AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Headphone Mania => Topic started by: adydula on 14 Sep 2019, 12:33 pm
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Ok Christmas is a few months away and I am thinking of getting a new set of headphones!
Having the Beyer T1's, and Senn HD 600's I am familiar with their house sound and have gone thru a dozen other headphones over the years.
Audeze, Audio Technica , Grado etc..
So I really like the sound of the 600's but at times the T1's really shine for me....
So I am leaning towards the 800s at the time....
Any opinions out there?
Of course Black friday is coming and a good sale could influence my decision!
Alex
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Alex, if you haven't tried them yet you should also put Mr. Speakers Ether 2 to the front of the list to audition, the HD600 was one of my favorites too, and could finally relax knowing that something could finally live up to the over all balance and involving character of the HD600. I ultimately choose the Aeon flow open because they are 90% of the performance at a steal of a price point but, you really need to give them a try with a decent amp pairing.
Sam
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Interesting question. After looking into this a bit, if it were me, I would choose the Focal Clear set. It seems that he majority of folks who have listened to both preferred the Focal.
Having said that, don't think you can go wrong either way.
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2 different sounds, but both great. I own both. The 800's are very open sounding and fast, but lack body and low end grunt. At times the sound stage is a little too large sounding. The Focal's are very dynamic, but have more body. I find them very musical, where as the 800's are more clinical. For my taste the Focal's win every time, but they do need a good amp match to sound their best.
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Interesting question. After looking into this a bit, if it were me, I would choose the Focal Clear set. It seems that he majority of folks who have listened to both preferred the Focal.
Funny, that’s not what I found.
Personally I’d go for the bigger more spacious presentation.
Here’s a review comparing the two head on... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=au5QDPEGAQU (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=au5QDPEGAQU)
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What I am afraid is once I pick one my brain will tell me illogically I screwed up and got the wrong ones for me!!
Ha!!!
LMAO!
Anyhow...The bass on the 600's for me is not boomy or light ....its just right so I think the bass on the 800s would not make me unhappy...
Having a great soundstage to me means more...and the Clears just will never have that attribute...
Sounds like I have made a decison...well maybe yes, and maybe no....
I did watch the video Wind Chaser referenced and I think I am in agreement with his analysis...
Decisions, decisions....
Alex
Still seveal months away!
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I auditioned the HD800s a while ago and did not like them at all. My impression was very similar to Santacor's, the Senns were clinical and not a lot of fun to listen to. I think I was using the HD650 at the time I listened to the 800s. I also had a pair of the T1s for a short while and found them a little clinical as well.
Never heard the Focals.
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Hi timind....
Wow I have had my Beyers for three years pretty much since they came out...and I would never call them clinical at all....
Its interesting on how we all hear thihngs differently and have different perspectives....this is good!
Depending on who you talke to about this stuff you have to make sure your on the same page for sure.
So what do you consider a really great headphon in this price range....+/- $1500.
Alex
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A couple years ago a fellow A/C member sent me his T1s as a trial when ai was looking to replace my HD650s. My initial reaction when I put them on was wow, these are revealing things I never would hear with the Senns. I normally listen with headphones for 30-45 minutes before bedtime so I used them daily that way for nearly two weeks. I did not buy them because they became TOO much of a good thing during that time. For me, they became overly revealing which I guess I translate to clinical.
Although I had loved the HD650s for a good two years, that experience convinced me to look for something more revealing. I found a pair of Beyerdynamic DT-990s (premium, NOT pro version) to fit me perfectly. It's been more than two years with them with them and while I have tried a few other headphones, nothing has tempted me. I haven't listened to anything over $1K.
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The entire presentation of my 600 and 650 is more forward than the 800 S. I would call it a "row A" presentation, a characteristic that I found in both the Elear and Clear when I auditioned them in my system.
The 800 S has, for me, more of a "row M" presentation. This more graceful delivery "draws me in", where I experience truer timbre and superb micro detail, top to bottom (Just a couple of its advantages). I find this also is the case with the Utopia, another can that doesn't need to be pushy or forward to render incredible detail.
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The HD660 has been mentioned. FWIW Tyll gave it a 'meh' report in one of his last Innerfi reviews. As always, YMMV.
The Beyer Amiron Home is a great open can at a great price. Never plugged in my trusty 650's again after getting them +/- a year and a half ago.
