kHz tank. I had the rest in various bins. Very happy with the results thus far.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156213)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156214)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156215)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=156216)
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Mike,
Most elegant DIY solution I've seen. Maybe you should think about making a few more for sale. I'm sure there are more than a few who have the same US cleaner (Me) and would like the same setup.
Ron
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Hi Mike,
If you are up to it, I would be interested if you could do a few units.
Best wishes,
Nick
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Wow, that really does look simple and effective.
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That's pretty much the way mine is set up...except Mike's looks professional and mine was thrown together out of scrap plywood, soda straws, a pencil, and hot glue.
Fortunately, they both work, and work great.
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^^^^^What they said!
You might have too much on your platter already Mike, I know you are a busy guy...
Awesome work!
Anand.
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main point is to not get caught up in the details. Ultrasonic cleaning LPs is a marked step beyond vacuum machines.
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Thanks for the kind words. Certainly wasn't expecting any requests. I'll think about it, my machines are not CNC but once set up it's pretty quick to cut all the pieces. One thing I am going to change is the motor, the one in the photos is 8 RPM at 12V DC, I am running it of some old Casio 5V power brick I found in a box, so perhaps 3.5 - 4 RPM, which is OK but I ordered a 2 RPM unit and it arrived yesterday. It's also 12V, so if run on 6V it should be 1 RPM, either way, I think a little slower is better. The downside is that it's considerably smaller and will require a new mounting plate but I have a lot of 1/4 AL plate so not a big deal. It will also need a different size shaft coupling, 6mm vs 8mm but that's easy enough.
I'll think about what materials will cost, if I make some mounts you would have to source the motor, of course that's easy on ebay.
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If you were setup to quickly produce them, a couple cuts and a few holes, you'd be miles ahead of these people 3d-printing stuff at a huge premium of time and tool use.
It's not like there's any need for it to be fancy.
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+1 :thumb: What Folsom said!
Ron
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+1 I'm interested.
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me2
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Same! Definitely interested.
-Jim
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It's just I thought SClark said without vacuuming his, they didn't play as clean.
Who is SClark??? :|
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He's this incredibly talented and funny guy that gives great advice and hang around here. :thumb:
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Oh I see now. SClark is a full member. :green:
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I guess we all have our own ways to describe someone :roll:
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Batman, if the question was straight up, then I'm the guy that revived this thread when Chinese ultrasonic cleaners became available cheap. The last thing I added was my experience that vacuuming the cleaning fluid reduced noise more than simply letting the records dry.
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Cavitation erosion can happen at any frequency, right?
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Batman, if the question was straight up, then I'm the guy that revived this thread when Chinese ultrasonic cleaners became available cheap. The last thing I added was my experience that vacuuming the cleaning fluid reduced noise more than simply letting the records dry.
So was it that the vacuuming reduced the noise significantly or do you think it was the type of ultrasonic cleaners that were on the scene? Are there any studies as to the difference between evaporation (letting them dry) vs. vacuuming? Because, it seems to me, there could be a wide range of results from the machine used to even the types of cleaning agents left to dry.
Also asked you on another thread about cavitation. I have a large collection of vinyl, which has seen a lot of wear and cleaning over the years. Wondering what is the best way to preserve the vinyl at this point...and am I actually reducing the life of the records by cleaning too much?
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I can only relate my experiences, and I'm sure that there have been no studies regarding U.S. cleaning of lp's. I find that the bottom of my tank builds up a film of debris after cleaning a dozen or so records. My suspicion is that some of this remains suspended while cleaning and would find its way into the groove if the solution just evaporated. It is also my experience that records that were not vacuumed did have more tics and pops. I've had a vacuum cleaner for years, and it isn't as effective as combining it with U.S. cleaning.
Regarding degradation due to damage by cavitation, it is possible that vinyl could degrade if left for days, but I don't see it happening during a three minute cleaning, during which portions of the lp may actually only be exposed for a minute or so. I don't find a need to put my timer any higher.
