MAG-LEV Audio | The First Levitating Turntable

OzarkTom · « **on:** 14 Oct 2016, 04:09 am »

On Kickstarter now, stun your friends.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/245727224/mag-lev-audio-the-first-levitating-turntable

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 04:40 am »

Depending on how well the arm is isolated, it should sound good. Great find. Almost makes me want a turntable again.

Rocket Ronny

Tone Depth · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 04:41 am »

Don't you want to keep magnetic fields away from the cartridge?

neobop · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 01:41 pm »

The FIRST ???

It's irritating having some Kickstarter companies making false claims. These clowns didn't invent anything. Using magnetic repulsion to support the platter or spindle has been around for awhile.
neo

Don_S · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 14 Oct 2016, 01:41 pm

The FIRST ???

It's irritating having some Kickstarter companies making false claims. These clowns didn't invent anything. Using magnetic repulsion to support the platter or spindle has been around for awhile.
neo

neo, Did the earlier models not work out? I have never read about them or seen them at the shows I attended. I see several challenges mag-levitation must overcome and wonder if the challenges have not been solved yet.

Minn Mark · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 04:16 pm »

I would sure worry about porpoising of the platter. The mechanical isolation seems not as well thought out as clear audio and others who already use mag-lev (sic), let alone electrical and magnetic isolation issues. And the arm seems run-of-the-mill. I'll stick with a tried and true design (VPI and SOTA for me), but you early adopters go ahead and spark the economy. Will be interesting to read some reviews, assuming production comes to fruition.

Mark

charmerci · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 04:27 pm »

Well, that's pretty cool.

Shouldn't they mag-lev the arm base also?

blownrx7 · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 04:29 pm »

I don't understand why they would group an entry level arm and entry level cartridge with a base that is priced, in total, WAY ABOVE entry level.
Am I missing something?

Mike B. · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 04:46 pm »

Nice gadget. I am not convinced on it being a better way to go. Motors and platter suspensions have come a long way, and they are just part of the total.

neobop · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 07:41 pm »

This is currently used on some high end tables - mostly with heavy platters. It relieves the main bearing and can greatly increase PRaT, especially with belt drive. But this technology is not exclusive to platters and bearings. Ever hear of magnetic anti-skate?

The US patents for this (in turntables) goes back to 1984, but I think some examples were earlier. Luxman and Micro Seiki used magnetic repulsion and I believe these were earlier. Today there are quite a few examples including ClearAudio, Pro-Ject, Walker, and I think Brinkman and Platine Verdier. Forsell and Rockport were included.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/clearaudio-performance-turntable/

https://www.audiomeister.co.uk/product/platine-verdier-turntable/

Obviously, the reason the Mag Lev platter is so high in the air, is because the platter is too light for the magnetic field. I would be concerned with the field interfering with the cartridge. This is just a gimmick on a budget table. Money would be better spent on a high quality arm and overall execution.
neo

undertow · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Oct 2016, 07:53 pm »

This is the super gimmick of a lifetime! But it did take some engineering to get the "Ohh, and ahhh" of the features on it. However, they equate to jack squat for superior turntable sound.

Might as well just buy the new Technics turntable with direct servo for $4,000 bucks that just came out claiming it's superiority to the previous version sold for 40 years around $600 last retail before they shut the line down in 2011 or whatever.

neobop · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Oct 2016, 09:24 pm »

Quote from: undertow on 14 Oct 2016, 07:53 pm

This is the super gimmick of a lifetime! But it did take some engineering to get the "Ohh, and ahhh" of the features on it. However, they equate to jack squat for superior turntable sound.

Might as well just buy the new Technics turntable with direct servo for $4,000 bucks that just came out claiming it's superiority to the previous version sold for 40 years around $600 last retail before they shut the line down in 2011 or whatever.

I suspect you're right about the Mag Lev. On the other hand, this is a legitimate approach and we have yet to hear about the SQ. I think the table will sell despite objections. It looks cool and looks count. Even if it only sits on a shelf, it's a conversation piece.

From what I've read, your comparison to the new 1200 is way off base. Owners are comparing it to tables like VIP Prime, and saying it sounds more like an SP-10 II than an older 1200.
neo

sebrof · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Oct 2016, 09:30 pm »

You guys do realize that it's on audio forums like this that anyone looks at something like that table and even thinks about SQ. It ain't about SQ. If SQ is even mentioned in the ads for that thing it's an afterthought, and the demographic it's aimed at won't even care.
If it looks like that and sounds good, then all the better. But it ain't about SQ. That thing is freakin' cool.

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Oct 2016, 09:33 pm »

Quote from: sebrof on 15 Oct 2016, 09:30 pm

You guys do realize that it's on audio forums like this that anyone looks at something like that table and even thinks about SQ. It ain't about SQ. If SQ is even mentioned in the ads for that thing it's an afterthought, and the demographic it's aimed at won't even care.
If it looks like that and sounds good, then all the better. But it ain't about SQ. That thing is freakin' cool.

Indeed Sebrof, good points.

Best,
Anand.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Oct 2016, 12:55 am »

I am with Rocket on this one, it makes me want to buy TT.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Oct 2016, 06:49 am »

A video of a public rollout in Ljubljana, Slovenia:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/245727224/mag-lev-audio-the-first-levitating-turntable/posts/1707051

I wonder if part of 'the secret' is the use of Bismuth, either in the platter or in the base. I imagine a revolving array either of Bismuth or magnets hidden below the surface in the base.

What does surprise me is the extreme height at which the platter is floating. I'm guessing some powerful magnets (neodymium, not electro~) are involved.