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The HD660 has been mentioned. FWIW Tyll gave it a 'meh' report in one of his last Innerfi reviews. As always, YMMV.
The Beyer Amiron Home is a great open can at a great price. Never plugged in my trusty 650's again after getting them +/- a year and a half ago.
The Amiron gets good reviews from the various sites. It was one of the phones I was considering to mate with my Dynalo headphone amp.
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Its interesting on how we all hear thihngs differently and have different perspectives.....
From what I’ve read, much of the “hearing differently” and “different perspectives” phenomena can be traced back to the synergy, or lack there of between the cans and the amp. IMO these things are better understood as a system rather than separate entities.
Having said that I’d still go for the cans that deliver the bigger more spacious presentation and look for an amp the mates accordingly. Presentation is everything, that’s why some people can never entertain closed back cans. The less headphones sound like headphones, the better! :thumb:
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+1^
The amp used makes a world of difference. My evaluation criteria for phones goes detail, tone, bass, headstage. If there's mudding of detail I'm done, can't stand bright and hard treble, I needs ma bass head, and without a good soundstage I'm out.
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I think the amp used with the phones does make a huge difference. Since I picked up a Dynalo head amp from Mjolnir Audio. the Sony MDR Z7 cans sound like a completely different headphone (for the better). The cans now have a deeper and wider sound stage, there is better clarity with low level detail without sounding analytical.
I learned this lesson with Stax headphones, as most amps for Stax simply do not have sufficient power to drive them to their full potential. When you do finally hear Stax phones with a proper amp, it is very noticeable.
Seems the same lesson can be applied to dynamic cans as well. Guess that may be why one has to take headphone reviews with a grain of salt.
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The answer is easy - spend 15 minutes wearing each one - you will soon find one feels better, pick that one since you will use it more if it is a comfortable fit. In my world that is more important than sonic considerations when comparing two similarly-performing earphones.
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Good point Steven, comfort should be at the top of the list as well. I find both the 800's and the Focals to be very comfortable, with a slight not do the 800's.
I never use the 2 pairs of Audeze I own because they do something weird to my ear. They make my inner ear itchy and uncomfortable. I feel like it's something to do with the bass presentation, because at lower volumes I don't feel it as much.
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My budget has been established at $1500.
This is the max I can shell out on this end...
That said I am sitting here reading all your posts with a $25 dollar pair of Koss KPH30i's and listening to Jake Shimabukuru and Emmylou Harris and Mark Knopfler's All the Roadrunning and
wondering why I am going to spend $1500!! These little puppies are really stellar!!
So, back the search, I will as usual spend a hundred hours reading and wathcing review and posts, just like always....
I guess its half the fun...the hunt....
The first part was getting the sale in the budget, being retired it has to fit in with all the stuff we are obligated to do at this age!!
LOL!!
Life is good..
Alex
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This might be of interest: https://www.moon-audio.com/focal-clear-headphones.html
($500 "tradein")
Edit - looks like that price elsewhere as well :
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-hMgnuGAx4eF/p_091CLEAR/Focal-Clear.html
https://audio46.com/products/focal-clear-open-back-headphones
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Obviously comfort is a given. It is the first consideration. Nobody wants to wear anything uncomfortable.
But comfort, isn’t enough. Obviously we are very fussy about sound quality and presentation. I won’t sacrifice comfort for sound quality and or presentation, and I won’t sacrifice presentation for sound quality. The best sound quality is not a quality sound if it doesn’t include a great presentation in my opinion. :shake:
So without hearing either the Focal Clear or the HD800, knowing what I know my vote goes easily to the HD800. Then it’s just a matter of finding the best possible amp to maximize their full potential. However if some isn’t as picky about presentation, then there are countless options both open and closed back to choose from. But from what I understand, the HD800 are in a class by themselves when it comes to presentation. The biggest most spacious presentation wins for me
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JohnR ..
Thanks for that information, I actually saw that and read the fine print:
"Valid September 1st, 2019 through September 30th, 2019"
I live near Moon Audio in Cary, I guess I could run over there and talke to the man! (:>)
I am hoping the Black Friday event might shed some good discounts as well on the HD800s and others...
Alex
wind chaser...I and probably like you and others have been in this game for many, many years...but its always fun to discuss with
birds of the same feathers!
THere is an overwhelming consensus that the HD6XX and 8XX pair very very well with the Bottlehead Crack and Manline....which I have both here in house.