As to frequencies, I've read that lower frequencies can be more aggressive in cleaning... so I assume they would have a more rapid cavitation erosion. Again, I don't think it's a problem. You U.S. clean a record once, put it in a new sleeve and it shouldn't need it again.
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Same! Definitely interested.
-Jim
Mike, add me to the folks interested.
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add me also ,Mike :thumb:
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You U.S. clean a record once, put it in a new sleeve and it shouldn't need it again.
I have cleaned my several times over their lives in my posession, using solution, not vacuum. Wondering now.
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I have cleaned my several times over their lives in my posession, using solution, not vacuum. Wondering now.
It depends on the environment in which the record is played. I find that I may need to brush a record after playing as crap falls on it from the air, or on dry days static causes it to pick up a Jack Russell terrier hair or two. Occasionally, I'll screw up and get a fingerprint on one. So there may be a reason to re-clean... but not often.
Also, vacuum cleaning is a big step up from simple washing and scrubbing, and U.S. is a step up from just vacuuming.
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Why don't we just Swiffer (TM)(R) them? I am serious. No brush, Swiff?
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Batman, if the question was straight up,
@SClark--which question and what does that mean, if it was straight up?
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Do what works for you. For me, ultrasonic cleaning is the best way I've encountered for cleaning records. I recommend it, and now it's affordable.
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Do what works for you. For me, ultrasonic cleaning is the best way I've encountered for cleaning records. I recommend it, and now it's affordable.
What price range do you consider affordable?
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What price range do you consider affordable?
They entered the market at $5k for a unit that would clean one LP. Right now you can buy a ultra sonic bath and a DIY style rotation unit that does 3-4 LPs at a time for $600. If you have an old vacuum machine for drying, even better.
Buying everything brand new, you are still in for under $1K.
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They entered the market at $5k for a unit that would clean one LP. Right now you can buy a ultra sonic bath and a DIY style rotation unit that does 3-4 LPs at a time for $600. If you have an old vacuum machine for drying, even better.
Buying everything brand new, you are still in for under $1K.
I think my DIY Ultra Sonic was just over 300 bucks all in. That's including the Ultra Sonic bath, parts for my automatic Spinner. Other than that just some much needed time alone in the workroom, listening to tunes working on the design and building it. I can do at least 2 LPs when cleaning, I have not tried 3 yet.
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Mike add me to the list as well!
Tuan
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Mike, add me to the list as well...
Unless you have a Kit listing for us to purchase and assemble!
Thanks
Tuan
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What price range do you consider affordable?
I built mine for about $150. Most vacuum units cost more than that- and vacuum units are worth the money... if reducing tics and pops is a high priority for you. Like most questions regarding cost, it depends on how much of your life you have to sell to put back $100.
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I built mine for about $150. Most vacuum units cost more than that- and vacuum units are worth the money... if reducing tics and pops is a high priority for you. Like most questions regarding cost, it depends on how much of your life you have to sell to put back $100.
Do you have a list of parts, assembly instructions you can share with me (the rest of us)?
Thanks
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Mine is pretty rough looking. There's a pic on page two of this thread. It's hot glue, scrap plywood, an ebay motor (there's a 3/4 rmp now for $12 that would work), a pencil, a straw that fits the pencil, and a tiny nail for a pin. That's it. but it works.
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Mine is pretty rough looking. There's a pic on page two of this thread. It's hot glue, scrap plywood, an ebay motor (there's a 3/4 rmp now for $12 that would work), a pencil, a straw that fits the pencil, and a tiny nail for a pin. That's it. but it works.
hey, it's to clean records, not an art piece! :) :thumb:
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S Clark or anyone else for that matter - A picture is worth a 1000 words, do you happen to have a picture of your vacuum set up?
I have all kinds of ideas about how to go about rigging up a vacuum system, including connecting a shop vac hose to some sort of a mount.
Would love to see some ideas here. I'm a great copier of good ideas!