To my knowledge, this has never been marketed before—previous magnetic suspension platters of which I am aware have had conventional spindles and spindle bearings and belt drives and magnets supplied only the vertical isolation. Not much value in that.

neobop · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Oct 2016, 01:16 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 16 Oct 2016, 06:49 am

What does surprise me is the extreme height at which the platter is floating. I'm guessing some powerful magnets (neodymium, not electro~) are involved.

To my knowledge, this has never been marketed before—previous magnetic suspension platters of which I am aware have had conventional spindles and spindle bearings and belt drives and magnets supplied only the vertical isolation. Not much value in that.

There's a good reason for that. Most previous designs were used to relieve the main bearing of some of the extreme weight of a massive platter. There's no free lunch with this design.
Vertical isolation? The magnetic repulsion has compliance like a spring. This is like a suspension under the platter, but there is none under the arm. This introduces a host of problems, not the least of which is resonance, and what about air movement and sound pressure waves hitting the air in-between?

It does look cool though.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/does-the-magnetic-levitating-platter-make-all-other-designs-superfluous

undertow · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Oct 2016, 01:12 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 15 Oct 2016, 09:24 pm

I suspect you're right about the Mag Lev. On the other hand, this is a legitimate approach and we have yet to hear about the SQ. I think the table will sell despite objections. It looks cool and looks count. Even if it only sits on a shelf, it's a conversation piece.

From what I've read, your comparison to the new 1200 is way off base. Owners are comparing it to tables like VIP Prime, and saying it sounds more like an SP-10 II than an older 1200.
neo

Honestly not sure what comparison I made? I believe all I said was they did not pack another 4000 in features using the same table and updating the "Direct drive Doughnut" basically. By the way the 1200 is a pretty good table for the right price. The new 4000 version... well it is not a 4000 dollar upgrade was my point! Much more can be done, and made out of that as you see fit, but point was the design is not the way to go if your looking at serious 4000 dollar tables, and neither is this Mag lev non-sense.

By the way I do agree the technology "Works"... But what I am saying is it's completely unnecessary, and causes more problems than it solves in the world of analog acoustics. Anybody that has serious money in any turntable, and has gone thru several variations I am sure agree for the fact these companies including Technics trying to ride the wave are more or less "Gimmicky" as most of it already exists in one form or another, and even better for the money.

But don't get me wrong I am sure when they put a display of these Mag-Lev deals like 5 in a row all floating in a window across the street from the nearest BMW dealer in Germany somewhere the guy walking around getting his tuneup will notice and buy! I don't know why the words "Sharper Image" or "Brookstone" keeps coming to mind!

neobop · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Oct 2016, 02:26 pm »

Quote from: undertow on 17 Oct 2016, 01:12 pm

Honestly not sure what comparison I made? I believe all I said was they did not pack another 4000 in features using the same table and updating the "Direct drive Doughnut" basically. By the way the 1200 is a pretty good table for the right price. The new 4000 version... well it is not a 4000 dollar upgrade was my point! Much more can be done, and made out of that as you see fit, but point was the design is not the way to go if your looking at serious 4000 dollar tables, and neither is this Mag lev non-sense.

By the way I do agree the technology "Works"... But what I am saying is it's completely unnecessary, and causes more problems than it solves in the world of analog acoustics. Anybody that has serious money in any turntable, and has gone thru several variations I am sure agree for the fact these companies including technics trying to ride the wave are more or less "Gimmicky" as most of it already exists in one form or another, and even better for the money.

But don't get me wrong I am sure when they put a display of these Mag lev deals like 5 in a row all floating in a window across the street from the nearest BMW dealer in Germany somewhere the guy walking around getting his tuneup will notice and buy! I don't know why the words "Sharper Image" keeps coming to mind!

Sharper Image

"Might as well just buy the new Technics turntable with direct servo for $4,000 bucks that just came out claiming it's superiority to the previous version sold for 40 years around $600 last retail before they shut the line down in 2011 or whatever."

Technics discontinued the 1200 in 2010 because it was no longer economically feasible. I think the top version was $700 or $800 list. Lets say $700.
The wholesale price to dealers would be about $420 + shipping. Obviously, they would have had to increase the wholesale price so much, people would no longer buy it (in their estimation).

I think it's unfortunate that Technics used the same old platform for this new table, but I guess they already had tooling. Every aspect of the table is dramatically improved from the coreless motor to the aluminum top plate, tonearm, etc. etc.
You're living in the past. Get over it. Users put it up against other $4K tables. It smokes the old 1200.
neo

undertow · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Oct 2016, 02:45 pm »

"You're living in the past. Get over it. "

Okay.. If you say so! Not sure what offended you, but I am only 30 by the way so I was not really in the "Past" you speak of

My first table at 13 was in fact a Technics, but it was an SL something or another "Automatic" if I remember?

And actually funny thing is I simply argued after owning several of these units, not sure why you believe the "new" Technics with inferior tonearm and the rest of it are so superior especially at that price, but hey whatever.

Also, my new thing [or opinion] is I think any table that comes in over $3000 and has NO speed controller to adjust for both 33 and 45 independently is pretty much not doing the job a high end table needs to. For the money we are talking about here you can do far better with a 1000 dollar table, a 1500 dollar arm [Serious arm not Technics], and a 800 dollar origin live speed kit, and a good 500 dollar cartridge to easily make up for anything Technics supposedly re-invented on the 1200 sorry. It's just a fact.

Anyway this thread was not about that, it was simply a public service announcement about some new Kickstarter gimmick table so I will bow out, and those that are looking to save money, and build something worth the money will look elsewhere anyway.

No big deal.