The exisiting HD 600 are magical with the lower cost Crack.....as well with the Schitt Vahalla 2.
So my leaning is towards the higher impedance cans here....the Focals I think are 55 ohms....so its not a great match with these amps then..
But...
I have several other really good SS amps that would do the trick....
choices..
Alex
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I live near Moon Audio in Cary, I guess I could run over there and talke to the man! (:>)
Maybe you can listen to the headphones there?
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Obviously comfort is a given. It is the first consideration. Nobody wants to wear anything uncomfortable.
But comfort, isn’t enough. Obviously we are very fussy about sound quality and presentation. I won’t sacrifice comfort for sound quality and or presentation, and I won’t sacrifice presentation for sound quality. The best sound quality is not a quality sound if it doesn’t include a great presentation in my opinion. :shake:
So without hearing either the Focal Clear or the HD800, knowing what I know my vote goes easily to the HD800. Then it’s just a matter of finding the best possible amp to maximize their full potential. However if some isn’t as picky about presentation, then there are countless options both open and closed back to choose from. But from what I understand, the HD800 are in a class by themselves when it comes to presentation. The biggest most spacious presentation wins for me
They image big, but they are also unbearably bright, IME. So there's no real substitute for trying things oneself, which is true of headphones even more than anything else, except maybe for speakers. Case in point, others don't find the 800's too bright and absolutely love them Personally I couldn't listen to them for more than about half an hour, great soundstage or not.
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How many amps did you try with them? Source material? Do you fear / have an aversion to Eq? :D
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I have never been over there but its about 14.1 miles and 22 min away according to google maps!
Good idea....I will give them a call and see what happens...
Alex
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Hi Alex,
I see your on the market for new Cans, as you know I’ve been through my own experiences the last few months.
Part of the fun for me is the chase as I try to purchase preowned gear for a fair price in excellent condition. If your
patient enough, something always comes along.. Of course, preowned is not for everybody.
I find a pair of headphones has to be comfortable first followed closely by sound quality. It’s a personal choice so it
comes down to getting exactly what you want out of the new cans.. For me, I decided to purchase what I wanted to
hear in my home with my gear. It’s not exactly the most cost effective way but I had some money stashed from when I sold
my audio system so I decided to go for the gold ring.. lol
I purchased the Sennheiser HD-800S headphones weeks ago and have been using them with a Darkvoice tube amp
with very good results.. I also use the Beyer’s T1.2’s with the same amp. Both headphone sound wonderful but the
differences between the two for me are, the Senn’s have a more spacious sound then the T1’s and they are more
comfortable but the Senn’s are a tad loose on my noggin were the Beyer’s have just the right amount of clamping
force. I have large Italian ears and the Senn’s ear cups don’t even touch them. Besides all the hype, that’s the main
reason I wanted to try them. I’m glad I did..
I also recently purchased the HiFiman Ananda’s which are also very comfortable on my head maybe even more then
the Senn’s. I’ve been wanting to upgrade the 400i’s for awhile so I picked them up recently on sale on the HiFiman
web store. I’m using them with an older Graham Slee Solo SS headphone amp, their still breaking in but already
sound better to me then the 400i’s. The most comfortable Can’s I ever owned was the AKG Q701’s, at times, I didn’t
even know I was wearing them.. The only problem was they were a little bass shy for me. I like to hear tight and
controlled bass. It doesn’t necessarily have to be very deep.
I find once you get into the upper stratosphere in price, detail comes along with it and for me it is a double edge
sword, meaning.. Recordings that sound decent before all of a sudden might sound like crap with more resolving headphones
but if the music is recorded well given the right amp and dac combo, you will be rewarded like never before..
Yep, price can certainly sway my decision one way or the other but I alway do my best to get exactly what I’m looking
for. I’m actually in the market right now for a new solid state amp.. I’m thinking about an amp from Violectric. They
don’t turn up on the used market to often but I’m on the hunt.
I hope you enjoy your hunt and your new headphones which ever you decide.. Keep us posted, I always enjoy reading
what you have to say.
That said I am sitting here reading all your posts with a $25 dollar pair of Koss KPH30i's and listening to
Jake Shimabukuru and Emmylou Harris and Mark Knopfler's All the Roadrunning andwondering why I am going to spend
$1500!! These little puppies are really stellar!!