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I'm also certain this is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbphnT1d-ys) the BEST option out there.
http://www.squeakycleanvinyl.com/home.html
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I'm also certain this is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbphnT1d-ys) the BEST option out there.
http://www.squeakycleanvinyl.com/home.html
Not as good as ultra sonic cleaning, but from every thing I can see, probably does as good a job as any vacuum record cleaning machine out there.
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The point is you use it after you sonic clean. You missed the post just prior to that one.
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The point is you use it after you sonic clean. You missed the post just prior to that one.
oops!
My bad.
Thanks for pointing that out.
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S Clark or anyone else for that matter - A picture is worth a 1000 words, do you happen to have a picture of your vacuum set up?
Go back to page 2, somewhere past post #20 and you'll find pics. (#28 and #37)
(http://thumbs2.picclick.com/d/l400/pict/322309426621_/Nitty-Gritty-Record-Master-1-Black-Vinyl-45-78-Lp-Record.jpg)
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I came across this guys design and build on Youtube.
I think it is kind of ingenious. And easier to load and unload albums. Problem I see is it only does 12" records.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO3kF3sWi0g
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He has done prototypes of 10 and 7 inch versions. It's referenced in his recent video where he sold one of these LP3s. You can see it 1:35 into this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN5icYtfl5I
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Does anyone know what the rollers he uses are?
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I love the smell of TRITON X - 100 in the evening
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I really don't think the rollers are ideal.
Mine should be up and running before long, a week or so.
The irony is I have very few albums compared to most people. If I'm not into something I don't hang on to it. But I'm going to offer cleaning locally so the machine will hopefully stay active. We'll see what the demand is like, I don't want to be doing too many!
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What do you think is better? He allegedly solved the wobble issue. If he has,the compact size seems to make it ideal to me. Rather that than a huge spindle that require fully removing all records each time to get to the last one.
Shawn
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I do like his design (in the video) more than mine, I think it might be more difficult to make though. I can do 3 albums at a time but it is a minor pain in the but getting them off the spindle.......but not too inconvenient that I am sorry I made it that way.
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S Clark or anyone else for that matter - A picture is worth a 1000 words, do you happen to have a picture of your vacuum set up?
I have all kinds of ideas about how to go about rigging up a vacuum system, including connecting a shop vac hose to some sort of a mount.
Would love to see some ideas here. I'm a great copier of good ideas!
After I do the ultra Sonic Cleaning I keep the 2 remaining records spinning in my solution while I vacuum the first record. This is a small shop Vac in a wooden box with a motor turning a turntable, It can go in both directions. This was my DIY cleaning machine before the DIY Ultra Sonic. Now I just use it to suck up the water after Ultra Sonic Cleaning. No more pushing the dirt deeper into the grooves.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=159766)
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Nice.
I suppose if he fixed the wobble then it's a really nice system. If I knew what he made it with I might go with it too, if it's perfectly stable. But an extra roller set is needed for 45s I guess?
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I'm also certain this is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbphnT1d-ys) the BEST option out there.
http://www.squeakycleanvinyl.com/home.html
Thanks for posting this! I'm in the process of putting a DIY ultrasonic system together and didn't want to drop hundreds of dollars on a vacuum machine, this one looks perfect for what I need.
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Thanks for posting this! I'm in the process of putting a DIY ultrasonic system together and didn't want to drop hundreds of dollars on a vacuum machine, this one looks perfect for what I need.
My Squeaky Clean Vinyl RCM arrived yesterday. I ordered it with an extra pickup wand for a clean rinse step. I also picked up the cheapo Stinger WD2020 wet vac as listed in Nick's video. All in I was $240 CAD vs. $899 CAD + HST for a VPI 16.5 (i.e. less than 1/4 the cost).
I cleaned a couple of noisy dogs from my collection as a test run using MoFi Super Clean, then Disc Doctor Miracle, then a double rinse with distilled water. Both test records are playing close to NM! What a great and inexpensive vacuum solution!
Next step will be sourcing the US cleaner and likely the Vinyl Stack ULTRA Sonic Spin.