Well Alex, we don't need $1500 headphones to listen to our favorite tune's but it sure is nice. lol
Jerry
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Jerry, thanks for the nice comments!
Since I was asked to play facilitator I have tried to wake up the members and get some increased traffic in this circle...its pretty quiet compared to many other audio sites for sure.
But its not about quantity more so quality and making new friends and "honestly" sharing your experiences good and bad.
I actually feel the same ways about the AKG701's I had 2 pair over the past years, and felt they were bass light but eveything else was pretty good here.
Buying used is fine here....but never had the patience to wait for a good deal for the item I was looking for.....been lucky catching good discounts over time for the stuff
I have purchased.
The Vioelectric name has a great reputation.
How do the Anandas sound in cmparison to the HD800s and T1's you have...the Anandas are on sale for $849.
Alex
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I had a Violectric amp years ago. There was nothing memorable about it, but it's a workhorse solid state amp for sure. I enjoyed it for the few months I had it but moved on. If you can get one for a good price it's worth checking it out.
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I kinda agree, robust and well engineered but somehow uninteresting. I think times are a changing.
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Since I was asked to play facilitator I have tried to wake up the members and get some increased traffic in this circle...its pretty quiet compared to many other audio sites for sure.
Alex, don’t worry about that, you are doing a great job! :thumb:
Just because people aren’t posting doesn’t mean they aren’t reading and being influenced by what’s going on here. Case in point, I just ordered those cheap Koss Wonder Cans thanks to this circle ....and I would imagine many others, including many non members have done so too. :thumb:
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Yes, And due to all the talk about the Focal Clears, I am definitely interested in a nice slightly used pair of Focal Utopia's. :green:
I've already got a pair of HD800S's!
Go for it!
Gene
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Listening right now with the T1's plugged into the Vahalla 2.....just a nice wonderful, warm sound to me, I am thinking that the Clears would be much like
this sound, based on the comments I have read...so if thats the case I dont want another set of similar cans.
Even though the bass seems abit light, I hate boomy....and any real warmth at the low end.
I favor soundstage, articulation, openess, accuracy and clarity...and then go hunting for those really great mastered recordings...I dont like the idea
of buying stuff to make things sound different but realize their is magic in certain pairings for sure...
When I use the HD600 after after a few minutes of burn in.....ny head gets straight and it becomes a great experienc. Then back the T1's and its a hey
look what your missing, the warmth, musicality etc....hmmm.
Then start swapping in and out amps, tubes its a real circus at times...
I have a really nice high end amp, that I like, but find I enjoy two of the lower cost amps more so than the high dollar one....
So one of the fears is spending $1500 and not really hearing or getting the delta in performance one would think.
That said there are a ton of comments that the bass on the 800s is just fine...and the soundstage is indeed one of the best....
hmmm
Alex
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Goosepond!!
You have a 85mm F1.2L !!!!!
Drooling here...
:>)
Alex
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Hi Alex,
Uhhh, what!!!
Never mind. I forgot what I had in my photo gallery! :thumb:
Gene
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Yes, And due to all the talk about the Focal Clears, I am definitely interested in a nice slightly used pair of Focal Utopia's. :green:
I've already got a pair of HD800S's!
Go for it!
Gene
If you get the Utopia cans, by all means, let us know what you think!
I'm getting a pair of Focal Elears to see if I like the house sound of Focal.
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Listening right now with the T1's plugged into the Vahalla 2.....just a nice wonderful, warm sound to me, I am thinking that the Clears would be much like
this sound, based on the comments I have read...so if thats the case I dont want another set of similar cans.
Hm, I don't think the Clears are anything like the T1s... although they were a few years apart and everything else is different. You really ought to go and have a listen to them.... JMHO :D
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John I agree, I should go listen to them.
At Moon you have to call for an appointment, its not a real store front. Its packed away in a small commercial area, along side of many small
pricate companies selling there stuff...
Also I hate to go ther and listen then buy somewhere else because I can save a few hundred bucks...
The HD800's are $1699 + Sales Tax, online I can get them for $1444 +/- so my frugal mind is telling me $255 delta is a bit pricey for a listening session?
Its one of those things like trying on sports shoes in a retail store then buying on line because of lower price...then there is massdrop where you state
we can get stuff for less than mortgage like prices!!
Thats our system here in the states...
At least if I buy from a Amazon, etc I can return them if I dont like them, I guess I could do this for both sets and send one back...
Ethical?
Alex
:D
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At least if I buy from a Amazon, etc I can return them if I dont like them, I guess I could do this for both sets and send one back...
Ethical?
Alex
:D
Ethical? As long as you state the honest reason you're returning them, what would be unethical? Amazon offers the option, so go for it.
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Amazon is a good idea. If you are going to spend that much money on headphones, you’ll want to put them to the test in the comfort of your own home for at least a few days with as many different amps as possible. You could always order both the 800 and Clear cans on your credit card and return one (or both) and continue exploring other options...
In the end if you choose to save a few $$ by buying used, that’s your decision. :thumb:
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JohnR,
Its your fault!
I called over to a local Audio Advice store....2 miles from me, and auditioned the Focal Clears via a $20,000 Mark Levinson player...listened to Patricia Barbers "Verses' and some Dire Straits....OMG good.
The Clears are very well made, very comfortable, and they sound very, very nice.
The sale is on "still" its a send in a set of cans to upgrade and you get $500 off. deal.
The guys in NYC, will just honor the $999 price.
So here I am thinking..
Alex
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With the price break, the Focal Clear option should be a easy choice. The more I look into Focal headphones, the more I think they are an excellent value and option for purchase.
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Ok. decision made and they are on order!
Alex
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sorry, maybe a dumb question but is it $500 off the $999 or is the $999 including the $500 off? thanks.
never mind, just answered my own questions. $999 is including the trade in.
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The sale is basically for the month of Sept as I read the fine print...
Alex
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They?
You ordered both?
Is there a break in disc for headphones? If so you might need it
@10hr/day it takes 30 days just to get 300 hours of breakin per set.
Good luck and keep us informed. Gotta ask with all the other phones at Audio Advice
did you try the planners or other brand dynamics out. I was afraid to try the more
expensive cause don't want to know what I'm missing right now. Ended up w/ HE400S.
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Ok. decision made and they are on order!
Alex
I think you made a excellent choice. Will be keen to get your impressions with your setup. Price always has to figure into one's decision buying options.
I found a new pair of Elears for 50% off, so I went this option. I felt this is a good option for the price/performance ratio. I'll report on the impressions in the Dynalo thread.
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dflee,
You noticed the wording "they"....ha! I did that on purpose.
Well I listened to the Clears (again thanks John!)...for about 20 minutes, and asked to listen to the Utopias...they said they had them but they could
not find them. The sales guy favored Audeze LCD4's.
I listened to Patricia Barbers Verses CD, I have several of her cd's but this one has eluded me. One word: GET IT (well 2 words) an excellent disc.
The first cut I thought I was listening to real speakers....a wonderful overall musical sensation...I knew right then that I had to get these.
The deal for $500 off was'nt mentioned at the place I tried them, so I went shopping and found a place that sold them for $999, no shipping or other charges!
They should be here in a few days.
I will post my more detailed impressions after that....
The build quality is excellent, comfort is excellent, but the sound is really excellent....kind of glad they did not find the Utopias....$4000 is getting a bit crazy here.
$1499 or $1699 is starting to get me abit startled....but the urge for perfection is strong!
So when the $999 deal came into focus and after a listen today it was a no brainer....deal done.
Maybe some day I will run into the HD800s and maybe wish I had gone this route, but I dont feel any gosh I am getting a lousy set of headphones with the Clears.
Hunt is over for now....
:>)
Alex
This had nothing to do with my purchase decision, as a matter of fact I just watched this for the first time!
Scroll down and watch the video and Tyll get all mushy about these cans!!
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/focal-clear-over-ear-open-headphones-page-2
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Congrats on the purchase. Hope they meet your expectations.
I listened to PB's Modern Cool the other night. A wonderful set of songs with better than wonderful songs. I've never listened to any of her albums through headphones. I need to try that.
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Thanks!
It will be neat to re-listen to all my material and try all the amps....being a 55 ohm can the Bottlehead Crack is out of the picture...
The Mainline has a low impedance setting, and a 4 pin balanced XLR...
Which brings up the nice selection of (3) cables that Focal sends along with the heaphones and case!
I did not like the idea that Senn replaced the 4 pin xlr with a 4.4mm TRSS jack...for some reason I cant get my head around that decision, I guess small music players are
more attractive than a large desktop amp..
Guess I will put this deal on headphone deals its only for another week...
Alex