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The German LP3 has moved along it seems. http://www.ecker-lichtwerbung.homepage.t-online.de/lp3/index.html
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Are any of you guys cleaning your fluid so you can reuse it, with something like this?:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218276-my-version-ultrasonic-record-cleaner-13.html#post3215289
-Jim
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I filter my fluid a couple of times before using it for car windshield wash. Unlike the process you cited, I'm very low tech, using coffee filters and gravity.
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Are any of you guys cleaning your fluid so you can reuse it, with something like this?:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/218276-my-version-ultrasonic-record-cleaner-13.html#post3215289
-Jim
Yes and the filter system works great! Here's my setup:
I installed a pump and filter system similar to Rushton's. It was a little harder to source the exact parts in Canada so I ended up with:
Sicce Syncra 0.5 aquarium pump found at a local aquarium supply shop
10 feet of 3/8" Inside Diameter clear hose (really only needed 4 feet or so)
Pentek 158110 3/8-Inch 5-Inch Slim Line Clear Filter Housing from Amazon.ca
Pentek PD-1-934 Polypropylene Filter Cartridge, 9-7/8-Inch x 2-1/2-Inch, 1 Micron from Amazon.ca (big mistake see below)
3ea. 1/2" NPT x 3/8" barb connectors from OntarioBeerKegs.com
3ea. 3/8" NPT x 3/8" barb connectors from Home Depot
1ea. 3/8" female cap for sealing the drain end out of the filter when not in use
I learned a few things:
1. I taped the joints with teflon tape but still got some leakage. I ended up replacing the white teflon tape with pink teflon tape made for water joints and the leaks stopped.
2. The gasket on the filter housing MUST be greased prior to use, the damn thing leaked like a sieve without the grease. I had some white lithium grease normally used on my turntable bearing that did the trick.
3. The aquarium guy told me I could cut a 10" filter in half for my 5" filter housing, but that really didn't work well. I tried to cut it with a hacksaw and made a mess of it. I am using one of the halves temporarily but I ended up ordering the 5" filters from Amazon.ca (Hydronix SDC-25-0501 NSF Sediment Filter 2.5-Inch OD X 4 7/8-Inch Length, 1 Micron, Pack of 2). They have a 3-4 week lead time.
Once the 5" filters arrive I plan on filtering the water after every batch of records.
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I kind of like this guy's method of drying records after they come out of he US bath.
https://youtu.be/wFiZDiM6CHc?t=697
Simple, cheap and seems effective.
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I like simple. His setup using a drill and centripetal force should work well for those who don't have a vacuum setup. Regardless, the ultrasonic cleaning method is simply better than your standard VPI/Nitti Gritty type cleaners.
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The 6L ultrasonic cleaner just had a major price drop from one ebay seller!
Makes it even cheaper to get into ultrasonic cleaning, whether you DIY or buy one of the kits from https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/ (https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/)
$43.00!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6L-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Stainless-Steel-Industry-Heated-Heater-w-Timer/263266583267?hash=item3d4be942e3%3Ag%3AMUwAAOSwrjBZ5WtO&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true (https://www.ebay.com/itm/6L-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Stainless-Steel-Industry-Heated-Heater-w-Timer/263266583267?hash=item3d4be942e3%3Ag%3AMUwAAOSwrjBZ5WtO&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true)
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The 6L ultrasonic cleaner just had a major price drop from one ebay seller!
Makes it even cheaper to get into ultrasonic cleaning, whether you DIY or buy one of the kits from https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/ (https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/)
$43.00!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6L-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Stainless-Steel-Industry-Heated-Heater-w-Timer/263266583267?hash=item3d4be942e3%3Ag%3AMUwAAOSwrjBZ5WtO&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true (https://www.ebay.com/itm/6L-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Stainless-Steel-Industry-Heated-Heater-w-Timer/263266583267?hash=item3d4be942e3%3Ag%3AMUwAAOSwrjBZ5WtO&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true)
thats a good deal, mine was about $165 Canadian
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The 6L ultrasonic cleaner just had a major price drop from one ebay seller!
Makes it even cheaper to get into ultrasonic cleaning, whether you DIY or buy one of the kits from https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/ (https://thevinylstack.com/ultrasonic-cleaning/ultra-sonic-spin-record-cleaning-kit/)
$43.00!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6L-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Stainless-Steel-Industry-Heated-Heater-w-Timer/263266583267?hash=item3d4be942e3%3Ag%3AMUwAAOSwrjBZ5WtO&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true (https://www.ebay.com/itm/6L-Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Stainless-Steel-Industry-Heated-Heater-w-Timer/263266583267?hash=item3d4be942e3%3Ag%3AMUwAAOSwrjBZ5WtO&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true)
Must be a price mistake, the shipping alone from China must be close to that.
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That price does seem quite suspect since all comparable units seem to be $100 or more, and the seller has limited feedback none of which for any similar product.
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Yep. I checked out the guys sales history also. Nothing like it sold in his limited past. Helluva deal, but some risk. Funny how they always go together.
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And all of his "successful" sales were to the same guy at .99 each. No way!!!
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You would be covered by eBay's money back guarantee if you don't receive the item as described, but not sure who would be responsible for return shipping if required which could be significant going back to China.
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I thought I would post a quick update after living with my USC for about 6 months. To recap:
Squeaky Clean Vinyl RCM with extra pickup wand for clean rinse + cheapo shop vac
10L TruSonic tank
VinylStack ULTRA Sonic Spin kit
Filter assembly as listed in one of my earlier posts
USC fluid per Rushton's formula (5% IPA, 0.13% Triton X-100, 0.1% quat)
I pre-clean my records on the RCM vacuum machine using MoFi Super Wash, then Disc Doctor Miracle Wash
25 Minutes in USC at the lowest spin setting and water at 30C
Double distilled rinse using clean pickup wand
Air dry after final vacuum for 30 minutes
New MoFi sleeve
LESSONS LEARNED:
1. The aquarium pump ending up leaking too much and I replaced it with a Bayite BYT-7A015 with excellent results.
2. I think I warped a few records early on using 35C-40C water and drying on a dish rack. I reduced the temp and started using a spare Sonic Spin stack to dry the records on the Sonic Spin rack and haven't warped a record since switching.
3. I slowed down my second rinse vaccuum rotation to about 1 RPM and only use one complete revolution. This seem to do a better job drying the record and is resulting in fewer noise artifacts.
4. I'm rinsing my clean pickup wand frequently (OK, maybe obsessively)
My minty vinyl sounds spectacular after a good cleaning and my less-than-minty stuff sounds better although I still have a few problem records with noise. I'll likely experiment with the noisy ones to see if I can quiet them down.
Todd
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25 minutes in the ultrasonic?? That's way more than anyone else I've hear of. Mine get 2 or 3 depending on condition.
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25 minutes in the ultrasonic?? That's way more than anyone else I've hear of. Mine get 2 or 3 depending on condition.
I started with 10 minutes in the ultrasonic, but the batch timing wasn't working for me. The reason I settled on 25 minutes is that just happens to be the amount of time I need to listen to a clean side of vinyl and enjoy a beverage.
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I started with 10 minutes in the ultrasonic, but the batch timing wasn't working for me. The reason I settled on 25 minutes is that just happens to be the amount of time I need to listen to a clean side of vinyl and enjoy a beverage.
I like it. I may adopt your strategy. :thumb:
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We're gonna need a lot of beverages...
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I saw this device being promoted and was immediately transported back to this thread. Some potential here, methinks!
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sonic-soak-the-ultimate-ultrasonic-cleaning-tool-home-travel?utm_content=campaigns_one_column1_cta&utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bck-02222018hardware#/
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What happened to the mgalusha ultrasonic cleaner sale you guys were interested in?
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Hello to everyone and finally will be giving US cleaning a try :o
will be using a 10L tank and Vinyl stack for my setup and need a good starting point with the fluid.
trying to keep it simple with the fluids:
Distilled water
Isopropyl alcohol------how much per gallon?
Triton X100------------how many drops per gallon?
and a final rinse with DW and Vac dry?
Cheers
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Hello to everyone and finally will be giving US cleaning a try :o
will be using a 10L tank and Vinyl stack for my setup and need a good starting point with the fluid.
trying to keep it simple with the fluids:
Distilled water
Isopropyl alcohol------how much per gallon? about 8-10 oz
Triton X100------------how many drops per gallon? 6-10
and a final rinse with DW and Vac dry? absolutely, more important than the fluid mix
Cheers
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S Clark :thumb:
was trying to go thru some other forums and my head kept spinning with all the different "ingredients" people used with US cleaning.
just want a good starting point and keep it simple, some mentioned IPA (4-5%) and Triton-X (0.13%) for total amount
Cheers
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Hello, I'm on the lookout for a good, inexpensive record cleaning solution. Came across this on ebay -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrasonic-Vinyl-Record-Cleaner-Cleaning-Machine-Complete-System-w-Drying-Rack/202257975166?hash=item2f1783c77e:g:AEEAAOSwwARaph2o
Any thoughts on this? I would not be able to go completely DIY so thought this might be a good alternative.
Cheers!
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Hello, I'm on the lookout for a good, inexpensive record cleaning solution. Came across this on ebay -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrasonic-Vinyl-Record-Cleaner-Cleaning-Machine-Complete-System-w-Drying-Rack/202257975166?hash=item2f1783c77e:g:AEEAAOSwwARaph2o
Any thoughts on this? I would not be able to go completely DIY so thought this might be a good alternative.
Cheers!
Spacers look too narrow. Pretty sure min distance has been covered in this topic.
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I did the calculations when I made my spacers... about 3cm wide IIRC. I find that although I can clean 3 per cycle, I usually do only 1 or two. By the time I vacuum the first lp, the second one needs dipping to keep the solution from drying on the vinyl.
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.
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I've gotten waaayyyy behind in cleaning... I've probably got 150 lp's that I've bought that need cleaning. So I opened some wine and got started. Got a 12-15 done.
By the way, BE WARNED. :o :o :o :o These things are so much louder than you realize. Unfortunately I need hearing aids. While auditioning an "upgrade", one of the programs reached up to 50K Hz and re-interprets it down to frequencies I can hear--- and DAMN the ultrasonic cleaners are loud. Like, wear hearing protectors or leave the room when they are running, type loud. Seriously guys. These are probably too loud to safely be around when operating. My audiologist has no knowledge of the effects on ultrasonic on human hearing, but better safe than sorry.
Be careful with your hearing. You can't replace it well when it's gone.
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Cleaned a few for a buddy who uses a traditional vacuum system. He called to say how they were noticeably quieter.
Also, I wanted to plug an U.S. Cleaner that our member Rollo is now carrying. Finally commercial cleaners are reaching reasonable prices. You can still DIY cheaper, but it's not 10X cheaper anymore.
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Also, I wanted to plug an U.S. Cleaner that our member Rollo is now carrying. Finally commercial cleaners are reaching reasonable prices. You can still DIY cheaper, but it's not 10X cheaper anymore.
Which one?
Don't leave us in the dark...
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I've gotten waaayyyy behind in cleaning... I've probably got 150 lp's that I've bought that need cleaning. So I opened some wine and got started. Got a 12-15 done.
By the way, BE WARNED. :o :o :o :o These things are so much louder than you realize. Unfortunately I need hearing aids. While auditioning an "upgrade", one of the programs reached up to 50K Hz and re-interprets it down to frequencies I can hear--- and DAMN the ultrasonic cleaners are loud. Like, wear hearing protectors or leave the room when they are running, type loud. Seriously guys. These are probably too loud to safely be around when operating. My audiologist has no knowledge of the effects on ultrasonic on human hearing, but better safe than sorry.
Be careful with your hearing. You can't replace it well when it's gone.
What?
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Which one?
Don't leave us in the dark...
Kirmuss Audio at just under $800. I know, I can DIY for under $200, but it's ugly, and and you have to fiddle with it. If you are using a $500 vacuum unit, $800 for an ultrasonic is a much better buy. And Charles is one of the good guys, so buy from him if you decide to get one.
https://www.kirmussaudio.com/
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What?
T.B. no kidding around on this one. If you use an U.S. cleaner, use hearing protection. I can't spare any more frequencies lost to noise damage. I spent too many years being muzzle blasted while quail hunting with my brother... paying the price now.
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T.B. no kidding around on this one. If you use an U.S. cleaner, use hearing protection. I can't spare any more frequencies lost to noise damage. I spent too many years being muzzle blasted while quail hunting with my brother... paying the price now.
Oh duh...
It is the same one I recommended on this post -
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157133.0 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157133.0)
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Oh duh...
It is the same one I recommended on this post -
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157133.0 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157133.0)
Simoon, you beat me to the recommendation on this one. Yep, it's the same one. Still, buy it from Charles, tell him you saw it on AC, and ask him for a member discount... it can't hurt.
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Here's where I landed for my US machine...
Remove 51.50 ml of water from a gallon of distilled water, and replace with...
Hepastat 256 - 2.00 ml
Triton X - 2.25 ml
97% Iso - 47.25 ml
EDTA - 1 gram
This is 1/4th concentration of a scrub-n-rinse cleaning solution.
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Hey guys, I'm getting back into vinyl....which is the correct Amazon model (40khz) to order?
-Jim
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ultrasonic+cleaner+6+liter&ref=nb_sb_noss
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This looks like the basic Chinese unit that many of us are using. At $129 it's a cheap price. Don't know if the others are more durable, but mine has been working for a couple of years with no issues.
https://www.amazon.com/Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Commercial-Jewelry-Digital/dp/B07597C6Z1/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1539146365&sr=8-4&keywords=ultrasonic+cleaner+6+liter
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Not relative to DIY.....but since I started this thread I figure I can abuse it.... :icon_twisted:
https://www.kirmussaudio.com/?fbclid=IwAR07jwLTAepL8U776KGDatUTGo0CqSKgtLHtWOOG82WQsWvqskGoYYISNCU
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For the record (pardon the pun) I've gone back to 100% distilled water in my US machine. I may experiment with additives, but even the concentration below was leaving reside on my LPs. I'd like to add just enough Hepastat 256 to keep my machine funk-free. I may experiment with that.
Here's where I landed for my US machine...
Remove 51.50 ml of water from a gallon of distilled water, and replace with...
Hepastat 256 - 2.00 ml
Triton X - 2.25 ml
97% Iso - 47.25 ml
EDTA - 1 gram
This is 1/4th concentration of a scrub-n-rinse cleaning solution.
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Not relative to DIY.....but since I started this thread I figure I can abuse it.... :icon_twisted:
https://www.kirmussaudio.com/?fbclid=IwAR07jwLTAepL8U776KGDatUTGo0CqSKgtLHtWOOG82WQsWvqskGoYYISNCU
Look back a half dozen post and you'll see this being talked about. But it give me a chance to pitch our member Rollo (Charles) who sells these and will give a small discount to members here. :thumb:
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What are folks using for drying? Vacuum or fan?
I bought a 3M 963E air ionizer a while back that I'm thinking about using for drying purposes.
-Jim
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I like vacuum. That way particulates in the solution are removed. If you dry, they are deposited in the groove. I use a basic Nitty Gritty that I already had.
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I like vacuum. That way particulates in the solution are removed. If you dry, they are deposited in the groove. I use a basic Nitty Gritty that I already had.
Yes, removing the liquid+particulates in solution with a vacuum RCM is absolutely necessary ... unless you have added a pump & 1 micron filter setup to your US tank! :) The filter removes the crap in solution - so it no longer is deposited in the grooves. Which means you have to only get them dry, somehow.
Some people air-dry them in a dishwashing rack; I think this allows dust to settle on them - so I use the Dryer Cube from ultrasonicrecords.com for this (with a filter on the fan's air input hole).
Andy